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Kirwan on Fitz


#bman

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It's a reasonable article by a guy who's familiar with negotiations. He mentions that rumor is the Jets are offering Fitz Chase Daniel's money which is high backup money or 21 for 3 with about 12 guaranteed. Again even he says "it's reported" which doesn't mean it's true by a long shot. 

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its crystal clear that pat kirwan doesn't know sh*t about football. where is he getting these stats from?? top 10 in many qb categories my foot. 26 dropped passes?lol. all I saw was super human catch after super human catch from shot putted passes by fitz's broken, non nfl arm. pat, lets talk about real stats like "near interceptions" and "almost incompletions" and my personal favorite "games that don't count because of inferior opponents and mild weather". you know, the stuff that really matters

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23 minutes ago, ylekram said:

its crystal clear that pat kirwan doesn't know sh*t about football. where is he getting these stats from?? top 10 in many qb categories my foot. 26 dropped passes?lol. all I saw was super human catch after super human catch from shot putted passes by fitz's broken, non nfl arm. pat, lets talk about real stats like "near interceptions" and "almost incompletions" and my personal favorite "games that don't count because of inferior opponents and mild weather". you know, the stuff that really matters

Don't forget not making the playoffs. Sanchez was much better because he made the playoffs. No way Fitz should get paid more than Mark. 

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56 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Another Fitz thread there is already 1 started Ryan Fitzpatrick MERGED

 

That's all we have right now, Fitz Threads (where we discuss Geno too) and Geno Threads (where we discuss Fitz too).

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30 minutes ago, ylekram said:

its crystal clear that pat kirwan doesn't know sh*t about football. where is he getting these stats from?? top 10 in many qb categories my foot. 26 dropped passes?lol. all I saw was super human catch after super human catch from shot putted passes by fitz's broken, non nfl arm. pat, lets talk about real stats like "near interceptions" and "almost incompletions" and my personal favorite "games that don't count because of inferior opponents and mild weather". you know, the stuff that really matters

LOL

Always love it when an internet poster makes these kinds of statements about a guy who has been in the NFL for over 20 years, working for Arizona, Tampa Bay, and was the Director of player administration for non other then the NY Jets.  He has also written a book..

Actually the article was pretty good, and IMO fair.

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3 minutes ago, flgreen said:

LOL

Always love it when an internet poster makes these kinds of statements about a guy who has been in the NFL for over 20 years, working for Arizona, Tampa Bay, and was the Director of player administration for non other then the NY Jets.  He has also written a book..

Actually the article was pretty good, and IMO fair.

Seems the posters sarcasm may have overloaded your sarcasm meter.

That or you didn't read his whole post and just spammed reply.

One or the other.

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4 minutes ago, flgreen said:

LOL

Always love it when an internet poster makes these kinds of statements about a guy who has been in the NFL for over 20 years, working for Arizona, Tampa Bay, and was the Director of player administration for non other then the NY Jets.  He has also written a book..

Actually the article was pretty good, and IMO fair.

me thinks you missed the sarcasm in my post:D

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3 hours ago, #bman said:

This is a respectable position iif you're making a case to pay Fitz. It wouldnt convince me though. 

Fitz  went 1-6 against teams who scored 21 or more points with the jets which means that he lost 85% of those games. 

For his career, he's 8-50 in those cames lifetime and in the last four years he's 2-24 in those games, losing 92% of the time over the past 4 seasons leading up to be a Jet. 

This is Ryan Fitzpatrick in a nutshell.

 

He can talk about all those exotic stats until he's blue in the face. However, this is a straight forward fact that his career historically will support. The Jets face 5 playoff teams and a Bills team that swept them in their first 6 weeks to start the season. If Fitz is the QB and if any of those playoff teams score 21 or more points the Jets have an 8% chance of winning the game based on Fitz last 4 years, or a 15% chance of winning the game based on his entire career including last season. And that's against any team that scores those points. Now take into consideration that we're playing the seahawks, steelers, cardinals, chiefs and bengals. All teams (outside of the chiefs) known for their offensive ability to put up points. 

The Jets based on Fitz own career stats could start the season 1-5 heading into their match up against the Ravens. 

 

I dont care how much Nick Foles or Sam Bradford are being paid. Everyone outside of those organizations who follows football knew that those contracts were stupid to begin with, so why should the Jets use that as some sort of measuring stick when it was idiotic in the first place? 

Those deals were so idiotic that not only did those teams swap their QB's then pay them crazy money, but those same teams both mortgaged their future in order to pick #1 and #2 in the draft this year to draft.....quarterbacks! 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, flgreen said:

LOL

Always love it when an internet poster makes these kinds of statements about a guy who has been in the NFL for over 20 years, working for Arizona, Tampa Bay, and was the Director of player administration for non other then the NY Jets.  He has also written a book..

Actually the article was pretty good, and IMO fair.

This is a stupid post. Doesnt matter if you're on the internet or what this guy's credentials were. John Idzik has credentials and people talk smack about Idzik to this very day, and I havent seen you coming to Idziks defense. 

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11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This is a respectable position iif you're making a case to pay Fitz. It wouldnt convince me though. 

Fitz  went 1-6 against teams who scored 21 or more points with the jets which means that he lost 85% of those games. 

For his career, he's 8-50 in those cames lifetime and in the last four years he's 2-24 in those games, losing 92% of the time over the past 4 seasons leading up to be a Jet. 

This is Ryan Fitzpatrick in a nutshell.

 

He can talk about all those exotic stats until he's blue in the face. However, this is a straight forward fact that his career historically will support. The Jets face 5 playoff teams and a Bills team that swept them in their first 6 weeks to start the season. If Fitz is the QB and if any of those playoff teams score 21 or more points the Jets have an 8% chance of winning the game based on Fitz last 4 years, or a 15% chance of winning the game based on his entire career including last season. And that's against any team that scores those points. Now take into consideration that we're playing the seahawks, steelers, cardinals, chiefs and bengals. All teams (outside of the chiefs) known for their offensive ability to put up points. 

The Jets based on Fitz own career stats could start the season 1-5 heading into their match up against the Ravens. 

 

I dont care how much Nick Foles or Sam Bradford are being paid. Everyone outside of those organizations who follows football knew that those contracts were stupid to begin with, so why should the Jets use that as some sort of measuring stick when it was idiotic in the first place? 

Those deals were so idiotic that not only did those teams swap their QB's then pay them crazy money, but those same teams both mortgaged their future in order to pick #1 and #2 in the draft this year to draft.....quarterbacks! 

 

 

 

nope. fitz went 1-5 against teams that scored 21 points or more. fitz also went 9-0 against teams that scored 20 points or less

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36 minutes ago, ylekram said:

me thinks you missed the sarcasm in my post:D

Yours is my favorite post of the day, My favorite is "near interceptions." It's not easy to not be sarcastic when you're dealing with the absurd. Good job!?

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this article/interview is so flawed it's beyond comical.  I will cut and paste my thoughts from a different thread;

 

http://realfootballnetwork.com/2016/05/26/the-case-for-fitzpatrick/

He states Geno has a 4-10 record against the AFC east but that is incorrect, he is 4-7 as a starter against the AFC East including 3-3 his first year(same 3-3 record Fitz had this year w/ much more talent around him).  if he can't get the basics right how would I trust other things he says?

next he says Fitz had a 3-1 record against NE and Miami, while true Miami was a train wreck and 2 of those wins came against Miami and the lone win against NE they were disinterested so for Kirwin we throw out the 2 Buffalo games that decided our season and focus on 2 games w/ Miami:lol:

Next he says in 61 career games under gailey he has thrown 102 Tds and 69 INTs.  That's nice but he did lead the league in INTs one of those 4 seasons and want to know what his record is?  26-35, only been close to the playoffs one time and we know how that ended.

next he talks about TDs on 3rd downs, not sure how we can trust his #s when he gets many basic things wrong but assume it's correct, I'd imagine throwng the ball up for Marshall and decker would help any QB on 3rd down and what is funny about mentioning those 11 TD passes on 3rd downs he fails to mention SIX of his INTs came on 3rd downs.  I wonder why?

 

he was 9th in 4th qtr TD passes! he threw 8 of them, just spectacular!  but he threw 8 INTs too but no mention of that.let's look at the 4th qtr TDs:

week 2 at Indy: big play after he kept Indy in what should have been a blowout and I think Marshall gets most of the credit for this one:

20.gif

 

meaningless TD vs. Philly

2 yd TD in blowout vs. washington

TD pass vs. jax but again a great play by Marshall(gif wasn't working).

to decker vs. Buf- got us back in game, couldn't finish it though

3 yarder to Marshall in blowout vs. Miami

tying TD to Marshall at Giants, great play but he threw it up to his big WR who made the play.

3 yarder to decker at Dallas, big play

 

is this impressive?  now let's look at the 4th qtr INTs:

2 vs. Philly in what turned out to be a 1 score loss.

ended game at home vs. Buf(would have needed a miracle in that spot though so I don't blame him)

2 at Houston w/ plenty of time in one score loss

3 at Buf which cost us our season

 

this shows that the INts were worse than the TDs were good.

 

dropped passes happen, how many times did our receivers snatch bad throws which would have been incomplete or picked?  that stuff evends out so I don't buyt the dropp passes or dropped INTs stats.

 

he also said he had 53 passes of 20+ yds(not sure if accurate) but when you have playmakers catching and running that number is skewed and tells us he had more than Newton(who had no WRs), Ben who only started 11 games, Flacco who started 10 games, Matt Ryan(who cares?) and Matt Stafford(who cares?)

 

this was an awful argument by Kirwin and now I know why we had such a crappy franchise when he was a part of it.

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Peyton Manning won a SB last year. He was possibly the worst QB in the league last year. Fitz winning 10 games means nothing. Even his best stats rank him right in the middle. And it's not just 2015. Its everything from 2005 until 2015. 

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58 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Fitz  went 1-6 against teams who scored 21 or more points with the jets which means that he lost 85% of those games. 

For his career, he's 8-50 in those cames lifetime and in the last four years he's 2-24 in those games, losing 92% of the time over the past 4 seasons leading up to be a Jet. 

Phillip Rivers went 3-10 against teams who scored 21 or more points, meaning he lost 77% of those games.

Drew Brees went 4-9 against teams who scored 21 or more points.

Eli Manning went 3-9 against teams who scored 21 or more points.

Russell Wilson went 1-7 against teams who scored 21 or more points (including the playoffs).

Even Aaron Rodgers only went 3-4 in such games.

Most teams lose most of the games they play when their Defense allows 21 points or more.

It's things like this that make me question your analytical skills, as even a cursory glance at other QB's shows this isn't a valid criticism, and isn't even a specific reflection on the QB himself, but on the Defense (primarily) and the ability of the offense (as a whole) to score high numbers of points in a game (second) in which their defense is performing poorly.

A great example of how numbers, when willfully manipulative/dishonest intent is in play, and without context or detail, can be less than useless.

Quote

This is Ryan Fitzpatrick in a nutshell.

No, that's NFL QB's not named "Tom Brady" in a nutshell.

 

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Phillip Rivers went 3-10 against teams who scored 21 or more points, meaning he lost 77% of those games.

Drew Brees went 4-9 against teams who scored 21 or more points.

Eli Manning went 3-9 against teams who scored 21 or more points.

Russell Wilson went 1-7 against teams who scored 21 or more points (including the playoffs).

Even Aaron Rodgers only went 3-4 in such games.

Most teams lose most of the games they play when their Defense allows 21 points or more.

It's things like this that make me question your analytical skills, as even a cursory glance at other QB's shows this isn't a valid criticism, and isn't even a specific reflection on the QB himself, but on the Defense (primarily) and the ability of the offense (as a whole) to score high numbers of points in a game (second) in which their defense is performing poorly.

A great example of how numbers, when willfully manipulative/dishonest intent is in play, and without context or detail, can be less than useless.

No, that's NFL QB's not named "Tom Brady" in a nutshell.

 

Phillip RIvers, Drew Brees, and Eli manning also played with some of the worst defenses in the NFL, Brees played with one of the worst of all time.

Russell Wilson lost all of those games because of his o-line collapsing in crunch time, and he lost them all by 10 and under, including the Panthers game where he stormed back.

Aaron Rodgers lost games because he was missing his number 1 target, and Randall Cobb was playing hurt all year.

These elite quarterbacks lost those games for circumstances that weren't in their control, Fitzpatrick throwing interceptions giving the other teams short fields is his own fault.

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

I dont care how much Nick Foles or Sam Bradford are being paid. Everyone outside of those organizations who follows football knew that those contracts were stupid to begin with, so why should the Jets use that as some sort of measuring stick when it was idiotic in the first place? 

Those deals were so idiotic that not only did those teams swap their QB's then pay them crazy money, but those same teams both mortgaged their future in order to pick #1 and #2 in the draft this year to draft.....quarterbacks! 

1

 

the free market exists, whether we believe in it or not 

 

the stat crunching you do to justify not paying Fitz is based in truth. He's a bad starter but a starter nonetheless.  

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There is a fundamental problem with the whole "he's only mid pack or low twenties compared to other starters!" analysis.  Let's start with the fact that Smith, his real alternative at this point, was near the bottom or rock bottom compared to other starters, much worse in other words.  So there's that.

But in general it is problematic because there's only 32 NFL starting Qb's at any point, and they are starting presumably because the people behind them on the depth chart are worse.

Forgetting for a moment that we might disagree about who is on the list, but if the Jets had a chance to get a member of the top ten NFL Qb's now for a reasonable deal, who wouldn't want to do that?  Well, yeah Smith Fans, but I mean reasonable people - anyone would.

But the Jets are not in that position right now. Fitz is their best option. 

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52 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

These elite quarterbacks lost those games for circumstances that weren't in their control, Fitzpatrick throwing interceptions giving the other teams short fields is his own fault.

Prove it.  With numbers, not hot air.  Because I don't think you can.

Then, prove that Geno Smith in his two years was better at "not giving the opponent a short field" than Fitz was in 2015.

Because I don't think you can.

If you can't prove those two things, it's just what I said at the start, typical fan hyperbole.  I.e. Bullsh*t.

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Prove it.  With numbers, not hot air.  Because I don't think you can.

Then, prove that Geno Smith in his two years was better at "not giving the opponent a short field" than Fitz was in 2016.

If you can't prove those two things, it's just what I said at the start, typical fan hyperbole.

I don't recall him giving away too many short fields what I remember is him killing us w/ deep INTs when we had excellent FP.

 

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3 hours ago, ylekram said:

its crystal clear that pat kirwan doesn't know sh*t about football. where is he getting these stats from?? top 10 in many qb categories my foot. 26 dropped passes?lol. all I saw was super human catch after super human catch from shot putted passes by fitz's broken, non nfl arm. pat, lets talk about real stats like "near interceptions" and "almost incompletions" and my personal favorite "games that don't count because of inferior opponents and mild weather". you know, the stuff that really matters

Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller are unlistenable IMO... 

My radio is on Sirius NFL pretty much all day, except when those two patriots apologists get on the radio.  I honestly believe they get paid by Krafty every time they mention the name Patriots.  Jim Miller inserts Tom Brady and/or the Pats into every conversation regardless of whether it belongs there. 

These guys make their living pontificating on basic football knowledge and they are generally wrong. 

Rant over...

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Prove it.  With numbers, not hot air.  Because I don't think you can.

Then, prove that Geno Smith in his two years was better at "not giving the opponent a short field" than Fitz was in 2015.

Because I don't think you can.

If you can't prove those two things, it's just what I said at the start, typical fan hyperbole.  I.e. Bullsh*t.

The combination of the jets being 4th in 3 & out percentage plus the brutal ST play resulted in a lot of bad field position. Fortunately the defense was able to negate a lot of that with timely turnovers 

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