Let's have a serious discussion about Bowles

[Maxman]

30 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

We are not in rebuilding in mode.  We are in f-ing flame out mode.  And I'm sorry, Bowles has to show something in the next four games.  My guess is win Sunday and one of the remaining games against Miami, NE, or Buffalo.  He does that and he gives Woody enough reason to keep him on.  That's a tall order but it's not impossible.  I know there are so many people who are saying he deserves another year and "what is he supposed to do."  Well there is still time for him to save his job, so he can do that.....

I think that is fair. If they lose out that is definitely cause for re-evaluating the situation.

[Maxman]

31 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

We are not in rebuilding in mode.  We are in f-ing flame out mode.  And I'm sorry, Bowles has to show something in the next four games.  My guess is win Sunday and one of the remaining games against Miami, NE, or Buffalo.  He does that and he gives Woody enough reason to keep him on.  That's a tall order but it's not impossible.  I know there are so many people who are saying he deserves another year and "what is he supposed to do."  Well there is still time for him to save his job, so he can do that.....

I feel like we are rebuilding the wide receiver position with great success. The Oline is being rebult with some success. And they are rebuilding the linebackers but with less success.

But that is about it. Secondary and QB position are in shambles and the DLine (strength) is underperforming. It was mentioned earlier but I would totally support Karl Dunbar coming back to coach the DLine.

[Hael]

Don't really agree with the OP.  

Mistakes were made, but they were 'correct mistakes' that you would repeat if you had to do it over again.  

1) Most of this board disagrees with me, but bringing Fitz back made a great deal of sense.  For a team in transition, you want a veteran stopgap who is cheap and brings leadership qualities, as well as teaching abilities for the young qbs.  Guess what, Fitz was all those things.  12 million dollars is basically exactly what a bottom barrel starting qb is worth in the NFL FA and he has basically performed statistically about what his contract was worth.  If you want Brees level production, you pay double for a 1 year contract.

2) Teams in transition fail if you bring in bad apples or put them in leadership roles.  Geno would have been a disaster for the young players, even if he gave you cheaper essentially equivalent production too Fitz.

3) Much has been made of Bowles in game decision making.  I would say there are complexities that we aren't privy too and it's less than clear if he is right or wrong on many of his decisions..  I mean going for it on 4th and 2 is a lot easier if you are the Patriots than if you have Fitz and old Forte.

4) Diaagree about Revis.  His fall was easy to see coming, I mean I was very against his resigning.  Even when he was with the Patriots, you could see he had lost a step. It was obvious he was on the wrong side of his career arc and that typically cbs lose it pretty quickly once it begins.  It was a really bad contract to take, and that wasn't on Bowles.

5) communication issues are on the head coach, but I mean Skrine and Gilchrist have been in the same system for awhile now, and this stuff should be relatively obvious to older veterans anyway.  So I don't know what is going on there.

In any event, Bowles should stay at least another year or two.  Crappy teams fire head coaches too fast, and he hasn't even been able to really get the right types of players for his system.  Also, if we fire him, players like Lee are basically useless as they only work in specific systems that are built to use their strengths.

[Jetsbb]

The guy is a bad coach. What is so hard to get? He is really really awful. Why would you want to go into the season knowing no matter how well you draft or do in FA every game the team will be at a severe disadvantage. He doesn't know how to manage a game, he doesn't know how to make half time adjustments. Every game there are 3 or 4 what he calls "busts" where players have no clue what they're doing. Fitz admits he never talks to the head coach other than the occasional greeting, he doesn't get involved with the offense at all. The guys don't respect him he has no personality the team admits they are all together and happy no matter how much they lose cause Bowles doesn't hold them accountable.

 

But no lets keep this travesty bec of some perceived comparison to the Browns despite he kept Rex for 6 years, Herm for 5 etc. You jump ship when its obvious the coach is beyond the pale bad. ****

[Maxman]

16 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

The guy is a bad coach. What is so hard to get? He is really really awful. Why would you want to go into the season knowing no matter how well you draft or do in FA every game the team will be at a severe disadvantage. He doesn't know how to manage a game, he doesn't know how to make half time adjustments. Every game there are 3 or 4 what he calls "busts" where players have no clue what they're doing. Fitz admits he never talks to the head coach other than the occasional greeting, he doesn't get involved with the offense at all. The guys don't respect him he has no personality the team admits they are all together and happy no matter how much they lose cause Bowles doesn't hold them accountable.

 

But no lets keep this travesty bec of some perceived comparison to the Browns despite he kept Rex for 6 years, Herm for 5 etc. You jump ship when its obvious the coach is beyond the pale bad. ****

Last year I thought his half time adjustments were great. This year they are non-existent.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

The best thing that can be done in the off-season would be for woody to let Macc decide Bowles fate. If Macc decides to keep Bowles he has to put every player on the rosters fate in Bowles hands. Bowles needs to cut any player who doesn't show up in shape or who doesn't work to their potential in the preseason regardless of what we owe them and how it will affect our cap. We need to set an example and remind our staff that they aren't here to get free paychecks and that if they slack they will be unemployed. We also need a new defensive coordinator and probably new conditoning staff.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
 

If this was granted to Maccagnan, and if he has one functioning brain cell, he'd fire Bowles instantly before Woody changed his mind.

Maccagnan keeping Bowles could lead to him getting fired with Bowles after the 2017 season. On the other hand, replacing Bowles would buy the new HC (and by extension, Maccagnan himself) an absolute minimum 2 - and likely at least 3 - more seasons. By that point Maccagnan may be into contract extension time himself.

No chance he'd retain Bowles if given the opportunity to replace him in 2017.

[Maxman]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If this was granted to Maccagnan, and if he has one functioning brain cell, he'd fire Bowles instantly before Woody changed his mind.

Maccagnan keeping Bowles could lead to him getting fired with Bowles after the 2017 season. On the other hand, replacing Bowles would buy the new HC (and by extension, Maccagnan himself) an absolute minimum 2 - and likely at least 3 - more seasons. By that point Maccagnan may be into contract extension time himself.

No chance he'd retain Bowles if given the opportunity to replace him in 2017.

I disagree on this premise. I think a GM knows he gets to fire one coach and then he gets fired. So I think any GM would stretch things out as far as they could. Because that gives them job security. GMs make big money. Scouts don't. So if a GM can make that salary for an extra two years, they will definitely try to stretch it out.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Maxman said:

I disagree on this premise. I think a GM knows he gets to fire one coach and then he gets fired. So I think any GM would stretch things out as far as they could. Because that gives them job security. GMs make big money. Scouts don't. So if a GM can make that salary for an extra two years, they will definitely try to stretch it out.

I don't get how you're disagreeing. This is why I say he'd fire Bowles. It buys him an absolute minimum of two more years, and quite likely ≥3 more years. Before that 2-3 yrs is up, he may be in line for an extension (and GM contracts are all guaranteed).

Getting tied to another's HC hire... well, his predecessor saw how that panned out for him. He didn't even make it to year 3.

[Smashmouth]

I'm not sure this comes down to "just" a pros vs Cons . Bowles is making the same mistakes he made last year and he seems to have lost the team as some have mentioned. When you lose a team to the extent they showed on Monday night the problems go much deeper than just the pros and the cons. So what is it the players just don't like about Bowles ? That may be the biggest question

[Smashmouth]

I'm not sure this comes down to "just" a pros vs Cons . Bowles is making the same mistakes he made last year and he seems to have lost the team as some have mentioned. When you lose a team to the extent they showed on Monday night the problems go much deeper than just the pros and the cons. So what is it the players just don't like about Bowles ? That may be the biggest question

[BurnleyJet]

Todd Bowles, should be fired, you can be a coach of a bad team (poor roster) and lose every game.

Although I'd expect my coach to do things like:-

Have the Team prepared.

The Team is disciplined.  

Players are accountable.

Run a game plan.

Learn from your mistakes.

Able to make in game adjustments.

Have Balls.

The list goes on, I don't see any of these things. Once you lose the locker room it's over for me. None of these guys respect you, and that's a no, no. It's means if we give Bowles year 3, and things get rocky again, the team will do the same thing again, and mail it in.

You think teams mail it in on BB, Parcells? - No way they know their the Boss and they won't even dare even think that way.

Bowles is out of his League. They have got worse weekly the effort, the mistakes. The 41 point beating caps that off.

I fear we actually may win in SF since they are in a bigger mess than the Jets.

So Jetsy to ruin our draft position. I'm hoping they just play all the young guys. It's the only thing we have left. I can't believe we are even debating keeping this goon in 2017.

 

[Maxman]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't get how you're disagreeing. This is why I say he'd fire Bowles. It buys him an absolute minimum of two more years, and quite likely ≥3 more years. Before that 2-3 yrs is up, he may be in line for an extension (and GM contracts are all guaranteed).

Getting tied to another's HC hire... well, his predecessor saw how that panned out for him. He didn't even make it to year 3.

If Macc fired Bowles in January 2017 and hired another coach that lasted three years, that would mean Macc would be fired after the 2019 season.

If Macc told Woody, let's give Bowles a shot there are some things to be concerned with but let's see if he improves. Let's say next year he doesn't improve. Macc says okay Woody Bowles has to go. That means Bowles gets fired in January 2018.  He hires a new coach who lasts three years. That means Macc gets fired after the 2020 season.

Totally theoretical. And I certainly hope our GM would never think along those lines. Just saying the longer a GM dragged a coach out, the longer it would be before he was on the clock himself, so to speak.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, BurnleyJet said:

Todd Bowles, should be fired, you can be a coach of a bad team (poor roster) and lose every game.

Although I'd expect my coach to do things like:-

Have the Team prepared.

The Team is disciplined.  

Players are accountable.

Run a game plan.

Learn from your mistakes.

Able to make in game adjustments.

Have Balls.

The list goes on, I don't see any of these things. Once you lose the locker room it's over for me. None of these guys respect you, and that's a no, no. It's means if we give Bowles year 3, and things get rocky again, the team will do the same thing again, and mail it in.

You think teams mail it in on BB, Parcells? - No way they know their the Boss and they won't even dare even think that way.

Bowles is out of his League. They have got worse weekly the effort, the mistakes. The 41 point beating caps that off.

I fear we actually may win in SF since they are in a bigger mess than the Jets.

So Jetsy to ruin our draft position. I'm hoping they just play all the young guys. It's the only thing we have left. I can't believe we are even debating keeping this goon in 2017.

 

Whats funny is being a HC is just like being a QB, sure you know the game, its not rocket science, they ALL know the damn game. Can you lead men can you get them to buy into your system ? Does your system work ? In the heat of battle its got to be hard for a HC to adapt on the fly and see what needs to be done to change what your team is doing on the fly Bowles has shown no ability to do this and his team always seems unprepared. The Buffalo game last year was a perfect example of a team that came out flat and unprepared. 

[BurnleyJet]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

Whats funny is being a HC is just like being a QB, sure you know the game, its not rocket science, they ALL know the damn game. Can you lead men can you get them to buy into your system ? Does your system work ? In the heat of battle its got to be hard for a HC to adapt on the fly and see what needs to be done to change what your team is doing on the fly Bowles has shown no ability to do this and his team always seems unprepared. The Buffalo game last year was a perfect example of a team that came out flat and unprepared. 

Agreed there is no fire, it's a contact sport, you have to have fire. Bowles makes Rex look like Lombardi.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Maxman said:

If Macc fired Bowles in January 2017 and hired another coach that lasted three years, that would mean Macc would be fired after the 2019 season.

If Macc told Woody, let's give Bowles a shot there are some things to be concerned with but let's see if he improves. Let's say next year he doesn't improve. Macc says okay Woody Bowles has to go. That means Bowles gets fired in January 2018.  He hires a new coach who lasts three years. That means Macc gets fired after the 2020 season.

Totally theoretical. And I certainly hope our GM would never think along those lines. Just saying the longer a GM dragged a coach out, the longer it would be before he was on the clock himself, so to speak.

Ah, but you're assuming Maccagnan wouldn't be tossed along with Bowles after 2017. If the team is doing poorly after another season, especially after what looks to be another offseason of big/new spending, I don't know that Maccagnan gets another 3 by hiring his own HC. 

A GM that undergoes a "competitive rebuild" is one who takes no following season's job security for granted. If he could get a sure 3 more years after 2016, instead of only a sure 1 more year, I think he'd grab it or risk lifelong regret.

[Maxman]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ah, but you're assuming Maccagnan wouldn't be tossed along with Bowles after 2017. If the team is doing poorly after another season, especially after what looks to be another offseason of big/new spending, I don't know that Maccagnan gets another 3 by hiring his own HC. 

A GM that undergoes a "competitive rebuild" is one who takes no following season's job security for granted. If he could get a sure 3 more years after 2016, instead of only a sure 1 more year, I think he'd grab it or risk lifelong regret.

Yes I was assuming that. I thought the assumption (theoretical) was that Macc got to decide the fate for Bowles. I was just saying if that was the case, the GM would have a vested interested in stretching out a coach.

This applies more to Tannenbaum after he fired Mangini. And less to Bowles and Macc. Because they were hired together and don't report to each other in any way.

[Kleckineau]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

DA Bears.

Certainly not out of the question. 

Harbaugh isnt leaving very soon so Fox, a pretty good coach, has time to turn it around but yeah Chi could happen as long as the owner can pony up.

[LIJetsFan]

1.  You have to assume that during the hiring and interview process it was clear to the powers that be that Todd Bowles knew nothing about how to conduct an offense and that he would chose to remain ignorant.  So hiring Bowles was based on his defensive prowess.  So in his case a failing defense = a failing HC.  

2. Did the HC have enough talent on the roster to field a good defense?  Did the HC show the ability to adapt to the available talent with his defence?  Did he show the ability to adapt as a DC, and has he lost that ability now as a HC?  Is he in over his head or was he a bad hire or was the 2016 roster to blame for the failure of his defence?  

3. Mac may have short changed Bowles on defensive talent on the 2016 roster but by just exactly how much?  By this much?                        

[Jetsbb]

BTW The Jets will be going through a massive change in the roster cutting major veteran players with bloated contracts. Mangold, Harris, Revis, Marshal, Giacomini, Clady, Richardson could all be gone. Knowing that if they don't fire Bowles this year he would definitely be fired the next if he doesn't make the playoffs wouldn't it make sense to hire a new coach now if the roster is going to go through such a major turnover? Not to mention they have a ton of draft picks as well with 3 or 4 comp picks.

[Rangers9]

You just can't keep firing coaches and GMs every two years esp after following a good season. It's important to see if he can get these guys to show up and play the rest of the season. Obviously he didn't last Monday. It was a no show. I saw Bowles interviewed on Jets Open Mic a few days ago and he looked like a beaten man. He didn't go off the grid the way Idzik did two years ago at his presser but he looked down and almost out. So let's see what he can do the last 4 games starting tomorrow. If the team mails it in for the rest of the season then you could have a point. But he's respected around the league and has payed his dues. 

[JustInFudge]

The biggest issue I have, is he's not good at his job.  He wasn't good last year either.

My fear, how much further behind the 8ball is this team going to be by retaining these boobs?  And if you're only rational is look at the Browns, well, I'm not sure that's great logic.

We are currently in a situation where things are getting worse and worse by the minute, what makes you think anything is going to change?

[AFJF]

17 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You just can't keep firing coaches and GMs every two years esp after following a good season. It's important to see if he can get these guys to show up and play the rest of the season. Obviously he didn't last Monday. It was a no show. I saw Bowles interviewed on Jets Open Mic a few days ago and he looked like a beaten man. He didn't go off the grid the way Idzik did two years ago at his presser but he looked down and almost out. So let's see what he can do the last 4 games starting tomorrow. If the team mails it in for the rest of the season then you could have a point. But he's respected around the league and has payed his dues. 

This is something Woody has been doing every two years, is it?

[Rangers9]

Well he did two years ago. Rex got six years. Mangini 3 years. Herm got five seasons,. Groh one season (he resigned). So if he fires Bowles it means 3 head coaches in 4 seasons. 

[SAR I]

17 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

"Todd Bowles lost his locker room and none of the players respect him."

Is there proof of this statement? I don't even think I've read that from any agenda driven media types, or heard that from a player, or from anyone associated with the team.

I would rather have an agenda driven media type tell us a fabrication rather than what we can see with our own eyes.  Just a few of the things that have gone on this year that makes it obvious that the locker room is adrift and Bowles is not in control:

Geno Smith's media boycott.

Geno Smith's pouting for the cameras.

Geno Smith's passive-aggressive anti-Jets Tweets.

Sheldon Richardson's battle with Brandon Marshall in September.

Sheldon Richardson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Sheldon Richardson's missing multiple team meetings.

Mo Wilkerson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Mo Wilkerson's media boycott and mouse-like sneaking out of the locker room.

Mo Wilkerson's missing team meetings and his own birthday party.

Pepper Johnson DL assistant refusing to speak to the media and then giving one word answers.

Ridiculous amount of personal fouls and overall lack of discipline.

Defenders showboating after routine tackles when trailing by 40 points.

Darrelle Revis pronouncement that he's "old", "slow", "tired", ready to become a safety.

No single defensive player stepping up to take the role of team leader.

The utter no-show humiliation of the defense against the Colts on National TV.

The view that the locker room was determining who our starting quarterback would be instead of the head coach.

The failure to inform his starting quarterback that he is being replaced for the last 4 weeks of the season before telling the media and then having a low level assistant do the dirty work seconds before he took the podium.

That's a Rex Ryanesque laundry list of team dysfunction right there.  You can see it in th eyes of Revis, Richardson, Wilkerson, Smith, and others.  They have checked out, they can't even put on a good show to help their head coach, they don't like him, they don't respect him, they've quit on him.

SAR I

 

 

 

[flgreen]

First I think Woody needs to step back and completely turn the football aspect of the team over to Macc in a traditional GM relationship to a team.  In other words Bowles fate should be in Macc's hands.

Bowles fate should depend, not so much on W's and L's over the last 4 games, (the team stinks) but rather on if he can get the locker room back under control, and get the players to understand he is in charge, not them, and no matter who they are, they are playing for their jobs.

Second I think the team needs to be ripped down the way it should have been in year one.  Yes, that means that Macc gets 3 more years as GM.  Bowles is on the hot seat right now.

[flgreen]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I would rather have an agenda driven media type tell us a fabrication rather than what we can see with our own eyes.  Just a few of the things that have gone on this year that makes it obvious that the locker room is adrift and Bowles is not in control:

Geno Smith's media boycott.

Geno Smith's pouting for the cameras.

Geno Smith's passive-aggressive anti-Jets Tweets.

Sheldon Richardson's battle with Brandon Marshall in September.

Sheldon Richardson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Sheldon Richardson's missing multiple team meetings.

Mo Wilkerson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Mo Wilkerson's media boycott and mouse-like sneaking out of the locker room.

Mo Wilkerson's missing team meetings and his own birthday party.

Pepper Johnson DL assistant refusing to speak to the media and then giving one word answers.

Ridiculous amount of personal fouls and overall lack of discipline.

Defenders showboating after routine tackles when trailing by 40 points.

Darrelle Revis pronouncement that he's "old", "slow", "tired", ready to become a safety.

No single defensive player stepping up to take the role of team leader.

The utter no-show humiliation of the defense against the Colts on National TV.

The view that the locker room was determining who our starting quarterback would be instead of the head coach.

The failure to inform his starting quarterback that he is being replaced for the last 4 weeks of the season before telling the media and then having a low level assistant do the dirty work seconds before he took the podium.

That's a Rex Ryanesque laundry list of team dysfunction right there.  You can see it in th eyes of Revis, Richardson, Wilkerson, Smith, and others.  They have checked out, they can't even put on a good show to help their head coach, they don't like him, they don't respect him, they've quit on him.

SAR I

 

 

 

Can't say I agree with Sar on a lot of things, but this laundry list is pretty damming.  May not agree with all the points, but they are all at least arguable.  

I've really done a 180 on this over the last few weeks, not quite ready to drop the trap door on Bowles right now, but he must have an impact on the team over the last month  to keep his job if I were in charge. 

[rangerous]

19 hours ago, SAR I said:

Good post, but I think you missed the biggest issue of all:

Cons

• He has lost control of the locker room and it is clear that there is no discipline, no self-respect, and no passion for the game of football or the New York Jets as an organization from the players on the roster.  From nasty tweets to media boycott's to admission of being "old" to DL coaches giving one word answers on media day, to no-show performances on MNF, the list is endless, there clearly is a dysfunctional and toxic environment in Florham Park that players and assistants want to demonstrate against and that's on the head coach.

We can live with the rest of the pro's and con's you list above.  The pro's can be built upon, the con's can improve over time.  But if 52 guys don't respect you now they never will.

SAR I

the whole point on the locker room is dead on.  that should be the main reason to keep or launch him.  but let's be clear here.  playing hard for 60 minutes isn't the same thing as playing smart.  i don't think any jet player (except for maybe richardson and the whole team on monday) is trying to play.  what they aren't doing is playing smart and making really stupid decisions by getting penalties or turning the ball over or playing out of position.  if bowles still has the locker room then he needs to figure out how to get the players to play as a team. and for that he will probably have to launch and replace one or more coaches.

[rangerous]

39 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I would rather have an agenda driven media type tell us a fabrication rather than what we can see with our own eyes.  Just a few of the things that have gone on this year that makes it obvious that the locker room is adrift and Bowles is not in control:

Geno Smith's media boycott.

Geno Smith's pouting for the cameras.

Geno Smith's passive-aggressive anti-Jets Tweets.

Sheldon Richardson's battle with Brandon Marshall in September.

Sheldon Richardson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Sheldon Richardson's missing multiple team meetings.

Mo Wilkerson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Mo Wilkerson's media boycott and mouse-like sneaking out of the locker room.

Mo Wilkerson's missing team meetings and his own birthday party.

Pepper Johnson DL assistant refusing to speak to the media and then giving one word answers.

Ridiculous amount of personal fouls and overall lack of discipline.

Defenders showboating after routine tackles when trailing by 40 points.

Darrelle Revis pronouncement that he's "old", "slow", "tired", ready to become a safety.

No single defensive player stepping up to take the role of team leader.

The utter no-show humiliation of the defense against the Colts on National TV.

The view that the locker room was determining who our starting quarterback would be instead of the head coach.

The failure to inform his starting quarterback that he is being replaced for the last 4 weeks of the season before telling the media and then having a low level assistant do the dirty work seconds before he took the podium.

That's a Rex Ryanesque laundry list of team dysfunction right there.  You can see it in th eyes of Revis, Richardson, Wilkerson, Smith, and others.  They have checked out, they can't even put on a good show to help their head coach, they don't like him, they don't respect him, they've quit on him.

SAR I

 

 

 

pretty damning list but it also looks like it's populated by a handful of players.  last season, bowles launched coples in mid season and things settled down.  this season he has richardson who is a known along with wilk and maybe revis.  bowles is somewhat handcuffed while dealing with these players.  how can he sit down or cut guys making 15m per season?  and even sheldon at 7m is tough.  you can't sit everyone down.  and while i'm thinking it about it, why not ship wilk off to an nfc team for a box of footballs?  if his contract isn't motivation enough to play then tough s**t.  the bad apples just don't affect their play but that of everyone around.

in regard to geno, fitz deserves a ton of heat for his attitude for holding out so long.  if he was truly for the team he should've signed way back in the spring and participated in all of the practices.  instead geno was being lead on.  he has a right to be peeved even if he really hasn't shown a whole lot of leadership.

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

This is something Woody has been doing every two years, is it?

Actually no.

 

Herm - 5 years

Mangini - 3 years

Rex - 6 years

 

And why does it even matter?  Based on that logic we shouldn't have replaced Kotite with Parcells.

 

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well he did two years ago. Rex got six years. Mangini 3 years. Herm got five seasons,. Groh one season (he resigned). So if he fires Bowles it means 3 head coaches in 4 seasons. 

What it will mean is that Woody will have done it one time.  Reaching back to the previous coach and including the new one to make it sound like a terribly unstable "3 coaches in 4 years" is just silly.

Every single coach he has ever had, has been given at least 3 years.  Firing one coach after two seasons does not put them on par with a team that has fired 6 of their last 8 coaches in 2 years or less.

[Rangers9]

44 minutes ago, AFJF said:

What it will mean is that Woody will have done it one time.  Reaching back to the previous coach and including the new one to make it sound like a terribly unstable "3 coaches in 4 years" is just silly.

Every single coach he has ever had, has been given at least 3 years.  Firing one coach after two seasons does not put them on par with a team that has fired 6 of their last 8 coaches in 2 years or less.

Two times in two years to me means there is instability. So I'm hoping that Woody doesn't fire anyone this year. 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Two times in two years to me means there is instability. So I'm hoping that Woody doesn't fire anyone this year. 

No it doesn't.  It means you kept one guy for six years, after firing him, you realized the next guy was worse so you didn't waste any time and moved on. 

As somebody else already said, by this logic, Kotite should have been given another year here.

 

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

I would rather have an agenda driven media type tell us a fabrication rather than what we can see with our own eyes.  Just a few of the things that have gone on this year that makes it obvious that the locker room is adrift and Bowles is not in control:
Geno Smith's media boycott.
Geno Smith's pouting for the cameras.
Geno Smith's passive-aggressive anti-Jets Tweets.
Sheldon Richardson's battle with Brandon Marshall in September.
Sheldon Richardson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.
Sheldon Richardson's missing multiple team meetings.
Mo Wilkerson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.
Mo Wilkerson's media boycott and mouse-like sneaking out of the locker room.
Mo Wilkerson's missing team meetings and his own birthday party.
Pepper Johnson DL assistant refusing to speak to the media and then giving one word answers.
Ridiculous amount of personal fouls and overall lack of discipline.
Defenders showboating after routine tackles when trailing by 40 points.
Darrelle Revis pronouncement that he's "old", "slow", "tired", ready to become a safety.
No single defensive player stepping up to take the role of team leader.
The utter no-show humiliation of the defense against the Colts on National TV.
The view that the locker room was determining who our starting quarterback would be instead of the head coach.
The failure to inform his starting quarterback that he is being replaced for the last 4 weeks of the season before telling the media and then having a low level assistant do the dirty work seconds before he took the podium.
That's a Rex Ryanesque laundry list of team dysfunction right there.  You can see it in th eyes of Revis, Richardson, Wilkerson, Smith, and others.  They have checked out, they can't even put on a good show to help their head coach, they don't like him, they don't respect him, they've quit on him.
SAR I
 
 
 

Great post and accurate summary of why Maccagnan needs to be able to hire the HC of his choice and why that HC needs to report to Maccagnan.

[RESNewYork]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

I would rather have an agenda driven media type tell us a fabrication rather than what we can see with our own eyes.  Just a few of the things that have gone on this year that makes it obvious that the locker room is adrift and Bowles is not in control:

Geno Smith's media boycott.

Geno Smith's pouting for the cameras.

Geno Smith's passive-aggressive anti-Jets Tweets.

Sheldon Richardson's battle with Brandon Marshall in September.

Sheldon Richardson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Sheldon Richardson's missing multiple team meetings.

Mo Wilkerson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact.

Mo Wilkerson's media boycott and mouse-like sneaking out of the locker room.

Mo Wilkerson's missing team meetings and his own birthday party.

Pepper Johnson DL assistant refusing to speak to the media and then giving one word answers.

Ridiculous amount of personal fouls and overall lack of discipline.

Defenders showboating after routine tackles when trailing by 40 points.

Darrelle Revis pronouncement that he's "old", "slow", "tired", ready to become a safety.

No single defensive player stepping up to take the role of team leader.

The utter no-show humiliation of the defense against the Colts on National TV.

The view that the locker room was determining who our starting quarterback would be instead of the head coach.

The failure to inform his starting quarterback that he is being replaced for the last 4 weeks of the season before telling the media and then having a low level assistant do the dirty work seconds before he took the podium.

That's a Rex Ryanesque laundry list of team dysfunction right there.  You can see it in th eyes of Revis, Richardson, Wilkerson, Smith, and others.  They have checked out, they can't even put on a good show to help their head coach, they don't like him, they don't respect him, they've quit on him.

SAR I

 

 

 

nice work. only a passionate fan would put the time in for a post like this. fans see this list and feel that's a bad list. I see this and think every coach in the NFL is probably dealing with the same issues and probably more. And most of these seem like personnel problems and not a problem from Bowles coaching.

Geno Smith's media boycott. - Geno is not the only player in the NFL who boycotts the media.

Geno Smith's pouting for the cameras. - Geno is not the only player in the NFL who pouts for the camera. I've seen worst, like teammates who are on camera fighting on the sidelines.

Geno Smith's passive-aggressive anti-Jets Tweets. - NFL players tweet much worst than passive aggressive tweets

Sheldon Richardson's battle with Brandon Marshall in September. - You mean 2 teammates firing at each other at halftime of a game? Like Peppers and Clinton Dix having to be separated on the sideline during a game?

Sheldon Richardson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact. - players underperforming and getting benched in the NFL. Like last season's MVP? 

Sheldon Richardson's missing multiple team meetings. - cover below

Mo Wilkerson's aloofness and multiple benchings having no impact. - Mo Wilk coming off a leg injury and not performing to his previous level. long long list of players who needed another season to get back to their original level

Mo Wilkerson's media boycott and mouse-like sneaking out of the locker room. - Didn't he just speak to the media? Mo is not the only player who doesn't talk to the media.

Mo Wilkerson's missing team meetings and his own birthday party. - cover below

Pepper Johnson DL assistant refusing to speak to the media and then giving one word answers. - no answer. Maybe this is just a NY Jet problem

Ridiculous amount of personal fouls and overall lack of discipline. - NY Jets are the 5th lowest penalized team in the NFL. 

Defenders showboating after routine tackles when trailing by 40 points. - See this all the time in the NFL. but yes I remember seeing this in the colt game and it bothered me too.

Darrelle Revis pronouncement that he's "old", "slow", "tired", ready to become a safety. - I think Revis said was closer to as I get older, I will have to consider a move to safety. But why is this a Bowles problem?

No single defensive player stepping up to take the role of team leader. - Not sure, but like most of these complaints, this seems like a player problem, not a bowles coaching problem

The utter no-show humiliation of the defense against the Colts on National TV. - this happens to every team. 

The view that the locker room was determining who our starting quarterback would be instead of the head coach. - Do you really believe the players decided? Didn't Bowles declare Fitz the starter early in the last off-season? 

The failure to inform his starting quarterback that he is being replaced for the last 4 weeks of the season before telling the media and then having a low level assistant do the dirty work seconds before he took the podium. - You're right. 

That's a Rex Ryanesque laundry list of team dysfunction right there.  You can see it in th eyes of Revis, Richardson, Wilkerson, Smith, and others.  They have checked out, they can't even put on a good show to help their head coach, they don't like him, they don't respect him, they've quit on him.

 

So just a few thoughts. No one would have found out about Mo and Richardson being late to meetings. We all found out because Bowles decided to punish them by sitting them a quarter of a game which made the whole world know. Bowles made it public. I'm sure every team in the NFL deals with players like this. Bowles punished two of the best players on the jets. They had to deal with embarrassment. Is that a message to the team? 

Before the last 2 head coaches, I didn't really care. But I was praying for Rex when he was hired. I was praying for Bowles and he was hired. 

I've said this before. Not putting Rex down, but is it possible that he was really easy on his players and let them do what they want. Then Bowles comes in and tries to change that culture. Maybe it takes more than 2 seasons. 

What Bowles has accomplished in his career, his experience, I don't see another candidate out there that gets me excited. I say give Bowles another season to prove it.

[Paradis]

Maybe this has been covered, maybe not...

People tend to complain about his "in-game management" or lack of adjustment... 

It's bigger than that. 

This entire coaching staff, starting with the HC -- do NOT game plan at all. Period. At least not effectively. We did NOT show up on Sunday with gameplans that play to our strengths and the opponents' weaknesses. We get into this "test the waters" business with our schemes, and end up scrambling. Caught in a match of reactionary play calling. 

That right there, is the biggest sign of incompetence. Far more than any roster decisions and lockeroom attitude problem.

 

Bowles does not put his team in a position to win games. Everything else is a function of this inherent problem.