Would you pay a Kings ransom for TOP QB Prospect next year?

[FTL Jet Fan]

I think it depends on the prospect and where we are picking. I would not give up a Kings ransom, but would definitely trade up a few spots to get a prospect that the right staff feels is a must have. We are so devoid of talent we can't afford to give up a whole draft and a next years first. I am of the belief once you get your guy you can build around him but it depends on the coaching staff and I don't have the faith in the staff to do it.

 

 

[BrickTamland]

A bunch more recent 1st round picks would have won or at least played in Super Bowls if not for Brady. I think the fact that he was been to what 7 Super Bowls or something makes the view completely skewed. 

If you take him out of the picture then guys like Peyton, Matt Ryan, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and many more would have been or won to more super bowls and completely change the way the data looks 

[MDL_JET]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I absolutely wouldnt pay a king's ransom to get any of those QB's. Here's why you dont do it. 

 

There are the list of the QB's taken with the 1st pick of the draft the past 30 years. 

1. Jared Goff

2. Jameis Wilson

3. Andrew Luck

4. Cam Newton

5. Sam Bradford- Bust

6. Matt Stafford

7. JaMarcus Russell- Bust

8. Alex Smith- middle of the pack

9. Eli Manning- SB winner

10. David Carr- victim of circumstance but still a bust

11. Mike Vick

12. Tim Couch- Bust

13. Peyton Manning- SB winner

14. Jeff George- Bust

15. Troy Aikman- SB winner

16. Vinny Testaverde Middle of the pack

 

Of the 16 QB's, only 3 have won the Superbowl. You do have a couple who've made it to the dance but lost (Cam, George) and you do have a couple here who are considered legit franchise QB's, but what people must remember is if you give up a king's ransom to get your guy you're INSTANTLY putting that QB in a bad position. Why? 

#1. He could end up being a bust and wasnt worth the trade.

#2. He could end up being just a middle of the pack guy and wasnt worth the trade

#3. He could end up being great but you've traded away all of your draft picks because you mortgaged your future in order to get him so you cant build around him. 

#4. If the Jets win 5 or 6 games they're pretty much guaranteed a top 10 pick. Most of the QB's that have won superbowls or are considered "ELITE" in this league werent taken with the 1st pick of the draft, they were taken in the mid first (Roethlisberger), late first (Rodgers), 2nd round (Brees) 3rd round (WIlson) 6th round (Brady) etc. 

#5. During the last 30 years, half of the 1st overall picks have been QB's yet only 3 have won superbowls (Manning brothers, Troy Aikman), and we have more busts drafted with the 1st pick than we do superbowl winners (5 total busts). 

 

The odds of these "cant miss prospects" being any good are slim. They're always "franchise QB's" until you mortgage your future, draft a guy like RG3 then end up getting your franchise guy during the same damn draft in the 4th round (Kirk Cousins). 

 

You dont pay a King's ransom, period. You evaluate the talent, let foolish teams like the Rams move up to take a guy like Goff and you sit and find the guy with skills that's being overlooked. 

Crazy to me fans of this team would take this stance. Are you kidding me?? We've been deprived of a franchise QB since forever. And now if they're in position to grab a top prospect, you wanna say "eh wait and take what falls to you". This team has been set back for years, giving up multiple first picks isn't gonna make this team any worse. 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

I'm pretty confident that it's not going to be an issue because the Jets will be picking in the top 3 next year. But if they do need to trade up to get one of those guys, yes I would do it if those prospects have great upcoming seasons and are projected to still be franchise caliber QB's by next years draft.

[pdxgreen]

If it's for Darnold or Allen, yes.  If its for Rosen, no.  I don't want Mr. Hot Tub on this team.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

because RB and QB equate out the same.  and it's the 90's.

Thank you Captain Obvious. 

[MDL_JET]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Exactly . Peyton Manning is considered the greatest QB or one of the top 3 in league history, yet it took a loaded defensive Broncos team to help him win his 2nd SB and a defense that couldn't stop the run all year to suddenly become the Steel Curtin during a playoff run for him to win his 1st SB . Eli Manning is considered a borderline HOF yet he together with inspired defensive play won 2 SBs .

Then there's Andrew Luck, considered a once in a generation type talent who's recovering from injuries that almost ended his career  . All the weapons in the world around him, and an Offensive line that can't protect him . Finally, there's Russell Wilson, a QB who's nothing special, just makes plays when a play needs to be made . Surrounded by an all world defense, clutch but not spectacular offensive weapons and one of the best hardest running  RBs  the league has witness in years getting to 2 SBs and bring home 1 .

Teams win Championships, not all world QBs who take up so much of your cap that you can't field a decent team . 

And you know what all those teams with those QBs have? Sustained success. Constant playoff berths, constant division championships, etc. Are we really debating whether or not a Franchise QB is worth having on your team? Are JETS fans really debating this? 

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Exactly . Peyton Manning is considered the greatest QB or one of the top 3 in league history, yet it took a loaded defensive Broncos team to help him win his 2nd SB and a defense that couldn't stop the run all year to suddenly become the Steel Curtin during a playoff run for him to win his 1st SB . Eli Manning is considered a borderline HOF yet he together with inspired defensive play won 2 SBs .

Then there's Andrew Luck, considered a once in a generation type talent who's recovering from injuries that almost ended his career  . All the weapons in the world around him, and an Offensive line that can't protect him . Finally, there's Russell Wilson, a QB who's nothing special, just makes plays when a play needs to be made . Surrounded by an all world defense, clutch but not spectacular offensive weapons and one of the best hardest running  RBs  the league has witness in years getting to 2 SBs and bring home 1 .

Teams win Championships, not all world QBs who take up so much of your cap that you can't field a decent team . 

 

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You pay whatever it takes.  

 

Much of what you stated is true but point #3 is simply wrong.  You have 15 years to build a team around him.  The first 3 years are his time to learn anyway -let him take his lumps but stick with him..  The fact many first round and second round picks bust - there's just a good a chance that whoever you do end up taking (with the ransom picks) will bust too.

Until you find the QB everything is meaningless, floating in football purgatory.  Get the QB and start building.

I want to respond to you Fidelio with the same statement that I will be supporting Tinstar's statement above with. 

 

That Peyton Manning comparison is good. I think I got one even better. Lets look at Drew Brees. Fidelio, you say that my 3rd explanation is wrong. In the paragraph you mention how you would "pay whatever it takes" while a couple sentences later mention "The fact that many first round and second round picks bust" and that "There's a chance that whomever you pick with your ransom pick will bust too". 

 

THIS ^^^^^^ is precisely my point on why you dont pay king ransoms. You have a better chance of building your team with more high level picks than you do trying to trade away your future for the 1 opportunity to pick 1 guy at the QB position that could also bust. Not only do you reduce your chances of providing talent immediately by giving away all of your immediate draft picks, but you also ruin any opportunity of collecting talent in the future for the next year or two because those picks were part of your ransom. 

 

As for Drew Brees. This is a guy who in the past 9 seasons have had 5 5,000 yard seasons, including 3 consecutive which is a record, numerous ratings of over 100 or better. Yet, this is a guy who is a legit franchise QB, one of the best offensive weapons in all of football, and you can make the argument that statistically this guy is the best QB in the game over the past decade. With all that being said Drew Brees hasnt been in the playoffs for years...since 2013 to be exact. This is again, arguably the best QB (statistically) in the game with an offense that consistently tops in the NFL. And yet they cant make the playoffs and they've had just 1 winning season in the past 5 years. 

Drew Brees, arguably the best QB in the game and an bonafide franchise QB cant make the playoffs. That right there proves my point and disproves this notion that "Until you find a QB everything is meaningless". 

 

The craziest thing is, the year that the Saints won the SB it was arguably Brees worst season statistically of those 9 seasons. Go look for yourself. He didnt throw as many TD's, he threw the most INT's that year than any other year and he had the 2nd lowest total passing yards. Yet he won a SB? Why? Because the Saints were more of a complete team and didnt put it all on Drew Brees. 

 

The Texans have a complete team, but they're missing a QB. They've made it to the playoffs with Brock Osweiler, and Brian Hoyer. I doubt those QB's come anywhere close to Drew Brees. However, the Texans football team as a whole is more complete than the Saints. The fact that the Saints have one of the most brilliant QB's in NFL history hasnt changed a thing in terms of team success. 

Andrew Luck was dominating the AFC South back when those teams were piss poor. I think in Luck's first 3 seasons he was undefeated in his division. Outside of the fact that Luck was in the weakest division in all of football, NFL fans basically praised anything Luck did as him being the "future best QB ever". The moment that AFC south began to get competitive, Luck's undefeated streak stopped, the Colts playoffs stopped, the Colts winning the division stopped...etc. Why? Because a football team isnt the QB. Matter of fact, the AFC South team that has won the division the past couple of season is the team that had the most uncertain QB situation...which was the Houston Texans. However, the had the best overall talent in terms of a complete team. That's proof once again. 

 

Why is it that Aaron Rodgers isnt consistently winning championships, or atleast representing the NFC in the SB? It's because you need more than a QB. Why not Drew Brees? Why not Andrew Luck? 

 

How can Peyton Manning miss out on all those opportunities to beat the Patriots and win SB's in his prime yet he gets one when he's obviously washed up and isnt even worthy of being called a professional QB? The answer? It's because in his prime the Colts wasnt a team, and in his last season the Broncos was the most complete team in the league that actually got better when it came to playoff football. 

 

The Jets most successful stretch was with Mark Sanchez, a guy who was crappy but when you have a #1 to #5 defense, a solid Oline and one of the best running games then you have a recipe for success. 

 

How many times must we see this before people realize that this "Franchise QB" thing is so damn overrated. You dont need Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, Tom Brady to win SB's. Look at Tom Brady. both times Brady was out all the Patriots did was win football games. Why? Because they had the best cheater in the game in Belicheat and a bunch of no-name players that knew their job. 

They've won with no-name guys like Mike Vrabel, Teddy Bruschi, TOM BRADY, Malcom Butler etc. Guys who individually arent anything to rave over but in a system that instills discipline and "Do your damn job" these guys are winners. 

 

Honestly, if Brady was out for the season the Patriots probably would have won it all with Garappolo. All Garappolo did when he got his opportunity was look fantastic. And all he did was replace a guy who is now considered the greatest QB of all-time. 

 

The QB position has become overrated. Build your team with skillsets that compliment one another and you will build a winner. Paying Kings Ransom's to get one player and expect that to work is a fools game. History supports that fact. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

Crazy to me fans of this team would take this stance. Are you kidding me?? We've been deprived of a franchise QB since forever. And now if they're in position to grab a top prospect, you wanna say "eh wait and take what falls to you". This team has been set back for years, giving up multiple first picks isn't gonna make this team any worse. 

 

Paying a Kings Ransom isnt and shouldnt be called "being in position". What that's called is being bent over and taking it in the butt. We've been deprived for years, but it's not because we didnt have a high enough pick to draft a franchise QB. Lets take a look. Lets go down the list of times the Jets could have had Franchise/HOF QB's and they didnt have to move an inch from their draft position.

 

1. Remember when Woody Johnson said he regretted passing on Russell Wilson in the 2nd round? 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/59167/jets-owner-woody-johnson-laments-not-drafting-russell-wilson

2. Remember when the Jets passed on Dan Marino in the 1st round? 

3. Remember when the Jets drafted Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round and passed on Dak Prescott? 

4. Remember when the Jets passed on Derek Carr in the 2nd round in 2014? 

5 & 6. Remember when the Jets passed on drafting both Tom Brady AND Peyton Manning?
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-tom-brady-peyton-manning-draft-092115

 

What you're talking is crazy. The Jets passed on franchise QB's and didnt have to pay any King Ransom's for any of these guys they passed on. Why? Because the Jets had every opportunity to draft any of these guys and passed on them. I could throw in Andy Dalton or Kirk Cousins in that mix as well. There are plenty of QB's that have played in this league that the Jets had the opportunity to draft or evaluate. 

 

The Rams won a SB and had another SB appearance with Kurt Warner, an undrafted guy. The Cowboys had a franchise guy in Tony Romo, an undrafted guy. A guy that so many Jets fans wanted if the Bills released him, Tyrod Taylor was a 6th round pick by the Baltimore Ravens. 

Also, the Jets thought that Mark Sanchez was their guy and moved up in the draft (I wouldnt call it a "Kings Ransom") to acquire Sanchez because he was "their guy". How did that work out? Exactly. 

 

You dont pay King Ransoms. You evaluate and you draft every year until you hit. This is why I preferred the Jets to have drafted a Nathan Peterman this year than bringing in a Free Agent McCown when we know 100% he will amount to nothing. This "mentor excuse" sh*t is for suckers. Seriously, its for the birds. Either you're good or you're not. Now if Peterman becomes the next Prescott/Wilson then he will be another guy that we passed on for a bullsh*t QB. We passed on Carr because we drafted Smith. Well, the Chargers drafted Rivers when they had Brees....two franchise QB's at the end of the day. I dont hear Chargers fans complaining about that situation. However, Jets fans wish Idzik would have taken a chance on Carr. If he did he would still be the GM for this football team. 

 

The Jets take themselves OUT OF POSITION when they pay ransoms, because most of the time when we reflect back in 5 years we tend to see that there is always some 3rd, 4th or 5th round guy that ended up being the best QB in the class the same year some sorry team paid a ransom. What happened last season? What happened with RG3? 

 

Paying Ransoms is equivalent to trying to take the easy way out, and there is no easy way out. That's like trying to pay your rent by playing the lotto because the guy on television said you can win 20 million dollars. That's just stupid. 

[thadude]

Macc is the worst evaluator of the qb position anyone has ever seen.  Why would anyone want him picking our next qb in the 2018 draft?

[T0mShane]

But seriously guys, how many draft picks are we sending to KC for Alex Smith next January?

[thadude]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But seriously guys, how many draft picks are we sending to KC for Alex Smith next January?

We're going to trade the #1 overall pick for Eric Berry and play 11 safeties on defense.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I don't give up a king's ransom but understand that there are good QBs in that first round that all can't go top 5. You pick the best available. Giving up everything for a prospective franchise qb never works, whether that's because of desperate scouting or because it creates a talent void idk but it doesn't work. If you can get Luke Falk from 9-12 next year you take it and count your blessings.

John Elway ring a bell?

[TuscanyTile2]

21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You just paid that ransom for two safeties and now we're all out of ransoms. Thank you. Drive through.

Is a 2nd rounder a kings ransom?  Jamal Adams was a perfectly reasonably pick IMO so really it's only a question of using a 2nd rounder on Maye.  

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

John Elway ring a bell?

2 players and a first rounder isn't really a king's ransom. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

34 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

John Elway ring a bell?

John Elway forced his way out of Baltimore. And truth be told, John Elway is probably the most overrated quarterback that I know of. 

[King P]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

John Elway forced his way out of Baltimore. And truth be told, John Elway is probably the most overrated quarterback that I know of. 

I guess you don't know Brett Favre then lol

[Villain The Foe]

7 minutes ago, King P said:

I guess you don't know Brett Favre then lol

Favre did have hype, but he was a better QB than John Elway. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Favre did have hype, but he was a better QB than John Elway. 

Come on.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Come on.

Brett Favre wasnt better than John Elway Tom? 

[NoBowles]

15 minutes ago, King P said:

I guess you don't know Brett Favre then lol

This

[NoBowles]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Come on.

Real question is, Elway or Geno?

[King P]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Real question is, Elway or Geno?

That's not fair though, Geno didn't have the weapons Elway had 

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Brett Favre wasnt better than John Elway Tom? 

No goddamn way. Favre was Tony Romo with more arm strength.

[Villain The Foe]

36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

No goddamn way. Favre was Tony Romo with more arm strength.

Brett is better on every statistical level, the first player ever to have 3 consecutive league MVP's.  Favre was putting up seasons of 30+ passing TD's in the 90's, a decade before the NFL officially became "a passing league". 

 

Brett Favre in the 90's was just ridiculous. Elway had only 3 seasons out of 16 total where he completed 60% of his passes. Favre ended his 20 year career as a career 62% comp rate passer. 

Elway never had a season where he threw for 30 TD's. Favre had 9 of his 20 seasons with 30 or more TD's. Favre achieved 30 or more TD's for half his career, something Elway never did once. 

Elway has one 4,000 yard season. Favre has 6. 

Elway has never been on Brett Favre's level. 

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Brett is better on every statistical level, the first player ever to have 3 consecutive league MVP's.  Favre was putting up seasons of 30+ passing TD's in the 90's, a decade before the NFL officially became "a passing league". 

 

Brett Favre in the 90's was just ridiculous. Elway had only 3 seasons out of 16 total where he completed 60% of his passes. Favre ended his 29 year career as a career 62% comp rate passer. 

Elway never had a season where he threw for 30 TD's. Favre had 9 of his 20 seasons with 30 or more TD's. Favre achieved 30 or more TD's for half his career, something Elway never did once. 

Elway has one 4,000 yard season. Favre has 6. 

Elway has never been on Brett Favre's level. 

You know what? I just went back and looked at Elway's numbers. That mother****er really was overrated. Thank you.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

You know what? I just went back and looked at Elway's numbers. That mother****er really was overrated. Thank you.

[jetspenguin]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I absolutely wouldnt pay a king's ransom to get any of those QB's. Here's why you dont do it. 

 

There are the list of the QB's taken with the 1st pick of the draft the past 30 years. 

1. Jared Goff

2. Jameis Wilson

3. Andrew Luck

4. Cam Newton

5. Sam Bradford- Bust

6. Matt Stafford

7. JaMarcus Russell- Bust

8. Alex Smith- middle of the pack

9. Eli Manning- SB winner

10. David Carr- victim of circumstance but still a bust

11. Mike Vick

12. Tim Couch- Bust

13. Peyton Manning- SB winner

14. Jeff George- Bust

15. Troy Aikman- SB winner

16. Vinny Testaverde Middle of the pack

 

Of the 16 QB's, only 3 have won the Superbowl. You do have a couple who've made it to the dance but lost (Cam, George) and you do have a couple here who are considered legit franchise QB's, but what people must remember is if you give up a king's ransom to get your guy you're INSTANTLY putting that QB in a bad position. Why? 

#1. He could end up being a bust and wasnt worth the trade.

#2. He could end up being just a middle of the pack guy and wasnt worth the trade

#3. He could end up being great but you've traded away all of your draft picks because you mortgaged your future in order to get him so you cant build around him. 

#4. If the Jets win 5 or 6 games they're pretty much guaranteed a top 10 pick. Most of the QB's that have won superbowls or are considered "ELITE" in this league werent taken with the 1st pick of the draft, they were taken in the mid first (Roethlisberger), late first (Rodgers), 2nd round (Brees) 3rd round (WIlson) 6th round (Brady) etc. 

#5. During the last 30 years, half of the 1st overall picks have been QB's yet only 3 have won superbowls (Manning brothers, Troy Aikman), and we have more busts drafted with the 1st pick than we do superbowl winners (5 total busts). 

 

The odds of these "cant miss prospects" being any good are slim. They're always "franchise QB's" until you mortgage your future, draft a guy like RG3 then end up getting your franchise guy during the same damn draft in the 4th round (Kirk Cousins). 

 

You dont pay a King's ransom, period. You evaluate the talent, let foolish teams like the Rams move up to take a guy like Goff and you sit and find the guy with skills that's being overlooked. 

Agree to the tenth power. I couldnt have said it better, good post sir. 

[jetspenguin]

8 hours ago, thadude said:

Macc is the worst evaluator of the qb position anyone has ever seen.  Why would anyone want him picking our next qb in the 2018 draft?

exaggerate much? 

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You know what? I just went back and looked at Elway's numbers. That mother****er really was overrated. Thank you.

He built his rep on those late comebacks but he was never really a great QB.

[TuscanyTile2]

Elway wasn't a great QB?!  Were you watching a different sport during his era?

[artemusclyde]

21 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Exactly . Peyton Manning is considered the greatest QB or one of the top 3 in league history, yet it took a loaded defensive Broncos team to help him win his 2nd SB and a defense that couldn't stop the run all year to suddenly become the Steel Curtin during a playoff run for him to win his 1st SB . Eli Manning is considered a borderline HOF yet he together with inspired defensive play won 2 SBs .

Then there's Andrew Luck, considered a once in a generation type talent who's recovering from injuries that almost ended his career  . All the weapons in the world around him, and an Offensive line that can't protect him . Finally, there's Russell Wilson, a QB who's nothing special, just makes plays when a play needs to be made . Surrounded by an all world defense, clutch but not spectacular offensive weapons and one of the best hardest running  RBs  the league has witness in years getting to 2 SBs and bring home 1 .

Teams win Championships, not all world QBs who take up so much of your cap that you can't field a decent team . 

10

Russell Wilson is practically in the same position as Andrew Luck in terms of offensive talent. Seahawks are doing a piss poor job of protecting him with the turnstiles they play at o-line. A better comparison would be Carr. They really protected him and got him a great o-line. Raiders did a really good job building a team around him.

[Sperm Edwards]

22 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Finally, there's Russell Wilson, a QB who's nothing special, just makes plays when a play needs to be made . Surrounded by an all world defense, clutch but not spectacular offensive weapons and one of the best hardest running  RBs  the league has witness in years getting to 2 SBs and bring home 1 .

Everyone who says this is simply fixated on his height, which further caused him to be a 3rd round pick in the first place.

The idea that all he does is just "do no harm" like Alex Smith, plus make a play or two, while the rest of the team really wins games for him, is idiotic. 

Put Carr behind the OLs he's played behind his whole career and his story instead is he's a shellshocked bust just like his big brother. 

Wilson is quite special. 

[Lil Woody]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Everyone who says this is simply fixated on his height, which further caused him to be a 3rd round pick in the first place.

The idea that all he does is just "do no harm" like Alex Smith, plus make a play or two, while the rest of the team really wins games for him, is idiotic. 

Put Carr behind the OLs he's played behind his whole career and his story instead is he's a shellshocked bust just like his big brother. 

Wilson is quite special. 

Height is a big deal. Ask any short man. I like to pat them on the head and call them "big guy". They like that.

[Raideraholic]

On May 19, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Powpow said:

Top 3. Only the Browns or Niners could possibly get a higher pick.  Rams will be much better with Goff. They have a stellar defense. The Bills were 7-9. Cant see them going lower than that.  The Chargers were incredibly 5-11 just like us. But the Chargers have a brutal schedule but lost many close games last year so they are extremely competitive.  Plus then have a QB whose good for at least 3-4 wins alone.  Key game Jets vs. Chargers @ NY. The Jags were horrible last year 3-13. That will not happen again. Marrone is a very good coach and this team is stacked with crazy young talent. Darnold or Allen. Niners and Shannahan will sign Cousins. We may have to deal picks to move up to #1 or #2.

The Chargers are going to be a very good team in 2017.(could very well surprise and win the Afc West).   The Chargers had so many players on Ir last year , and could have won a lot more than they did.( threw so many games away with stupid plays).   I think they are more serious contender than Denver.( who don't have the Qb).