"My" Defense and "The" Offense

[Integrity28]

I made an observation about this last night while ranting about Rex's handle on this team right now.

I think its a pretty deep-rooted problem, and the essence of why Rex wasn't given the HC job elsewhere... he really doesn't seem capable or willing to take ownership of the WHOLE.

He constantly talks endearingly about the defense, HIS defense... while distancing himself from the offense, referring to it often as "the" offense... not "HIS" offense. Semantic difference? Sure... but I see it as a symptom of one of the things holding this team back.

Damn would I love to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between Woody, Tanny, Rex and Schotty. I'm not starting this as a Schotty bashing thread, we have plenty of those... this is more about whether we think its good or bad that Rex washes his hands of the offense. Personally, I hate it... to me this is a "crack" in the philosophical foundation of this team.

I think this is one of the reasons we are using draft picks to take players like Kenrick Ellis, who is inactive on game days, and looking at a situation where we had a ton of DL to pick from for the roster this year... meanwhile, we all know the issues with the OL talent depth. Rex is prioritizing "his" unit... and not both sides of the line of scrimmage... meh... this could be all conjecture driven by frustration too... Until we fix the offensive line, I suspect there will be a lot of that.

[CTM]

Schott is this years built in scapegoat.... The defense has been bad, but the offense has been dreadful

[CTM]

^^ so yeah, rex is distancing from it

[Integrity28]

Schott is this years built in scapegoat.... The defense has been bad, but the offense has been dreadful

I understand that, and have voiced my opinions about Schotty since my days at JI and Mangini's first season... but I was hoping not to discuss Schotty here. Its more about Rex, and whether we think he can ultimately take ownership of the whole team and stop thinking like a D-Coordinator. He washes his hands of the offense... and its resulted in a situation where he doesn't seem to be involved in fixing the problem... which in turn exacerbates it.

[Integrity28]

^^ so yeah, rex is distancing from it

Ah, I see where you are coming from. In other words... Schotty is being hung out to dry.

[CTM]

Ah, I see where you are coming from. In other words... Schotty is being hung out to dry.

imo, yes..

[Integrity28]

imo, yes..

Question: Can you hack into Schotty's Facebook and post comments that make him sound like a terrorist?

Next question, serious one: Can you hack into WOPR and fire a missile up Schotty's a$$?

[Integrity28]

SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?

BEEP BOOP BOP BOOP...

[SMC]

I agree with both Ape and CTM in this thread.

Which means my head will explode.

[Integrity28]

I agree with both Ape and CTM in this thread.

Which means my head will explode.

DEFCON 3

Scramble and alert all gheymofags...

[RutgersJetFan]

Do we really need to resort to textual framing analysis to explain why Rex has sucked this year?

[CTM]

DEFCON 3

Scramble and alert all gheymofags...

iz alerted! iz alerted wooowooo

[JiFtheOracle]

Isnt this pretty common in the Football these days if you hire an ex-coordinator?

I only ask because both of my pathetic Football teams have defensive HC's who have completely outsourced their offense to a so called offensive genius.

[Integrity28]

Isnt this pretty common in the Football these days if you hire an ex-coordinator?

I only ask because both of my pathetic Football teams have defensive HC's who have completely outsourced their offense to a so called offensive genius.

Yes. It is common, if you look at teams like Houston where they have Kubiak and Wade Phillips. Or Green Bay where they have McCarthy and Dom Capers.

The difference with those scenarios is you have 2 coordinators of equal capability. Capers and Phillips are GREAT DCs and McCarthy and Kubiak were great OCs. Creating balance... right now Rex is great, and Schotty ******* sucks.

[#27TheDominator]

Hey Monkey, you are complaining about Rex not taking "ownership:of the whole" about 30 seconds after you cried about him saying we were going back to the ground and pound. It seems to me that he takes credit for the ground and pound or lack thereof and your complaints are a little contradictory.

[JoeWillie]

I made an observation about this last night while ranting about Rex's handle on this team right now.

I think its a pretty deep-rooted problem, and the essence of why Rex wasn't given the HC job elsewhere... he really doesn't seem capable or willing to take ownership of the WHOLE.

He constantly talks endearingly about the defense, HIS defense... while distancing himself from the offense, referring to it often as "the" offense... not "HIS" offense. Semantic difference? Sure... but I see it as a symptom of one of the things holding this team back.

Damn would I love to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between Woody, Tanny, Rex and Schotty. I'm not starting this as a Schotty bashing thread, we have plenty of those... this is more about whether we think its good or bad that Rex washes his hands of the offense. Personally, I hate it... to me this is a "crack" in the philosophical foundation of this team.

I think this is one of the reasons we are using draft picks to take players like Kenrick Ellis, who is inactive on game days, and looking at a situation where we had a ton of DL to pick from for the roster this year... meanwhile, we all know the issues with the OL talent depth. Rex is prioritizing "his" unit... and not both sides of the line of scrimmage... meh... this could be all conjecture driven by frustration too... Until we fix the offensive line, I suspect there will be a lot of that.

I think you make an excellent point and we've seen this before from another head coach.

His name? Buddy Ryan.

And we all know how many Super Bowls he won as a head coach.

[Larz]

the real problem ?

woody was obsessed with getting another big name star to help sell PSL's and lost out on upgrading the roster

[Sperm Edwards]

I made an observation about this last night while ranting about Rex's handle on this team right now.

I think its a pretty deep-rooted problem, and the essence of why Rex wasn't given the HC job elsewhere... he really doesn't seem capable or willing to take ownership of the WHOLE.

He constantly talks endearingly about the defense, HIS defense... while distancing himself from the offense, referring to it often as "the" offense... not "HIS" offense. Semantic difference? Sure... but I see it as a symptom of one of the things holding this team back.

Damn would I love to be a fly on the wall in a conversation between Woody, Tanny, Rex and Schotty. I'm not starting this as a Schotty bashing thread, we have plenty of those... this is more about whether we think its good or bad that Rex washes his hands of the offense. Personally, I hate it... to me this is a "crack" in the philosophical foundation of this team.

I think this is one of the reasons we are using draft picks to take players like Kenrick Ellis, who is inactive on game days, and looking at a situation where we had a ton of DL to pick from for the roster this year... meanwhile, we all know the issues with the OL talent depth. Rex is prioritizing "his" unit... and not both sides of the line of scrimmage... meh... this could be all conjecture driven by frustration too... Until we fix the offensive line, I suspect there will be a lot of that.

They dropped the ball with the OL in August when they were hit with the double-whammy of Turner's injury and the obvious lack of development from Ducasse.

But I think you're using a little hindsight with regards to drafting Ellis. Turner is out for the year and then Mangold got injured. Replace those two names with Pitoitua and Pouha instead and you'd be killing them for not drafting or acquiring DL depth. Particularly if Turner and Mangold were healthy and they drafted another G/T in round 3 before they got to see Ducasse's development (or lack thereof as we now see).

Here's what I wonder with regards to Rex:

Does he never plop himself in front of the game film and pretend he's a DC playing against the Jets? Or how about during the game itself -- you telling me he never puts himself into the mind of a DC playing against the Jets and based on down, distance, and Jets film every team has, what defense he would dial up himself and what play he'd expect? I can't believe he's never done that and never come away thinking, "Man these guys sure are easy to defend unless they flat-out overpower the D or unless an unusually good play is made." Does he never hear a play come through his headset during the game and say, "Wow, now THAT is a great f***ing idea. I know defense and my defense would be totally unprepared for that at this time."

[SMC]

Great points, Sperm. It looks that Rex doesnt pay attention. His defensive knowledge should be an asset in evaluation, but it seems that he doesnt do it

[Jetsfan80]

I think you make an excellent point and we've seen this before from another head coach.

His name? Buddy Ryan.

And we all know how many Super Bowls he won as a head coach.

The Eagles were awful when Buddy Ryan took over. He made them a contender.

[tparich]

I thought the same thing myself. The only thing that I can think of is that Shotty is either a Tanny guy or a Woody guy and so he doesn't say anything.

[SenorGato]

The team needed to draft DL this year, and two was an even better idea.

The OL situation is just early season bs and will pass once Mangold comes back, IMO.

[GREENBEAN]

I understand that, and have voiced my opinions about Schotty since my days at JI and Mangini's first season... but I was hoping not to discuss Schotty here. Its more about Rex, and whether we think he can ultimately take ownership of the whole team and stop thinking like a D-Coordinator. He washes his hands of the offense... and its resulted in a situation where he doesn't seem to be involved in fixing the problem... which in turn exacerbates it.

I have a buddy I talk to who isn't a message board guy. He says to me all the time how he believes Rex to be the finest DC we've ever had, but that his being a HC is our problem. That Rex just isn't the guy to control the whole system. Me? I'm not so sure. I think that he is obviously defensive minded and that won't change, but I see plenty of growth since his first year as our HC. He is willing to take criticism and has handled HC duties, things like clock mgmt much better. Remember the 09 season? He was being ridiculed for stuff like that. I might be wrong but I think the draft picks since he's been here have been lopsided towards the offense? (way too early for me to start researching lol)

Let's see how he handles this early season strife. We have yet to really have that during the rex years. The Jets have come out of the gate pretty strong and started to slip later in the season the last two years. This might be good that he's dealing with this stuff early.

In summation, I think your original point is valid, but not to the degree that is being feared. I would like to see another offensive mind in here though. This Shcotty era is just not doing it for us IMO.

[Integrity28]

I have a buddy I talk to who isn't a message board guy. He says to me all the time how he believes Rex to be the finest DC we've ever had, but that his being a HC is our problem. That Rex just isn't the guy to control the whole system. Me? I'm not so sure. I think that he is obviously defensive minded and that won't change, but I see plenty of growth since his first year as our HC. He is willing to take criticism and has handled HC duties, things like clock mgmt much better. Remember the 09 season? He was being ridiculed for stuff like that. I might be wrong but I think the draft picks since he's been here have been lopsided towards the offense? (way too early for me to start researching lol)

Let's see how he handles this early season strife. We have yet to really have that during the rex years. The Jets have come out of the gate pretty strong and started to slip later in the season the last two years. This might be good that he's dealing with this stuff early.

In summation, I think your original point is valid, but not to the degree that is being feared. I would like to see another offensive mind in here though. This Shcotty era is just not doing it for us IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I have definitely seen his growth as well. Sanchez, Rex, and Schotty should all be learning on the job. Rex doesn't seem to repeat the same mistakes often, but the other 2, well... they do.

My grumblings after these 2 consecutive weeks is more about what I'd like to see Rex be working on to continue to grow... they are not meant to imply I've lost faith in him and want him gone. I just don't think anyone is above constructive criticism... and as long as Rex continues to show growth, my confidence in him is unwavering... its just a frustrating 2 weeks... and frankly, I am not as confident as Rex is in his supporting cast. The accountant and nepotism Schott for brains.

[Bugg]

I think you make an excellent point and we've seen this before from another head coach.

His name? Buddy Ryan.

And we all know how many Super Bowls he won as a head coach.

Buddy was quoted last week still badmouthing Kevin Gilbride from their fistfight on the Oilers' sideline in a playoff game. He also had a bad relationship with Ditka, though apparently theya re now on good terms. Irish Alzheimers; the guy frogets everything but the grudges and slights.

Still, Rex's DNA is to treat the OC like an interloper.This is not good.

[slats]

I think this is one of the reasons we are using draft picks to take players like Kenrick Ellis, who is inactive on game days, and looking at a situation where we had a ton of DL to pick from for the roster this year... meanwhile, we all know the issues with the OL talent depth. Rex is prioritizing "his" unit... and not both sides of the line of scrimmage... meh... this could be all conjecture driven by frustration too... Until we fix the offensive line, I suspect there will be a lot of that.

I agree with you in principle about how Rex views the team, but I don't think it's effected personnel. The drafts have generally been weighted towards the offense since he got here. This year, the draft was defensive with the first two picks, but then the FA money was spent on the WR's. I think Tanny's afraid to draft WR's high, but that's another post.

There have been whispers about Rex and Sanchez not getting along (I don't know about Sanchez and Schottie, but they shouldn't get along). Rex just may not have any trust in the people on that side of the ball. That might be his issue. I agree he needs to take ownership first, and not wait until the offense is playing well to take credit. This call for the return to the ground & pound may be a start. Who knows? I'm not holding my breath.

[Matt39]

I agree with you in principle about how Rex views the team, but I don't think it's effected personnel. The drafts have generally been weighted towards the offense since he got here. This year, the draft was defensive with the first two picks, but then the FA money was spent on the WR's. I think Tanny's afraid to draft WR's high, but that's another post.

There have been whispers about Rex and Sanchez not getting along (I don't know about Sanchez and Schottie, but they shouldn't get along). Rex just may not have any trust in the people on that side of the ball. That might be his issue. I agree he needs to take ownership first, and not wait until the offense is playing well to take credit. This call for the return to the ground & pound may be a start. Who knows? I'm not holding my breath.

Link?

[SenorGato]

I don't know why were pretending Rex doesnt get involved in the offense. They didn't run the ball 1200+ times over the past two years for no good reason. Rex changed the way the Yets run their offense...ground and pound, eat up clock, and help out the defense and STs in the war for field position that this team considers so precious. Rex probably came into the year thinking the offense and Sanchez could be more aggressive and pass the ball, but we got SSDD'd by the QB and now it's back to playing the ground and pound field position game.

I'm with CTM that the team has it's built in scapegoat. I'm not with the sky is falling crowd that says it's time to play that card...especially since they want to play that card every week anyway.

[Damaged89]

I don't know why were pretending Rex doesnt get involved in the offense. They didn't run the ball 1200+ times over the past two years for no good reason. Rex changed the way the Yets run their offense...ground and pound, eat up clock, and help out the defense and STs in the war for field position that this team considers so precious. Rex probably came into the year thinking the offense and Sanchez cou ld be more aggressive and pass the ball, but we got SSDD'd by the QB and now it's back to playing the ground and pound field position game.

I'm with CTM that the team has it's built in scapegoat. I'm not with the sky is falling crowd that says it's time to play that card...especially since they want to play that card every week anyway.

I think there's some truth to this. Sanchez has been most effective when we protect him with the running game. It was wishful thinking on the part of the coaching staff to think that he could carry the offense. Hopefully the line can be salvaged, because this is a five win team with nacho throwing 40 times a game.

[SenorGato]

I think there's some truth to this. Sanchez has been most effective when we protect him with the running game. It was wishful thinking on the part of the coaching staff to think that he could carry the offense. Hopefully the line can be salvaged, because this is a five win team with nacho throwing 40 times a game.

Every offense should be balanced unless the QB is operating at an extremely high level anyway. The running game hasn't been all that good either, which can't help the still young Sanchez.

Personally, none of this stuff actually bothers me. There's 12 games left, and the team's best offensive lineman hasn't played in half the already played games. Sanchez hasn't been great or even good, but he hasn't exactly laid waste to all our hopes and dreams either. There's too much season left for me to lose my crap over a whole two game losing streak.

[jack48]

Yes. It is common, if you look at teams like Houston where they have Kubiak and Wade Phillips. Or Green Bay where they have McCarthy and Dom Capers.

The difference with those scenarios is you have 2 coordinators of equal capability. Capers and Phillips are GREAT DCs and McCarthy and Kubiak were great OCs. Creating balance... right now Rex is great, and Schotty ******* sucks.

Rex should have come in with his own guy but they would not let him. It looks like they are still not letting him. Remember when Rex's D tore Chad Pennington and Miami apart in the playoffs. Think Rex believes he could do the same to this offense? If he does, then he needs a new OC. Unless, of course, they just won't let him. You would think that he has the cachet to demand it by now.

[Smashmouth]

Schott is this years built in scapegoat.... The defense has been bad, but the offense has been dreadful

Shott has his own built in Scapegoat ...the Offensive line .

I agree with everything OP says 100 % . Rex treats the Offense like second hand citizens including his QB . While some may think surrounding your young QB with second hand WR's everyyear is a good thing I think its a horrible decision and it will have an effect on his growth as a player. Gte him Young WR's he can work with for years and build with not one freakin year bandaids.

[jack48]

They dropped the ball with the OL in August when they were hit with the double-whammy of Turner's injury and the obvious lack of development from Ducasse.

But I think you're using a little hindsight with regards to drafting Ellis. Turner is out for the year and then Mangold got injured. Replace those two names with Pitoitua and Pouha instead and you'd be killing them for not drafting or acquiring DL depth. Particularly if Turner and Mangold were healthy and they drafted another G/T in round 3 before they got to see Ducasse's development (or lack thereof as we now see).

Here's what I wonder with regards to Rex:

Does he never plop himself in front of the game film and pretend he's a DC playing against the Jets? Or how about during the game itself -- you telling me he never puts himself into the mind of a DC playing against the Jets and based on down, distance, and Jets film every team has, what defense he would dial up himself and what play he'd expect? I can't believe he's never done that and never come away thinking, "Man these guys sure are easy to defend unless they flat-out overpower the D or unless an unusually good play is made." Does he never hear a play come through his headset during the game and say, "Wow, now THAT is a great f***ing idea. I know defense and my defense would be totally unprepared for that at this time."

My word of honor: I did not see this. I just posted my reply to the first remark in the post. Needless to say, I think you are spot on. And why I suspect that BS presence is out of Rex's control.