Official 2012-2013 New York Knicks Thread

[SMC]

It really is amazing that Kidd hasnt scored since April 23.

[JustInFudge]

Nice game by the Knicks.  Pacers played horrible, turning the ball over like crazy.

 

Woodson's substitution are making me crazy.  Its ok to pull Smith when he's absolutely worthless.  Throw in Copeland occasionally.  And I wonder if anyone has told him that he's allowed to have Martin and Chandler on the court at the same time?  A line up of Felton, Shump, Melo, Martin and Chandler would absolutely man handle the Pacers.  

[JADEDGREEN]

Great game for the Knicks last night, should be a good series.

[Matt39]

Nice game by the Knicks.  Pacers played horrible, turning the ball over like crazy.

 

Woodson's substitution are making me crazy.  Its ok to pull Smith when he's absolutely worthless.  Throw in Copeland occasionally.  And I wonder if anyone has told him that he's allowed to have Martin and Chandler on the court at the same time?  A line up of Felton, Shump, Melo, Martin and Chandler would absolutely man handle the Pacers.  

 

I agree....but Melo likes the spacing with only one big on the floor...he basically floats between playing the 3-4 throughout the game. Pretty much why him and Amare could play together.

[JustInFudge]

I agree....but Melo likes the spacing with only one big on the floor...he basically floats between playing the 3-4 throughout the game. Pretty much why him and Amare could play together.

 

I dont think Martin and Chandler on the floor would hurt the spacing.  They dont look for shots the way Amare does.

 

Another thing that drives me crazy is why does Melo never set screens on that top of the key pick and role?  Is it in his contract that he's too good to set screens?  lol  The only time he does it, is when he's just trying to create room for his Iso b.s. 

[Matt39]

I dont think Martin and Chandler on the floor would hurt the spacing.  They dont look for shots the way Amare does.

 

Another thing that drives me crazy is why does Melo never set screens on that top of the key pick and role?  Is it in his contract that he's too good to set screens?  lol  The only time he does it, is when he's just trying to create room for his Iso b.s. 

 

Ive been screaming for Melo to set screens since he's been here. There's so much bizarre stuff that goes on with the Knicks it just hurts to think about. Melo off the screen and role would be lethal,

[JustInFudge]

Ive been screaming for Melo to set screens since he's been here. There's so much bizarre stuff that goes on with the Knicks it just hurts to think about. Melo off the screen and role would be lethal,

 

Exactly!  With his ability to score from anywhere on the court, it would be impossible to defend.  Especially with a guy like Felton who can do a lot off a screen.

The only logical thing I can think of is they dont want Melo to get unnecessary fouls.  Which would be a coward way to go about running your offense.

[Matt39]

Exactly!  With his ability to score from anywhere on the court, it would be impossible to defend.  Especially with a guy like Felton who can do a lot off a screen.

The only logical thing I can think of is they dont want Melo to get unnecessary fouls.  Which would be a coward way to go about running your offense.

 

Melo doesnt like contact

[SMC]

At least Matt can find solace in George Karl winning COTY

[Matt39]

At least Matt can find solace in George Karl winning COTY

 

What's more mind boggling is Thibs finished 8th

[SMC]

Melo has screened before and did it in Game 6.

I think it may have to do with the offensive limitations of Tyson and Kenyon. If they're not doing the screen, that means they're floating in mid range area where they can't shoot it.

[SMC]

What's more mind boggling is Thibs finished 8th

Absolutely, but I think the Bulls late season swoon might've hurt him.

[SMC]

BTW, I loved how during the 30-2 run Melo did Ewing's patented runner across the lane. With Ewing in the house pumping his fist. Never seen Melo do that.

[SMC]

Oh, and JR continues to give me sad.

[Damaged89]

Melo doesnt like contact

 

 

oh, stop it.  

 

 

I think SMC's point is valid.  Chandler/Martin as the roll man and Melo as a kick out option is a much better use of their respective skill sets.  I agree that Melo could be used more as a pick and pop player or as a pick and roll ballhandler.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Exactly!  With his ability to score from anywhere on the court, it would be impossible to defend.  Especially with a guy like Felton who can do a lot off a screen.

The only logical thing I can think of is they dont want Melo to get unnecessary fouls.  Which would be a coward way to go about running your offense.

 

 

Melo doesnt like contact

 

 

They've been running plenty of screens on and off the ball with Melo, especially when the Pacers are switching so often, so as to get David West guarding him instead of Paul George.  Watch on saturday, literally every time that Melo is being guarded by David West it's due to some variation of the pick n roll.  I'll agree with Matt that a lot of it ends up in ISO, but when you have David West on Melo, he should take it to him every single time, Westy just can't gaurd him.  The only problem is when Hibbert is in there, Melo needs to find the open man, something he hasn't been doing as much. 

 

 

 

And c'mon Matt, even with your Melo hate, there's zero way you could ever say Melo doesn't like contact. There's nothing in his game where he shies away from it.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Amare looking good working the block today in practice.  Hopefully he can go back to giving a solid 15 minutes of the efficient basketball he was playing before he went down. 

 

 

For some reason the new vine 5 second videos are unable to embed. Worth checking out though.

 

https://vines.s3.amazonaws.com/v/videos/3BDF76A3-122F-409B-BE98-B81C2F49CDFD-427-000001285CB372B2_1.1.mp4?versionId=r_Kgcv0.AfSTmXoQk33olL5gMa9isTK4

[JustInFudge]

They've been running plenty of screens on and off the ball with Melo, especially when the Pacers are switching so often, so as to get David West guarding him instead of Paul George.  Watch on saturday, literally every time that Melo is being guarded by David West it's due to some variation of the pick n roll.  I'll agree with Matt that a lot of it ends up in ISO, but when you have David West on Melo, he should take it to him every single time, Westy just can't gaurd him.  The only problem is when Hibbert is in there, Melo needs to find the open man, something he hasn't been doing as much. 

 

 

 

And c'mon Matt, even with your Melo hate, there's zero way you could ever say Melo doesn't like contact. There's nothing in his game where he shies away from it.

 

Thats different than what I'm referring to, like you said, he picks to get a match-up for Iso.  He rarely is the on ball screener at the top of the key, where I believe he'd be unstoppable and would be able to create ball movement by attracting help as he gets to the open part of the court.  Kind of the way he had the one nice assist to JR in the corner.  That happened because Melo came free to an open court and 3 players started to converge.  If they dont, Melo has the option, to go to the rim or pull up, depending on where Hibbert is. 

 

Point being, they can do more but they dont.

[SayNoToDMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0BA2wFwAhLE

 

 

Woodson Summing up all our feelings

[T0mShane]

Heard the dumbest f*cking Francesa caller of all time today. He calls in and asks Francesa if he were starting an expansion team, would he pick Melo or Noah first overall. Francesa hems and haws, but finally says "Melo." The caller responds, "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL." Unreal. I'm not in love with Melo's game, but you take a scorer/rebounder like that every damn day over a spunky intangibles guy. Not even a discussion, IMO.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Heard the dumbest f*cking Francesa caller of all time today. He calls in and asks Francesa if he were starting an expansion team, would he pick Melo or Noah first overall. Francesa hems and haws, but finally says "Melo." The caller responds, "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL." Unreal. I'm not in love with Melo's game, but you take a scorer/rebounder like that every damn day over a spunky intangibles guy. Not even a discussion, IMO.

 

100%, not sure how it's even an argument.  I would even take fringe stars like Paul George or Klay Thompson over Noah.  If it's one thing we've seen in the NBA over the last, forever, is that when you need someone to get you a bucket or close out a game with a one or two possession lead, you need that go-to scorer and not someone like Chandler or Noah, as much as I like both of them.  It's the same reason why everyone laughed at Dwight Howard when he said he wanted to close out games by having the last possession; the guy who has no post-game and can't hit a free throw, wants to have the ball in his hands with the clock ticking down. Suree.

 

I absolutely love Noah's game, but no one plans to take him out of it offensively; if they did and he was the teams primary scorer, they would be in a hell of a lot of trouble.  I'd 100% love to have that type of guy on any team I'm rooting for or starting, but he's not the type of player you start a franchise with given the option of having someone with Melo's skillset.

[T0mShane]

100%, not sure how it's even an argument. I would even take fringe stars like Paul George or Klay Thompson over Noah. If it's one thing we've seen in the NBA over the last, forever, is that when you need someone to get you a bucket or close out a game with a one or two possession lead, you need that go-to scorer and not someone like Chandler or Noah, as much as I like both of them. It's the same reason why everyone laughed at Dwight Howard when he said he wanted to close out games by having the last possession; the guy who has no post-game and can't hit a free throw, wants to have the ball in his hands with the clock ticking down. Suree.

I absolutely love Noah's game, but no one plans to take him out of it offensively; if they did and he was the teams primary scorer, they would be in a hell of a lot of trouble. I'd 100% love to have that type of guy on any team I'm rooting for or starting, but he's not the type of player you start a franchise with given the option of having someone with Melo's skillset.

Word. Put Noah on the Bobcats and the Bobcats still suck. I'm guilty of it myself at times (because he's a frustrating player at times) but the Melo hate is reaching the 2011 Lebron hate.

[jason423]

Word. Put Noah on the Bobcats and the Bobcats still suck. I'm guilty of it myself at times (because he's a frustrating player at times) but the Melo hate is reaching the 2011 Lebron hate.

Ive always been a big Melo guy and I dont get most of the criticism. Part of the problem is the evolution of the game. In the past when the post type gets the ball and the shot isnt there they kick it out and then get it back.Its not like they were facilitating the offense elsewhere. It was always coming back to them just after they reset themselves. Now too many teams rely on the athleticism of the post to just hold the ball and create and create on his own. The end result is the same its just a different way of getting there. The fact that Melo isnt an athletic freak around the rim also makes people think less of him. I think finally people are waking up to the fact that Blake Griffin is Shawn Kemp 2.0, but before the season began people would say he was superior to Melo. Why?  Because he dunks the ball. There is no comparison between the two. James and Durant are the clear 1-2 but Melo is right in that next group and I think would probably be the third best in the NBA. I still wish the Nets would have gotten him. Hes a better player than Williams. I dont know who would have been the third guy if the Nets got Anthony but I doubt the team would have wasted the money on Johnson. They may have lured Williams over anyway or been in a position to make the trade for Paul (not sure how the cap would have worked if Melo came via trade). For anyone to even suggest Noah is in the same stratosphere as Melo is crazy. 

[T0mShane]

Ive always been a big Melo guy and I dont get most of the criticism. Part of the problem is the evolution of the game. In the past when the post type gets the ball and the shot isnt there they kick it out and then get it back.Its not like they were facilitating the offense elsewhere. It was always coming back to them just after they reset themselves. Now too many teams rely on the athleticism of the post to just hold the ball and create and create on his own. The end result is the same its just a different way of getting there. The fact that Melo isnt an athletic freak around the rim also makes people think less of him. I think finally people are waking up to the fact that Blake Griffin is Shawn Kemp 2.0, but before the season began people would say he was superior to Melo. Why? Because he dunks the ball. There is no comparison between the two. James and Durant are the clear 1-2 but Melo is right in that next group and I think would probably be the third best in the NBA. I still wish the Nets would have gotten him. Hes a better player than Williams. I dont know who would have been the third guy if the Nets got Anthony but I doubt the team would have wasted the money on Johnson. They may have lured Williams over anyway or been in a position to make the trade for Paul (not sure how the cap would have worked if Melo came via trade). For anyone to even suggest Noah is in the same stratosphere as Melo is crazy.

I gotta agree on Deron Williams. He checks out of more games than any point guard I've ever watched, and because he always has the ball in his hands, the team checks out with him. As annoying as Melo can be at times, his ability is undeniable. I'm not exactly sure I'd want to play on the same team as him, and any GM who has to build around him has a uniquely difficult task, but he is one of the most gifted players out there. Good point on the re-posting, too. That's a lost art.

That Billy King sacrificed that much cap space on Joe Johnson in order to placate Deron will probably be the rope that hangs him in the end.

[SMC]

Great points, Jason and T0m.

 

Also, Melo-DWill-Brooks wouldve been an excellent trio to build around.

 

Think about it.  If the Nets traded for Melo they wouldve given him an extension so they wouldve had the cap ability to still sign 1 more max player.  Walsh may have traded for DWill then, but he might not have leaving the opportunity for the Nets.  DWill would be better getting max money but having Melo shoulder the responsibility of being the franchise player. That mightve helped the check-out issues, T0m.

[Larz]

got party food for a basketball game

 

haven't done that in like ever

[SMC]

JR questionable for tonight's game with an "illness."  Woody says JR has 102 fever this morning.

 

Hate to be cynical, but this is like a Bengals/Stanley Wilson situation right now.

[jason423]

The Nets treatment of d-will the last few years was outrageous. I mean he played through nothing. He would just shut down and the Nets encouraged it. Melo said his knee hurt and people killed him. D-will missed portions of like two seasons with "not worth playing" type injuries. I actually think he was so mentally checked out from the last two seasons it impacted him this year. I think he had a hard time getting back into game mentality.

The Wallace and Johnson moves were such bad desperation. That's the bad side of having a guy with the rep of darth vader as the owner. He knows little about basketball but if you don't make some move he's going to just choke you to death without thinking twice. I can't believe any good coach will take the job. They are probably better off giving Ewing the job or getting some college coach

I gotta agree on Deron Williams. He checks out of more games than any point guard I've ever watched, and because he always has the ball in his hands, the team checks out with him. As annoying as Melo can be at times, his ability is undeniable. I'm not exactly sure I'd want to play on the same team as him, and any GM who has to build around him has a uniquely difficult task, but he is one of the most gifted players out there. Good point on the re-posting, too. That's a lost art.

That Billy King sacrificed that much cap space on Joe Johnson in order to placate Deron will probably be the rope that hangs him in the end.

[Larz]

JR questionable for tonight's game with an "illness."  Woody says JR has 102 fever this morning.

 

Hate to be cynical, but this is like a Bengals/Stanley Wilson situation right now.

 

 

I right there with you.  gonna try to stay positive

[JADEDGREEN]

Ouch!

[Matt39]

Is it just me or does Melo look bloated?

[rillo]

****!

[Larz]

whole team was flat.  these guys do better with short rest it seems.  JR needs a game off to decide what is important to him in his FA off season

[Larz]

the guards were 5 / 24 shooting

 

many were open shots.

 

but getting murdered on the glass was bad as well, esp all of the pacers offensive rebounds

 

I'm just gonna blame it on melo, it's easier that way

[unbanmadmike1]

When a JAG like Roy Hibbert is destroying your supposed franchise DPOY center, you're in deep deep sh*t. I can't see any way the Knicks win this series.