Geno Smith calls Sanchez a pretty good player

[T0mShane]

There is somebody still in awe over Ape's degree of understanding of football?

[dbatesman]

Sanchez may be the worst NFL player I have ever seen at any position ever. This guy is a career killer. Schottenheimer was considered a great young mind, was always talked about as a HC in the NFL. In comes Sanchez, 5 year setback at least. Sparano, HC, Sanchez, now I think he cleans toilets for some NFL team. WR's, good before Sanchez, destroyed after. I just pray that we get rid of Sanchez before he completely ruins Rex. Rex is the best coach this franchise has ever had, lets get rid of Sanchez before Rex goes too.

Now this guy, I like.

[ZachEY]

Sanchez's strengths?

[SenorGato]

Sanchez may be the worst NFL player I have  ever seen at any position ever. This guy is a career killer. Schottenheimer was considered a great young mind, was always talked about as a HC in the NFL. In comes Sanchez, 5 year setback at least. Sparano, HC, Sanchez, now I think he cleans toilets for some NFL team. WR's, good before Sanchez, destroyed after. I just pray that we get rid of Sanchez before he completely ruins Rex. Rex is the best coach this franchise has ever had, lets get rid of Sanchez before Rex goes too.

 

Why are you defending Schottenheimer? He was too predictable for Sanchez to succeed. He would run all the time rather than having a Balanced Attack and letting Sanchez unleash upon the league. 

 

If Sanchez was just given a chance - a great OL, a strong running game, a pass catching TE, a couple WRs, well designed plays, better planned games, and better called plays - then he might be one of the best players in the league. He has shown he can win in this league by almost winning us the chance to play in the SB twice! Ryan was just riding Sanchez those years and Sanchez just horsed this wins out like a bawss. 

[Smashmouth]

It's really not even a matter of knowing anything about football...

 

Yes it is. When you draft a QB with as valuable a pick as we did you get him skill players on offense, period. Even Cinncinati did it right with Dalton and they are still adding skill players. Matt Ryan has first round Draft picks at damn near every position and they also went and got him a HOF TE who has played lights out.

 

Your talking like Im suggesting the Jets add talent now for Sanchez and thats just not the case they have already done the damage to the young QB and if they handle Geno the same way we will get the same results.

 

Lets say Sanchez sh*ts the bed again (if he gets the starting nod) and Geno steps in and plays better and shows promise. What should be the Jets do next season ? Draft some top skill players for our young up and coming QB ? NAh **** that sh*t let Geno play with the jail birds, thugs, drunks and  Practice Squad players, he certainly can make them better Im sure another DT would not hurt much, **** lets wait till the 5th round to start bringing in WR's. What Im saying, should have been done for Sanchez should have happened 4 years ago before you even knew what you had in the QB, you get a young QB you then begin to surround that QB with talent to say otherwise is stupid.

[The Crusher]

Sanchez's strengths?

 

 

Good jaw line and high cheek bones.  

[Gastineau Lives]

And Im completely in AWE of how little you know about football. One of the greatest offenses of all time built around their QB's strengths and designed the offense for him. 1. By realizing he did npot have a big arm and 2 by surrounding him with all world talent . THATS the way you treat a so called franchise QB. Thats why I bother APE because whether or not Sanchez can turn it around (doubtful at this stage) the fact still remains hes playing with crap .... hes not tom Brady or Peyton Manning and he never will be nor will 90 % of the other QB's in the NFL so the teams that have half a brain surround their QB's with talent through the draft the Jets do not.

So, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, Dustin Kelller, Jerricho Cotchery, the NFL's best running game and three Pro Bowl offensive lineman wasn't enough huh?

 

When will we stop having this argument?

[Integrity28]

Yes it is. When you draft a QB with as valuable a pick as we did you get him skill players on offense, period. Even Cinncinati did it right with Dalton and they are still adding skill players. Matt Ryan has first round Draft picks at damn near every position and they also went and got him a HOF TE who has played lights out.

 

Your talking like Im suggesting the Jets add talent now for Sanchez and thats just not the case they have already done the damage to the young QB and if they handle Geno the same way we will get the same results.

 

Lets say Sanchez sh*ts the bed again (if he gets the starting nod) and Geno steps in and plays better and shows promise. What should be the Jets do next season ? Draft some top skill players for our young up and coming QB ? NAh **** that sh*t let Geno play with the jail birds, thugs, drunks and  Practice Squad players, he certainly can make them better Im sure another DT would not hurt much, **** lets wait till the 5th round to start bringing in WR's. What Im saying, should have been done for Sanchez should have happened 4 years ago before you even knew what you had in the QB, you get a young QB you then begin to surround that QB with talent to say otherwise is stupid.

 

No, it isn't doofus.

 

And yes, I'm talking like that ... because that is the impression you've given, over the course of 10+ posts. If I've misunderstood the point you are trying to make, then you've obviously delivered it wrong OR you are backpedalling now. The latter seems more fitting, given I know you are a capable communicator.

 

Bottom line is this... your premise is garbage, no matter which twist you are trying to exploit in the argument. When Sanchez was drafted we did put weapons around him. We built one of the best run games in football, gave him a great O-line, gave him a great defense, asked him not to throw too much and he had Keller, Cotchery, Holmes and Braylon to throw to. That's 3 proven veteran WRs and a 1st round TE. 

 

Sanchez still sucked. WITH weapons. The Jets didn't "mess him up" or "ruin him". He just had a lower ceiling than we all hoped for. Your tripe is nothing more than revisionist history. The only true point you make is the lack of talent around him last year dwindled, but that didn't "ruin" him... and we've got a new GM for that reason, amongst others, including Sanchez extension.

 

Back to the point you are avoiding, by trying to create a "you don't know anything about football debate shift"... you build around the QB, always, but it's the quality of the QB that determines the quality of the "build". To imply we didn't "build" around Sanchez is either naive or stupid.

 

In 4 years Sanchez showed that only with pro-bowlers and veterans around him can he play at an "average" level. 

 

In a case like that you want a GM who brings in other QB options, and builds from the inside-out. Idzik is doing just that, he has taken steps to give the QB (whoever it is) some of the same weapons Sanchez had early on: great defense, great offensive line and run game, don't ask QB to throw much.

 

He is putting the pieces in place to "build around" whoever the QB is. The first step he has taken, is the right step. Your tantrum about weapons is short-sighted, because you are overlooking this team's desperate need for foundation. We had to replace a lot of players this off-season. 

 

Nobody is going to argue that "you don't build around your QB", what we are arguing is that "you don't build around a sh*t QB" and that the "Jets didn't ruin Sanchez by not giving him weapons" and that "weapons aren't just WRs and TEs, but a run game, o-line and great d also, all things support the play of the QB".  

 

Thanks for wasting my time with this, you are ridiculous.

[slats]

The Jets would've been well served, and would've been serving Geno well, if they had gone out and brought in a high quality TE. The right guy at the TE position is a QB's best friend. Building a running game is fine and dandy, but a QB eventually has to throw the ball. A QB doesn't develop confidence on the field by handing the ball off, he develops it by completing passes.

Sanchez is shot now. He's done. But the argument that giving him better weapons could've made him better is valid. It's his psyche that's completely ****ed, not the physical tools - which he has. If on the rare occasion when he threw an accurate pass, that pass was actually completed, his confidence would've grown. When you're out there fumbling and throwing the ball into the stands on a regular basis, nothing is more demoralizing than a dropped pass when you finally hit a target.

Would he be good? I don't know. Great? I doubt it. But he'd be better.

My biggest problem with Geno (besides his tiny fumbling hands) are the knocks on his mental strength and maturity. He talks about being a perfectionist, which is not a good attribute for an NFL QB. The QB needs to bounce back from mistakes, not dwell on them. He was seen pouting on the sidelines before he was seen pouting at the draft. He's a person who's going to need early success to build himself up. He'll need a personal body of work as a foundation, to help him get thru tough times - which he will experience. Right now, I fear a lot of the same problems Sanchez encountered.

I really hope Hayden Smith is the white Antonio Gates.

[whodeawhodat]

We get it.  You're trying to argue that the personnel we have will not do for ANY quarterback we bring in, which is simply not true.  There are QB's who have walked into much worse situations than ours and had immediate success.  You're completely overrating the value of "weapons" to a QB's success.  

 

absolutely correct.  look at Garrard's "weapons" his last full season with the Jags.  Also went to a probowl with that cast.  very nice to have him on this team, hope he is rested and healthy

[The Crusher]

No, it isn't doofus.

 

And yes, I'm talking like that ... because that is the impression you've given, over the course of 10+ posts. If I've misunderstood the point you are trying to make, then you've obviously delivered it wrong OR you are backpedalling now. The latter seems more fitting, given I know you are a capable communicator.

 

Bottom line is this... your premise is garbage, no matter which twist you are trying to exploit in the argument. When Sanchez was drafted we did put weapons around him. We built one of the best run games in football, gave him a great O-line, gave him a great defense, asked him not to throw too much and he had Keller, Cotchery, Holmes and Braylon to throw to. That's 3 proven veteran WRs and a 1st round TE. 

 

Sanchez still sucked. WITH weapons. The Jets didn't "mess him up" or "ruin him". He just had a lower ceiling than we all hoped for. Your tripe is nothing more than revisionist history. The only true point you make is the lack of talent around him last year dwindled, but that didn't "ruin" him... and we've got a new GM for that reason, amongst others, including Sanchez extension.

 

Back to the point you are avoiding, by trying to create a "you don't know anything about football debate shift"... you build around the QB, always, but it's the quality of the QB that determines the quality of the "build". To imply we didn't "build" around Sanchez is either naive or stupid.

 

In 4 years Sanchez showed that only with pro-bowlers and veterans around him can he play at an "average" level. 

 

In a case like that you want a GM who brings in other QB options, and builds from the inside-out. Idzik is doing just that, he has taken steps to give the QB (whoever it is) some of the same weapons Sanchez had early on: great defense, great offensive line and run game, don't ask QB to throw much.

 

He is putting the pieces in place to "build around" whoever the QB is. The first step he has taken, is the right step. Your tantrum about weapons is short-sighted, because you are overlooking this team's desperate need for foundation. We had to replace a lot of players this off-season. 

 

Nobody is going to argue that "you don't build around your QB", what we are arguing is that "you don't build around a sh*t QB" and that the "Jets didn't ruin Sanchez by not giving him weapons" and that "weapons aren't just WRs and TEs, but a run game, o-line and great d also, all things support the play of the QB".  

 

Thanks for wasting my time with this, you are ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

Holy cow monkey.  Very well said.  

[The Crusher]

The Jets would've been well served, and would've been serving Geno well, if they had gone out and brought in a high quality TE. The right guy at the TE position is a QB's best friend. Building a running game is fine and dandy, but a QB eventually has to throw the ball. A QB doesn't develop confidence on the field by handing the ball off, he develops it by completing passes.

Sanchez is shot now. He's done. But the argument that giving him better weapons could've made him better is valid. It's his psyche that's completely ****ed, not the physical tools - which he has. If on the rare occasion when he threw an accurate pass, that pass was actually completed, his confidence would've grown. When you're out there fumbling and throwing the ball into the stands on a regular basis, nothing is more demoralizing than a dropped pass when you finally hit a target.

Would he be good? I don't know. Great? I doubt it. But he'd be better.

My biggest problem with Geno (besides his tiny fumbling hands) are the knocks on his mental strength and maturity. He talks about being a perfectionist, which is not a good attribute for an NFL QB. The QB needs to bounce back from mistakes, not dwell on them. He was seen pouting on the sidelines before he was seen pouting at the draft. He's a person who's going to need early success to build himself up. He'll need a personal body of work as a foundation, to help him get thru tough times - which he will experience. Right now, I fear a lot of the same problems Sanchez encountered.

I really hope Hayden Smith is the white Antonio Gates.

 

 

 

Also very good points.  This is why I would like to see Garrard or someone else start off the season to let Geno sit a little and get a feel for what to expect.  Then get him in half way through to see if he at least has some of what he will need to succeed.  Then either go for the franchise QB next year or a stud TE and some nice WR for him.  It's the beauty of him falling to us and not reaching for him.  As Sanchez showed us not all QB's are destined to be franchise starters.  At least this time we did not extend for mediocrity if that's what Geno happens to be.  

[Jetsfan80]

Also very good points.  This is why I would like to see Garrard or someone else start off the season to let Geno sit a little and get a feel for what to expect.  Then get him in half way through to see if he at least has some of what he will need to succeed.  Then either go for the franchise QB next year or a stud TE and some nice WR for him.  It's the beauty of him falling to us and not reaching for him.  As Sanchez showed us not all QB's are destined to be franchise starters.  At least this time we did not extend for mediocrity if that's what Geno happens to be.  

 

Yup.  Clearly if Idzik was willing to just sit back at 39 to take Geno, a much different scenario than moving up to 5 for Sanchez, then it's clear he wasn't expecting to invest everything the franchise has in the guy.  We'll see how it all plays out. 

 

I hope we draft a QB every season because this kind of offseason discussion makes me aroused.  We'll have like 37 picks next year so I expect we will in 2014 at some point whether Geno looks good or not.

[The Crusher]

Yup.  Clearly if Idzik was willing to just sit back at 39 to take Geno, a much different scenario than moving up to 5 for Sanchez, then it's clear he wasn't expecting to invest everything the franchise has in the guy.  We'll see how it all plays out. 

 

I hope we draft a QB every season because this kind of offseason discussion makes me aroused.  We'll have like 37 picks next year so I expect we will in 2014 at some point whether Geno looks good or not.

 

 

At the direction the league is going pretty sure that will be the new norm.  Take a QB  until you find your franchise guy.  Pretty sure the days of the "game manager" QB are passing us by.  Just look how late it was before anyone broke the seal this year on running backs.  Wasn;t that long ago a couple two three would go in the top ten and that retard Ditka traded the farm for one.  This is now a QB league and until you get one you have ZERO chance.  

[Smashmouth]

No, it isn't doofus.

 

And yes, I'm talking like that ... because that is the impression you've given, over the course of 10+ posts. If I've misunderstood the point you are trying to make, then you've obviously delivered it wrong OR you are backpedalling now. The latter seems more fitting, given I know you are a capable communicator.

 

Not back pedeling at all my stance has been consistent for years and I warned this would happen when we first drafted Sanchez. Whether or not he was destined to be great or sh*t we handled it wrong.

Bottom line is this... your premise is garbage, no matter which twist you are trying to exploit in the argument. When Sanchez was drafted we did put weapons around him. We built one of the best run games in football, gave him a great O-line, gave him a great defense, asked him not to throw too much and he had Keller, Cotchery, Holmes and Braylon to throw to. That's 3 proven veteran WRs and a 1st round TE. 

 

The O-line and running game were in place but they were in place when Sanchez (with 16 college starts was a rookie) You make it sound as if we built this offense for him which we did not. He went into his first season WITHOUT Braylon or Holmes (not that they are anything great) Braylon did not play until week four when he was traded to the Jets because the Jets failed to upgrade the WR position for the newly aquired franchise QB. I happen to like Braylon but you clowns make it sound like the guy was an incredible player when in fact he was playing very poorly at the time in Cleveland which is why they traded him in the first place. He had attitude problems and off the field problems WELL DOCUMENTED. In year 2 the Jets grab nothing in the draft again and get the next trouble maker in Holmes who just happens to be serving a 4 game suspension So in year one Sanchez had to wait for a WR to adapt to the offense on the Fly and had to do the same in year 2 While he didnt play great by any means he did start to show he could cut down the turnovers with only 13 ints and 17 TDs He was actully Improving by a small amount but none the less Improving.

Sanchez still sucked. WITH weapons. The Jets didn't "mess him up" or "ruin him". He just had a lower ceiling than we all hoped for. Your tripe is nothing more than revisionist history. The only true point you make is the lack of talent around him last year dwindled, but that didn't "ruin" him... and we've got a new GM for that reason, amongst others, including Sanchez extension.

 

Back to the point you are avoiding, by trying to create a "you don't know anything about football debate shift"... you build around the QB, always, but it's the quality of the QB that determines the quality of the "build". To imply we didn't "build" around Sanchez is either naive or stupid.

 

Once again Is Derrik Mason at 38 and Plaxico at 35 fresh out of Jail to go along with Holmes the other loud mouth something you call good ?? Oh and the character guy Cotch is now dumped because the Jets just had to Sign another reject in Mason who was dumped in week four after a 90 catch Rex Ryan Prediction. The 2 WR's who really stepped up in the playoffs the following year Cotch and Braylon were sent packing. So once again Sanchez has to adapt to a new WR in Plaxico. Yeah I can see all this building the Jets did with players that wer lucky to have a year left in them if that much. Only think Plaxico was good for was the redzone and Sanchez did utilize that by hitting him with 8 TD Passes in the redzone.

In 4 years Sanchez showed that only with pro-bowlers and veterans around him can he play at an "average" level. 

 

In year 4 as the team continued to regress now getting rid of Plaxico and drafting a project in Stephen Hill and fresh off a Holmes crybaby meltdown ,,,Sanchez loses his TE ... Homes Gets Hurt and Hill gets hurt after dropping every other ball. The Jets have NOTHING in the WR dept. But Practice Squad players RB's who cant catch and and offensive line that can't block since those players who left were replced with half assed cast offs once again. It was a bad refelction on good players like Mangold that this team could not even run the football anymore. So what did we have in year 4 ? Cumberland and Aussie TE in Smith a few practice Squad WR's and a stable of RB's who not only could not catch but they could not run either and all this is a QB's dream. I laughed when some here thought Peyton Manning would have even considered coming to this football team and I bet Peyton had a good laugh as well when the Jets came into the mix.

In a case like that you want a GM who brings in other QB options, and builds from the inside-out. Idzik is doing just that, he has taken steps to give the QB (whoever it is) some of the same weapons Sanchez had early on: great defense, great offensive line and run game, don't ask QB to throw much.

 

He is putting the pieces in place to "build around" whoever the QB is. The first step he has taken, is the right step. Your tantrum about weapons is short-sighted, because you are overlooking this team's desperate need for foundation. We had to replace a lot of players this off-season. 

 

I said nothing about Idzik or how he is currently building this football team. I think he is doing what needs to be done. Address the offensive line issues and move on to the skill players next year in the draft. I like The additions of Ivory and Goodson and in all honesty I think Idzik gets it and will do a fine Job. Bradway and Tannenbaums obvious gafs should not reflect on Idzik at all in what Im saying here.

Nobody is going to argue that "you don't build around your QB", what we are arguing is that "you don't build around a sh*t QB" and that the "Jets didn't ruin Sanchez by not giving him weapons" and that "weapons aren't just WRs and TEs, but a run game, o-line and great d also, all things support the play of the QB".  

 

Thanks for wasting my time with this, you are ridiculous.

 

Once again saying you 'dont build around a sh*t QB' is stupid, no actully its ignorant. Are you saying because you have a sh*t QB you dont get good skill players on offense because the QB is sh*t ? LOL this is beyond ridiculous.

 

Example of the stupid this comment you made is .... if great skill players are availanle to the Jets they should not pick them because our QB is sh*t ?? I wonder if I say that over and over the stupidity of the comment will sink into your monkey brain.

 

Also ONCE AGAIN while I did not want to get into another Sanchez pissing match but here I am. Most think Just because Sanchez sucks it excuses stupid comments on how a team should be built. Most here, if not all, recognise the importance of a QB, so all should recognise the importance of building around said QB whether it be Sanchez four years ago or Geno Smith now. So because I point out those issues I get attacked by people who simply HATE Mark Sanchez and assume Im simply sticking up for him and not thinking this thing out. Sanchez may very well not be the guy, thats about 90 % sure right now, I think we will be moving on to Geno sooner rather than later I just hope the same bullsh*t does not plague him.

 

Plenty of teams in the NFL know how to build around a franchise QB take the time to look them up Colts, Falcons, 49ers, Saints, Redskins, Bengals, Ravens and then compare those teams and those players to the Jets bunch of Braylon, Holmes, Mason (38),and Plaxico (34 and out of football for 2 years) What most see as ridiculous is this cast of characters and nothing at RB as well.

[slats]

Also very good points.  This is why I would like to see Garrard or someone else start off the season to let Geno sit a little and get a feel for what to expect.  Then get him in half way through to see if he at least has some of what he will need to succeed.  Then either go for the franchise QB next year or a stud TE and some nice WR for him.  It's the beauty of him falling to us and not reaching for him.  As Sanchez showed us not all QB's are destined to be franchise starters.  At least this time we did not extend for mediocrity if that's what Geno happens to be.  

This is exactly how I hope this year goes. The trick is deciding whether they'll need to shoot for the franchise QB next year or not. I hope that spending a second rounder on Geno isn't the deciding factor. I don't think it should be.

If they opt to move on from Rex, that'll have a major impact on the QB position, too.

[The Crusher]

This is exactly how I hope this year goes. The trick is deciding whether they'll need to shoot for the franchise QB next year or not. I hope that spending a second rounder on Geno isn't the deciding factor. I don't think it should be.

If they opt to move on from Rex, that'll have a major impact on the QB position, too.

 

 

Exactly.  If I had to guess... it's not.  *chubby fingers crossed*

 

I think Geno plays at a good level I think Rex has a better chance of staying.

[Integrity28]

Not back pedeling at all my stance has been consistent for years and I warned this would happen when we first drafted Sanchez. Whether or not he was destined to be great or sh*t we handled it wrong.

 

The O-line and running game were in place but they were in place when Sanchez (with 16 college starts was a rookie) You make it sound as if we built this offense for him which we did not. He went into his first season WITHOUT Braylon or Holmes (not that they are anything great) Braylon did not play until week four when he was traded to the Jets because the Jets failed to upgrade the WR position for the newly aquired franchise QB. I happen to like Braylon but you clowns make it sound like the guy was an incredible player when in fact he was playing very poorly at the time in Cleveland which is why they traded him in the first place. He had attitude problems and off the field problems WELL DOCUMENTED. In year 2 the Jets grab nothing in the draft again and get the next trouble maker in Holmes who just happens to be serving a 4 game suspension So in year one Sanchez had to wait for a WR to adapt to the offense on the Fly and had to do the same in year 2 While he didnt play great by any means he did start to show he could cut down the turnovers with only 13 ints and 17 TDs He was actully Improving by a small amount but none the less Improving.

 

Once again Is Derrik Mason at 38 and Plaxico at 35 fresh out of Jail to go along with Holmes the other loud mouth something you call good ?? Oh and the character guy Cotch is now dumped because the Jets just had to Sign another reject in Mason who was dumped in week four after a 90 catch Rex Ryan Prediction. The 2 WR's who really stepped up in the playoffs the following year Cotch and Braylon were sent packing. So once again Sanchez has to adapt to a new WR in Plaxico. Yeah I can see all this building the Jets did with players that wer lucky to have a year left in them if that much. Only think Plaxico was good for was the redzone and Sanchez did utilize that by hitting him with 8 TD Passes in the redzone.

 

In year 4 as the team continued to regress now getting rid of Plaxico and drafting a project in Stephen Hill and fresh off a Holmes crybaby meltdown ,,,Sanchez loses his TE ... Homes Gets Hurt and Hill gets hurt after dropping every other ball. The Jets have NOTHING in the WR dept. But Practice Squad players RB's who cant catch and and offensive line that can't block since those players who left were replced with half assed cast offs once again. It was a bad refelction on good players like Mangold that this team could not even run the football anymore. So what did we have in year 4 ? Cumberland and Aussie TE in Smith a few practice Squad WR's and a stable of RB's who not only could not catch but they could not run either and all this is a QB's dream. I laughed when some here thought Peyton Manning would have even considered coming to this football team and I bet Peyton had a good laugh as well when the Jets came into the mix.

 

I said nothing about Idzik or how he is currently building this football team. I think he is doing what needs to be done. Address the offensive line issues and move on to the skill players next year in the draft. I like The additions of Ivory and Goodson and in all honesty I think Idzik gets it and will do a fine Job. Bradway and Tannenbaums obvious gafs should not reflect on Idzik at all in what Im saying here.

 

Once again saying you 'dont build around a sh*t QB' is stupid, no actully its ignorant. Are you saying because you have a sh*t QB you dont get good skill players on offense because the QB is sh*t ? LOL this is beyond ridiculous.

 

Example of the stupid this comment you made is .... if great skill players are availanle to the Jets they should not pick them because our QB is sh*t ?? I wonder if I say that over and over the stupidity of the comment will sink into your monkey brain.

 

Also ONCE AGAIN while I did not want to get into another Sanchez pissing match but here I am. Most think Just because Sanchez sucks it excuses stupid comments on how a team should be built. Most here, if not all, recognise the importance of a QB, so all should recognise the importance of building around said QB whether it be Sanchez four years ago or Geno Smith now. So because I point out those issues I get attacked by people who simply HATE Mark Sanchez and assume Im simply sticking up for him and not thinking this thing out. Sanchez may very well not be the guy, thats about 90 % sure right now, I think we will be moving on to Geno sooner rather than later I just hope the same bullsh*t does not plague him.

 

Plenty of teams in the NFL know how to build around a franchise QB take the time to look them up Colts, Falcons, 49ers, Saints, Redskins, Bengals, Ravens and then compare those teams and those players to the Jets bunch of Braylon, Holmes, Mason (38),and Plaxico (34 and out of football for 2 years) What most see as ridiculous is this cast of characters and nothing at RB as well.

 

Smash, you are ridiculous.

 

You are putting qualifiers on your argument that do not pertain to the situation the Jets are in, or have been in for 4 years.

 

QBs become franchise QBs, they do not start out that way. You can't make the argument that we didn't surround our franchise QB with talent, when Sanchez came into a situation with talent around him - and he never achieved a level of play that would qualify as "franchise QB" caliber. He did not become a franchise QB, in fact he got worse over time, not because of a lack of weapons, but because of a lack of talent and skill. It's something he had to do on his own. There was talent around him, and he never played above average with them. As the talent got worse, he was exposed. Nobody here denies the talent go worse, so your petty references to Derrick Mason and Plax are silly. Plax contributed, and Mason was cut. We all know they sucked. Sanchez started with better players around him in all aspects. Sanchez never ascended above "game manager who just needs to not lose the game for the Jets defense and run game".

 

No matter the talent around him, when Sanchez is called on to make throws and decisions, he fails more than he succeeds. He is not a franchise QB. It's not the fault of the Jets for "not building around him". It's simply just a case of him not being what we all hoped he was. 

 

You want to talk about franchise QBs and point to what other franchises do and have done... yet you ignore the one key aspect that makes your comparisons irrelevant. The other teams had QBs that played good to great, and thus were able to stop searching for a QB and put their attention on assembling the rest of the team around their QB. We don't have that... so step 1 under Idzik is "find a QB". Step 2 is "support whoever the QB is with an O-line, rush attack, and great defense". Step 3 will be "find playmakers wherever you can".

 

Step 3 is what your tantrum is about, but you don't seem to understand that the other things had to come first. You also don't seem to understand that you can't just "get" all these playmakers, if they aren't available to you.

 

So, when do you think you'll be doing the old "I was trolling you guys all along" thing?

[Integrity28]

This is exactly how I hope this year goes. The trick is deciding whether they'll need to shoot for the franchise QB next year or not. I hope that spending a second rounder on Geno isn't the deciding factor. I don't think it should be.

If they opt to move on from Rex, that'll have a major impact on the QB position, too.

 

I think Idzik comes from the school of thought that you can never have enough QBs on your roster. I hope.

[Smashmouth]

Smash, you are ridiculous.

 

You are putting qualifiers on your argument that do not pertain to the situation the Jets are in, or have been in for 4 years.

 

QBs become franchise QBs, they do not start out that way. You can't make the argument that we didn't surround our franchise QB with talent, when Sanchez came into a situation with talent around him - and he never achieved a level of play that would qualify as "franchise QB" caliber. He did not become a franchise QB, in fact he got worse over time, not because of a lack of weapons, but because of a lack of talent and skill. It's something he had to do on his own. There was talent around him, and he never played above average with them. As the talent got worse, he was exposed. Nobody here denies the talent go worse, so your petty references to Derrick Mason and Plax are silly. Plax contributed, and Mason was cut. We all know they sucked. Sanchez started with better players around him in all aspects. Sanchez never ascended above "game manager who just needs to not lose the game for the Jets defense and run game".

 

No matter the talent around him, when Sanchez is called on to make throws and decisions, he fails more than he succeeds. He is not a franchise QB. It's not the fault of the Jets for "not building around him". It's simply just a case of him not being what we all hoped he was. 

 

You want to talk about franchise QBs and point to what other franchises do and have done... yet you ignore the one key aspect that makes your comparisons irrelevant. The other teams had QBs that played good to great, and thus were able to stop searching for a QB and put their attention on assembling the rest of the team around their QB. We don't have that... so step 1 under Idzik is "find a QB". Step 2 is "support whoever the QB is with an O-line, rush attack, and great defense". Step 3 will be "find playmakers wherever you can".

 

Step 3 is what your tantrum is about, but you don't seem to understand that the other things had to come first. You also don't seem to understand that you can't just "get" all these playmakers, if they aren't available to you.

 

So, when do you think you'll be doing the old "I was trolling you guys all along" thing?

 

first off lets not refer to this as a tantrum. The only people having a tantrum are the absolute Sanchez haters. The stuff I laid out are facts in the developement of Mark Sanchez in the four years on the Jets based on talent around him which I consider to be minimal at best ALONG with the baggage players like Holmes Braylon and Mason bring.

 

You read my original posts and claim Im ridiculous to which I respond with why you have no idea wtf your taking about based on how to build around a QB. Im not saying if Sanchez did have talent arounf him he would miraculously turned out great because thats an unknown. But for you to come in this thread and claim the Jets have or had talent capable of being a contending offense or being good enough for a young QB is whats ridiculous.

 

Its really funny when people in this very forum talk about our offense most talk about the lack of talent .....Bring Sanchez into the arguement and all of a sudden we have pro bowlers or better yet people try to justify that the talent really isnt that bad its just all about Sanchez sucking. Its comical and sometimes I think you do this just to work me up, but all is well ....I'll just sit back and see if the Jets use the same moronic methods of building a team they have failed with for the past 25 + years.

 

You like Geno ? You better hope this team gets some players around him.

[Integrity28]

first off lets not refer to this as a tantrum. The only people having a tantrum are the absolute Sanchez haters. The stuff I laid out are facts in the developement of Mark Sanchez in the four years on the Jets based on talent around him which I consider to be minimal at best ALONG with the baggage players like Holmes Braylon and Mason bring.

 

You read my original posts and claim Im ridiculous to which I respond with why you have no idea wtf your taking about based on how to build around a QB. Im not saying if Sanchez did have talent arounf him he would miraculously turned out great because thats an unknown. But for you to come in this thread and claim the Jets have or had talent capable of being a contending offense or being good enough for a young QB is whats ridiculous.

 

Its really funny when people in this very forum talk about our offense most talk about the lack of talent .....Bring Sanchez into the arguement and all of a sudden we have pro bowlers or better yet people try to justify that the talent really isnt that bad its just all about Sanchez sucking. Its comical and sometimes I think you do this just to work me up, but all is well ....I'll just sit back and see if the Jets use the same moronic methods of building a team they have failed with for the past 25 + years. 

 

You like Geno ? You better hope this team gets some players around him.

 

Okay, you aren't having a tantrum.

 

First bold line: You ARE saying that Sanchez had no talent around him, and whether you realize it or not, you are implying that if he had, he wouldn't have turned out so awful. Re-read your posts dude. You have a tendency to get so close to your argument you can't look at your statements objectively, and don't see what you may and may not be implying. I'm only responding to that. Maybe it's not purposeful, dunno. Sanchez came into the Jets to a situation where one of the top run games was assembled around him, top defense, he was given veteran and high draft pick WRs and TEs to throw to. He was given Ladanian to throw to. He had TALENT around him and he played his best with that talent, but it still wasn't great. Geno is coming into a very similar situation, specifically the running game and defense. The only thing we haven't put around Geno yet, that Mark had, is a first-round TE. To be honest, that doesn't matter much. 

 

Second bold line: If your only point is "you'd better hope they build around Geno the right way" then why reference Sanchez? Don't we all hope for that? I agree with the sentiment, and have every bit of confidence that they will given the impact Idzik has already had, but the Sanchez comparison is wrong. That's the crux of the argument. Sanchez was never talented enough to be a "franchise QB" and he was built around, and he never matriculated. The reason the talent around him dissipated was because Tanny mismanaged the cap and whiffed on talent early on to try to go all-in. I don't care to argue it much more, but Sanchez was surrounded by pro-bowlers early on, Brick, Mangold, T-Rich, LT, others made it, I'm not looking it all up. The notion that you have to have pro-bowlers at every position to "create" a franchise QB is dumb. It's usually vice-versa, get the right QB, and he'll put his skill players in the pro-bowl.

 

We don't have to talk about it any more. Look at Idzy gutting the front office... ooohhh baby!!!! 

[Smashmouth]

Okay, you aren't having a tantrum.

 

First bold line: You ARE saying that Sanchez had no talent around him, and whether you realize it or not, you are implying that if he had, he wouldn't have turned out so awful. Re-read your posts dude. You have a tendency to get so close to your argument you can't look at your statements objectively, and don't see what you may and may not be implying. I'm only responding to that. Maybe it's not purposeful, dunno. Sanchez came into the Jets to a situation where one of the top run games was assembled around him, top defense, he was given veteran and high draft pick WRs and TEs to throw to. He was given Ladanian to throw to. He had TALENT around him and he played his best with that talent, but it still wasn't great. Geno is coming into a very similar situation, specifically the running game and defense. The only thing we haven't put around Geno yet, that Mark had, is a first-round TE. To be honest, that doesn't matter much. 

 

Second bold line: If your only point is "you'd better hope they build around Geno the right way" then why reference Sanchez? Don't we all hope for that? I agree with the sentiment, and have every bit of confidence that they will given the impact Idzik has already had, but the Sanchez comparison is wrong. That's the crux of the argument. Sanchez was never talented enough to be a "franchise QB" and he was built around, and he never matriculated. The reason the talent around him dissipated was because Tanny mismanaged the cap and whiffed on talent early on to try to go all-in. I don't care to argue it much more, but Sanchez was surrounded by pro-bowlers early on, Brick, Mangold, T-Rich, LT, others made it, I'm not looking it all up. The notion that you have to have pro-bowlers at every position to "create" a franchise QB is dumb. It's usually vice-versa, get the right QB, and he'll put his skill players in the pro-bowl.

 

We don't have to talk about it any more. Look at Idzy gutting the front office... ooohhh baby!!!! 

 

 

All fair points APE but in respect to whether or not I thought Sanchez would do good with more talent I pretty much state thats an unknown.

 

In respect to Sanchez I think the kid has a lot of talent, BUT whatever is in his head that keeps him from taking steps in a positive direction is his biggest issue by far. His lack of protecting the football, his lack of being decisive, and what seems to be his lack of taking charge are all very bad traits you hope a young QB can overcome. Some are naturals, some take a few years some NEVER overcome it and those are the guys who never make it in this league. Sanchez falls under the last mentioned and may never make it in this league.  

 

As for the talent around Sanchez sure it was a good running game the first 2 years but that deteriorated in years 3 and 4 as did the O-line play in the years we expected Sanchez to come out of his rookie problems. He was playing good in the beginning of year 3 and at one point had 21 TD's and 10 int's then it all feel apart ....They said he was hurt but we have no basis as to how much it affected him and he does not seem to be one to make excueses so we may never know. He threw a good deep ball early on then all of a sudden stopped throwing deep and that TBH totally baffles me because if anything opens up a running game its the deep pass. I wonder why the Jets went away from this very basic option. I have a ton of Questions about how and why the Jets run their offense the way they do maybe with Monhinwig it will be different we will just have to wait an see and thats NOT in reference to Sanchez just an over all observation on that last part.

 

When it comes to Dustin Keller and how he was a first round receiver for this team and for Sanchez I believe there is a very good reason why hes no longer a member of the Jets hes not a complete player, hes a pussy and he can't block to save his life. Now hes gone and he certainly was never great. Jag if you ask me.

 

Also the guys you all seem to mention a lot LT PLAX EDWARDS MASON KELLER are no longer on the team they were not here to help build they were bandaids and bad ones at that and thats why four of them are not even in the league anymore cause they are old and finished.

[Integrity28]

All fair points APE but in respect to whether or not I thought Sanchez would do good with more talent I pretty much state thats an unknown.

 

In respect to Sanchez I think the kid has a lot of talent, BUT whatever is in his head that keeps him from taking steps in a positive direction is his biggest issue by far. His lack of protecting the football, his lack of being decisive, and what seems to be his lack of taking charge are all very bad traits you hope a young QB can overcome. Some are naturals, some take a few years some NEVER overcome it and those are the guys who never make it in this league. Sanchez falls under the last mentioned and may never make it in this league.  

 

As for the talent around Sanchez sure it was a good running game the first 2 years but that deteriorated in years 3 and 4 as did the O-line play in the years we expected Sanchez to come out of his rookie problems. He was playing good in the beginning of year 3 and at one point had 21 TD's and 10 int's then it all feel apart ....They said he was hurt but we have no basis as to how much it affected him and he does not seem to be one to make excueses so we may never know. He threw a good deep ball early on then all of a sudden stopped throwing deep and that TBH totally baffles me because if anything opens up a running game its the deep pass. I wonder why the Jets went away from this very basic option. I have a ton of Questions about how and why the Jets run their offense the way they do maybe with Monhinwig it will be different we will just have to wait an see and thats NOT in reference to Sanchez just an over all observation on that last part.

 

When it comes to Dustin Keller and how he was a first round receiver for this team and for Sanchez I believe there is a very good reason why hes no longer a member of the Jets hes not a complete player, hes a pussy and he can't block to save his life. Now hes gone and he certainly was never great. Jag if you ask me.

 

Also the guys you all seem to mention a lot LT PLAX EDWARDS MASON KELLER are no longer on the team they were not here to help build they were bandaids and bad ones at that and thats why four of them are not even in the league anymore cause they are old and finished.

 

Holy sh*t.

 

You already said elsewhere you think Sanchez sucks. Now he has talent, but the problem is buried in some other hyperbole.

 

I already said Sanchez came into a situation that deteriorated, you are repeating back to me my points. I also explained why it appeared to deteriorate, in some ways it's because Tanny whiffed on FA and draft picks, and in other ways it's because the QB couldn't do his job. Of course a WR is going to look awful if the QB can't get him the ball. Thanks.

 

Glad you have hindsight to weigh in on Keller, the reality is they drafted a 1st round TE to give Sanchez a weapon. Sanchez didn't get better, and neither did Keller. But they tried to give him the weapon, which IS building around the QB. You are just avoiding acknowledging that by bashing Keller. 

 

You can't look back and say "they didn't put guys around him" when they did, it just panned out that the QB sucked and so did most of the players chosen to support him in the later years. In his first couple years, his supporting cast was fine and they up-leveled his play somewhat. Which is why many of us thought he was legit.

 

Your entire premise is that the Jets don't build around their QB, and you've weaved in and out of qualifiers and side-arguments to muddle this... but that was your initial point yeah? The Jets gave the job 100% to Sanchez and put players around him year after year, that is building around the QB. They just didn't have the right QB, or players dude. That is why the FO is being gutted. LOL, sheesh... 

[Integrity28]

I'm bowing out of this. My points have been made, and are pretty pure observational, not opinion or spin... you are talking yourself in circles you goofball... classic Smash.

[ZachEY]

Step 3 is what your tantrum is about, but you don't seem to understand that the other things had to come first. You also don't seem to understand that you can't just "get" all these playmakers, if they aren't available to you.

 

This is what I'd like to know... In the last 3 or 4 years, with the power of hindsight, what offensive playmakers did we pass on that were drafted within the next 10-15 picks?

 

I keep hearing about AJ Green and Julio Jones in conversations like this, who were picked at 2 and 6 in a year when the Jets had 30 (Wilkerson, not bad) and no 2nd and the 94th pick in the draft.

Is Kendall Wright the difference maker we are missing?  AJ Jenkins?  Brian Quick?  Arrelious Benn?

[Smashmouth]

I'm bowing out of this. My points have been made, and are pretty pure observational, not opinion or spin... you are talking yourself in circles you goofball... classic Smash.

 

dude relax with the over reaction .... your going berserk because I said Sanchez has the physical talent to be a QB and mention I said in another post that he sucks. When it comes to playing QB its certainly not all about physical talent so Im not sure why your reacting to me saying he has talent. The biggest obstacle for a QB is the mental part of the game, this much is obvious, so why so thrown a back at my mention of physical talent an me pointing out most of his issues are mental ?

 

Im not weaving in and out of anything APE not in the least. Your just flipping out over issues I assume are common knowledge. The Jets handled a bad situation with bandaids some receivers take time to adapt to a system a team and a QB and vice versa but I guess in your world its ok to bring in old washed up castoffs and think thats building when in fact its stupid to bring those type of guys into an offense that has not even established itself with its new QB.  In the case of Keller He was brought in the year BEFORE Sanchez got here so NO they did not get him for Mark Sanchez

 

Example of what Im saying goes like this. All hypothetical of course .... Its 2004 and Peyton Manning has a firm grip on the Colts offense and hes developed as have his WR's they know the offense inside and out but they need a redzone presence since they feel that can get them a SB ....Thats the kind of team that can add a Plaxico Burress He comes in and works withn a system that already fucntions at a high level. The Jets played their cards like Sanchez had a firm grip on the offense and his teammates by changing bandaids every year the kid has been here and you cant seem to see that.... you just claim adding these players who may or may not last a freakin year while running their mouths is a good idea for a young QB's development.

[Smashmouth]

This is what I'd like to know... In the last 3 or 4 years, with the power of hindsight, what offensive playmakers did we pass on that were drafted within the next 10-15 picks?

 

I keep hearing about AJ Green and Julio Jones in conversations like this, who were picked at 2 and 6 in a year when the Jets had 30 (Wilkerson, not bad) and no 2nd and the 94th pick in the draft.

Is Kendall Wright the difference maker we are missing?  AJ Jenkins?  Brian Quick?  Arrelious Benn?

 

maybe we need to add some of the free agents to this scenario as well ....young ones like Brandon Marshall or 4 years ago Anquain Boldin maybe a few Receiving backs

[ZachEY]

maybe we need to add some of the free agents to this scenario as well ....young ones like Brandon Marshall or 4 years ago Anquain Boldin maybe a few Receiving backs

 

The fact that you passed on the entire draft conversation is noted...

 

Brandon Marhsall was not affordable for us at the time he was a free agent and Boldin was a trade, not a free agent.

 

Please name the receiving backs that we could have had, both financially or because of our draft position.

 

The problem with your argument is there are no names that make sense.  I'd like to have Playmaker X too, but you can't just conjure him.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Sanchez was given every chance to be successful. He was given a great defense, and a great running game, and good enough receivers. Most QB's don't get anywhere near that much, it's time to accept the fact that he is not talented, never was talented, and was a product of USC, not actually good. Now I cannot wait for June 1st, when he will be off our team, and maybe out of the league, yes, he is that bad.

[Integrity28]

dude relax with the over reaction .... your going berserk because I said Sanchez has the physical talent to be a QB and mention I said in another post that he sucks. When it comes to playing QB its certainly not all about physical talent so Im not sure why your reacting to me saying he has talent. The biggest obstacle for a QB is the mental part of the game, this much is obvious, so why so thrown a back at my mention of physical talent an me pointing out most of his issues are mental ?

 

Im not weaving in and out of anything APE not in the least. Your just flipping out over issues I assume are common knowledge. The Jets handled a bad situation with bandaids some receivers take time to adapt to a system a team and a QB and vice versa but I guess in your world its ok to bring in old washed up castoffs and think thats building when in fact its stupid to bring those type of guys into an offense that has not even established itself with its new QB.  In the case of Keller He was brought in the year BEFORE Sanchez got here so NO they did not get him for Mark Sanchez

 

Example of what Im saying goes like this. All hypothetical of course .... Its 2004 and Peyton Manning has a firm grip on the Colts offense and hes developed as have his WR's they know the offense inside and out but they need a redzone presence since they feel that can get them a SB ....Thats the kind of team that can add a Plaxico Burress He comes in and works withn a system that already fucntions at a high level. The Jets played their cards like Sanchez had a firm grip on the offense and his teammates by changing bandaids every year the kid has been here and you cant seem to see that.... you just claim adding these players who may or may not last a freakin year while running their mouths is a good idea for a young QB's development.

 

 

Yeah, I'm going berserk. LOL

 

I'm just stepping away from an argument because I know better than to waste my time rehashing extremely valid points, against your ongoing pliable position and grasping at straws. Yup, definitely berserk. Me.

 

Here is the time of pathetic you are putting on display, in a nutshell... You said Sanchez was never surrounded with weapons, and I said he walked into a situation where he had plenty of investment in weapons, and as one example I pointed at Keller a first round TE. You said Keller sucked. I said we know that now, in hindsight, but at the time he was an investment in a weapon for a QB, like many other weapons they added to the roster that are now gone. Now you are saying Keller wasn't a weapon for Sanchez because they drafted Keller first? Wow. 

 

The Jets tried to surround Sanchez with talent, but he's not a good enough QB and frankly most of the weapons weren't good either. Period. That's the end of the argument. That's why we have a new GM. 

 

You've failed to make a single point in this entire exchange. Quit now, lie about how you were just trying to troll people and move on.

 

[Integrity28]

This is what I'd like to know... In the last 3 or 4 years, with the power of hindsight, what offensive playmakers did we pass on that were drafted within the next 10-15 picks?

 

I keep hearing about AJ Green and Julio Jones in conversations like this, who were picked at 2 and 6 in a year when the Jets had 30 (Wilkerson, not bad) and no 2nd and the 94th pick in the draft.

Is Kendall Wright the difference maker we are missing?  AJ Jenkins?  Brian Quick?  Arrelious Benn?

 

Same argument can be made now. What players were we supposed to add, while also rebuilding the O-line, run game, and replacing guys on defense, oh and adding a potential replacement QB, all while with one of the worst cap situations in football and a sh*t-show reputation that turns away veterans... what "weaponszzzz" were we supposed to add this offseason to satiate the illogical?

[Smashmouth]

The fact that you passed on the entire draft conversation is noted...

 

Brandon Marhsall was not affordable for us at the time he was a free agent and Boldin was a trade, not a free agent.

 

Please name the receiving backs that we could have had, both financially or because of our draft position.

 

The problem with your argument is there are no names that make sense.  I'd like to have Playmaker X too, but you can't just conjure him.

 

EY I said, "adding free agents to the scenario as well"  is not passing I just dont feel like going back and looking at 4 drafts to see what might have been but it would be interesting to see what possibilities might have come of it. Either way you have to optimistic about every draft and the Jets chose to not get any offensive skill players for the longest time and IMO it shows. Keller and Hill were the only pre 4th round picks if Im not mistaken since we tool Brick and Mangold and they are not even skill players

[Smashmouth]

Same argument can be made now. What players were we supposed to add, while also rebuilding the O-line, run game, and replacing guys on defense, oh and adding a potential replacement QB, all while with one of the worst cap situations in football and a sh*t-show reputation that turns away veterans... what "weaponszzzz" were we supposed to add this offseason to satiate the illogical?

 

We have the worst cap situation in the NFL under Tannys watch. It didnt start to get really bad until about 4 years ago.

[Integrity28]

We have the worst cap situation in the NFL under Tannys watch. It didnt start to get really bad until about 4 years ago.

 

Yeah, thanks. I had no idea.

[ZachEY]

EY I said, "adding free agents to the scenario as well"  is not passing I just dont feel like going back and looking at 4 drafts to see what might have been but it would be interesting to see what possibilities might have come of it. Either way you have to optimistic about every draft and the Jets chose to not get any offensive skill players for the longest time and IMO it shows. Keller and Hill were the only pre 4th round picks if Im not mistaken since we tool Brick and Mangold and they are not even skill players

 

I pretty much did it for you in that post about the draft.  That's the thing.

 

Would have been nice to take Desean Jackson over Keller, but the fact is, we tried to add an offensive playmaker, we just missed.  Otherwise, the guys aren't there in the draft.  Overpaying for more veterans isn't what I'm looking for.  We tried it.  It didn't work.

 

Either way, here's the deal as far as where we picked:

 

2009: We trade up for Sanchez and Greene.  Greene was probably a miss but still fits the offensive philosophy, and we're ignoring Sanchez because he's the focal point of this conversation.

 

2010: We pick Kyle Wilson at 29.  Rob Groncowksi is the only good offensive player picked within 15 picks, and he's been hurt a lot, not to mention Brady.  One year after Greene was drafted, you're certainly not going to draft Javhad Best or Dexter McCluster.  Arrelious Benn?  We pick Ducassee at 61.  No playmakers in the next 15 picks.  Closest is Jimmy Graham 34 picks later.

 

2011: We pick Wilkerson at 30.  13 picks later is TE Kyle Rudolph.  Would you make that trade?  Kendrick Ellis at 94.  No playmakers within 15 picks and no pro bowl players drafted after him at all.

 

2012: We take Coples at 16.  Doug Martin is available exactly 15 picks later.  Would have been a major reach.  Otherwise you have AJ Jenkins and Kendall Wright.  Then we took an offensive player in Stephen Hill at 43.  This fits the philosophy of offensive playmaker.  Ashlon Jeffries, Ryan Broyles, Isaiah Pead are who we chose Hill over.  Any bad decisions there?

 

As for Free Agents, we went with Santonio.  Did it work?  Well, kinda, yeah.  He's been our best WR.  Singlehandedly won us 2 crucial games in his first year.  Sure, he's been a baby and he got hurt, but we did add a playmaker in him.