Lizard King Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Can you guys help me out here? Just for starters, Ed Reed disclosed at the White House that he may not make the season opener. Houston just threw him a bucket of money. OK, maybe you want to chalk that up as a lucky break for Baltimore. But I'm too lazy to type anymore and you guys know this is a good conversation. Allow me to sit back here now and see what you've got to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm going to sit back on this one also. #eatspopcorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Being a former all Pro he knows what it takes to be a player in the league and succeed. He also was the first African American GM and these Jackie Robinson type"firsts" tend to be exceptional (they have to be). the NFL in general is about 3 decades behind the rest of society for him to be the first African American GM in the year 2002 (when most of the league's players were African American) was a really big deal. He tends to draft players of value (i.e. should have gone higher). He is extremely successful in the middle rounds, for example Dennis Pitta a round after Ed Dickson. He's excellent at getting OL (Yanda, Osemele, Oher). He trades down to minimize risk (i.e. Courtney Upshaw in rd 2, if it doesn't work out it's not as bad as if he was picked in rd 1). All that being said, Newsome is a great GM but not perfect. He drafted Sergio Kindle. He drafted Kyle Boller. His hits are better than his misses and that's better than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 My guess is that as a former player, he may be better tuned in with coaches and players that he can network with to get the important under the radar information that helps you know a guy like Gholston is a turd before drafting him. Everyone gets the same information from the combines and pro days. Everyone looks at the same film. He is just better at assimilating all this information and prioritizing what is important and what is worth taking a risk on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Hes a smart guy and has a very good eye for talent .... Its really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 He knew enough not to promote Rex to HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 He knew enough not to promote Rex to HC. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 ^^^ The Ravens missed out on four years of pure swagger. Ozzidiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 ^^^ The Ravens missed out on four years of pure swagger. Ozzidiot. And nothing to show for it but a SB title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 He knew enough not to promote Rex to HC. This ^^^ The Ravens missed out on four years of pure swagger. Ozzidiot. And nothing to show for it but a SB title GOTDAMN, THE TRUTH HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate my life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 He knew enough not to promote Rex to HC. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge o8 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 jet fans we must be suckers for heartbreack we have not smelled a SB in how many years, is just sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 jet fans we must be suckers for heartbreack we have not smelled a SB in how many years, is just sad I didn't develop a sense of smell till well after that SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Hes a smart guy and has a very good eye for talent .... Its really that simple. +1 He knew enough not to promote Rex to HC. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Football. Man. He's maintained that roster well. It helps that Lewis and Reed lasted so long as great players, and that they were locked into a great D for most of the 2000's. Bought him alot of time to find Flacco, who is not a great QB by any means (yet?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Football. Man. He's maintained that roster well. It helps that Lewis and Reed lasted so long as great players, and that they were locked into a great D for most of the 2000's. Bought him alot of time to find Flacco, who is not a great QB by any means (yet?). I agree that perhaps Ozzie's biggest failing as a GM has been finding the QB. Flacco's by far the best of a sorry lot, and as we all know, he's not that good, at least not yet. Then again, we know how difficult it is to find an excellent QB. A lot of luck is involved. In Ozzie's case, since he is more conservative and his strength is finding good players in the middle rounds, perhaps he's not willing to give up a buttload of picks to move up to grab a better QB prospect. If one falls to him and is a good value, then he rolls the dice, but otherwise, he tries to improve the rest of the starters and the overall depth, and hopes that will help elevate the QB play enough to enable them to win it all. At least that keeps them consistently good and in the hunt. He may not ever win another Lombardi Trophy, but having a team with double digit wins every season, and a perennial playoff team is nothing to sneeze at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 He was coached up by Sam Rutigliano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 I think the Flacco denigration is slightly unwarranted. That Superbowl is not won without his historic playoff performance. They should not have paid him Drew Brees though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 he drafted kyle "should have been a" bowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 he drafted kyle "should have been a" bowler Nice! they should fire him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Newsome is a top-notch GM but you hypocrites would be tearing him a new one if a Jets GM drafted like this. Some trivia questions (and keep in mind, this is the GM of the team that just won the SB): How many pro bowl / all pro players has Ozzie Newsome drafted in his last 4 drafts (29 players)? Zero. How many regular starters has Ozzie Newsome drafted in his last 4 drafts? Five. Barely 1 per year. When was the last time Ozzie Newsome drafted a starting NFL player after round 4? 2006 (Dawan Landry) When was the last time Ozzie Newsome drafted a starting NFL player after round 3? 2007 (Le'Ron McClain) Ozzie Newsome traded out of round 1 into the top of round 2 to grab an extra draft pick twice. How many starters did he still get with the Ravens' new top pick after trading out of round 1? Zero. Two years ago the Ravens drafted Torrey Smith, who has turned into a pretty good receiver and is only getting better. He is one of the 16 WRs Ozzie Newsome has drafted (10 of the 16 taken in the first 4 rounds). Prior to Torrey Smith, name two next-best full-time starting WRs drafted by Ozzie Newsome out of the other 15 WRs he's drafted. Mark Clayton (2005 round 1, pick 22) Travis Taylor (2000 round 1, pick 10) It is commonly said that today's NFL is a passing league. Name all the receivers drafted by Ozzie Newsome who have ever amassed 900 receiving yards in a single season for the Ravens? There is no such receiver. It has never happened. In 2011 Ozzie Newsome drafted a CB towards the bottom of round 1 (like we did with Kyle Wilson). Is Jimmy Smith any good or is he at least better than Kyle Wilson? No, he is not. In 2010, after trading down from the 25th pick in the draft, the Ravens selected Sergio Kindle. Name Kindle's most obvious attribute. He sucks. How many starting LBers has Ozzie Newsome drafted in the last 10 drafts? Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Newsome is a top-notch GM but you hypocrites would be tearing him a new one if a Jets GM drafted like this. Some trivia questions (and keep in mind, this is the GM of the team that just won the SB): How many pro bowl / all pro players has Ozzie Newsome drafted in his last 4 drafts (29 players)? Zero. How many regular starters has Ozzie Newsome drafted in his last 4 drafts? Five. Barely 1 per year. When was the last time Ozzie Newsome drafted a starting NFL player after round 4? 2006 (Dawan Landry) When was the last time Ozzie Newsome drafted a starting NFL player after round 3? 2007 (Le'Ron McClain) Ozzie Newsome traded out of round 1 into the top of round 2 to grab an extra draft pick twice. How many starters did he still get with the Ravens' new top pick after trading out of round 1? Zero. Two years ago the Ravens drafted Torrey Smith, who has turned into a pretty good receiver and is only getting better. He is one of the 16 WRs Ozzie Newsome has drafted (10 of the 16 taken in the first 4 rounds). Prior to Torrey Smith, name two next-best full-time starting WRs drafted by Ozzie Newsome out of the other 15 WRs he's drafted. Mark Clayton (2005 round 1, pick 22) Travis Taylor (2000 round 1, pick 10) It is commonly said that today's NFL is a passing league. Name all the receivers drafted by Ozzie Newsome who have ever amassed 900 receiving yards in a single season for the Ravens? There is no such receiver. It has never happened. In 2011 Ozzie Newsome drafted a CB towards the bottom of round 1 (like we did with Kyle Wilson). Is Jimmy Smith any good or is he at least better than Kyle Wilson? No, he is not. In 2010, after trading down from the 25th pick in the draft, the Ravens selected Sergio Kindle. Name Kindle's most obvious attribute. He sucks. How many starting LBers has Ozzie Newsome drafted in the last 10 drafts? Zero. They're all miserable hypocrites, Sperm. You tell 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Nice! they should fire him he's no Ernie Accorsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 he's no Ernie Accorsi You mean the guy who drafted Ron "I Run Slower Than a 3 Legged Great" Dayne? he sucks also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 sperm, do you work in the NFL or are you kinda over obsessed with this whole nfl thing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 You mean the guy who drafted Ron "I Run Slower Than a 3 Legged Great" Dayne? he sucks also if i recall, ron dayne made it to more superbowls than the Jets have in the past 40 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 What encourages me about Idzik--and this is true of Ozzie, as well as the Giants, but was never true regarding Tannenbaum and Bradway--is that Idzik is setting the front office up to be relatively independent of the coaching staff, which leads to prolonged success built around one consistent philosophy. Tannenbaum and Bradway had to shift the course of the whole organization depending on who the coach was, which led to complete rebuilds every time a coach changed. If Idzik ends up hiring Rod Graves and a few of his Seattle/Tampa cronies, I expect them to get set up like Alderson has set up the Mets with DePodesta and JP Ricciardi, where the fate of the franchise isn't 100% tied to the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 sperm, do you work in the NFL or are you kinda over obsessed with this whole nfl thing ? I just looked up the Ravens' draft picks since '99. This info is available to anyone. His track record is definitely good, and certainly better than most, but he's hardly a genius. Lots of the identical criticisms of the Tannenbaum/Rex or Tannenbaum/Mangini eras, or Bradway/Herm before them, could be applied to Newsome. Drafting of pass rushers in the last decade, has never ever drafted a 1000-yard WR in a passing league, etc.). Baltimore's a well run organization and Ozzie gets a ton of credit for it. But to read here, you'd think he could do no wrong and the Jets could do no right. We need a QB and that takes care of the overwhelming majority of issues. It allows a team to do a lot more with less and not reach for unworthy players in the draft or FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Every player on the Raven offense would start here except their center and LT. Doesn't that mean anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Newsome is a top-notch GM but you hypocrites would be tearing him a new one if a Jets GM drafted like this. Some trivia questions (and keep in mind, this is the GM of the team that just won the SB): How many pro bowl / all pro players has Ozzie Newsome drafted in his last 4 drafts (29 players)? Zero. How many regular starters has Ozzie Newsome drafted in his last 4 drafts? Five. Barely 1 per year. When was the last time Ozzie Newsome drafted a starting NFL player after round 4? 2006 (Dawan Landry) When was the last time Ozzie Newsome drafted a starting NFL player after round 3? 2007 (Le'Ron McClain) Ozzie Newsome traded out of round 1 into the top of round 2 to grab an extra draft pick twice. How many starters did he still get with the Ravens' new top pick after trading out of round 1? Zero. Two years ago the Ravens drafted Torrey Smith, who has turned into a pretty good receiver and is only getting better. He is one of the 16 WRs Ozzie Newsome has drafted (10 of the 16 taken in the first 4 rounds). Prior to Torrey Smith, name two next-best full-time starting WRs drafted by Ozzie Newsome out of the other 15 WRs he's drafted. Mark Clayton (2005 round 1, pick 22) Travis Taylor (2000 round 1, pick 10) It is commonly said that today's NFL is a passing league. Name all the receivers drafted by Ozzie Newsome who have ever amassed 900 receiving yards in a single season for the Ravens? There is no such receiver. It has never happened. In 2011 Ozzie Newsome drafted a CB towards the bottom of round 1 (like we did with Kyle Wilson). Is Jimmy Smith any good or is he at least better than Kyle Wilson? No, he is not. In 2010, after trading down from the 25th pick in the draft, the Ravens selected Sergio Kindle. Name Kindle's most obvious attribute. He sucks. How many starting LBers has Ozzie Newsome drafted in the last 10 drafts? Zero. Or if his name was Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I just looked up the Ravens' draft picks since '99. This info is available to anyone. His track record is definitely good, and certainly better than most, but he's hardly a genius. Lots of the identical criticisms of the Tannenbaum/Rex or Tannenbaum/Mangini eras, or Bradway/Herm before them, could be applied to Newsome. Drafting of pass rushers in the last decade, has never ever drafted a 1000-yard WR in a passing league, etc.). Baltimore's a well run organization and Ozzie gets a ton of credit for it. But to read here, you'd think he could do no wrong and the Jets could do no right. We need a QB and that takes care of the overwhelming majority of issues. It allows a team to do a lot more with less and not reach for unworthy players in the draft or FA. Before last season, people were comparing Joe Flacco to Mark Sanchez. Ozzie wasn't gifted with Tom Brady and that masked a secretly dubious draft record. Every GM obviously has hits and misses. The good GMs don't paint themselves into corners relying on those misses to carry the team. Tannenbaum missed on Kyle Wilson, so he had to give Cro a giant deal after chasing Nnamdi around the country begging him to take $13 mil per. Ozzie misses on a pick and a mid-round pick or UDFA like Jarrett Johnson or Cary Williams or Bart Scott or Antwan Barnes or Edgerton Hartwell or Dennis Pitta or Bernard Pierce or Jacoby Jones, etc is ready to step in. Tannenbaum and Ozzie are open to similar criticisms like Kid Rock and Mozart are open to similar criticisms. The records attest to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKlecko Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I'll bet that's the first time that Mozart and Kid Rock have ever been mentioned in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Before last season, people were comparing Joe Flacco to Mark Sanchez. Ozzie wasn't gifted with Tom Brady and that masked a secretly dubious draft record. Every GM obviously has hits and misses. The good GMs don't paint themselves into corners relying on those misses to carry the team. Tannenbaum missed on Kyle Wilson, so he had to give Cro a giant deal after chasing Nnamdi around the country begging him to take $13 mil per. Ozzie misses on a pick and a mid-round pick or UDFA like Jarrett Johnson or Cary Williams or Bart Scott or Antwan Barnes or Edgerton Hartwell or Dennis Pitta or Bernard Pierce or Jacoby Jones, etc is ready to step in. Tannenbaum and Ozzie are open to similar criticisms like Kid Rock and Mozart are open to similar criticisms. The records attest to that. If you think I'm going to get into going on defense defending a "Tannenbaum sucks" argument you are mistaken. All I'm saying is when there are similarities, like getting use out of someone and then dumping him at the perfect time the way Ozzie appears to have done with Ed Reed, one is referred to as so freaking good and the other is mocked. We got a couple of productive years out of Braylon, then in an offseason when he initially wants higher-end starter money, he goes elsewhere for near the league minimum and is instant garbage. That is a perfect example of dumping a guy at the right time, meanwhile he was ripped mercilessly here for not re-signing Edwards for $6-8M/year (at the time). Same thing with the timing in dumping Cotchery. Same with Brad Smith. Ditto Shaun Ellis, Victor Hobson, Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, and I'm sure plenty of others as well if I cared to compile a longer list. And anyone who was comparing Flacco - flawed QB as he was and is - to Sanchez just one year ago doesn't watch football. Even last year's post-season, the guy threw a perfect, game-winning pass in the AFCCG last season as well and Evans just didn't hang onto the ball. And on that note, was Ozzie Newsome ripped horribly here for picking up Lee Evans and giving up a 4th rounder or whatever it was for him? Hell, no. He was hailed as a genius for getting such a quality receiver so cheaply while we were supposedly asleep at the wheel. And the guy was a big zero, culminating in blowing the whole season for them. If Ozzie had brought in a better WR - or maybe if he drafted better - they'd have another SB ring. All I'm saying is that Newsome is a damn solid GM. But he's no Mozart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 If you think I'm going to get into going on defense defending a "Tannenbaum sucks" argument you are mistaken. All I'm saying is when there are similarities, like getting use out of someone and then dumping him at the perfect time the way Ozzie appears to have done with Ed Reed, one is referred to as so freaking good and the other is mocked. We got a couple of productive years out of Braylon, then in an offseason when he initially wants higher-end starter money, he goes elsewhere for near the league minimum and is instant garbage. That is a perfect example of dumping a guy at the right time, meanwhile he was ripped mercilessly here for not re-signing Edwards for $6-8M/year (at the time). Same thing with the timing in dumping Cotchery. Same with Brad Smith. Ditto Shaun Ellis, Victor Hobson, Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, and I'm sure plenty of others as well if I cared to compile a longer list. And anyone who was comparing Flacco - flawed QB as he was and is - to Sanchez just one year ago doesn't watch football. Even last year's post-season, the guy threw a perfect, game-winning pass in the AFCCG last season as well and Evans just didn't hang onto the ball. And on that note, was Ozzie Newsome ripped horribly here for picking up Lee Evans and giving up a 4th rounder or whatever it was for him? Hell, no. He was hailed as a genius for getting such a quality receiver so cheaply while we were supposedly asleep at the wheel. And the guy was a big zero, culminating in blowing the whole season for them. If Ozzie had brought in a better WR - or maybe if he drafted better - they'd have another SB ring. All I'm saying is that Newsome is a damn solid GM. But he's no Mozart. Any GM can have his record picked apart and reconstructed to prove that he wasn't as good as the results, from Polian to Bill Walsh to Ernie Accorsi to Jerry Reese. Any of them. The far majority of GMs get fired at some point. I just don't see the value in using Newsome's record to somehow retroactively validate Tannenbaum's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 If you think I'm going to get into going on defense defending a "Tannenbaum sucks" argument you are mistaken. All I'm saying is when there are similarities, like getting use out of someone and then dumping him at the perfect time the way Ozzie appears to have done with Ed Reed, one is referred to as so freaking good and the other is mocked. We got a couple of productive years out of Braylon, then in an offseason when he initially wants higher-end starter money, he goes elsewhere for near the league minimum and is instant garbage. That is a perfect example of dumping a guy at the right time, meanwhile he was ripped mercilessly here for not re-signing Edwards for $6-8M/year (at the time). Same thing with the timing in dumping Cotchery. Same with Brad Smith. Ditto Shaun Ellis, Victor Hobson, Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, and I'm sure plenty of others as well if I cared to compile a longer list. And anyone who was comparing Flacco - flawed QB as he was and is - to Sanchez just one year ago doesn't watch football. Even last year's post-season, the guy threw a perfect, game-winning pass in the AFCCG last season as well and Evans just didn't hang onto the ball. And on that note, was Ozzie Newsome ripped horribly here for picking up Lee Evans and giving up a 4th rounder or whatever it was for him? Hell, no. He was hailed as a genius for getting such a quality receiver so cheaply while we were supposedly asleep at the wheel. And the guy was a big zero, culminating in blowing the whole season for them. If Ozzie had brought in a better WR - or maybe if he drafted better - they'd have another SB ring. All I'm saying is that Newsome is a damn solid GM. But he's no Mozart. I will jump in here. The Ravens and Jets both had cap trouble last year, but the difference between the two teams is that the Ravens have a ton of depth and the Jets were a top heavy team built on a house of cards. You mention that there has been no 1,000 yard receiver, however you neglect to mention that Newsome hit a grand slam on Ray Rice. Flacco has a cannon which Sanchez does not, has also proven to be far more reliable in the playoffs like when he had to out shoot Denver. You can say a lot of things about that game but you cannot deny that Flacco outplayed Peyton Manning at home. I have yet to see Sanchez outplay Manning or anyone else for that manner in a crucial game, no, 2010 in Indy does not count, that was defensive- and without Revis I am really interested to see how he steps up because this year he needs to put points on the board. Letting Faneca and Jones go were probably a big mistake for a team built on power running. I take Torrey Smith all day over Stephen Hill. Not seeing how Newsome and Tanny are in the same league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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