Alvin "Bud" Dupree

[derp]

Who do you think will end up being the best pure edge rusher in this class?

 

I have no idea, I have opinions about the draft but it's so hard to project and I don't watch enough to really speak in absolutes. So much depends on team fit, surrounding players, scheme, coaching staff, how guys are used, etc.

 

In terms of best pure edge rusher I think you're probably looking for athletes given there isn't a hyper productive guy in the class. Gregory and Ray probably have a shot, Beasley, Dupree, Harold. Fowler should be solid but I don't think we'll every look back at him as a stud edge rusher. I do realize I just named almost all of the perceived top guys in the class, but again, I don't actually know.

 

I'd probably feel the best about Beasley. Ray is probably the best combination of production and athleticism, but he's pretty small and maybe it's the way Missouri used him but the way he sets the edge wasn't...effective. He's probably another good bet to be a solid player actually, Mizzou does a great job with their defensive linemen. Gregory is just so slight and Dupree/Harold are mostly athleticism shots.

[derp]

Thanks for clearing that up. That seals it I guess. Dupree goes #1 overall. By the way where were you when those other busts were drafted? You sound very smart ... after the fact. Doesn't exactly take a genius to do what you're doing.

 

Better to sound smart after the fact than not at all? For the record I liked Gholston that draft, before I really started judging guys based off of full games instead of highlights, but I did like him much like many others. Was not a fan of Perry at all because he was linear as I said before. Following the draft is a process, you learn from mistakes over time. I'm still picking things up as I go along, key traits etc. 

 

I never said Dupree was an outstanding prospect or even a top 10 pick. I think he'd be a nice option for a team in the mid-late first. Cincinnati tends to do really well with guys like Dupree, for example. I'd like him there. 

 

I do think he's different than the players he's been compared to in this thread and it's extremely evident if you actually watch the players instead of writing them off because they're athletic. Saying you want guys who don't have impressive combines is absolutely asinine - which I pointed out with my previous post. It's absolutely not the be all end all, but the way you put it was that you'd write off edge guys who are impressive athletically.

 

Von Miller was a great athlete, obvious in college, backed it up at the combine - are you not going to draft him after that because he...did well? Mario Williams? That's like not hiring someone because they had a good GPA. You don't draft a guy because he had a good combine, but you also don't NOT draft a guy because he had a good combine.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I'm late to the party, but tell me that the argument really isn't that in a game defined by athleticism, we'd rather have the guy who has less athleticism, because combine?

[DaBallhawk]

Better to sound smart after the fact than not at all? For the record I liked Gholston that draft, before I really started judging guys based off of full games instead of highlights, but I did like him much like many others. Was not a fan of Perry at all because he was linear as I said before. Following the draft is a process, you learn from mistakes over time. I'm still picking things up as I go along, key traits etc. 

 

I never said Dupree was an outstanding prospect or even a top 10 pick. I think he'd be a nice option for a team in the mid-late first. Cincinnati tends to do really well with guys like Dupree, for example. I'd like him there. 

 

I do think he's different than the players he's been compared to in this thread and it's extremely evident if you actually watch the players instead of writing them off because they're athletic. Saying you want guys who don't have impressive combines is absolutely asinine - which I pointed out with my previous post. It's absolutely not the be all end all, but the way you put it was that you'd write off edge guys who are impressive athletically.

 

Von Miller was a great athlete, obvious in college, backed it up at the combine - are you not going to draft him after that because he...did well? Mario Williams? That's like not hiring someone because they had a good GPA. You don't draft a guy because he had a good combine, but you also don't NOT draft a guy because he had a good combine.

 

No, it just makes you sound like a hypocrite. Instead of admitting that your take on Dupree is basically the same take you should have had on Gholston, you're basically saying you knew all along that Gholston was a bust but ohhhh nooo, with Dupree it's tooootally different. Based on some BS drill that he wasn't able to quite as fast I guess as Dupree. I mean it's absurd. That had absolutely nothing to do with it. Last time I checked Vernon put up record type numbers (sacks in a game or in a 3 game stretch or something like that) at Ohio State. Don't tell me that because of some dumb combine drill he couldn't put it together in the NFL. The issue with Gholston was the lack of anything that one can't measure. Heart, passion, intangibles, physicality, all that. Gholston and Dupree are the same exact guy coming out of college. It doesn't get any closer than that. Whether it's size, skill, physique, talent, draft grade, awareness, athleticism, it's all virtually identical. In fact, you can make a case that Gholston was a better prospect. Dupree in my opinion is not even one of the 5 top edge rushers coming out, to me there's just too big a bust potential with him. It's not based on who has the most upside. The Gholston comparison however does not mean he will be the same exact player in the NFL. All I'm saying is right before getting drafted these two are virtually the same guy. What will be a difference is everything that's inside like I said earlier, the things that can't be measured and the things that make great players. Does he love football? Is he gonna work on his craft, train hard and study his ass off to become one of the greats? Does he like being physical? All that remains to be seen. If the answer is yes then Dupree can be a better, more healthy, JPP at the next level. That's All Pro material. If he doesn't love contact, if he doesn't care about being great, if he's just in it for the fame and that 1st round contract / money he will wash away just like Gholston and be one of the biggest busts in this decade.

 

As for the rest of your post, I don't knock people for being athletic. I'm just on the opposite of you I guess. I don't look at those numbers and then go "well this guy is gonna be great, he ran a fast 40, that guy ran a slow 40, not interested. This guy however had a better vertical than that guy, let's get him instead." I don't care about combine numbers. None of that translates to the field. All of that is just something they worked on the entire offseason with their trainers. It's not that hard for a player to put up 30-40 bench reps. If you prepare for it. That doesn't mean you're naturally a strong guy or know how to use leverage and technique to make up for maybe a lack of strength. I don't care about none of that and it's gotten to a point almost where I actually value slower guys more than I do workout warriors. Because those guys don't rely on their athleticism, they have to get an advantage by doing what everybody should do, focus on technique, study film, work hard and be physical, show effort on every down. Marquee type prospects that physically have everything you're looking for usually don't do that, they don't give 110% effort on every down, they don't spend all day in the film room, they don't love being physical and to work hard. It's human nature, the way they grew up. Some people are handed things, others have to work for it. There's a reason why the best athletes on the planet, the best fighers etc. all were broke growing up. You don't see the son of CEO's have that same drive and be willing to go through all that. Anyway, while I'm no expert I think I know enough to sort of judge prospects, their playing style etc. and I go on from there. Dupree to me looks just like Gholston. He has no moves, he doesn't play fast. He doesn't wow anybody with this tape. If I had to guess I would have put him in the 4.9 range, at least that's what he looks like on the field. Totally different from a Suggs or Von Miller. Those guys were shot out of a cannon when the ball was snapped. I'd even throw Mingo in there, and Dion Jordan. Those guys fly around on the field, they can bend like crazy. Those are crazy athletes with the talent and the knack for getting to the QB. Jordan doesn't fit MIA's scheme and Mingo I think is always hurt. In the right scheme (here) I think both those guys can be elite.

 

But back to my original point. I don't love a player, then look at his combine workouts and if he ran the 40 too fast I'd say "No! Don't draft him! I love everything about him but since he ran a fast 40 we can't draft him!". That's sort of how you're trying to put it. What I'm simply saying is that whether I want a player or not, my mind is already made up before I know about his combine performance. I wouldn't touch Dupree with a 10 foot pole, and that was before the combine. And I don't want to touch him now that the Combine is finished. I simply don't care about his 40 yard dash or how athletic he was at the combine. He's a different player on tape. But then there are other guys that I love watching play and that I do want us to draft. And I still want them no matter how slow their 40 yard dash is/was because on tape they play fast, they go all out on every play, they show effort, they love football. Wilk was not a workout warrior, neither was Sheldon, Snacks, David Harris or Coples. They all turned out to be great players for us. Von Miller was one of those guys, he played hard, he played crazy fast and he posted the numbers we expected at the combine. He's not a workout warrior. That's just how athletic he is. Same as Aldon Smith, or Shawne Merriman. Those guys aren't workout warriors, they play just as fast if not faster when they're on the field. But then you see how athletic they are, you don't need their combine numbers. So I don't understand why people value combine numbers. If you want to see how athletic somebody is, watch his film. If he looks slow on tape then it doesn't matter if he runs the 40 in 4.1 seconds, he's not gonna play fast.

[SenorGato]

Oooooon tape, dammit

Dupree is more Ware than Gholston. Four year player, almost all as a starter...4 less sacks but against way better completion...both are 6'4"....both stood out at the Senior Bowl...both steadily rose from 2-3 round status to locks for the first to possibly much better as the draft got closer...Dupree beat Ware's own freakish combine workout, starting with being 15+ pounds heavier (Ware had the longer arms and bigger hands THO).

[T0mShane]

No, it just makes you sound like a hypocrite. Instead of admitting that your take on Dupree is basically the same take you should have had on Gholston, you're basically saying you knew all along that Gholston was a bust but ohhhh nooo, with Dupree it's tooootally different. Based on some BS drill that he wasn't able to quite as fast I guess as Dupree. I mean it's absurd. That had absolutely nothing to do with it. Last time I checked Vernon put up record type numbers (sacks in a game or in a 3 game stretch or something like that) at Ohio State. Don't tell me that because of some dumb combine drill he couldn't put it together in the NFL. The issue with Gholston was the lack of anything that one can't measure. Heart, passion, intangibles, physicality, all that. Gholston and Dupree are the same exact guy coming out of college. It doesn't get any closer than that. Whether it's size, skill, physique, talent, draft grade, awareness, athleticism, it's all virtually identical. In fact, you can make a case that Gholston was a better prospect. Dupree in my opinion is not even one of the 5 top edge rushers coming out, to me there's just too big a bust potential with him. It's not based on who has the most upside. The Gholston comparison however does not mean he will be the same exact player in the NFL. All I'm saying is right before getting drafted these two are virtually the same guy. What will be a difference is everything that's inside like I said earlier, the things that can't be measured and the things that make great players. Does he love football? Is he gonna work on his craft, train hard and study his ass off to become one of the greats? Does he like being physical? All that remains to be seen. If the answer is yes then Dupree can be a better, more healthy, JPP at the next level. That's All Pro material. If he doesn't love contact, if he doesn't care about being great, if he's just in it for the fame and that 1st round contract / money he will wash away just like Gholston and be one of the biggest busts in this decade.

 

As for the rest of your post, I don't knock people for being athletic. I'm just on the opposite of you I guess. I don't look at those numbers and then go "well this guy is gonna be great, he ran a fast 40, that guy ran a slow 40, not interested. This guy however had a better vertical than that guy, let's get him instead." I don't care about combine numbers. None of that translates to the field. All of that is just something they worked on the entire offseason with their trainers. It's not that hard for a player to put up 30-40 bench reps. If you prepare for it. That doesn't mean you're naturally a strong guy or know how to use leverage and technique to make up for maybe a lack of strength. I don't care about none of that and it's gotten to a point almost where I actually value slower guys more than I do workout warriors. Because those guys don't rely on their athleticism, they have to get an advantage by doing what everybody should do, focus on technique, study film, work hard and be physical, show effort on every down. Marquee type prospects that physically have everything you're looking for usually don't do that, they don't give 110% effort on every down, they don't spend all day in the film room, they don't love being physical and to work hard. It's human nature, the way they grew up. Some people are handed things, others have to work for it. There's a reason why the best athletes on the planet, the best fighers etc. all were broke growing up. You don't see the son of CEO's have that same drive and be willing to go through all that. Anyway, while I'm no expert I think I know enough to sort of judge prospects, their playing style etc. and I go on from there. Dupree to me looks just like Gholston. He has no moves, he doesn't play fast. He doesn't wow anybody with this tape. If I had to guess I would have put him in the 4.9 range, at least that's what he looks like on the field. Totally different from a Suggs or Von Miller. Those guys were shot out of a cannon when the ball was snapped. I'd even throw Mingo in there, and Dion Jordan. Those guys fly around on the field, they can bend like crazy. Those are crazy athletes with the talent and the knack for getting to the QB. Jordan doesn't fit MIA's scheme and Mingo I think is always hurt. In the right scheme (here) I think both those guys can be elite.

 

But back to my original point. I don't love a player, then look at his combine workouts and if he ran the 40 too fast I'd say "No! Don't draft him! I love everything about him but since he ran a fast 40 we can't draft him!". That's sort of how you're trying to put it. What I'm simply saying is that whether I want a player or not, my mind is already made up before I know about his combine performance. I wouldn't touch Dupree with a 10 foot pole, and that was before the combine. And I don't want to touch him now that the Combine is finished. I simply don't care about his 40 yard dash or how athletic he was at the combine. He's a different player on tape. But then there are other guys that I love watching play and that I do want us to draft. And I still want them no matter how slow their 40 yard dash is/was because on tape they play fast, they go all out on every play, they show effort, they love football. Wilk was not a workout warrior, neither was Sheldon, Snacks, David Harris or Coples. They all turned out to be great players for us. Von Miller was one of those guys, he played hard, he played crazy fast and he posted the numbers we expected at the combine. He's not a workout warrior. That's just how athletic he is. Same as Aldon Smith, or Shawne Merriman. Those guys aren't workout warriors, they play just as fast if not faster when they're on the field. But then you see how athletic they are, you don't need their combine numbers. So I don't understand why people value combine numbers. If you want to see how athletic somebody is, watch his film. If he looks slow on tape then it doesn't matter if he runs the 40 in 4.1 seconds, he's not gonna play fast.

Agreed I like to evaluate players the old fashioned way--YouTube highlight vids. No other way really.

[Integrity28]

And the people who pretend to be stupid on the internet are the smartest of all.

What does this mean for the people that just are stupid on the internet?

[dbatesman]

Oooooon tape, dammit

Dupree is more Ware than Gholston. Four year player, almost all as a starter...4 less sacks but against way better completion...both are 6'4"....both stood out at the Senior Bowl...both steadily rose from 2-3 round status to locks for the first to possibly much better as the draft got closer...Dupree beat Ware's own freakish combine workout, starting with being 15+ pounds heavier (Ware had the longer arms and bigger hands THO).

Doesn't show effort, doesn't love football

[dbatesman]

This would also be a good time to announce that I'm developing an algorithm that quantifies heart, passion, intangibles, physicality, and all that. Early returns are promising.

[CanadaSteve]

Skill beats size, heart beats talent. We need more Klecko's in this league and less Gholston's.

This is why I am so shocked at why the NFL, in general, salivates over these combines.  When it comes down to it, who really gives a crap that you can run a three cone, jump high, or run the fastest in shorts 40 straight yards?

To me, does this not seem like a lazy way for scouts to actually scout?  Would it not be better that they are keeping eyes on the guys that come into the league, and watch how they actually perform on the field?  To watch for that 'it' factor, the guys who get now to play football, who want to lean, who are professional on and off the field?

[dbatesman]

'it' factor

YAHTZEE

[RutgersJetFan]

This would also be a good time to announce that I'm developing an algorithm that quantifies heart, passion, intangibles, physicality, and all that. Early returns are promising.

Coding determined by watching Rudy, of course.

[section314]

This would also be a good time to announce that I'm developing an algorithm that quantifies heart, passion, intangibles, physicality, and all that. Early returns are promising.

 Are you looking for investors?

[nycdan]

Coding determined by watching Rudy, of course.

 

Add in Invincible with a 20% weight and you're on your way.

[RutgersJetFan]

Add in Invincible with a 20% weight and you're on your way.

Majority of that coming from the mud game in the park, I assume.

[DaBallhawk]

Oooooon tape, dammit

Dupree is more Ware than Gholston. Four year player, almost all as a starter...4 less sacks but against way better completion...both are 6'4"....both stood out at the Senior Bowl...both steadily rose from 2-3 round status to locks for the first to possibly much better as the draft got closer...Dupree beat Ware's own freakish combine workout, starting with being 15+ pounds heavier (Ware had the longer arms and bigger hands THO).

 

You keep going back to comparing some meaningless drills, weight, hands, quad, visor, neckpad, whatever. Just stop it already. That is not going to affect a player at the Pro Level in any way, shape or form. Dupree would be the same guy whether he runs a 4.6 or a 4.8, whether he jumps 36 or 42 inches. It's not gonna affect him.

[CTM]

What does this mean for the people that just are stupid on the internet?

 

 

I think anyone who spends a considerable amount of time arguing on the internet is pretty stupid

[RutgersJetFan]

I think anyone who spends a considerable amount of time arguing on the internet is pretty stupid

 

I think your face is stupid.

[Integrity28]

I think anyone who spends a considerable amount of time arguing on the internet is pretty stupid

 

So, the loophole you left yourself is that you don't spend what you consider and "considerable amount of time" doing it.

 

Genius.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

And the people who pretend to be stupid on the internet are the smartest of all.

You mother****er. I wish I wrote that.

[Integrity28]

You keep going back to comparing some meaningless drills, weight, hands, quad, visor, neckpad, whatever. Just stop it already. That is not going to affect a player at the Pro Level in any way, shape or form. Dupree would be the same guy whether he runs a 4.6 or a 4.8, whether he jumps 36 or 42 inches. It's not gonna affect him.

 

He'd be the same guy, but would it mean he can run faster and jump farther? What I mean by that is, more explosive. Not elite in terms of good at football, but elite in terms of elite things that don't necessarily count football skills.

[CTM]

So, the loophole you left yourself is that you don't spend what you consider and "considerable amount of time" doing it.

 

Genius.

 

no loophole, i include myself

[T0mShane]

I think you're all pretty smart, and I love that every one of your great psychological failings is so readily apparent.

[Integrity28]

I think you're all pretty smart, and I love that every one of your great psychological failings is so readily apparent.

 

I'd like to skin you alive. 

[derp]

No, it just makes you sound like a hypocrite. Instead of admitting that your take on Dupree is basically the same take you should have had on Gholston, you're basically saying you knew all along that Gholston was a bust but ohhhh nooo, with Dupree it's tooootally different. Based on some BS drill that he wasn't able to quite as fast I guess as Dupree. I mean it's absurd. That had absolutely nothing to do with it. Last time I checked Vernon put up record type numbers (sacks in a game or in a 3 game stretch or something like that) at Ohio State. Don't tell me that because of some dumb combine drill he couldn't put it together in the NFL. The issue with Gholston was the lack of anything that one can't measure. Heart, passion, intangibles, physicality, all that. Gholston and Dupree are the same exact guy coming out of college. It doesn't get any closer than that. Whether it's size, skill, physique, talent, draft grade, awareness, athleticism, it's all virtually identical. In fact, you can make a case that Gholston was a better prospect. Dupree in my opinion is not even one of the 5 top edge rushers coming out, to me there's just too big a bust potential with him. It's not based on who has the most upside. The Gholston comparison however does not mean he will be the same exact player in the NFL. All I'm saying is right before getting drafted these two are virtually the same guy. What will be a difference is everything that's inside like I said earlier, the things that can't be measured and the things that make great players. Does he love football? Is he gonna work on his craft, train hard and study his ass off to become one of the greats? Does he like being physical? All that remains to be seen. If the answer is yes then Dupree can be a better, more healthy, JPP at the next level. That's All Pro material. If he doesn't love contact, if he doesn't care about being great, if he's just in it for the fame and that 1st round contract / money he will wash away just like Gholston and be one of the biggest busts in this decade.

 

As for the rest of your post, I don't knock people for being athletic. I'm just on the opposite of you I guess. I don't look at those numbers and then go "well this guy is gonna be great, he ran a fast 40, that guy ran a slow 40, not interested. This guy however had a better vertical than that guy, let's get him instead." I don't care about combine numbers. None of that translates to the field. All of that is just something they worked on the entire offseason with their trainers. It's not that hard for a player to put up 30-40 bench reps. If you prepare for it. That doesn't mean you're naturally a strong guy or know how to use leverage and technique to make up for maybe a lack of strength. I don't care about none of that and it's gotten to a point almost where I actually value slower guys more than I do workout warriors. Because those guys don't rely on their athleticism, they have to get an advantage by doing what everybody should do, focus on technique, study film, work hard and be physical, show effort on every down. Marquee type prospects that physically have everything you're looking for usually don't do that, they don't give 110% effort on every down, they don't spend all day in the film room, they don't love being physical and to work hard. It's human nature, the way they grew up. Some people are handed things, others have to work for it. There's a reason why the best athletes on the planet, the best fighers etc. all were broke growing up. You don't see the son of CEO's have that same drive and be willing to go through all that. Anyway, while I'm no expert I think I know enough to sort of judge prospects, their playing style etc. and I go on from there. Dupree to me looks just like Gholston. He has no moves, he doesn't play fast. He doesn't wow anybody with this tape. If I had to guess I would have put him in the 4.9 range, at least that's what he looks like on the field. Totally different from a Suggs or Von Miller. Those guys were shot out of a cannon when the ball was snapped. I'd even throw Mingo in there, and Dion Jordan. Those guys fly around on the field, they can bend like crazy. Those are crazy athletes with the talent and the knack for getting to the QB. Jordan doesn't fit MIA's scheme and Mingo I think is always hurt. In the right scheme (here) I think both those guys can be elite.

 

But back to my original point. I don't love a player, then look at his combine workouts and if he ran the 40 too fast I'd say "No! Don't draft him! I love everything about him but since he ran a fast 40 we can't draft him!". That's sort of how you're trying to put it. What I'm simply saying is that whether I want a player or not, my mind is already made up before I know about his combine performance. I wouldn't touch Dupree with a 10 foot pole, and that was before the combine. And I don't want to touch him now that the Combine is finished. I simply don't care about his 40 yard dash or how athletic he was at the combine. He's a different player on tape. But then there are other guys that I love watching play and that I do want us to draft. And I still want them no matter how slow their 40 yard dash is/was because on tape they play fast, they go all out on every play, they show effort, they love football. Wilk was not a workout warrior, neither was Sheldon, Snacks, David Harris or Coples. They all turned out to be great players for us. Von Miller was one of those guys, he played hard, he played crazy fast and he posted the numbers we expected at the combine. He's not a workout warrior. That's just how athletic he is. Same as Aldon Smith, or Shawne Merriman. Those guys aren't workout warriors, they play just as fast if not faster when they're on the field. But then you see how athletic they are, you don't need their combine numbers. So I don't understand why people value combine numbers. If you want to see how athletic somebody is, watch his film. If he looks slow on tape then it doesn't matter if he runs the 40 in 4.1 seconds, he's not gonna play fast.

 

That's a whole lot of words to say very little, but:

 

1) How would you know I had the same take on Gholston as Dupree? You're purely speculating - I don't have the same take on the two - and simply pointed out that he's a different type of player because he's more mobile so the comparison is garbage. And Dupree didn't even do agility drills, I'm getting that from watching him play. So that entire paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

 

2) As for your second paragraph, your first post in this thread was quite literally: "He's a bust. Elite pass rushers in general don't wow people with their combine numbers. Just stay away from him." That to me is saying if somebody is athletic you don't want him. And that's the premise I was knocking. You can talk around it all you want, but that's what you said. Elite pass rushers don't put up good combine numbers. Which I disagreed with, and still disagree with.

 

3) Wilkerson, Richardson, and Harris all actually put up oustanding combine numbers. Coples put up decent numbers, and Merriman put up great numbers. So none of that makes any sense.

 

4) I just disagree on your assessment of Dupree's on field skills. He's fast, athletic, and mobile when I watch him. Which is why heading into the combine everyone thought he was going to test out as a good athlete. Because he's a good athlete when you watch him in games. Needs technical work, sure, but so did Richardson. I wouldn't like him at six, but I still like him as a prospect. Did before he had a good combine. 

[#27TheDominator]

You mother****er. I wish I wrote that.

 

... and I wish I wrote that.

[BroadwayJoe12]

You keep going back to comparing some meaningless drills, weight, hands, quad, visor, neckpad, whatever. Just stop it already. That is not going to affect a player at the Pro Level in any way, shape or form. Dupree would be the same guy whether he runs a 4.6 or a 4.8, whether he jumps 36 or 42 inches. It's not gonna affect him.

 

In fact, he wouldn't be the same guy, I'm not sure how this is even an argument. All of those things matter, but hands, really? you honestly add hand size as part of your argument on things that are meaningless??  You're right, Calvin Johnson would totally be the same guy if he ran a 4.6 and had 7" hands....

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Coples had lousy combine numbers besides the 40.

[DaBallhawk]

That's a whole lot of words to say very little, but:

 

1) How would you know I had the same take on Gholston as Dupree? You're purely speculating - I don't have the same take on the two - and simply pointed out that he's a different type of player because he's more mobile so the comparison is garbage. And Dupree didn't even do agility drills, I'm getting that from watching him play. So that entire paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

 

2) As for your second paragraph, your first post in this thread was quite literally: "He's a bust. Elite pass rushers in general don't wow people with their combine numbers. Just stay away from him." That to me is saying if somebody is athletic you don't want him. And that's the premise I was knocking. You can talk around it all you want, but that's what you said. Elite pass rushers don't put up good combine numbers. Which I disagreed with, and still disagree with.

 

3) Wilkerson, Richardson, and Harris all actually put up oustanding combine numbers. Coples put up decent numbers, and Merriman put up great numbers. So none of that makes any sense.

 

4) I just disagree on your assessment of Dupree's on field skills. He's fast, athletic, and mobile when I watch him. Which is why heading into the combine everyone thought he was going to test out as a good athlete. Because he's a good athlete when you watch him in games. Needs technical work, sure, but so did Richardson. I wouldn't like him at six, but I still like him as a prospect. Did before he had a good combine. 

 

1: The entire comparison is complete garbage because you feel like he's more mobile. That is absolutely hilarious. Besides, I'm telling you right now, he's not. Another thing: Unlike Gholston Dupree avoided running those drills that would determine how "mobile" he is. And based on his 10 yard split Gholston was WAY more explosive and he was close to ripping off 40 reps on the bench press. You sound moronic the way you go on and make up things to somehow find a difference between the two. Anybody with at least one eye watches the tape and sees the same exact player out there. Anybody that compares size, talent and (lack of) skill, athlecisim, sees the same exact guy. You don't, because you don't want to. That's fine. Just realize that. That's all.

 

2. That's what you don't get. The first part was me trying to tell you what a player that lacks everything that can't be measured but does post great combine numbers might turn out to be. A major bust. I also pointed out in the same exact paragraph that if he does have those things that can't be measured he could be an even better and more healthy JPP. That's All Pro material. But you chose to ignore that because of how much in love you are with this workout warrior.

 

3. I think somebody should explain to you the definition of "outstanding". It seems like you don't know the meaning of it. If you do then once again you sound like a moron and I'm not trying to offend you in any way honestly, it's just a fact. How is Wilk running the 40 in 5 seconds flat "outstanding"? I mean it's not terrible, outstanding would be anything around 4.7 maybe. 5 seconds flat is what the average lineman puts up. He had an absolute pathetic 26 inch vertical and to top it all he did 27 reps on the bench press. I think I've seen cornerbacks half his size do more. Let's continue with those outstanding combine performances however. I'm still shocked at how good Mo's numbers are but I try to focus now, it's not easy when you blow up the combine the way Mo did. Next up: Richardson. Runs the 40 in over 5 seconds, at under 300 pounds. Again, not terrible, but far from anything that you'd consider "good" or even "outstanding". If you want "outstanding" look at Aaron Donald who ran the 40 in 4.6 seconds. Does any of thise horsesh*t mean anything? No. Watch Richardson play, he's more athletic than any of our linebacker not named DD. He chased down an olympic type track runner during the season. You can make a case that late in the game, when running full speed takes more than just moving your legs, when you have to dig deep and fight through pain, fatigue etc. that Sheldon could outrun most of our DB's. Based on his 40 however he should be SMOKED by EVERYBODY on the field. Again, do you get my point of how meaningless these numbers are? Coples didn't have a stellar combine workout, neither did Harris. I'm not gonna go on and on with this now.

 

4. Then I honestly don't know what you're watching, if you see a guy who's fast, athletic, mobile etc. out there in Dupree. Try to watch some real game footage of him, not the couple of great highlight plays he might have had last season. Watch a game and then go over every snap. I did that with Fowler (vs Florida State). If you want to see a fast, athletic, mobile DE who understands football, who reads QB's, who plays balls to the walls, gives 110% effort on each play, hustles and doesn't quit, has great closing speed, a guy who looks so comfortable on his feet (LB) already that he'd be a real threat as an outside backer in the 3-4, then look no further. That's what you want. This guy in my opinion could very well be the next Von Miller. I don't even know what his combine numbers are. I don't care. I don't care if he put up 5 bench reps or if he ran the 40 in 5 seconds flat. I see the guy play and he looks wicked fast & explosive, he looks plenty strong for a guy in the 250-260 pound range I'd assume. That's all I need to know. If I need an edge rusher, he's my pick. Mind you, I haven't "studied" every edge rusher but I wouldn't even bother. The guy just looks that good. Dupree is the exact opposite. He doesn't understand football. He has no moves, he doesn't play fast, he's not comfortable dropping back, standing up, he's not especially strong (bench reps help you NADA when it comes to blowing up the pocket or bull rushing people) or anything really. Nothing about his game blows me away. I wouldn't even touch him in the 1st round. Not even in the 2nd round because it's just too much of a gamble to look at his combine numbers and then pray for something to happen. He's similar to Stephen Hill in my view in a lot of ways. The numbers one can see look outstanding but what we don't see and what makes great players are the things that can't be measured. I don't think Dupree's got them. And Hill sure as hell didn't have them.

 

I'm not saying he WILL bust. I just wouldn't take the risk, that's all. To me he's very likely to bust. Whether he does or doesn't we'll see. If somebody uses him in the right scheme - personally I don't see a LB in him, he's more of a Ez Ansah type pass rushing 4-3 DE in my opinion - he could turn out to be a really good pick who produces sacks. He'd be a perfect fit in Tampa's defense but there's no way they pick him at #2. If the pick him at the beginning of the 2nd round that would be his best shot at having a good career I think. Fowler to me is a LB, he'll flourish in a 3-4 defense when used like Von Miller, Demarcus Ware. By the way, Jerry Hughes went through the same crap. Misfit in Indy's 4-3 defense, then he gets to Buffalo and tears it up in the 3-4.

 

Look, I don't know for sure what's gonna happen. Neither do you or anyone else. All we do is give our opinion based on what we've seen so far. If Dupree to you looks like a fast, athletic LB who's got what it takes to be a great pass rusher at the next level that's fine. I just disagree because I don't see any of that honestly. And I have no agenda here. I give full props to Fowler who I don't care about either but whoever picks him up and uses him right will have a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years I think. At least a very good chance of that happening. With Dupree I think it's more likely you'll end up getting a bust, but obviously there's an outside chance he'll turn out to be good. I'm not saying one guy will be a success/failure for sure because that'd be nonsense. We don't know. I'm going by the odds and what I'd do if I were to GM a team. That's it from me. We shall see what happens.

[dbatesman]

I don't base my evals on combine numbers, I base them on how guys play, but it's not like I bother to "study" how guys play or something

[T0mShane]

I don't base my evals on combine numbers, I base them on how guys play, but it's not like I bother to "study" how guys play or something

I know what my eyes tell me and they're telling me ur a moron ok

[dbatesman]

I know what my eyes tell me and they're telling me ur a moron ok

Why dont you watch some real game footage, like I did for this one player in one game

[T0mShane]

Why dont you watch some real game footage, like I did for this one player in one game

Plz u don't even have 1 Matt miller blurb to back up ur hogwash

[T0mShane]

My grandmother was killed by a man who blew up at the combine so

[dbatesman]

My grandmother was killed by a man who blew up at the combine so

Sounds like the killer was a high-motor type