derp Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Yeah, some think Kikaha might slip a bit due to questions on injuries/athleticism but productive pass rushers tend to translate. There are definitely scenarios where they don't go OLB in the first two rounds and if that happens and Kikaha slips a bit I wouldn't mind if they pounce. Injuries are the bigger concern with him IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Kikaha isn't really the kind of player that would be in the conversation at 6 but I think he's really good. Similar to Bjoern Werner when he was coming out. Not a great athlete compared to a lot of these other guys but he's just good at everything. The board still looks like tackle all day in the second but this guy would be a good pick if we go WR in the first. Aren't his knees a plate of spaghetti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Your thoughts on Eli Harold, Lorenzo Mauldin, and Davis Tull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 One thing that's interesting to me is how popular Fowler is. There seem to be no production question marks for him, but he had 1 more sack than Dupree last year and only 14.5 total for his three year college career. Plus 3 of those 8.5 sacks last year came against East Carolina. Fowler's certainly a good prospect, but the seemingly universal love for him confuses me a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I had Harold go to the Jets in the 2nd in my last mock. Looks to be not super far off that top tier. I prefer Jethro Tull to Davis Tull. Lorenzo Maudlin sounds like a made up name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 One thing that's interesting to me is how popular Fowler is. There seem to be no production question marks for him, but he had 1 more sack than Dupree last year and only 14.5 total for his three year college career. Plus 3 of those 8.5 sacks last year came against East Carolina. Fowler's certainly a good prospect, but the seemingly universal love for him confuses me a bit. I would imagine a lot of his lack of production would come from playing all over Florida's defensive line: he played DT and DE as well as OLB. I think he's probably the best example of a kid who's going to be better in the pros than in college, and he was pretty damned good in college. I can't really speak on Bud, I think I watched one or two Kentucky games all year and it certainly wasn't because I was actively watching Kentucky, but the kid is an athletic freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I had Harold go to the Jets in the 2nd in my last mock. others have done the same that usually means he goes late 1 the pass rushers will go quickly and teams looking for an option at the start or 2 will probably be sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I would imagine a lot of his lack of production would come from playing all over Florida's defensive line: he played DT and DE as well as OLB. I think he's probably the best example of a kid who's going to be better in the pros than in college, and he was pretty damned good in college. I can't really speak on Bud, I think I watched one or two Kentucky games all year and it certainly wasn't because I was actively watching Kentucky, but the kid is an athletic freak. It's not that I haven't watched Fowler, I'm aware of how much he was moved around. Just not sure why he gets a pass on the lack of production. I didn't think he really consistently impacted plays either. Maybe I just watched some bad games, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's not that I haven't watched Fowler, I'm aware of how much he was moved around. Just not sure why he gets a pass on the lack of production. I didn't think he really consistently impacted plays either. Maybe I just watched some bad games, I dunno. Well, you wouldn't exactly expect him to have the same level of statistical production given that he played a number of snaps at DT etc. compared to another player who primarily played as an OLB right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's not that I haven't watched Fowler, I'm aware of how much he was moved around. Just not sure why he gets a pass on the lack of production. I didn't think he really consistently impacted plays either. Maybe I just watched some bad games, I dunno. I've been wondering the same thing myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 my list is real short at 6 it's Fowler or Dupree. One of those two should be there. I like those players over Beasley, Gregory, Ray etc. + 1. That's where Im at...I'd be very excited about seeing either of them in this D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hau'oli Kikaha (washington) 6'2 253 32 1/2 arm length No on field drills at the combine (Illness. Pro Day is April 2nd) Sacks last two years 19, 13 Kikaha had two ACL tears early in his college career but has played in all but 1 game the last two years and has racked up 32 sacks in his last 26 games and had 14 consecutive games where he registered a sack. That streak ended this past Nov. 15th against Arizona, after that game he went on a 3 game sack streak to end his college career. I wonder about physicality and durability, definitely not an option for 6. His production is undeniable. NFL.com compares him to Ninkovich, which is probably reasonable and worth having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's not that I haven't watched Fowler, I'm aware of how much he was moved around. Just not sure why he gets a pass on the lack of production. I didn't think he really consistently impacted plays either. Maybe I just watched some bad games, I dunno. Well, you wouldn't exactly expect him to have the same level of statistical production given that he played a number of snaps at DT etc. compared to another player who primarily played as an OLB right? That's exactly why. And he actually did produce if you consider the positions he was often playing. It was frustrating as a fan. He would line up on the edge, get a sack or tackle for loss and then the next play is lined up on under the center. He was very productive for that defense. Made plays all over the field. Look at his stats compared to the rest of the team. He was the heart of those defenses that were very good. Not a lone player on a bad defense making all the plays. His college stats are better than Justin Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Yea, Fowler and Dupree are the only OLB prospects I want at 6. Really, it's mostly Dupree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Read this if you think combine numbers don't matter for pass rushers http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Fowler versatility fits Bowles style, no? I'll let YouTube decide....on my brand new 60" smart TV !!! **** yeah!!! C'mon football season!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Eh...wasn't like coaches film I guess, but both guys look like beasts. Duprees first three steps look like lights out. Fowlers all over the place. I'd be damn happy with either one. Feels like forever since we've had a legit pass rush presence on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I wonder about physicality and durability, definitely not an option for 6. His production is undeniable. NFL.com compares him to a Ninkovich type, which is probably reasonable and worth having. Definitely an option at #5 in the 2nd round. questions about his durability is legit, though he did play two years straight after those ACL tears. Guy plays super smart, can rush the passer and drop down into coverage. Whoever drafts this guy is going to get a good football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Well, you wouldn't exactly expect him to have the same level of statistical production given that he played a number of snaps at DT etc. compared to another player who primarily played as an OLB right? No. But it's not the end of the world either. Playing defensive tackle with his size, strength, and athleticism should give him an opportunity to go up against guards who should be substantially inferior athletically. Guys like Aldon Smith and Melvin Ingram made a killing kicking inside to play against guards in college. That's exactly why. And he actually did produce if you consider the positions he was often playing. It was frustrating as a fan. He would line up on the edge, get a sack or tackle for loss and then the next play is lined up on under the center. He was very productive for that defense. Made plays all over the field. Look at his stats compared to the rest of the team. He was the heart of those defenses that were very good. Not a lone player on a bad defense making all the plays. His college stats are better than Justin Houston. Sack wise, they're not better than Houston's actually. And Houston went what, in the third round? Again, I think I think he's a very good prospect. Potentially worthy of taking at 6. But he's made out to be a can't miss guy, and that I don't see. Could easily see him being a versatile guy who has a level of production in the pros but never becomes an elite pass rusher - kind of a-la Bryan Thomas which is a comp I've seen throw out there. Maybe not. I don't know. But I don't think he's a can't miss double digit sack annually guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 To remain consistently annoying and repetitious Fowler Jr's vertical scares the living crap out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Aren't his knees a plate of spaghetti? I just ignore stuff I have no way of knowing. There's no principled way of splitting the difference. I'll dock for dumb but injuries and character aren't my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAD_Brooklyn Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Dupree is too risky drafting top 10. He has upside but in no way a top performer. In most mocks they have us picking him after trading out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 No. But it's not the end of the world either. Playing defensive tackle with his size, strength, and athleticism should give him an opportunity to go up against guards who should be substantially inferior athletically. Guys like Aldon Smith and Melvin Ingram made a killing kicking inside to play against guards in college. Sack wise, they're not better than Houston's actually. And Houston went what, in the third round? Again, I think I think he's a very good prospect. Potentially worthy of taking at 6. But he's made out to be a can't miss guy, and that I don't see. Could easily see him being a versatile guy who has a level of production in the pros but never becomes an elite pass rusher - kind of a-la Bryan Thomas which is a comp I've seen throw out there. Maybe not. I don't know. But I don't think he's a can't miss double digit sack annually guy. Actually I have and Bryan Thomas is exactly who Bud Dupree reminds me of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 ] To remain consistently annoying and repetitious Fowler Jr's vertical scares the living crap out of me. Can't be annoying if it's a good point, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Sack wise, they're not better than Houston's actually. And Houston went what, in the third round? Again, I think I think he's a very good prospect. Potentially worthy of taking at 6. But he's made out to be a can't miss guy, and that I don't see. Could easily see him being a versatile guy who has a level of production in the pros but never becomes an elite pass rusher - kind of a-la Bryan Thomas which is a comp I've seen throw out there. Maybe not. I don't know. But I don't think he's a can't miss double digit sack annually guy. Houston had what, a sack more and I meant career wise but either way that wasn't the point. Is there ever a can't miss double digit sack annually? I get your concern, part of me wonders if I werent a gator if I'd prefer Dupree. Probably but getting to watch Fowler every week was a lot of fun. Guy was incredible. He can just completely devistate an oline and disrupt an offenses rythym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Read this if you think combine numbers don't matter for pass rushers http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439601 I don't need fancy stats to tell me what my eyes already see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Houston had what, a sack more and I meant career wise but either way that wasn't the point. Is there ever a can't miss double digit sack annually? I get your concern, part of me wonders if I werent a gator if I'd prefer Dupree. Probably but getting to watch Fowler every week was a lot of fun. Guy was incredible. He can just completely devistate an oline and disrupt an offenses rythym. Houston had a sack and a half more as a junior, actually five and a half more career wise if the site I'm looking at is correct. Again, definitely think he's a solid prospect. I'd take him over Dupree and I'm not a Florida fan. It's just weird that everybody wants Fowler and nobody questions the 14.5 career sacks, etc. The draft is more fun when there's some lively debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Beaslys 2014 numbers being ignored in this thread? 34 tackes, 21 tackes for loss, and 12 sacks. Nice year. I'm excited about at least one of these guys being available at 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Skill beats size, heart beats talent. We need more Klecko's in this league and less Gholston's. I'm quoting this and pretending I said it from now on. Just so you know. Hell I may even get a tattoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 others have done the same that usually means he goes late 1 the pass rushers will go quickly and teams looking for an option at the start or 2 will probably be sad Eh? that usually means he goes late one? Why would you say that? There are a lot of good prospecfs and this is the normal silly comment provijding no context. It is amazing this time of year that 40 players are go in the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'm quoting this and pretending I said it from now on. Just so you know. Hell I may even get a tattoo. Thanks. Oh and make sure you post a picture when it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Houston had a sack and a half more as a junior, actually five and a half more career wise if the site I'm looking at is correct. Again, definitely think he's a solid prospect. I'd take him over Dupree and I'm not a Florida fan. It's just weird that everybody wants Fowler and nobody questions the 14.5 career sacks, etc. The draft is more fun when there's some lively debate. You're right. I was looking at the wrong stats. But again, if your comparing his stats to the rest of the team, they stand out. Lots of tackles for loss, FF, sacks, etc. He makes plays and he makes them at numerous different positions. And his stats were absolutely impacted by the way he was used. All I can say as someone who's watched every game he played in college is he's an extremely disruptive force. He can take over a game and completely throw off the rhythm of the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Casserly's mock is a dream scenario where the Jets trade back and still land Dupree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Casserly's mock is a dream scenario where the Jets trade back and still land Dupree. Theoretically, he's the guy who would be most familiar with Maccagnan's thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Id be happy with the teams decision on Beasley, Dupree and Fowler..if they picked someone other than those three, I'd be bummed. I've been screaming for an edge presence for years. Who, of the OLBs, has the best combination of... 1) quickest burst from stance or standing? 2) pass coverage skills? 3) weight? 4) gets off blocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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