Is it fair to judge Geno Smith on this one game?

[nyjunc]

one thing was clear watching yesterday's game, that fitz is way better than geno in his decision making.  fitz goes thru his reads and runs when he sees the play isn't happening.  geno sits there (when he doesn't throw the ball in triple coverage to the guy he decided he'd throw it to before the snap) and looks like he doesn't know what to do with the ball, and then when he decides to bail on the play (several seconds after fitz would) it's too late.

Fitz is a better runner, his reads are usually 1:Marshall 2) Marshall 3)Marshall 4)decker 5)run

[Augustiniak]

Exactly

One of Geno's biggest flaws (and it happens to most young QB's) is his lack of ability to navigate in the pocket . If his first read is not there he turns and runs right into the pressure on the outside (where the tackles are pushing the pressure) he does it all the time rather than just stepping up. He plays the game like he's afraid to get hit and once you get into that habit you are Done as a QB in the NFL. Its obvious to me he does not like to step up and play the game in close quarters inside the pocket combine that with all his other flaws and no speed or strong arm will ever make up for that.

fitz has a feel for the position and the pocket and looks confident in that he knows exactly where he needs to look during the play.  geno stands in the pocket looking worried and confused, and takes longer to see everything.  he makes some nice throws, but you just don't get the sense that he's going to turn the corner and eliminate the bonehead throws and sacks to become a real long term starter.  give me petty who at least gets the ball out quicker.  

[Augustiniak]

Fitz is a better runner, his reads are usually 1:Marshall 2) Marshall 3)Marshall 4)decker 5)run

fitz has good chemistry with decker and kerley was also getting involved.  the first drive was good and the 2nd was looking good.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I think it's fair to judge him based on the end. The early throws, and early criticism accompanying it, were just dumb. He's cold off the bench and, as I mentioned a couple of times already, Geno may be the only QB in the NFL right now - starter or backup - who didn't get so much as one pass attempt in one preseason game (let alone any live action since the regular season started). 

The end of the game McGoo-isms are unchanged from last season and fair to judge harshly. Yes, it's overwhelmingly - some would say all, and it's a valid opinion - on Geno. Yes, it generally gets better with experience (at this stage in his career, Fitz was still being benched for the 2nd consecutive season), but he knows what he did himself to close out games badly in the past. 

It's also a huge indictment of Gailey IMO. My last post in the game thread was about this. Knowing what even casual posters here know about Geno, he has to repeat EVERY PLAY what his general game-situation awareness should be. Right into Geno's helmet after calling in the play. "OK remember it's 3rd down and time's a factor. If you don't see an open man, throw it away." Or, "Remember you cannot take a sack here. We can't stop the clock and there's no punting anymore." However he wants to abbreviate it to get the message out. But Geno clearly needs this reminder every play and, while it's possible he's getting it, I doubt it.

More likely, Gailey is assuming Geno knows it because he told him a few minutes ago. And he may know it if asked but it isn't second nature for him to remember it yet (if it ever will). Telling him 2 or 3 plays ago isn't often enough for a QB like Geno and it won't be enough should they put Petty in either. It's just not enough to tell him in a film session after the game, "C'mon you need to know what the situation is here." Same with calling for a deep pass on 3rd & short (which he maddeningly does with Fitz as well). He has to remind Geno if his guy isn't all alone to look for the higher-percentage shorter play, either a checkdown pass or with his feet. 

He has to be a QBC calling in advice/tips and an OC calling plays in these crucial situations, whether he likes it or not. The "bonus" with doing this is it will accelerate the path to this becoming more automatic, to the point where these reminders won't be as necessary. 

Sorry, but you've got to be kidding. A third year NFL quarterback requires that level of hand-holding and instruction in real time? That's about as severe an indictment of Geno's unworthiness to be an NFL quarterback as one could make. He's just an imbecile when it comes to making decisions on the field. Fitzpatrick is an average QB, but he generally plays within his skill-set. Geno imagines himself to be Aaron Rodgers and immediately gets burned for his hubris. He's a bad QB. Bad QB's make good plays in the NFL occasionally. But that's the point. That's why they're bad. Next you'll be proposing a color-coded play scheme he can wear on his wrist. Geez.

[nyjunc]

fitz has good chemistry with decker and kerley was also getting involved.  the first drive was good and the 2nd was looking good.

Fitz only played a half of one series.  geno came in at the 43 after the scramble and led us into FG range.

[Pac]

You were impressed with his lack of awareness ? Were you impressed with him still not stepping up into the pocket and creating his own pressure by walking into where the OL was blocking the outside rushers ????????????????????????????????????????????

Do you realize why QB should step up into the pocket ? Fitz does it all the time, something we have not seen here in years. Geno almost NEVER does it. Did you check out his slingshot delivery ?? Its slow and its not changing . Good arm does NOT equal quick release. For instance Fitz has a weak arm but a very quick release do you know what that means in the short passing game ?? It means everything

Did you notice him throwing to his first read damn near everytime ??? What in the hell were you watching to say he impressed ??

Did you see him constantly throwing off his back foot ?? Sure his arm can make up for that occasionally but in the real world it makes the ball sail on you and we saw that for 2 freakin years and we saw it yesterday.

You've lost all objectiviy..  been infected with this virus that's been going on around here.

There is no universe in which Geno Smith is thrust into action for the first time in almost a year and plays lights out ball.  What he did yesterday when he settled in was impressive and I look forward to seeing what he will do in the coming weeks.

You and the start Petty Platoon are out of your ever loving minds.  There is no Bryce Petty this year..  there is no red headed stroke from the Bucs coming to save the day..  We have Geno Smith and perhaps Matthew Flynn backing him up.  Get used to it..  take up yoga or meditation or whatever you need to come to grips with it but Geno time is happening.

 

[Smashmouth]

fitz has a feel for the position and the pocket and looks confident in that he knows exactly where he needs to look during the play.  geno stands in the pocket looking worried and confused, and takes longer to see everything.  he makes some nice throws, but you just don't get the sense that he's going to turn the corner and eliminate the bonehead throws and sacks to become a real long term starter.  give me petty who at least gets the ball out quicker.  

At this point it would not be a terrible decision to put Petty in there and start out with a conservative game plan while he gets comfortable. Short quick passes give him some help creating mismatches and in case everyone forgot Gailey can run the spread offense something Petty is quite used too. I would much rather see him for a game or two than some scrub off the street like Flynn who has absolutly zero future here. I mean after all at some stage you have to see what you got and he has had an entire offseason and 7 games and a bye to learn the offense. I hope he's taking snaps on Tuesday with the ones

[Jet Nut]

You'd never see Fitz take two sacks like Geno did yesterday when all he had to do was throw the ball away.

You don't know what Fitz would have done at the end of a game, losing by 21 and trying to make something happen.

Its amazing how many dumb plays QBs make it Nader those circumstances.  

[Smashmouth]

You've lost all objectiviy..  been infected with this virus that's been going on around here.

There is no universe in which Geno Smith is thrust into action for the first time in almost a year and plays lights out ball.  What he did yesterday when he settled in was impressive and I look forward to seeing what he will do in the coming weeks.

You and the start Petty Platoon are out of your ever loving minds.  There is no Bryce Petty this year..  there is no red headed stroke from the Bucs coming to save the day..  We have Geno Smith and perhaps Matthew Flynn backing him up.  Get used to it..  take up yoga or meditation or whatever you need to come to grips with it but Geno time is happening.

 

PAC im not asking for lights out ball NO ONE IS ! We are just asking for him to do the bare minimum and not play like an Idiot and continue with the bad habits . Completeing a nice pass here and there does not show promise when he still has the same old flaws in his game .

[KRL]

 This thread will go on for at least 10+ pages and no one's opinion will change.  My hope is

Smith has used the past 3 months learning the "boring" things Fitzpatrick bought to the offense

and can incorporate them into his game.  With a full week of practice, Mangold coming back

and a favorable schedule he doesn't have any excuses left 

[Jet Nut]

PAC im not asking for lights out ball NO ONE IS ! We are just asking for him to do the bare minimum and not play like an Idiot and continue with the bad habits . Completeing a nice pass here and there does not show promise when he still has the same old flaws in his game .

so you don't think Geno did even the bare minimum yesterday?  

 

[bostonmajet]

The loss yesterday is NOT on Geno.  It is also hard to step in from the #2 position without the reps and the practice even though it is the job of the #2.  The defense let the team down and the offense isn't good enough to win with the injuries they have had even had Fitz not gotten hurt.

That being said, I still think Geno is not now, nor is he going to be the Jets future.  He will start as he is the best option.  His problem isn't rust, or talent, or even talent around him.  He is still making the same mistakes he always makes.  His problem is mental, he takes bad sacks, doesn't throw the ball away, can't read defenses.  He has a wealth of athletic talent, but the lights have not come on yet.

Should the Jets trade away a ton of picks (or even 1) to get a starter who doesn't know the system and isn't likely to be better than Geno? No.  Should they rush Petty in? No.  Geno will start until Fitz is back.  Hopefully we win at least half of the games so we can still be in the running.  Maybe, he even surprises me and plays well, but I still think Geno isn't on this team next year.  

[nyjunc]

PAC im not asking for lights out ball NO ONE IS ! We are just asking for him to do the bare minimum and not play like an Idiot and continue with the bad habits . Completeing a nice pass here and there does not show promise when he still has the same old flaws in his game .

unfortunately he isn't a flawless QB like Fitz

[Augustiniak]

Fitz only played a half of one series.  geno came in at the 43 after the scramble and led us into FG range.

[jetfan61]

Thats fair. Geno has the potential physically, we seen it yesterday. We also seen what guys like you have been talking about regarding his awareness and decision making. 

 

The good news is this. You cant teach physical traits. Either you have it or you dont. However, mentally you can always learn. Some are slower than others, but with enough grind anyone can learn. 

Those two late sacks were beyond stupid!!!  Even my wife (a casual football fan) was screaming "throw it away!!!"

 

[Smashmouth]

Just to clarify Im in no way putting yesterdays loss on Geno The entire team played bad. My points on Geno are what I have been seeing the past 2 years and it seems nothing has changed. Its really that simple.

[Augustiniak]

Just to clarify Im in no way putting yesterdays loss on Geno The entire team played bad. My points on Geno are what I have been seeing the past 2 years and it seems nothing has changed. Its really that simple.

it's frustrating to watch the guy make the same mistakes he made his rookie year.  they would have been magnified if the defense had showed up and the game was close, and then he's taking sacks, etc.  he makes some good throws, but you don't get the feeling he's ever going to learn to correct the little things to become as effective as a guy like fitz.

[Snell41]

You've lost all objectiviy..  been infected with this virus that's been going on around here.

There is no universe in which Geno Smith is thrust into action for the first time in almost a year and plays lights out ball.  What he did yesterday when he settled in was impressive and I look forward to seeing what he will do in the coming weeks.

You and the start Petty Platoon are out of your ever loving minds.  There is no Bryce Petty this year..  there is no red headed stroke from the Bucs coming to save the day..  We have Geno Smith and perhaps Matthew Flynn backing him up.  Get used to it..  take up yoga or meditation or whatever you need to come to grips with it but Geno time is happening.

 

Geno played ok, I'll give that.  His first 3 plays trying to throw bombs is forgivable.  He was just trying to do too much.  Not going out of bounds on that long run was idiotic.  But when he went out of bounds to take a sack.... that's something he has done notoriously and it's beyond stupid.  That's football 101.  Even further is he let the defender push him back when he just gave up on the play and saunter out of bounds, which kept the clock running, but EVEN WORSE than that was the fact he just dilly dallied out of bounds thinking the clock was stopped.  I don't think we punted there because Bowles thought it was the right thing to do, I think we punted because coach saw his QB off in space by the wall on the sideline thinking the clock is stopped and realized we have no chance.  But then to do it AGAIN the next drive.  You just know someone on the sideline said something to him to throw that ball away, yet he goes out again and takes another sack.  The problem with Geno is the moment he doesn't see his first option, all hell is breaking loose and dangerous/stupid things start to happen.  With Fitz when things broke down he knew to just get rid of it and live to see another play.  What I saw of Geno yesterday told me he's learned absolutely nothing about being a mature QB. 

 

[Augustiniak]

Geno played ok, I'll give that.  His first 3 plays trying to throw bombs is forgivable.  He was just trying to do too much.  Not going out of bounds on that long run was idiotic.  But when he went out of bounds to take a sack.... that's something he has done notoriously and it's beyond stupid.  That's football 101.  Even further is he let the defender push him back when he just gave up on the play and saunter out of bounds, which kept the clock running, but EVEN WORSE than that was the fact he just dilly dallied out of bounds thinking the clock was stopped.  I don't think we punted there because Bowles thought it was the right thing to do, I think we punted because coach saw his QB off in space by the wall on the sideline thinking the clock is stopped and realized we have no chance.  But then to do it AGAIN the next drive.  You just know someone on the sideline said something to him to throw that ball away, yet he goes out again and takes another sack.  The problem with Geno is the moment he doesn't see his first option, all hell is breaking loose and dangerous/stupid things start to happen.  With Fitz when things broke down he knew to just get rid of it and live to see another play.  What I saw of Geno yesterday told me he's learned absolutely nothing about being a mature QB. 

 

bingo.

[CrazyCarl40]

 This thread will go on for at least 10+ pages and no one's opinion will change.  My hope is

Smith has used the past 3 months learning the "boring" things Fitzpatrick bought to the offense

and can incorporate them into his game.  With a full week of practice, Mangold coming back

and a favorable schedule he doesn't have any excuses left 

That's probably the best way to look at it. This is Geno's last, best chance. It's completely on him. Sink or swim time. And if yesterday was any indication, I don't think he's going to make it to shore. He doesn't look like he's learned from past mistakes and his accuracy on many balls leaves much to be desired.

[joewilly12]

That's probably the best way to look at it. This is Geno's last, best chance. It's completely on him. Sink or swim time. And if yesterday was any indication, I don't think he's going to make it to shore. He doesn't look like he's learned from past mistakes and his accuracy on many balls leaves much to be desired.

Lets see what he looks like after a week of practice with the starters and a game plan designed for him. If he fails he's done I agree. 

[Matt39]

Just to clarify Im in no way putting yesterdays loss on Geno The entire team played bad. My points on Geno are what I have been seeing the past 2 years and it seems nothing has changed. Its really that simple.

Your points were accurate. Geno is clumsy in the pocket and has a baseball like windup on his passes. He just looks uncoordinated. When he's given a clean pocket he throws a nice ball, it's just rare to be given that in the league.

[nyjunc]

I get bashing the guy over the sacks, I understand that and those are valid points but minus those 2 plays he played very well.  we must include them and I think w/ them he played well especially considering the circumstances.  He threw it accurately and w/ some zip, that deep ball to marshall was the nicest deep ball by far that we have seen this season.  he was in a tough spot and gave us a remote chance, unfortunately the oak O just humiliated our D.

[Smashmouth]

so you don't think Geno did even the bare minimum yesterday?  

 

The things that I expected to see improvement in did not occur . His lack of urgency and his terrible awareness at the position is disturbing.

 If you think Geno Smith is the type of QB that can lead an offense to any type of consistency then you are really not paying attention to what Geno is actually doing at the QB position. Please don't argue with me because Geno throws a nice pass or has a good game now and then. Look at his game and all the flaws that go with it and tell me this kid can beat good to great defenses.

Watch the game yesterday and tell me how many times Geno stepped up into the pocket .....

Watch the game and tell me how many times Geno threw off his back foot....

Watch the game and tell me how many times Geno ran backwards right into the teeth of the pass rush while the Tackles were trying to create a pocket......

Watch the game and see how many critical mistakes Geno made that were simple football decisions that Geno can't make because the pressure is something he simply can not deal with.

These are not flaws from lack of action these are flaws he's had his entire career. Timing with his receivers is something that is lost due to lack of practice with the first stringers and that means nothing if all the other flaws still exist

 

If you do not notice these flaws you simply do not understand the QB position at all. Im not going to argue the point further because the flaws I'm pointing out are Obvious they are not a matter of opinion because its right there on video for you to watch. If your going to deny whats obvious then I can't help you.

[Augustiniak]

I get bashing the guy over the sacks, I understand that and those are valid points but minus those 2 plays he played very well.  we must include them and I think w/ them he played well especially considering the circumstances.  He threw it accurately and w/ some zip, that deep ball to marshall was the nicest deep ball by far that we have seen this season.  he was in a tough spot and gave us a remote chance, unfortunately the oak O just humiliated our D.

dont forget the pick and the times he threw to marshall in the endzone in triple coverage.  there are too many of these plays.  there are other qbs who make fewer bad plays.

[Dcat]

Just to clarify Im in no way putting yesterdays loss on Geno The entire team played bad. My points on Geno are what I have been seeing the past 2 years and it seems nothing has changed. Its really that simple.

it's nearly impossible to grow a brain in just 2 years.

[New York Mick]

He ******* sucks and has no place in the NFL outside of 3rd string.

Enough of this project it failed move on to the next one. There's a half of season left to see if Petty can play or not. If he can or shows potential then keep Fritz drop Geno (on his ******* head from the top of 432 Park Avenue) and draft a later round QB. If he can't keep Fritz drop Geno (on his ******* head from the top of 432 Park Avenue) sign another vet and draft a QB with the first pick. 

Enough already with holding on to sh*tty QBs. 

[joewilly12]

He ******* sucks and has no place in the NFL outside of 3rd string.

Enough of this project it failed move on to the next one. There's a half of season left to see if Petty can play or not. If he can or shows potential then keep Fritz drop Geno (on his ******* head from the top of 432 Park Avenue) and draft a later round QB. If he can't keep Fritz drop Geno (on his ******* head from the top of 432 Park Avenue) sign another vet and draft a QB with the first pick. 

Enough already with holding on to sh*tty QBs. 

So you dont like Bryce Petty? 

[chirorob]

People who follow these things know where I stand on the Geno Smith question but, as sometimes happens, the mind plays tricks and you sometimes question your own first instincts.

On the one hand it was a hostile environment that he got thrown into where the entire team was playing badly. He did manage to move the ball for scores on several occasions. On the other hand we saw very poor decision masking on several occasions. Just plain old boneheaded Geno. The exact kind of thing that many of us have predicted would not change.

Obviously (to me anyway) if Fitz is not able to play Geno gets the rest of the year but is it fair to draw conclusions about what we have in Geno based on less than one whole game?

He didn't play that bad.  He missed a throw to Marshal in the end zone, and threw a bad pick.  But he played better, and what do you expect from a guy who hasn't been taking 1st team reps or been on the field since he got punched.

[Smashmouth]

Those two late sacks were beyond stupid!!!  Even my wife (a casual football fan) was screaming "throw it away!!!"

 

LOL my wife was screaming the same thing. My wife is a better QB than Geno so is yours

[nyjunc]

dont forget the pick and the times he threw to marshall in the endzone in triple coverage.  there are too many of these plays.  there are other qbs who make fewer bad plays.

when Fitz was QB I was told his INts didn't hurt us so no big deal.  Geno's INT didn't hurt us.

when Fitz was QB I was told he was giving his WRs a chance to make a play when throwing up to double/triple coverage.  and he gave his WR a chance, I think Marshall got interfered w/ on that play.  he got the ball over the safety.

 

why is it different now?

[Beerfish]

Geno is nothing but consistent, that was the exact Geno we have had the last two years, this won't change for his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th start.  Nice arm, makes some good plays, follows them up with some horrible plays.  He gets rattled far too easily when facing pressure.  As others have said though we have lost the last two games because our all world defense has stunk it up.

[Augustiniak]

when Fitz was QB I was told his INts didn't hurt us so no big deal.  Geno's INT didn't hurt us.

when Fitz was QB I was told he was giving his WRs a chance to make a play when throwing up to double/triple coverage.  and he gave his WR a chance, I think Marshall got interfered w/ on that play.  he got the ball over the safety.

 

why is it different now?

it's not.  the difference is, fitz is an 11 year veteran who has maxed out a career being a student of the game, offering savvy and leadership and an understanding of the offense that resulted in a 4-2 start.  he's not someone the organization intends to build a team around, it's understood he's a stop gap qb and hopefully the bridge to a better qb.

 

geno looks as if he's never going to correct any of the mistakes he's made since his rookie year, and does not appear to be someone any organization would want to build a team around.  

[Jetster]

That's probably the best way to look at it. This is Geno's last, best chance. It's completely on him. Sink or swim time. And if yesterday was any indication, I don't think he's going to make it to shore. He doesn't look like he's learned from past mistakes and his accuracy on many balls leaves much to be desired.

This is the best thing that could happen. It sucks but Fitzy isn't good enough to overcome the injuries either, he proved that in the Eagles game (3 picks). We'd have tarred & feathered Geno for the same. And let's not fool ourselves, Fitz came close to 4 picks vs the Pats he just got lucky. All those things catch up to game managers. 

Now we don't have to worry about next year regarding Geno. Sink or swim with him. A lot of you guys were worried about him not being exposed this year. Well, don't have to worry about that if he's healthy he's playing. Maybe he'll surprise us. You just never know, he hasn't had live action since last December. I wouldn't bet on it but I also think he was feeling his oats yesterday a little too much & went out there with an "I'm gonna show them attitude" and tried to do too much, extending plays ect. We all have to remember that we haven't beat a team with a winning record ALL YEAR. Geno might have had us in the same situation or better for all we know? Brownies @ home, Indy @ Indy (they suck & we only scored 17 points),  Skins @ home, Fins in London, Not for nothing but the way our defense played in our wins any journeyman QB would probably have tasted victory. Like always the Fitzmagic sh*t was way overblown. 

[Snell41]

I get bashing the guy over the sacks, I understand that and those are valid points but minus those 2 plays he played very well.  we must include them and I think w/ them he played well especially considering the circumstances.  He threw it accurately and w/ some zip, that deep ball to marshall was the nicest deep ball by far that we have seen this season.  he was in a tough spot and gave us a remote chance, unfortunately the oak O just humiliated our D.

He plays fine when the design of the play works and the first, maybe 2nd option are open.  He throws a good ball for sure.  But he has a 10 cent brain.  3 plays where he did the absolute unthinkable.  Id' have been more optimistic if he was off target with his throws but smart with the ball.  I could attribute that to rust.  But stupid is as stupid does, and man when plays break down just hold on to your hat because some bad sh*t is about to go down.