Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[Smashmouth]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And how many easily catchable passes were dropped last season, even by Marshall?  If we're going to just double Fitz's INT total just because Jaws says so, I can clearly remember in my mind at least 4-5 extra TD's Fitz "should have" had as well. 

Not to mention a few more wins which would have got us in the playoffs.

[Big Blocker]

16 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

And the more this goes on, the more it looks like that "leverage" exists only in the minds of Fitzpatrick and his agent.  Everything the Jets have done for this whole process indicates that they preparing to go with Geno if Fitz does not take what they are offering.  Your idea of how much more Fitz is worth than Geno apparently does not correspond to the Jets' idea of how much more Fitz is worth than Geno.  Remember, it's not [Fitz] vs [Geno], it's [Fitz] vs [Geno + the better players the Jets can sign with the money they aren't paying Fitz].

"the Jets' idea" - meaning who exactly???  Bowles is awfully clear he wants Fitzpatrick back.  So are all of Marshall, Decker and Revis.  Has a single player indicated they prefer Fitzpatrick does not come back?

As for money, the Jets are not heavily weighted toward money to Qb compared to other teams, and would not be even if they gave Fitzpatrick what he is asking for.  Who says the Jets should build their roster by underpaying at Qb?

As for leverage, the fact that Smith sucks IS A FACT and is not merely in anyone's mind, although it probably should be more in yours.

[Big Blocker]

12 hours ago, ljr said:

The Jets certainly do not believe Geno to be worth  3 years at 6 mil per year with 6 more mil signing bonus &  a total of 15 of that guaranteed !

Excellent point.  There is a very good chance Smith will not be on the roster, either by next season or sooner.

[Big Blocker]

9 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

12 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

 

 Lol come on man that is such bs.. There are only a few teams that are "locked in " to their qbs.. Are you saying if tom Brady was a FA he would unsigned right now because " well there are not any open qb spots this year " sorry Tom.. The other teams just have better options than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Not only better options but most at a much better value than what fitz wants.. Fitz has been a backup most of his career, only getting playing time when other guys got hurt.. 

If I understand your post correctly, this is both a ridiculous and off the point post.  NO ONE is saying Fitzpatrick is another Tom Brady. 

So what if there are 25 or more Qb's who are better than or equal to Fitzpatrick?  Which one of them should the Jets sign instead, or are available?

The alternative is G Smith, who blows chunks.  Not Tom Brady.

[JohnnyLV]

7 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

If I understand your post correctly, this is both a ridiculous and off the point post.  NO ONE is saying Fitzpatrick is another Tom Brady. 

So what if there are 25 or more Qb's who are better than or equal to Fitzpatrick?  Which one of them should the Jets sign instead, or are available?

The alternative is G Smith, who blows chunks.  Not Tom Brady.

Just stating Geno "sucks" is not an argument. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Not to mention a few more wins which would have got us in the playoffs.

Name them. Which dropped passes turned 3 or more sure wins into actual losses more than Fitzpatrick's own ineptness, in a way other QBs don't have to deal with and overcome.

The "blame everyone else" excuses for this glorified backup knows no bounds. Every drop was more than offset by acrobatic catches on shoulda-been incomplete passes. Hell, one of the actual picks was actually stolen back by Marshall 1 second later.

You'd think our awesome pair of WRs were a freaking liability to hear you recap the season. 

Basically, when they rescue Fitz, or are so wide open Brooks Bollinger would have little trouble completing the pass, credit goes to Fitzpatrick because stats and stuff against terrible and weakened teams. When they drop a pass, though, that absolves Fitz of all wrongdoing and sh*tty play, and were the true barriers to missing the playoffs. Lol.

[southparkcpa]

On 4/13/2016 at 3:11 PM, maury77 said:

I think the Jets should bring in Hoyer for a visit to turn the pressure up on Fitz (even if they don't have any interest in signing Hoyer). Fitz needs to realize this is a buyer's market at this stage, he's like a jackass trying to sell his home for 250k when it appraises for 150

[nyjunc]

12 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Not to mention that stretch where Marshsll made bone-headed game altering mistakes a few weeks in a row. All on Fitz.

which weeks were those?  the lateral against Philly?  yeah it was stupid but Fitz killld us w/ TOs in the 4th qtr that day in a very winnable game.  the dropped base vs. NE? last I checked we got the ball down just 3 at our 30 on our next possession.  what did the great Fitz do? got us to the 46 and we punted but when we went down 10 he led us right down the field for a FG w/ 20 secs left!  clutch!

 

Marshall was the biggest reason we won 10 games, he made some mistakes but more than made up for it including trying to will that QB to the playoffs in week 17 but Fitz would not allow him to drag him along.

 

Fitz is nothing more than average, he had good stretches last year w/ exceptional talent around him, he also cost us numerous games and kept bad teams in games against us in wins.

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The same. Missed tackles are important, dropped passes are important, fumbles that were recovered by a teammate...all of these things are a view into how likely a person is to repeat. Otherwise what one is betting on is a repetition of unlikely luck. 

If a QB throws a pick right at a defender and it's simply dropped by the defender, the throw is just as bad as the same pass that isn't dropped by the defender. Whether picked off or not, the pass was equally as bad.

To deny this is tantamount to insisting past interceptions are not important to look at because, being in the past, they have no bearing on likely future events. Meanwhile we all know that's absurd. 

Since Fitz has been a starter in this league (2010), he's thrown more TD's than picks every season, and for his career, has thrown 154 TD's to 116 picks.  Unless you want to argue that Fitz has a magic ability to make defensive backs drop his picks, the "past" suggests he's more than a decent QB.  Yes, we get it, he takes risks and turns the ball over.  He also has the ability to make up for it by throwing a pretty solid number of TD passes. 

You have a one-sided view of this argument.  You fail to acknowledge anything positive he brings to the table.  You call him a "backup", even though he hasn't been a backup in this league since 2007.

Considering how terrible our history has been at the QB position, employing actual backups like Sanchez and Geno and pretending they're starters, a little bit of objectivity would be nice to see.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Since Fitz has been a starter in this league (2010), he's thrown more TD's than picks every season.  Unless you want to argue that Fitz has a magic ability to make defensive backs drop his picks, the "past" suggests he's more than a decent QB.  Yes, we get it, he takes risks and turns the ball over.  He also has the ability to make up for it by throwing a pretty solid number of TD passes. 

You have a one-sided view of this argument.  You fail to acknowledge anything positive he brings to the table.

No. I think he's fine to have on the roster. I don't think he's fine to mortgage the 2017 season to make the 2016 season hopefully less bad. We're not winning with or without him.

I have acknowledged his positive points plenty of times. I can't help it if you ignore them. It's more that, since people love to cite his stats, it's relevant to put those stats into perspective instead of mistakenly assuming all - or most, or even a handful of - other QBs had his advantages.

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Just stating Geno "sucks" is not an argument. 

Figures a Smith Fan like you would not understand the argument.

The point is that Fitzpatrick does not have to be Tom Brady to be much better than the alternative of starting a qb like Smith.  Who sucks.

What part of that do you not get? 

(that is a rhetorical question)

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

No. I think he's fine to have on the roster. I don't think he's fine to mortgage the 2017 season to make the 2016 season hopefully less bad. We're not winning with or without him.

I have acknowledged his positive points plenty of times. I can't help it if you ignore them. 

We don't disagree on this.  I want him starting one more season and hopefully having one of the young guys take over in 2017.  So what, exactly, is the point of continuing to argue that Fitz sucks?

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We don't disagree on this.  I want him starting one more season and hopefully having one of the young guys take over in 2017.  So what, exactly, is the point of continuing to argue that Fitz sucks?

I augmented my post. 

Basically, because I think he's a waste. What's the "point" of continuing to say any number of other players/coaches suck, as you've done plenty yourself? What's the "point" of typing "Geno lover" at anyone who dares to think Fitz isn't a worthwhile starter, but would be a great insurance policy (i.e. backup) behind a real starter on a real contender. 

[Villain The Foe]

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I augmented my post. 

Basically, because I think he's a waste. What's the "point" of continuing to say any number of other players/coaches suck, as you've done plenty yourself? 

Those players/coaches never had a thread that lasted 217 pages.  I don't think the "Sanchez sucks" thread even made it that far.  Just seems like a fairly worthless topic.  He is what he is, and the offer the Jets have on the table reflect that.  They only want him starting 1 more season as well, as a bridge to one of the young guys and so that we don't have to waste a season with Geno under center.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Since Fitz has been a starter in this league (2010), he's thrown more TD's than picks every season, and for his career, has thrown 154 TD's to 116 picks.  Unless you want to argue that Fitz has a magic ability to make defensive backs drop his picks, the "past" suggests he's more than a decent QB.  Yes, we get it, he takes risks and turns the ball over.  He also has the ability to make up for it by throwing a pretty solid number of TD passes. 

You have a one-sided view of this argument.  You fail to acknowledge anything positive he brings to the table.

LOL.  Nice cherry pick.  He started games before 2010 and did not throw more TD's than picks.  You're a trip.

He was also a 6 year veteran in 2010.

 

[JustInFudge]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those players/coaches never had a thread that lasted 217 pages.  I don't think the "Sanchez sucks" thread even made it that far.  Just seems like a fairly worthless topic.  He is what he is, and the offer the Jets have on the table reflect that.  They only want him starting 1 more season as well, as a bridge to one of the young guys and so that we don't have to waste a season with Geno under center.

Waste a season with Fitz or waste a season with Geno.  There is no difference.  Its just like last year all over again.  You dont know what you have in Geno, you know what you have in Fitz.  Both options stink to high hell...just one gives hope while the other provides none.  That's all its about and here we are, just like I predicted we'd be when you were shoving conquering hero down our throat all offseason last year.

This is why we're the Jets and you're supporting it.

Ih8u

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Unless you want to argue that Fitz has a magic ability to make defensive backs drop his picks, the "past" suggests he's more than a decent QB. 

No that is a ridiculous conclusion nobody would reasonably draw. What it means is he got lucky, unless you care to show how every other starting QB makes an equal number (or percentage) of throws right at a defender's head, chest, or hands, which you're welcome to do.

The opposite argument, of our own drops (and we all hate every single one) is a further weak argument. As though our WR drops affected game outcomes more than that of our opponents. Surely our receivers dropped more passes than our opponents' receivers did, right? Except our opponents dropped 37 passes themselves (not even counting the Fitzpatrick passes they dropped -- hiyooooo). That's a 6.2% drop rate, which is worse than any single NFL team had. Our 2015 opponents were the equivalent of playing against the single most drop-prone team in the NFL, every week of the year, and then add in a few more drops on top of that. This should give some further perspective on how little our offense was comparatively asked to overcome.

The driving home point is if we weren't going to get to - never mind do serious damage in - the playoffs last year against such football god gifts people feel we never get, it's surely not happening this year. Therefore it's not worth handing him a starting job and spending $12M. I don't remotely think he is alone in the "not worth the money" category for this team. He's merely the most-discussed. It could be argued that the offer before him isn't that bad ($8M x 3 yrs) because a contender may want a backup QB just that good, and it's not that expensive while we don't have to shell out $20M/yr for an actual starter. But it's still high, and I certainly wouldn't go any higher.

[Sperm Edwards]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those players/coaches never had a thread that lasted 217 pages.  I don't think the "Sanchez sucks" thread even made it that far.  Just seems like a fairly worthless topic.  He is what he is, and the offer the Jets have on the table reflect that.  They only want him starting 1 more season as well, as a bridge to one of the young guys and so that we don't have to waste a season with Geno under center.

Well to be fair, many threads were merged into one. Also there was simply less dissent to the Sanchez sucks sentiment so such a thread would die down faster (particularly without @nyjunc's contribution, or it would have been 700 pages long, and still on page 1). How many Rex threads were in his final season? Far more than Fitzpatrick threads, despite there being a whole lot of other shortcomings on the Jets than merely his coaching. 

You're further creating a false premise, in suggesting it's 217 pages of people outlining his shortcomings. There's kinda more than 1 or 2 pages of posts taking the exact opposite view. It's 2 sides last-wording each other, and we all do it at times. 

Last, the thread is this long because there are 2 discussion topics with him: his performance, and his contract situation. So this thread is 2 for 1. 

[Villain The Foe]

Jets have no “drop-dead deadline” to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

• 6 Responses to “Jets have no “drop-dead deadline” to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick”
• “I don’t have a drop-dead deadline right now ,” Bowles said, via NJ.com. “
• On the same note, Fitzpatrick in no way shape or form is even worth the 12 mil for the first year the Jets have in the table.
• Jets coach Todd Bowles ladled some praise on Geno Smith Tuesday by saying that Smith is ” light years ahead ” of where he was last year, but Smith wasn’t the only quarterback that Bowles talked about during his press conference.
• The Jets need Sheldon Richardson more than Wilkerson.

 

 

Jets have no “drop-dead deadline” to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick

Posted by Josh Alper on June 14, 2016, 7:44 PM EDT

Getty Images

Jets coach Todd Bowles ladled some praise onGeno Smith Tuesday by saying that Smith is “light years ahead” of where he was last year, but Smith wasn’t the only quarterback that Bowles talked about during his press conference.

Smith is getting a chance to show how far he’s come because Ryan Fitzpatrick remains unsigned and, to little surprise, Fitzpatrick’s name also came up with reporters. Bowles said that there’s no date in mind that represents a point that the Jets would absolutely be moving on without Fitzpatrick.

“I don’t have a drop-dead deadline right now,” Bowles said, via NJ.com. “It doesn’t hinder our offensive planning at all; we’re going full-speed ahead, right now. If he got hurt, Geno would be the starter and have to play. He’s learning the system right now, he’s getting better at it. Whether it’s Fitz or whether it’s Geno, we’re doing the same things we need to do. But later, if [Fitzpatrick] comes in—if he comes in—the more he has to catch up.”

Bowles said his approach is to treat the situation like “business as usual,” something that would also fit with his responses to questions about franchise-tagged defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson’s absence from the team this offseason. Other players on the team have expressed more hope that the two players were with the team, but there’s no sign that any change in status is imminent on either front.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well to be fair, many threads were merged into one. Also there was simply less dissent to the Sanchez sucks sentiment so such a thread would die down faster (particularly without @nyjunc's contribution, or it would have been 700 pages long, and still on page 1). How many Rex threads were in his final season? Far more than Fitzpatrick threads, despite there being a whole lot of other shortcomings on the Jets than merely his coaching. 

You're further creating a false premise, in suggesting it's 217 pages of people outlining his shortcomings. There's kinda more than 1 or 2 pages of posts taking the exact opposite view. It's 2 sides last-wording each other, and we all do it at times. 

Last, the thread is this long because there are 2 discussion topics with him: his performance, and his contract situation. So this thread is 2 for 1. 

you need me?

[j4jets]

14 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well we've over this before. There are no job openings this off season for starting Qbs. They are all filled. If Tannehill or Andy Dalton was available they'd both have problems getting a starting job this year.  But that will change. And nobody is saying he should get average pay for a starting Qb which is 16. To me the 12 is fair but looks like he will have to take less money. 

The "average pay for a starting QB" is highly misleading since some of those pro bowl caliber, super bowl winning QBs make an insane amount to skew the average. The proper wording should be the "pay of an average QB" and Fitz isn't your average QB. And Dalton would be a better QB with his eyes closed compared to Fitz throwing from the Kings throne you put him on. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Waste a season with Fitz or waste a season with Geno.  There is no difference.  Its just like last year all over again.  You dont know what you have in Geno, you know what you have in Fitz.  Both options stink to high hell...just one gives hope while the other provides none.  That's all its about and here we are, just like I predicted we'd be when you were shoving conquering hero down our throat all offseason last year.

This is why we're the Jets and you're supporting it.

Ih8u

 

 

We know what we have in Geno.  And he's f*cking terrible.  Start him if you want to not watch the season and get a nice draft pick.  That's all you'll get.

[j4jets]

14 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Not to mention that stretch where Marshsll made bone-headed game altering mistakes a few weeks in a row. All on Fitz.

Like where he bailed out Fitz on that int he snatched back? Or the million TDs he caught in traffic on bad throws? Or maybe you were referring to him turning on the beast mode post injury n making it seem like Fitz was the one on fire? Cuz we all saw how good Fitz is when he's behind. 

[j4jets]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We know what we have in Geno.  And he's f*cking terrible.  Start him if you want to not watch the season and get a nice draft pick.  That's all you'll get.

Or start Fitz n watch us miss the playoffs again with the leagues easiest schedule. 

[Integrity28]

18 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Like where he bailed out Fitz on that int he snatched back? Or the million TDs he caught in traffic on bad throws? Or maybe you were referring to him turning on the beast mode post injury n making it seem like Fitz was the one on fire? Cuz we all saw how good Fitz is when he's behind. 

I think, maybe, you missed the point.

 

[j4jets]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

I think, maybe, you missed the point.

 

I think I did. Some posters make him ought to be Joe Montana so you never know if that's actually sarcasm. I think we were referring to the same plays anyways. 

[Integrity28]

Just now, j4jets said:

I think I did. Some posters make him ought to be Joe Montana so you never know if that's actually sarcasm. I think we were referring to the same plays anyways. 

I liked rooting for Fitz last year, but I know exactly what type of player he is. I'm not, and haven't seen anyone, compare him to Joe Montana. I have only seen detractors struggle to make arguments use exaggerations like this.

The overarching point was that in the pathetic quest to win interwebz arguments over Fitz, many have lost sight of the fact that our losses last year were not one one person. There were games that were hands-down lost by special teams (looks at Devin Smith). The biggest knock on Fitz, from my standpoint, is that he's not a superstar capable of offsetting events in games where Marshall, or Devin Smith, or specials, or Revis/Bowles coverage gameplan, or whatever puts us in a bad situation. But, if we're being honest, we already knew that about Fitz, which is why he was acquired with a 7th round draft pick.

Reality is, teams win, teams lose. Fitz helped us win more than we lost. If he's back this year, I hope he does again. The debate is stupid.

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, j4jets said:

The "average pay for a starting QB" is highly misleading since some of those pro bowl caliber, super bowl winning QBs make an insane amount to skew the average. The proper wording should be the "pay of an average QB" and Fitz isn't your average QB. And Dalton would be a better QB with his eyes closed compared to Fitz throwing from the Kings throne you put him on. 

For this offense and this year Fitz is better for the Jets than Dalton. You can ask his teammates but you know a lot more than they do. 

[Big Blocker]

17 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I liked rooting for Fitz last year, but I know exactly what type of player he is. I'm not, and haven't seen anyone, compare him to Joe Montana. I have only seen detractors struggle to make arguments use exaggerations like this.

The overarching point was that in the pathetic quest to win interwebz arguments over Fitz, many have lost sight of the fact that our losses last year were not one one person. There were games that were hands-down lost by special teams (looks at Devin Smith). The biggest knock on Fitz, from my standpoint, is that he's not a superstar capable of offsetting events in games where Marshall, or Devin Smith, or specials, or Revis/Bowles coverage gameplan, or whatever puts us in a bad situation. But, if we're being honest, we already knew that about Fitz, which is why he was acquired with a 7th round draft pick.

Reality is, teams win, teams lose. Fitz helped us win more than we lost. If he's back this year, I hope he does again. The debate is stupid.

It's not only the exaggerations that are troubling.  Add the reference to the schedule and that alone.

As everyone knew at one point but perhaps have chosen to forget, last season, the Jets had:

- a rookie HC who made some mistakes

- a new CS, including an OC who spent the two previous years on the couch

- no production from TE

- unsettled and mostly unproductive play at 3rd wideout (the most important bench position on O)

- an RB rotation that ran out of gas as the season drew to a close

- OL had issues; new LG, disappointing rotation at RG, Giacomini sucked, and Ferguson continued his decline

- NO help from the backup Qb

- Richardson on suspension for 4 games

- Cromartie hurt, gave up too many TD's, CS had little confidence in his backups, Revis hurt in the last game

- slow linebackers, Coples cut, D Davis disappointed

 - ST flat out sucked, one of the worst units in the league

Yeah sure some even many of those things, meaning things like them, are par for the course in football, but not all of them.  More to the point we have good reason to expect improvement in most of them, except of course backup Qb if htat is Smith and whether Richardson sits another suspension.

Like I said, everyone should remember all these points, so if some either forget or choose conveniently to forget, that undercuts the argument that the reason the Jets fell short was all on Fitzpatrick.

[j4jets]

18 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

For this offense and this year Fitz is better for the Jets than Dalton. You can ask his teammates but you know a lot more than they do. 

Ok, I think you've officially reached a new level and I commend you on your bravery. 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

I liked rooting for Fitz last year, but I know exactly what type of player he is. I'm not, and haven't seen anyone, compare him to Joe Montana. I have only seen detractors struggle to make arguments use exaggerations like this.

The overarching point was that in the pathetic quest to win interwebz arguments over Fitz, many have lost sight of the fact that our losses last year were not one one person. There were games that were hands-down lost by special teams (looks at Devin Smith). The biggest knock on Fitz, from my standpoint, is that he's not a superstar capable of offsetting events in games where Marshall, or Devin Smith, or specials, or Revis/Bowles coverage gameplan, or whatever puts us in a bad situation. But, if we're being honest, we already knew that about Fitz, which is why he was acquired with a 7th round draft pick.

Reality is, teams win, teams lose. Fitz helped us win more than we lost. If he's back this year, I hope he does again. The debate is stupid.

All true...  but IMO the rub is that FITZ wants to be paid for one good season. At $12 mil, he is WAY overpaid and yet that is his offer basically.

Well..Id  like him too  BUT he can go Fukk himself, he is delusional as to his worth.

 

 

[Rangers9]

44 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Ok, I think you've officially reached a new level and I commend you on your bravery. 

You weren't reading what I was saying because you only know black or white, good or bad nothing in between. Based on last year he's a great fit for this team and the offense. He can run it well and has a great relationship with the players and coaches. That's as important as pure talent. So for 2016 I'd love to see us try to follow up on what we did successfully last year. Most of it was positive. As for Dalton he's not an A list Qb. I only used his name earlier to make the point that if he was a FA this off season he would also have problems finding a starting job. Because the truth is there aren't any. And teams have committed themselves to guys usually on long term deals. They aren't going to cut somebody and lose a ton of money to sign someone else.

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Name them. Which dropped passes turned 3 or more sure wins into actual losses more than Fitzpatrick's own ineptness, in a way other QBs don't have to deal with and overcome.

The "blame everyone else" excuses for this glorified backup knows no bounds. Every drop was more than offset by acrobatic catches on shoulda-been incomplete passes. Hell, one of the actual picks was actually stolen back by Marshall 1 second later.

You'd think our awesome pair of WRs were a freaking liability to hear you recap the season. 

Basically, when they rescue Fitz, or are so wide open Brooks Bollinger would have little trouble completing the pass, credit goes to Fitzpatrick because stats and stuff against terrible and weakened teams. When they drop a pass, though, that absolves Fitz of all wrongdoing and sh*tty play, and were the true barriers to missing the playoffs. Lol.

not going to waste my time arguing with you Sperm

[Snell41]

Well we've over this before. There are no job openings this off season for starting Qbs. They are all filled. If Tannehill or Andy Dalton was available they'd both have problems getting a starting job this year.  But that will change. And nobody is saying he should get average pay for a starting Qb which is 16. To me the 12 is fair but looks like he will have to take less money. 

Ahahahaha!!! Dude, stop. Just stop.

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