ProFootballFocus slaughters Christian Hackenberg: rates him as UNDRAFTABLE

[Dcat]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

SPOILER ALERT: you can't fix accuracy, pocket presence, or lack of confidence.

LOL.  Tell me about Lynch's "pocket presence".  He has none whatsoever, at least not in a pro set, and Hack has had success in a pro set.  And more importantly, for all you claim that you "can't"  fix  mechanics or pocket presence,  you certainly can't fix lack of football smarts (which multiple scouts referred to about Lynch) and lack of intelligence (obviously Lynch is even dumber than Geno, with a wonderlich that is nearly brain-dead caliber).  That's a bigger spoiler by leaps and bounds than yours.  Hackenburg has shown better football smarts, more intelligence, more pro ready experience, as strong an arm,as has Lynch. Your assumptions about Lynch are unfounded and unsupported.  But keep shooting from the hip.  Eventually you'll get lucky and make sense.

[PatsFanTX]

Before reading any of this thread the initial thought that comes to mind is this; Could it be that perhaps the people who DO the job of scouting and assessing talent, brains, character, and growth potential might just know a few things about Christian Hackenberg that we don't?

  

Nah, just look at all the great info that is available from posters on the board.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  Tell me about Lynch's has no "pocket presence" whatsoever and at least Hack has had success in a pro set.  And more importantly, for all you claim that you "can't"  fix  mechanics or pocket presence,  you certainly can't fix lack of football smarts (which multiple scouts referred to about Lynch) and lack of intelligence (obviously Lynch is even dumber than Geno, with a wonderlich that is nearly brain-dead caliber).  That's a bigger spoiler by leaps and bounds than yours.  Hackenburg has shown better football smarts, more intelligence, more pro ready experience, as strong an arm as has Lynch. Your assumptions about Lynch are unfounded and unsupported.  But keep shooting from the hip.  Eventually you'll get lucky and make sense.

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  Tell me about Lynch's has no "pocket presence" whatsoever and at least Hack has had success in a pro set.  And more importantly, for all you claim that you "can't"  fix  mechanics or pocket presence,  you certainly can't fix lack of football smarts (which multiple scouts referred to about Lynch) and lack of intelligence (obviously Lynch is even dumber than Geno, with a wonderlich that is nearly brain-dead caliber).  That's a bigger spoiler by leaps and bounds than yours.  Hackenburg has shown better football smarts, more intelligence, more pro ready experience, as strong an arm as has Lynch. Your assumptions about Lynch are unfounded and unsupported.  But keep shooting from the hip.  Eventually you'll get lucky and make sense.

You make things up, then close your posts accusing people of being anti-scientific about the things you just made up.

[BowlesMovement]

22 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Before reading any of this thread the initial thought that comes to mind is this; Could it be that perhaps the people who DO the job of scouting and assessing talent, brains, character, and growth potential might just know a few things about Christian Hackenberg that we don't?

  

This!!! For better or worse, Mac is our GM. The guy brought in his own scouts, and is known for being a great scout and a football guy. It amazes me how people who probably don't have 1/1000 the amount of info on a player can make statements with such conviction. A tiny bit of self awareness and humility often goes a very long way.

[ChuckkieB]

21 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Before reading any of this thread the initial thought that comes to mind is this; Could it be that perhaps the people who DO the job of scouting and assessing talent, brains, character, and growth potential might just know a few things about Christian Hackenberg that we don't?

  

No. This is not possible. Everyone is here is an expert. The best of the best. Nothing gets by this group of educated an well informed gentlemen. If you read something here, rest assured that it is true. 

[BowlesMovement]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Batesman did not like Idzik at all.

Oh, did Stoic like Rex?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

20 minutes ago, Dcat said:

it's only a disaster if one buys in to the ridiculous "Lynch is a quality pick" stand you have been taking.  Never bought into that garbage from day 1.  Lynch, Cook, Hack each spent a day in Florham Park being interviewed, tested evaluated physically, mentally, attitudinally.

But how does he rate longitudinally? Epistemologically?

[Dcat]

10 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

The problem is his formative years might have already been torched if the Temple game I saw was any indication of what the last 2 years without Obrien where like at Penn.

LOL @ "formative years torched".  

where do people come up with this stuff?  very good!  Thanks for the funny. 

[Irish Jet]

14 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Tim Tebow made some nice throws, too, but it didn’t make him a starting NFL quarterback.

This is rather hilarious though. Considering "Monie" was drooling all over Tebow as a prospect on NFLUK.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, BowlesMovement said:

Oh, did Stoic like Rex?

Yes. But stoic is insane.

[UnitedWhofans]

The bottom line is, he did the research on Hackenberg, he probably talked to Bill O'Brien about it. And Mac thinks he is the guy. Did he reach? Yeah, but I honestly think Houston jumping up made him not take any chances

[BowlesMovement]

8 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

One job. He has one job. Meaningless nonsense like 'mechanics' might suffice in April but when it's time to throw the ball to the guy a socket wrench isn't gonna cure what ails Hackenberg unless you hit him over the head with it and send in the backup.

ok, thanks for your expert opinion

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

This is rather hilarious though. Considering "Monie" was drooling all over Tebow as a prospect on NFLUK.

Interesting considering Tebow won a playoff game

[BowlesMovement]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yes. But stoic is insane.

So what's Batemans excuse for Idzik?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, BowlesMovement said:

ok, thanks for your expert opinion

Pls to provide examples of guys who are bad at making the ball go where they want it to go becoming good at making the ball go where they want it to go kthx.

[Dcat]

29 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

One job. He has one job. Meaningless nonsense like 'mechanics' might suffice in April but when it's time to throw the ball to the guy a socket wrench isn't gonna cure what ails Hackenberg unless you hit him over the head with it and send in the backup.

And when it comes to Lynch, nothing else matters if you can never get past his inability to read a defense.  Sanchez never learned how to do it.  Geno never learned how to do it.  And, astonishingly, Lynch, as dumb as he is, might even be dumber than those two.  What good is Lynch if he will never be able to understand/function in an NFL scheme?  A distinct possibility.  

But the Lynchkins here simply ignore Lynch's inability to comprehend/read defenses, which with his level of lack of smarts, makes him a very risky pick because that can trump everything else as it did with Sanchez and Geno.

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

But how does he rate longitudinally? Epistemologically?

absolutely. You obviously weren't there.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

And when it comes to Lynch, nothing else matters if you can never get past his inability to read a defense.  Sanchez never learned how to do it.  Geno never learned how to do it.  And, astonishingly, Lynch, as dumb as he is, might even be dumber than those two.  What good is Lynch if he will never be able to understand/function in an NFL scheme?  A distinct possibility.  

Maybe they all just need some sweet skull and crossbones glasses.

[SoFlaJets]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Yes. But stoic is insane.

Hey TS, last year at this time both you and I had our hopes set on one potential future Jet and that guy's name was Connor Cook. I mean he looked like a sure thing, the real deal and I couldn't believe that he wasn't picked in the 1st round. All I know is this; I am wrong MOST of the time when it comes to rating college prospects-especially Quarterbacks. the reason being that I don't watch much college football at all, Except when it came to Cook it just so happened to be the case that I was playing at a bar that had a TV set right in front of me and I swear every week it seemed like Cook's MSU team was on the tube so I got to see a pretty lot of him. 

[dbatesman]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Batesman did not like Idzik at all.

Point of clarification: he was dead to me the second he passed on Bridgewater, but I did (and still do) think his plan was a good one, and he rid us of Rex, so I'll always have a little soft spot for him.

[Dcat]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Maybe they all just need some sweet skull and crossbones glasses.

point is that there are as many question marks/negatives about Lynch as there are about Hackenburg, yet this board thinks it knows more than Mac and amazingly, the Lynchkins ignore each and everyone of Lynch's risks which are as severe and likely as any for Hack.  

[Irish Jet]

35 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Before reading any of this thread the initial thought that comes to mind is this; Could it be that perhaps the people who DO the job of scouting and assessing talent, brains, character, and growth potential might just know a few things about Christian Hackenberg that we don't?

Good to see you being optimistic. 

Ultimately yes, although I doesn't disqualify us from having an opinion based on everything we've seen ourselves - The games they've seen Hackenberg play are the same ones we've seen and the actual performance of the player is a pretty big part of evaluation. This board would have blown up with ridicule had the Bills made this pick and you know it.

[Paradis]

it's only a disaster if one buys in to the ridiculous "Lynch is a quality pick" stand you have been taking.  Never bought into that garbage from day 1.  Lynch, Cook, Hack each spent a day in Florham Park being interviewed, tested evaluated physically, mentally, attitudinally.  Jets had all the time in the world to do the necessary due dilligence and decided that Lynch just wasn't worth the risk but Hackenburg is.  Yet we should trust the one and only  "Paradis" view, one with little established merit, IMO, when it comes to Lynch.  sigh.  Ok, sure. 

I wish you wouldn't try to marry the two topics. They're totally separate, honest. I genuinely hate the Hackenberg pick - nothing to do with Lynch.

There's NFL teams laughing at us right now. We just took on the biggest, most unlikely reclamation project in the draft.

Good luck with that, Macc.

[dbatesman]

I love that we're less than a day into Hackenberg's tenure and we're already balls-deep in the Sanchez arguments again.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Hey TS, last year at this time both you and I had our hopes set on one potential future Jet and that guy's name was Connor Cook. I mean he looked like a sure thing, the real deal and I couldn't believe that he wasn't picked in the 1st round. All I know is this; I am wrong MOST of the time when it comes to rating college prospects-especially Quarterbacks. the reason being that I don't watch much college football at all, Except when it came to Cook it just so happened to be the case that I was playing at a bar that had a TV set right in front of me and I swear every week it seemed like Cook's MSU team was on the tube so I got to see a pretty lot of him. 

We were really desperate a year ago, then Cook's backup came in and beat Ohio State and sorta confirmed much of what was troubling about Cook.

 

if people want to like Hackeberg because he's a Jet, they're going to have to do so in defiance of the statistics and every quantifiable analysis in existence on him. If the Bills picked him in the second, these same people would be laughing their asses off.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

I wish you wouldn't try to marry the two topics. They're totally separate, honest. I genuinely hate the Hackenberg pick - nothing to do with Lynch.

There's NFL teams laughing at us right now. We just took on the biggest, most unlikely reclamation project in the draft.

Good luck with that, Macc.

You state an opinion, not founded on a solid set of facts, and then preach it as though it is fact.  "Biggest" & "most unlikely" are your own opinion-based, unsupported claims that you present as if they were actual facts instread of your speculation.  .  Yeah, okay Paradis.   Can't take you seriously when you will run your agenda and exaggerate your own opinions to fool others into thinking you are presenting facts

[Dcat]

Just now, T0mShane said:

We were really desperate a year ago, then Cook's backup came in and beat Ohio State and sorta confirmed much of what was troubling about Cook.

 

if people want to like Hackeberg because he's a Jet, they're going to have to do so in defiance of the statistics and every quantifiable analysis in existence on him. If the Bills picked him in the second, these same people would be laughing their asses off.

Where you are dead wrong is in thinking that relying on the last 2 years of stats in the Penn State train wreck means much.  If your pinning your strained arguments on that, then just stop because your burying your own position by doing so. 

[SoFlaJets]

5 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Good to see you being optimistic. 

Ultimately yes, although I doesn't disqualify us from having an opinion based on everything we've seen ourselves - The games they've seen Hackenberg play are the same ones we've seen and the actual performance of the player is a pretty big part of evaluation. This board would have blown up with ridicule had the Bills made this pick and you know it.

This is not being optimistic IJ, this is called being humble and being a realist-I'm humble because I am not pretending to know anything about a guy who I never saw play even one game and the being a realist is because I'm sure I know a lot more about music that any of the guys working in Florham Park because that's my JOB. I am a musician not an NFL scout.-that's so funny, both you and Tom Shane said the same thing about had the Bills made the pick-I mean almost EXACTLY...hey has anyone ever SEEN Shane and Irish Jet in the same room together?

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

You state an opinion, not founded on a solid set of facts, and then preach it as though it is fact.  "Biggest" & "most unlikely" are your own opinion-based, unsupported claims that you present as if they were actual facts instread of your speculation.  .  Yeah, okay Paradis.   Can't take you seriously when you will run your agenda and exaggerate your own opinions to fool others into thinking you are presenting facts

Would you say Hackenberg has shown flashes of greatness?

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

We were really desperate a year ago, then Cook's backup came in and beat Ohio State and sorta confirmed much of what was troubling about Cook.

 

if people want to like Hackeberg because he's a Jet, they're going to have to do so in defiance of the statistics and every quantifiable analysis in existence on him. If the Bills picked him in the second, these same people would be laughing their asses off.

Not true at all, taking a big strong armed QB late in the 2nd is hardly something to laugh their ass off. Taking a punter is

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, BowlesMovement said:

Not true at all, taking a big strong armed QB late in the 2nd is hardly something to laugh their ass off. Taking a punter is

Or trading up to take a kicker

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Where you are dead wrong is in thinking that relying on the last 2 years of stats in the Penn State train wreck means much.  If your pinning your strained arguments on that, then just stop because your burying your own position by doing so. 

Again, your position is to ignore every statistic, every available metric, and every predictive analysis because you want to like Hackenberg. You're not making an argument here, you're stomping your feet and making entirely baseless claims about a player who's proven nothing.

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We were really desperate a year ago, then Cook's backup came in and beat Ohio State and sorta confirmed much of what was troubling about Cook.

 

if people want to like Hackeberg because he's a Jet, they're going to have to do so in defiance of the statistics and every quantifiable analysis in existence on him. If the Bills picked him in the second, these same people would be laughing their asses off.

I might not like his play but the mitigating circumstances surrounding him and Maccagnan to me has earned the benefit of the doubt to wait until we see how this pans out

[JetsFanatic]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Again, your position is to ignore every statistic, every available metric, and every predictive analysis because you want to like Hackenberg, you're not making an argument here, you're stomping your feet and making entirely baseless claims about a player who's proven nothing.

You loved this guy before the draft why all the whining now?