So far, I love this draft

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

I honestly don't think scouting is an exact enough science to have a pure BAP mentality. If one guy is an 89 and another is an 88, is there really any difference in the scouts view? I mean if the 88 is at a position of need, the 89 should be selected almost every time, as long as the position warrants the pick. 

Well that's the silliness that's been shoveled around here. Granted it's a 7th round pick, but do you really believe that at that pick a punter was their highest rated prospect in all of college football? I don't. Also I don't know how many - if any - of our picks were that close.

I don't think Hackenberg was viewed as the BAP regardless of position (or only marginally the 2nd-best player available where need trumped an insignificant difference). More than anything else it looks like this: they wanted a QB, they viewed him as the 3rd-best QB in the draft, and they didn't want to risk losing him between that pick and their next pick. I do not believe they felt he was the best college prospect on their board. He filled an extreme need. Simple as that. Had they taken him a round (or two) later, then you'd see a lot less criticism. I think few (if any) had Hackenberg as one of the 50 (ok, 51) college football prospects regardless of position. And that fixation on him is why they didn't even want to listen to any offers to move down slightly. It's a red flag. Hopefully it becomes a meaningless one and one that I'll forget because Hackenberg is throwing touchdowns all over the place someday.

[thebuzzardman]

2 hours ago, The Troll said:

Meth?

I dunno. Crack is pretty bad.

You're not sure it's Meth? You must be on Bath Salts.

 

Ha! Just trying to keep the fun rolling.

[LIJetsFan]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well that's the silliness that's been shoveled around here. Granted it's a 7th round pick, but do you really believe that at that pick a punter was their highest rated prospect in all of college football? I don't. Also I don't know how many - if any - of our picks were that close.

I don't think Hackenberg was viewed as the BAP regardless of position (or only marginally the 2nd-best player available where need trumped an insignificant difference). More than anything else it looks like this: they wanted a QB, they viewed him as the 3rd-best QB in the draft, and they didn't want to risk losing him between that pick and their next pick. I do not believe they felt he was the best college prospect on their board. He filled an extreme need. Simple as that. Had they taken him a round (or two) later, then you'd see a lot less criticism. I think few (if any) had Hackenberg as one of the 50 (ok, 51) college football prospects regardless of position. And that fixation on him is why they didn't even want to listen to any offers to move down slightly. It's a red flag. Hopefully it becomes a meaningless one and one that I'll forget because Hackenberg is throwing touchdowns all over the place someday.

I think like 99% of us here subscribe to the take a QB every year till you find one theory.  So QB under these circumstances is not pure BPA but probably something more like BPA QB with the highest floor/ceiling or the like.  Anyway, kindly back down of your high horse and enjoy the rest of the ride

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I think like 99% of us here subscribe to the take a QB every year till you find one theory.  So QB under these circumstances is not pure BPA but probably something more like BPA QB with the highest floor/ceiling or the like.  Anyway, kindly back down of your high horse and enjoy the rest of the ride

99% of us here weren't doing the drafting nor claiming they were drafting purely BAP.

And I like my high horse. 

[LIJetsFan]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

99% of us here weren't doing the drafting nor claiming they were drafting purely BAP.

And I like my high horse. 

I think you're misstating Mac's philosophy on the draft.  "You try to take BPA for the most part"    See approx 49 sec on the is tape:  

 https://www.sny.tv/jets/news/geico-sportsnite-jets-balance-draft-strategy-to-upgrade-both-sides-of-ball/175572164

[The Troll]

You're not sure it's Meth? You must be on Bath Salts.

 

Ha! Just trying to keep the fun rolling.

Ah, bath salts - all the fun of PCP, but available at your local Kroger!

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well that's the silliness that's been shoveled around here. Granted it's a 7th round pick, but do you really believe that at that pick a punter was their highest rated prospect in all of college football? I don't. Also I don't know how many - if any - of our picks were that close.

I don't think Hackenberg was viewed as the BAP regardless of position (or only marginally the 2nd-best player available where need trumped an insignificant difference). More than anything else it looks like this: they wanted a QB, they viewed him as the 3rd-best QB in the draft, and they didn't want to risk losing him between that pick and their next pick. I do not believe they felt he was the best college prospect on their board. He filled an extreme need. Simple as that. Had they taken him a round (or two) later, then you'd see a lot less criticism. I think few (if any) had Hackenberg as one of the 50 (ok, 51) college football prospects regardless of position. And that fixation on him is why they didn't even want to listen to any offers to move down slightly. It's a red flag. Hopefully it becomes a meaningless one and one that I'll forget because Hackenberg is throwing touchdowns all over the place someday.

I have no idea how their board was arranged, and I agree that the BAP is a bunch of nonsense.  I have no idea where they ranked Hackenberg, for all we know thy may have had him higher than 50. As for where they took him, and waiting, I think that is a really crappy GM who doesn't trust their ability enough to take somewhere they have them ranked despite what Mel Kiper and Todd McShat say about them. Ultimately, he will get judged on this pick based on what he pans out to be.

 

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I thought Maccagnan didn't draft for need. That he was Mr. BAP. I've been reading this for over a year now. Try to find a pick that wasn't drafted purely for need. Hell, we even drafted a freaking punter. 

Nothing wrong with assigning need to picks, as pure BAP is mindless stupidity. But I am through listening to this nonsense idea of, "Ooh he's a scout by trade so he just drafts the best player he can get regardless of position," that keeps getting shoveled around.

You don't draft by need, especially in the first round.  Exhibit "A" is Leonard Williams last year.  However, when need and high draft grade meet, it's the best of both worlds. 

[Tinstar]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I thought Maccagnan didn't draft for need. That he was Mr. BAP. I've been reading this for over a year now. Try to find a pick that wasn't drafted purely for need. Hell, we even drafted a freaking punter. 

Nothing wrong with assigning need to picks, as pure BAP is mindless stupidity. But I am through listening to this nonsense idea of, "Ooh he's a scout by trade so he just drafts the best player he can get regardless of position," that keeps getting shoveled around.

Then allow me to explain. He meant BPA according to him, not you or anyone else's evaluation . Just about every Jet fan had an evaluation of these prospects, and every last one of them was different .  You don't like the picks, that's your prerogative, but come game day, I expect jet fans to cheer for the team .

It's what a fan does.

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, Tinstar said:

Then allow me to explain. He meant BPA according to him, not you or anyone else's evaluation . Just about every Jet fan had an evaluation of these prospects, and every last one of them was different .  You don't like the picks, that's your prerogative, but come game day, I expect jet fans to cheer for the team .

It's what a fan does.

Not a lot of jets fans... They are more interested in being right on the interweb than their team doing well. Street Cred!! FTW!

[j4jets]

44 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You don't draft by need, especially in the first round.  Exhibit "A" is Leonard Williams last year.  However, when need and high draft grade meet, it's the best of both worlds. 

True, but this draft was cooked with an extra topping of need. 

[JetsFanatic]

4 minutes ago, j4jets said:

True, but this draft was cooked with an extra topping of need. 

You are correct.  The "Best Available Player" concept is only in the early rounds, as the draft progresses need becomes the overriding factor unless there is somebody that is just head & shoulders above the rest of the board.

[j4jets]

14 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You are correct.  The "Best Available Player" concept is only in the early rounds, as the draft progresses need becomes the overriding factor unless there is somebody that is just head & shoulders above the rest of the board.

Our entire draft was based off of need. Entire draft. As time continues to pass, I'm getting more n more comfortable with the draft but I don't sense the BPA aspect in this draft. 

[Matt39]

Can anyone actually explain how the Jets basically haven't gone offense in round 1 since Santana Moss?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

You don't draft by need, especially in the first round.  Exhibit "A" is Leonard Williams last year.  However, when need and high draft grade meet, it's the best of both worlds. 

Leonard was a semi-need. He was dumping Mo, or so he thought, within a year. He really thought someone would give up a #1 or more.

[Tinstar]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Can anyone actually explain how the Jets basically haven't gone offense in round 1 since Santana Moss?

No, I can see a scenario where the Jets could have picked offensive players instead of Milliner and Pryor .

 

On a side note, I absolutely love this draft . Maybe all these players will bust, but the Jets chose football players with every single pick instead of athletes who play football . The only pick that worries me is Lee, and only because I see a specialist and it will be up to the schemes to get the most out of him. He's a 3 down player, but a chess piece.  Does Bowles know how to play chess is the question ?

[JetsFanatic]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Leonard was a semi-need. He was dumping Mo, or so he thought, within a year. He really thought someone would give up a #1 or more.

On a side note, I'm glad Mo is still a Jet, I wish they would come to some kind of a long term agreement to ease our cap situation this year.

[SayNoToDMC]

2 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I think you're misstating Mac's philosophy on the draft.  "You try to take BPA for the most part"    See approx 49 sec on the is tape:  

 https://www.sny.tv/jets/news/geico-sportsnite-jets-balance-draft-strategy-to-upgrade-both-sides-of-ball/175572164

Wouldn't the key word there be try? Like you'd like to not suck at QB for 40+ years and take the best guy, but you have, so you didnt.

[Butterfield]

I too am very happy with the draft, and I am usually a second guesser.  I also think they did draft BPA, just because they were at positions of need, doesnt mean that the player wasnt also bpa.  

[JetsFanatic]

19 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Our entire draft was based off of need. Entire draft. As time continues to pass, I'm getting more n more comfortable with the draft but I don't sense the BPA aspect in this draft. 

Every player this year did address a need, it would be great if they all work out!

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

On a side note, I'm glad Mo is still a Jet, I wish they would come to some kind of a long term agreement to ease our cap situation this year.

Totally understandable. But it's no secret he's been trying to move Mo for 2 off seasons now.

[joewilly12]

My only complaint is why waste a draft pick on a Punter......

Jacksonville and Dallas had great drafts in my opinion. 

[LIJetsFan]

25 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Wouldn't the key word there be try? Like you'd like to not suck at QB for 40+ years and take the best guy, but you have, so you didnt.

Sorry but I don't get your point.  Why exactly are you bringing the last 40 years into a discussions of our current GM's tendencies?  Just pissing and moaning?

[slats]

16 hours ago, LunAticcalm said:

Stopped reading after this line, I mean at least your honest but I bet you would have said the same thing after idziks drafts and then try to deny it after the fact.  

You cant just blindly love a draft because you trust the gm, unless that gm has helped win you a Super Bowl and even then it's ok to be skeptical when a 4th round pick like suckenberg is taken in the 2nd round......

we as fans have a right to question our gm because they aren't infallible by any means and it doesn't take a professional to point that out.

After more than a decade of accountants running the football operations, it's pretty easy to be excited about an actual scout in that role. I'm trusting him, too, until he gives me reason to feel otherwise. 

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Totally understandable. But it's no secret he's been trying to move Mo for 2 off seasons now.

It's like trying to get rid of Grey hairs.... after a certain point you realize it's innevitable and just roll with it and work with it.

Same as keeping that GUT in check.... at a certain point you just say "ah, what the heck, I'll just name it"!

[slats]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well that's the silliness that's been shoveled around here. Granted it's a 7th round pick, but do you really believe that at that pick a punter was their highest rated prospect in all of college football? I don't. Also I don't know how many - if any - of our picks were that close.

I don't think Hackenberg was viewed as the BAP regardless of position (or only marginally the 2nd-best player available where need trumped an insignificant difference). More than anything else it looks like this: they wanted a QB, they viewed him as the 3rd-best QB in the draft, and they didn't want to risk losing him between that pick and their next pick. I do not believe they felt he was the best college prospect on their board. He filled an extreme need. Simple as that. Had they taken him a round (or two) later, then you'd see a lot less criticism. I think few (if any) had Hackenberg as one of the 50 (ok, 51) college football prospects regardless of position. And that fixation on him is why they didn't even want to listen to any offers to move down slightly. It's a red flag. Hopefully it becomes a meaningless one and one that I'll forget because Hackenberg is throwing touchdowns all over the place someday.

Lee could've easily been a BAP pick, as a lot of so-called experts had him going before the Jets pick. QBs always getting graded on a curve, and go higher than their grades would suggest. Taking a second LB in the third round suggests BAP type thinking, too. The general idea behind the philosophy is to go BAP early, when there's more separation between prospects, then gravitate more towards need with the later, somewhat flawed prospects. The Jets could've drafted OL, CB, WR, RB, etc., and they all could've looked like "need" picks. Jets came into the draft with a lot of needs. 

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Totally understandable. But it's no secret he's been trying to move Mo for 2 off seasons now.

looking to move him for the right deal is probably more like it. at least he's not an idiot and just moving him for a 3rd round pick

[BowlesMovement]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

My only complaint is why waste a draft pick on a Punter......

Jacksonville and Dallas had great drafts in my opinion. 

Wow, when the only complaint from JoeWilly12 the great is a 7th round draft pick, you are doing OK. Now I am starting to question Mac, damn you JoeWilly12!

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Wow, when the only complaint from JoeWilly12 the great is a 7th round draft pick, you are doing OK. Now I am starting to question Mac, damn you JoeWilly12!

Did they draft all the big names,NO did they draft in everyones favor NO, we are message board gurus not NFL experts like Macc,Bowles and others. 

Lets not be judgmental until we see how many draft picks actually make the team and help this team. 

[SayNoToDMC]

2 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Sorry but I don't get your point.  Why exactly are you bringing the last 40 years into a discussions of our current GM's tendencies?  Just pissing and moaning?

Not sure what I'm bitching about, homie. All I'm saying is BPA available is for silly bitches that like 8-8 until you get the best QB available.

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Did they draft all the big names,NO did they draft in everyones favor NO, we are message board gurus not NFL experts like Macc,Bowles and others. 

Lets not be judgmental until we see how draft picks actually make the team and help this team. 

Word Fn Up!

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Every player this year did address a need, it would be great if they all work out!

I'm not questioning the picks at all. Obviously I want all of those to work out. I just don't want to hear we applied the BPA theory. That's all. As of today, we didn't pick the BPAs. Obviously, a BPA on draft day is rarely the BPA in the long in. 

[LunAticcalm]

1 hour ago, slats said:

After more than a decade of accountants running the football operations, it's pretty easy to be excited about an actual scout in that role. I'm trusting him, too, until he gives me reason to feel otherwise. 

I'll join the love fest after we win the Super Bowl, for now both the head coach and gm have something to prove to me.

[bostonmajet]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I thought Maccagnan didn't draft for need. That he was Mr. BAP. I've been reading this for over a year now. Try to find a pick that wasn't drafted purely for need. Hell, we even drafted a freaking punter. 

Nothing wrong with assigning need to picks, as pure BAP is mindless stupidity. But I am through listening to this nonsense idea of, "Ooh he's a scout by trade so he just drafts the best player he can get regardless of position," that keeps getting shoveled around.

The advantage to a team with a lot of holes (the only one really) is that you can draft BPA and still likely fill a need; last year, DL was def not need but def BPA and he pulled the trigger; just my opinion that the Lee pick was likely BPA on their board. First they tried to move all the way up to get a QB and then apparently up to get OT - yes areas of need, but also BPA at those spots

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Lee could've easily been a BAP pick, as a lot of so-called experts had him going before the Jets pick. QBs always getting graded on a curve, and go higher than their grades would suggest. Taking a second LB in the third round suggests BAP type thinking, too. The general idea behind the philosophy is to go BAP early, when there's more separation between prospects, then gravitate more towards need with the later, somewhat flawed prospects. The Jets could've drafted OL, CB, WR, RB, etc., and they all could've looked like "need" picks. Jets came into the draft with a lot of needs. 

I see need, need, need. "Need" to get faster on defense and the only place there's room for that is in the LB corps. Then "need" for a franchise QB prospect taken early, since another 4th rounder wouldn't go over so well. After that, back to "need" at LB to take Pace's place. Then another "need" because he doesn't think much of Milliner (probably not much of McDougle, and didn't think enough of Williams to push him ahead of Cromartie no matter how much he struggled). Technically there is an opening at Cromartie's CB starting spot right now.

I think there's a good chance they wanted Lawson and were trying to trade up. When they got "their guy" with Hackenberg they didn't waste any time making the pick. With Lee, they waited to see if a better offer came around. 

Disagree on drafting WR or RB being looked upon as a need. They have 2 veteran RBs signed for 2 years (and just signed them). Ditto WR. If they'd taken either of those positions I'd agree he's going straight BAP because we don't need a starter at either of those positions until 2018. 

I'm not finding fault with him for prioritizing need. I'm merely finding humor in those talking about his going straight BAP like they're his spokespeople preaching his religion. Then we see a draft where there wasn't a pick made that doesn't look like a "need" pick.