Poll: Fitz vs Geno

[Sperm Edwards]

@BowlesMovement you see what you've gone and done? Rangers9 now thinks Fitzpatrick = Rodgers. I hope you're proud of yourself. 

[Rangers9]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick = Aaron Rodgers

 

I didn't say that Sperm. I said on last year's team I thought that Ryan was a good fit and got the best out of that team. Rodgers is one of the best Qbs in the NFL but last year Fitz was pretty damn good too, but not on Rodgers level. There are no franchise Qbs available. Fitz is the best guy available not a rookie or Geno. When you opt for them you aren't even trying to win this year. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

I didn't say that Sperm. I said on last year's team I thought that Ryan was a good fit and got the best out of that team. Rodgers is one of the best Qbs in the NFL but last year Fitz was pretty damn good too, but not on Rodgers level. There are no franchise Qbs available. Fitz is the best guy available not a rookie or Geno. When you opt for them you aren't even trying to win this year. 

Like there is a team in existence that is suitable for Ryan Fitzpatrick, but for whom Aaron Rodgers would be any type of ill fit. 

Tell me which of the losses would have been too much for Aaron Rodgers to handle.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, cant wait said:

I guess you missed the whole "conquering hero" meme

Guess so.

I like to hope we all want the same thing, but there are days I don't think we do.

I want to compete, every single year, while building a roster worthy of a Super Bowl run.

IMO too many here want to suck (or accept sucking) for 4-5 years, in the mindset that that's how a Champion is Built, by sucking and losing and wasting good players years till we "find" that magic, one-on-a-generation Franchise QB.

The one we're still looking for 40+ years later.

I simply reject that idea, Geno is no answer, short term or long.  Fitz, for all his many flaws, makes us competitive in 2016.  Geno doesn't, and I can't believe otherwise till he SHOWS us otherwise.  I am not moved by the the same old folks use of the same old "fair chance/talent around him" meme to excuse his consistently horrid play.

Play to win, now and for the future.  Don't sacrifice 2016, because doing so won't help us in 2017.  Or 2018. It'll just waste 2016.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Look you're assuming what this guy wants or feels is fair in terms of salary. You and others are basically telling him what he should do. And saying he's ungrateful for not accepting the Jets offer (which you really don't know anything about). But the figures some of you guys are tossing out and saying he should sign for are unrealistic. No starting NFL Qb makes that little unless on a rookie contract.  

Bull shlt.  It's Fitz fans trying to convince us that if we don't up the offer whittle baby Fitzy is going to take his ball and go home.  You Fitz fanboys just don't quite get how these negotiations go.  When you're offered double what you made the previous year and no one else is offering a single cent, you take it.  You don't cry it's unfair or an insult.  Because truthfully, the Jets could have and should have offered a minute increase. 

Anyone can quit, if he wanted to quit he should have quit months ago do his team could make plans.  He sucks

[Rangers9]

Look I'm assuming the Jets are only offering Fitz at most a two year deal. We know he isn't the long term future but neither are other over 30's currently on the roster like David Harris who are essential to our team winning in 2016. And we right now have 2 developing Qbs on our roster who could be the future. Or they could end up either mediocre or average NFL players. Odds are that's going to happen but you never know. But like Warfish basically said 2016 is not a throw away year. I'm buying tickets and watching all of the games and sweating bullets every week. And talking to you guys and gals in between. I want our team to put on the field their best available players and try to go as far as possible. Experimenting with unproven Qbs is not the answer. 

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You don't cry it's unfair or an insult.

Please provide a link to the Fitz quote calling an actual Jets offer "unfair" or "an insult".  Thanks.

 

[Rangers9]

dup

[Rangers9]

21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Bull shlt.  It's Fitz fans trying to convince us that if we don't up the offer whittle baby Fitzy is going to take his ball and go home.  You Fitz fanboys just don't quite get how these negotiations go.  When you're offered double what you made the previous year and no one else is offering a single cent, you take it.  You don't cry it's unfair or an insult.  Because truthfully, the Jets could have and should have offered a minute increase. 

Anyone can quit, if he wanted to quit he should have quit months ago do his team could make plans.  He sucks

He was making backup money. And he started. Double that is below market. Let him quit or sign with another team if that's the way it goes. But don't tell the guy what he should do or what he should sign for. It's his business and he's negotiating a salary. Does he tell you what salary you should be making?

[Mike135]

1. Fitz:  36
2. Geno:  38
3. Geno unless Fitz accepts 7mil:  37

Geno kickin' @ss!

 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You are avoiding a simple question. What teams did we lose to that would have required Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady to secure victories?

I count 4 very winnable games. 

Guess how many teams in the NFL scored at least 17 points in every game last year thus giving their team a shot at winning every game?

[cant wait]

51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Guess so.

I like to hope we all want the same thing, but there are days I don't think we do.

I want to compete, every single year, while building a roster worthy of a Super Bowl run.

IMO too many here want to suck (or accept sucking) for 4-5 years, in the mindset that that's how a Champion is Built, by sucking and losing and wasting good players years till we "find" that magic, one-on-a-generation Franchise QB.

The one we're still looking for 40+ years later.

I simply reject that idea, Geno is no answer, short term or long.  Fitz, for all his many flaws, makes us competitive in 2016.  Geno doesn't, and I can't believe otherwise till he SHOWS us otherwise.  I am not moved by the the same old folks use of the same old "fair chance/talent around him" meme to excuse his consistently horrid play.

Play to win, now and for the future.  Don't sacrifice 2016, because doing so won't help us in 2017.  Or 2018. It'll just waste 2016.

I don't think the plan is tanking, the jets are trying to build a solid balanced roster so when they find a young QB that's worth keeping around the team can develop a consistently winning program and we're not just a team like Indy that gets lucky with finding top QB's to carry their franchise

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

1. Fitz:  36
2. Geno:  38
3. Geno unless Fitz accepts 7mil:  37

Geno kickin' @ss!

 

Look Mike it's a good poll. But you're being disingenuous on part 3 making it sound like fans voted for Geno when it was a Fitz category. I mean the way you worded it highlighted Fitz as starter and only at the end said that Geno was the fallback if over 7 mil. I know it's your poll but Geno isn't winning it!?

[Mike135]

10 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look Mike it's a good poll. But you're being disingenuous on part 3 making it sound like fans voted for Geno when it was a Fitz category. I mean the way you worded it highlighted Fitz as starter and only at the end said that Geno was the fallback if over 7 mil. I know it's your poll but Geno isn't winning it!?

I respectfully disagree.  And the guy ( @LIJetsFan ) who suggested the third option even said it basically means 99% for Geno since Fitz won't sign for 7mil.

The Geno only option has the most votes and I'm not sure what's confusing about "Fitz @7mil and not a penny more! Otherwise Geno."  Which has the second most votes.

Either Geno accepts 7mil which most likely isn't happening or Geno starts.

Anyway ya look at it, it's good (better than I expected) for Geno and our cap situation.  However not so great for Fitz.

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Guess how many teams in the NFL scored at least 17 points in every game last year thus giving their team a shot at winning every game?

Seriously gonna go there Beerfish? The Jets schedule was the 31st easiest. The team that had the 32nd easiest (Panthers) led the league in scoring I believe & was in the Super Bowl. The NY Giants had the 32nd ranked defense, were horrible in the sack dept. & Fitz was STONEWALLED  for almost 4 quarters. It's like people don't remember the 1st 3 quarters of football. Our defense was incredible that day, (the Giants do have some weapons). Sure, we won in an incredibly exciting fashion but if the Giants kicker doesn't miss that FG, this would have been another game that Fitz would have been killed over. 

Like I posted previously, Drew Brees went 36-50 for 505 yards & 7 TDs against that same Giants defense.

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@BowlesMovement you see what you've gone and done? Rangers9 now thinks Fitzpatrick = Rodgers. I hope you're proud of yourself. 

Are you saying he is not??

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Way to twist my words again. My criticism of Fitzpatrick is that when he's the QB it's been an automatic loss if the defense surrenders >20 points (not counting a meaningless garbage time score, like Jacksonville; I mean the other team scores >20 points where Fitzpatrick is then still being asked to pass the football).

I already absolved the offense - with or without Fitzpatrick - for 2 games because the defense let up 30 points. When a QB is put into position to win and he repeatedly throws the ball way off target (or picked off outright) then, yes, he gets at least as much blame as the credit he receives when they win.

Im not twisting your words around at all, I am taking what you said. 

I just think expecting even a SB caliber team to win 14 games is expecting a lot, and I don't think this team was a SB caliber team short of an elite QB. I don't think an Eli Manning makes that team last year 14-2 by any stretch, or even a Rivers. Aaron Rodgers maybe, but short of that, I just don't see it. I think a lot of Jets fans overrate the team last year, it was a decent team, it was not a great team irrespective of who the QB was.

[Rangers9]

27 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I respectfully disagree.  And the guy ( @LIJetsFan ) who suggested the third option even said it basically means 99% for Geno since Fitz won't sign for 7mil.

The Geno only option has the most votes and I'm not sure what's confusing about "Fitz @7mil and not a penny more! Otherwise Geno."  Which has the second most votes.

Either Geno accepts 7mil which most likely isn't happening or Geno starts.

Anyway ya look at it, it's good (better than I expected) for Geno and our cap situation.  However not so great for Fitz.

You sound like a politician. Either side of the aisle. Interpreting the results to conform with your pov. Look if Geno wins this or any poll it just confirms what I already know about this board. If it's Jets Nation it's crazy!?. But it's a nice group of people and we don't kill each other even when we disagree which is forever. 

[Mike135]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You sound like a politician. Either side of the aisle. Interpreting the results to conform with your pov. Look if Geno wins this or any poll it just confirms what I already know about this board. If it's Jets Nation it's crazy!?. But it's a nice group of people and we don't kill each other even when we disagree which is forever. 

Aw c'mon, other than Trump, what politician would discuss wackin'-off to LFL players?

There'll always be debate and disagreements.  We all agree on the most important things, e.g. being Jets fans, the Pats suck/cheat, Brady is most definitely bi or gay (though there's nothing wrong with that)...

Could create individual forums just for Geno or Fitz fans and there'd still be big disagreements in those subsets.  It's just human nature.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Seriously gonna go there Beerfish? The Jets schedule was the 31st easiest. The team that had the 32nd easiest (Panthers) led the league in scoring I believe & was in the Super Bowl. The NY Giants had the 32nd ranked defense, were horrible in the sack dept. & Fitz was STONEWALLED  for almost 4 quarters. It's like people don't remember the 1st 3 quarters of football. Our defense was incredible that day, (the Giants do have some weapons). Sure, we won in an incredibly exciting fashion but if the Giants kicker doesn't miss that FG, this would have been another game that Fitz would have been killed over. 

Like I posted previously, Drew Brees went 36-50 for 505 yards & 7 TDs against that same Giants defense.

No other team in the leauge scored 17 points per game, that is a pretty fair metric of being in very game.  As well as having the #3 in the league red zone offense.  Anyone that totally dismisses those stats simply has no clue about the game because the best way to sabotage those key stats is to take sacks at bad times and cough up the ball, something the Jets did not do very often last year (other than the fateful last game.)

 

So yeah, I am going there. 

 

I have to put the comment back on you, are you really going there saying that 100% of an offense and teams success is due to strength of schedule disregarding every other tangible metric?  Because seems to be what you and a number of others keep bringing up.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No other team in the leauge scored 17 points per game, that is a pretty fair metric of being in very game.  As well as having the #3 in the league red zone offense.  Anyone that totally dismisses those stats simply has no clue about the game because the best way to sabotage those key stats is to take sacks at bad times and cough up the ball, something the Jets did not do very often last year (other than the fateful last game.)

 

So yeah, I am going there. 

 

I have to put the comment back on you, are you really going there saying that 100% of an offense and teams success is due to strength of schedule disregarding every other tangible metric?  Because seems to be what you and a number of others keep bringing up.

why did we have such a good RZ offense? we scored 17 pts week 17, how did that turn out?

 

other than the most important game of the season?

[Villain The Foe]

 

[win4ever]

9 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You simply don't have a firm grasp on economics at all, so this conversation is going nowhere. You don't have to cut anyone to sign Wilk. I'm not sure what you're not understanding but the lack of the basics is hindering your argument, if you even have one. 

Hey you may be right. 

I think I, along with the other non economics majors here, would love it if you could explain in detail about how we will sign Wilkerson and Fitz without cutting anyone or strapping our cap in the future.  

Please enlighten me.  

[joewilly12]

6 hours ago, no psls said:

Fitz gives us the best chance to win THIS year . I don't care about 5 years down the road . I paid for tickets for THIS year  and I want to win THIS year . And ******* Woody can afford it !!!!!!!!!!!

Win what the Snoopy Bowl??  

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

Aw c'mon, other than Trump, what politician would discuss wackin'-off to LFL players?

There'll always be debate and disagreements.  We all agree on the most important things, e.g. being Jets fans, the Pats suck/cheat, Brady is most definitely bi or gay (though there's nothing wrong with that)...

Could create individual forums just for Geno or Fitz fans and there'd still be big disagreements in those subsets.  It's just human nature.

I think there's a better chance of me talking even one Fitz hater into not acting irrationally than there is of us winning the SB with Geno. In other words none. It's like talking to a wall?.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Guess how many teams in the NFL scored at least 17 points in every game last year thus giving their team a shot at winning every game?

Because we played creampuffs, and even the best team we played still surrendered 20 ppg. How many teams had a schedule that looked like our 2015 opponents? Teams Jets played in 2015, and ppg allowed:

1. Browns = 29 ppg

2. Colts = 25.5 ppg* (and were missing most of their starting secondary when we played, including Vernon Davis missing the entire 2nd half)

3. Eagles = 26.7 ppg

4. Dolphins 24.3 ppg

5. Redskins 23.7* ppg (in our matchup they were missing their top CB, their other starting CB was a game-time decision, and their top 2 receiving targets which kept putting our offense back on the field quickly via punts or picks within 1-2 possession series)

6. NE 19.7 ppg

7. Oak = 24.9 ppg (got knocked out of the game by his own stupidity)

8. Jaguars = 28 ppg

9. Bills = 22.4 ppg

10. Texans = 19.6 ppg

11. Dolphins = 24.3 ppg

12. Giants = 27.6 ppg

13. Titans = 26.4 ppg

14. Cowboys = 23.4 ppg

15. Pats = 19.7 ppg* (missing, among others, 2 pro bowl safeties; it was only a game because NE got spotted 7 points on Fitzpatrick’s fumble-6, and the win may not have happened if BB didn't defer the freaking football in OT, which was pretty awesome to have blow up in his face btw)

16. Bills = 22.4 ppg

 

2015 Defense rank of 2015 opponents:

29, 25, 28, 19, 17, 10, 22, 31, 15, 7, 17, 30, 27, 16, 10, 15 

(5/16 games vs top-15 defenses. 2015 Jets’ record vs those top-15 defenses = 1-4)

(# of top-3 defenses faced = 0)

 

2015 Defense rank of 2016 opponents:

2, 15, 3, 1, 11, 8, 24, 29, 17, 13, 10, 25*, 18, 17, 10, 15

(10/16 games vs top-15 defenses)

(3/16 games vs top-3 defenses)

 

Last year we didn't play one team that had (or were projected to have) a top-15 defense until week 6. This year we won't face a defense outside the top 15 until week 7. Given the team's record against better defenses, and teams that put points on the board on top of that, I see no credible evidence leading me to believe Fitzpatrick will lead this team to a winning record this year, let alone a repeat or improve upon the team’s 2015 10-win total. Paying him $10-16M/year for 2 years, which would only fit if we pushed that cost onto 2017, is wasted $$$.

He's simply not good enough, which is why nobody wants him except the Jets. And even the Jets, who know him as well or better than any other team, whose next man up is the opposite of a fan favorite in Geno Smith, paired with two young QBs who have never taken an NFL snap between them, still don't want Fitz badly enough to write him a check for more than half of baseline veteran starter money. Meanwhile I'll bet there were plenty - here and in the media - ready to pounce on the stupid SOJ for letting him slip away to the comparatively-smart Broncos, had it gone down that way.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I think there's a better chance of me talking even one Fitz hater into not acting irrationally than there is of us winning the SB with Geno. In other words none. It's like talking to a wall?.

we have the same chance to win the SB w/ geno as we do w/ Fitz- no chance.

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I think there's a better chance of me talking even one Fitz hater into not acting irrationally than there is of us winning the SB with Geno. In other words none. It's like talking to a wall?.

Well keep it up.  At least it's entertaining.  Gotta stick to your guns I suppose.  

But you have see the irony/humor in knocking Geno's odds at the playoffs/SB while you also support an 11 year vet who's never made the playoffs.

[Rangers9]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Like there is a team in existence that is suitable for Ryan Fitzpatrick, but for whom Aaron Rodgers would be any type of ill fit. 

Tell me which of the losses would have been too much for Aaron Rodgers to handle.

You can't do that because you don't know how he would have played. He might have won more games or maybe less. For the most part you're right but it's not iron clad. Rodgers is better than Fitz. I mean was Favre better than Chad. But who played better on his respective team in 2008. CP over BF. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Well keep it up.  At least it's entertaining.  Gotta stick to your guns I suppose.  

But you have see the irony/humor in knocking Geno's odds at the playoffs/SB while you also support an 11 year vet who's never made the playoffs.

He also supports the Rangers.........  

Geno leading the poll........SILENCE THE HATERS

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we have the same chance to win the SB w/ geno as we do w/ Fitz- no chance.

I don't think we'll win the SB with Fitz or anyone in 2016. Because overall the team isn't good enough at least on paper. But with Fitz we're in the playoff and beyond conversation. We have a fighting chance. And a very good shot at making the playoffs. A much better shot than Denver if Sanchez is the starter. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Please provide a link to the Fitz quote calling an actual Jets offer "unfair" or "an insult".  Thanks.

 

You need to pay attention instead of just blindly jumping to your girls defense.

Fans, apologists, they've called 7 million and unfair offer, an insult.

Thanks.  

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't think we'll win the SB with Fitz or anyone in 2016. Because overall the team isn't good enough at least on paper. But with Fitz we're in the playoff and beyond conversation. We have a fighting chance. And a very good shot at making the playoffs. A much better shot than Denver if Sanchez is the starter. 

Fitzpatrick has NEVER made the playoffs what makes you think he can do it with the 2016 Jets. 

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick has NEVER made the playoffs what makes you think he can do it with the 2016 Jets. 

Well Elway never won a SB until he won 2. Anything is possible. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

He was making backup money. And he started. Double that is below market. Let him quit or sign with another team if that's the way it goes. But don't tell the guy what he should do or what he should sign for. It's his business and he's negotiating a salary. Does he tell you what salary you should be making?

What you cant seem to get into your head is there isnt another team that want to sign him.  I'm not telling him what to do.  You are.  I'm telling you what his options are.  You want us to believe that quitting is an option and it gives him leverage.  Sure. Hes overpaid at 7 mil but he doesnt have to take it.  He can go home, cut off his nose to spite his face and be done with football.  He can show us, he's not going to play for 7 mil.

Of course this is pure nonsense, there isnt a chance in hell he quits and tosses away 7 mil.  You can tell yourself over and over again that he's not going to play for that kind of money.  But hey, you tell him what to do.  I have no clue what youre trying to say, he doesnt tell me what to make.  Again, you keep painting a picture where we're forcing this clown to accept $7 mil per for being slightly better than mediocre at what he does.  I get it, you love Fitz beyond belief and will defend his honor and right to turn down 7 mil as if it proves you right.  Move on already, we get it