Poll: Fitz vs Geno

[Mike135]

Ha, sorry @CrazyCarl40, just stating the facts.  

Negative rep all ya want.  Doesn't change the stats.

And here I thought Fitz supporters loved stats.

[Shadetree]

14 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

It's currently 32% to 31% in Geno's favor.

The remaining 37% say Geno if Fitz won't accept 7mil.  Which based on everything reported means...

Wait for it...

69% want Geno to start.  If Macc signs Fitz for 8mil or more (which is most likely want it'll take), 69% of us disagree with it.

Yup it could be billboard time.  I really thought Geno had no support.  Faith in my fellow Jet fans has been renewed!

Edit:  Quoted wrong person at first.

That's a big if..they prefer Fitz ...69-31 Fitz.

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Shadetree said:

That's a big if..they prefer Fitz ...69-31 Fitz.

If he signs for 7mil.  A penny more and it's 69-31 Geno.

What's more realistic?  Fitz will accept 7.  Fitz won't accept 7.

Based on everything we've heard, it's the latter.  So 69-31 Geno.

[Shadetree]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

If he signs for 7mil.  A penny more and it's 69-31 Geno.

What's more realistic?  Fitz will accept 7.  Fitz won't accept 7.

Based on everything we've heard, it's the latter.  So 69-31 Geno.

If Geno starts all year, Say hello to 5-11.

if he doesn't sign, petty/hack start more games than Geno

[Mike135]

Just now, Shadetree said:

If Geno starts all year, Say hello to 5-11.

if he doesn't sign, petty/hack start more games than Geno

May be true, may not be.  Might even be 5-11 even if we pay Fitz 10+mil.

Just good to see some Geno support.  Or lack of support for paying Fitz big.

[NYs Stepchild]

52 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

May be true, may not be.  Might even be 5-11 even if we pay Fitz 10+mil.

Just good to see some Geno support.  Or lack of support for paying Fitz big.

Not many people want to pay Fitz starter money, but that is in no way support for Geno. 

People tend to exaggerate the other side's position all the time until it becomes an obsession. 

If Fitz signs the season will be fun. Most of us will still be hoping Petty, or Hack forces his way into the starting job. 

If Geno is the starter we will have to endure a brutal season but still end up in the same position next year, so it's not worth mortgaging the future for one year. 

It's kind of like staying in a crap house you already own while you wait for your new house to be done rather than renting a decent apartment that's overpriced. You may decide to move into your new house while it's still under construction. That's what we're trying to avoid. 

[Mike135]

29 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Not many people want to pay Fitz starter money, but that is in no way support for Geno. 

People tend to exaggerate the other side's position all the time until it becomes an obsession. 

If Fitz signs the season will be fun. Most of us will still be hoping Petty, or Hack forces his way into the starting job. 

If Geno is the starter we will have to endure a brutal season but still end up in the same position next year, so it's not worth mortgaging the future for one year. 

It's kind of like staying in a crap house you already own while you wait for your new house to be done rather than renting a decent apartment that's overpriced. You may decide to move into your new house while it's still under construction. That's what we're trying to avoid. 

I dunno.  Actually it looks like there's varying degrees of support for Geno.

I personally never wanted to draft him and was sure as hell against starting him year one.  But at this point, based on what options we have available, I really do want to see him start.  Even if we could sign Fitz for 2mil.  Seems others are at least close to that opinion based on the "Geno" option getting a third of the votes.  That means they'd rather see Geno vs paying even 7mil for Fitz.

Others are a bit less enthusiastic to start Geno, but would still prefer to start him vs paying Fitz more than 7mil.

And of course there's the group (roughly a third of us, aka the potential crack addicts ) who either dislike Geno so much, or actually feel Fitz is that good, to justify coming to an agreement with Fitz @8, 10, 12+mil.

To be clear, I want to see Geno start this year no matter what happens with Fitz.  Think he'll do at least as well as Fitz if not better.  

Fitz?  It's not gonna happen, but if he'll take a 3 year deal for 15mil total, with like 8 or 9 guaranteed and maybe even some playoff bonus money...  Sign him.

[LIJetsFan]

9 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The poll is deceiving it all depends on how you look at it, I see it 32-32 tie. 

Sorry I screwed up your poll OP.  The way I see the Fitz @7m choice, it's really a Geno vote since 99% Fitz is not coming back for 7m.   

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Sorry I screwed up your poll OP.  The way I see the Fitz @7m choice, it's really a Geno vote since 99% Fitz is not coming back for 7m.   

Ha, my thoughts exactly.  That 3rd option does allow some here to bend the truth a bit, but it is a valid option.  So no worries.  

It's the option with the highest votes.  More than a third would want to sign Fitz for 7 and have him start.  I don't agree, but it's not a crazy opinion.  It's just not very realistic that he'd sign for 7.

The other Fitz option however is freakin nuts.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Sorry I screwed up your poll OP.  The way I see the Fitz @7m choice, it's really a Geno vote since 99% Fitz is not coming back for 7m.   

You actually believe that for 7 mil Fitz retires?  

 

[LIJetsFan]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

You actually believe that for 7 mil Fitz retires?  

 

It's a total mystery to me.  I mean hell, 7m isn't exactly chump change but who knows what factors are egging him on in either direction:  his agent?  his ego?  a believe that he'll get picked up for more $ during the season by a needy team?  he's rich and wouldn't mind retiring?  His wife and kids weighing in?  Other job offers on the table?  

[no psls]

Fitz gives us the best chance to win THIS year . I don't care about 5 years down the road . I paid for tickets for THIS year  and I want to win THIS year . And ******* Woody can afford it !!!!!!!!!!!

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Almosts don't count. If you did then Johnny Unitas would be a bum too. Look Fitz made enough mistakes that day without almosts. Just blast him for what he actually did. 

So almosts don't count (since they were dropped) and actuals don't count (because one can rationalize spreading that blame).

Basically, Fitzpatrick's interceptions don't count. Lol. 

[Rangers9]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So almosts don't count (since they were dropped) and actuals don't count (because one can rationalize spreading that blame).

Basically, Fitzpatrick's interceptions don't count. Lol. 

Sure they count but in terms of stats he had a great TD to int ratio. Something like 30-15. I'll take that. And 3 of those were in the 4th quarter of week 17. It doesn't matter if he isn't an all time great NFL Qb. He is a guy who can run our offense and had success with it. Why would you want to go away from that. Instead of glass half empty why not think he is going to be even better with that O after a year in this system. I mean the assumption that he is going to suck isn't logical. And really if you look at Fitz's previous stops he played well often. He's a journeyman obviously but a good one esp for this offense. 

[LIJetsFan]

With D. Smith and Peake on the roster I want someone that can throw the deep ball. 

[Rangers9]

56 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

It's a total mystery to me.  I mean hell, 7m isn't exactly chump change but who knows what factors are egging him on in either direction:  his agent?  his ego?  a believe that he'll get picked up for more $ during the season by a needy team?  he's rich and wouldn't mind retiring?  His wife and kids weighing in?  Other job offers on the table?  

He might end up taking that figure who knows. But it's below market for a starter. Just look it up. So if the difference is a couple of million bucks is it worth that to get rid of our successful starter and go to our no. 2. And a guy who had little success in 29 starts. Look I am not one of those who thinks the Geno couldn't get the job done and don't believe we would be a 5-11 with Geno starting. But the NFL is a league of percentages and our best chance to win this season is with Fitz. He's already won the locker room something Geno hasn't done. The players think they can win with Fitz.  Considering the Jets budget and what Woody is spending to operate the team a few million for a better Qb is minor. And there's ways around that to get the cap space without cutting a player. Of course I agree with anyone who says 15 mil is too much for Fitz. I wouldn't give him that but I would a 20 for 2 plus incentives. 

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So almosts don't count (since they were dropped) and actuals don't count (because one can rationalize spreading that blame).

Basically, Fitzpatrick's interceptions don't count. Lol. 

Almosts don't count, no.

Actuals do, and Fitz has his fair share of responsibility for that loss.

But the ongoing meme of "it was all on Fitz" is pure fantasy.  

[slats]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Almosts don't count, no.

Actuals do, and Fitz has his fair share of responsibility for that loss.

But the ongoing meme of "it was all on Fitz" is pure fantasy.  

It's the nature of the QB position that it always, inevitably, gets too much of the credit and too much of the blame. In Fitzpatrick's case, he seems to be enjoying a lot more of the former around here. 

[Mike135]

@Sperm Edwards and @slats, care to weigh in with a vote?  Max did.  Or is there some sort of rule mods have to stay impartial?

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Sure they count but in terms of stats he had a great TD to int ratio. Something like 30-15. I'll take that. And 3 of those were in the 4th quarter of week 17. It doesn't matter if he isn't an all time great NFL Qb. He is a guy who can run our offense and had success with it. Why would you want to go away from that. Instead of glass half empty why not think he is going to be even better with that O after a year in this system. I mean the assumption that he is going to suck isn't logical. And really if you look at Fitz's previous stops he played well often. He's a journeyman obviously but a good one esp for this offense. 

We are talking about one game. I've read plenty how blame for 1, 2, even all 3 of the picks needs to be shared with - or outright placed upon - others, because of other circumstances. Well, other circumstances are what stopped an earlier brutal pick.

So basically, either none or only one of his interceptions were his fault, therefore they don't count, and any that would have been his fault, well they don't count either. Lol.

[CrazyCarl40]

19 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

With D. Smith and Peake on the roster I want someone that can throw the deep ball. 

Throw the deep ball or throw it accurately? There are players on the roster currently that can do the former, but not the latter. No quarterback on this team has an accurate deep ball.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Almosts don't count, no.

Actuals do, and Fitz has his fair share of responsibility for that loss.

But the ongoing meme of "it was all on Fitz" is pure fantasy.  

The difference is those that happened get rationalized as being the fault of others. Those that didn't are ignored as though the pass wasn't atrocious enough to get picked off. 

If you're looking at how good of a job he did, it rings hollow when his good job requires the opponent's incompetence. 

I didn't notice you correcting anyone once, let alone repeatedly, for assigning the credit for 10 wins to Fitzpatrick. This correction is apparently only necessary when he's blamed for losses. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

@Sperm Edwards and @slats, care to weigh in with a vote?  Max did.  Or is there some sort of rule mods have to stay impartial?

I posted earlier I don't agree with any of the 3 choices, and why. 

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We are talking about one game. I've read plenty how blame for 1, 2, even all 3 of the picks needs to be shared with - or outright placed upon - others, because of other circumstances. Well, other circumstances are what stopped an earlier brutal pick.

So basically, either none or only one of his interceptions were his fault, therefore they don't count, and any that would have been his fault, well they don't count either. Lol.

Look they count and Fitz along with the entire Jets team was outplayed that game. They were just not good enough to win six in a row. And also Bowles did not do a good job getting his team up for that game. But you would expect the vets and leaders like Fitz to have played a better game. I'm not crucifying the guy for one bad game. And despite that the Jets were in a position to win that game. It wasn't like they were totally out of it. They lost by 5 and a TD would have won the game. Scenarios like that play out all of the time and teams outplayed steal games at the end. NEP is famous for that. But on that day the Jets didn't do it. And we're not NEP. 

[Rangers9]

23 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Throw the deep ball or throw it accurately? There are players on the roster currently that can do the former, but not the latter. No quarterback on this team has an accurate deep ball.

I think considering our personnel we're more in line for a West Coast kind of offense. Because we have two running backs who are excellent receivers. But we had some success with the medium to deep routes last season with Marshall and Decker. As for Smith hopefully he gives us the same dimension he gave OSU in college when people who watched him said he was an ideal long threat. And in that program which is big time and not that far from NFL that means a lot. If he can get it together on route running he could be at least a good specialty receiver. But I think our meat and potatoes is our medium to short passing game and I can see Forte being a big factor. As for Peake his big job is just to make the team. If he excels than it's just gravy. He will have to basically beat out a few guys for that slot in the receiver corps. Look I saw Fitz throw last year and he's not a noodle arm. He can throw it, too. But his biggest assets are his brains and his legs. 

[Mike135]

On 5/14/2016 at 6:29 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't really like the choices, since it doesn't allow for an actual 3-way competition in Fitzpatrick's absence. Only a fool would simply hand Geno the job again.

Oh, and I still don't like the choices even if the "competition" choice was added lol. But I wouldn't compound the crappy choice problem by tossing an 8-figure per year, multi-year commitment to Fitzpatrick. Half a season of Geno, then the better of Hackenberg/Petty to mop up the rest of the way so we can get at least a glimpse of what we've got for the 2017 offseason/draft. Plus if it's that bad we'll get a killer draft pick to help improve upon a sorry group of passers. 

 

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I posted earlier I don't agree with any of the 3 choices, and why. 

Missed your earlier post.  No one is saying you have to love the options, but the goal of this poll was to gauge the most likely options.  Otherwise the poll would have 46 options and be impossible to interpret.

Heck my ideal solution would be:  Sign Fitz for 4 or 5mil.  Let all four compete and the best one starts, but that's not gonna happen.

If you're leaning towards not spending on Fitz and would want to see a Geno/Petty/Hack battle, that is pretty much the Geno option. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look they count and Fitz along with the entire Jets team was outplayed that game. They were just not good enough to win six in a row. And also Bowles did not do a good job getting his team up for that game. But you would expect the vets and leaders like Fitz to have played a better game. I'm not crucifying the guy for one bad game. And despite that the Jets were in a position to win that game. It wasn't like they were totally out of it. They lost by 5 and a TD would have won the game. Scenarios like that play out all of the time and teams outplayed steal games at the end. NEP is famous for that. But on that day the Jets didn't do it. And we're not NEP. 

One bad game lol. Outside of the QB, this team and schedule had 14 wins written all over it. And that's why I think paying him $16M, or even $10M, is stupid. 

But like many, you agree he gets the credit for wins, but feel there need to be asterisks of shared blame when credited with losses. 

[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

One bad game lol. Outside of the QB, this team and schedule had 14 wins written all over it. And that's why I think paying him $16M, or even $10M, is stupid. 

But like many, you agree he gets the credit for wins, but feel there need to be asterisks of shared blame when credited with losses. 

We were not a 14W team last year. And basically not good enough to win six in a row. I tried finding a listing of winning streaks by NFL teams last year and couldn't find them except the obvious, Carolina and NEP. But most teams didn't win more than five in a row.  I thought the 10 Ws was pretty good for our team after a 4-12. A great step forward. And so even though we have lost a few significant pieces like Snacks and maybe even Wilk I think we are in line to make the playoffs this coming year. Anyways, we should go for it and not get rid of our starting Qb which makes no sense at all. For those guys who have appointed themselves GM and owner and don't want to pay the guy anything close to market then you're going to get what you deserve: a 1 mil a year Qb. You get what you pay for. 

[JustInFudge]

I voted Geno since Petty and Hack arent options.  Mainly because I dont see any reason to bring back Ryan Fitzpatrick.  He literally does nothing for this team.  Nothing.  All he'll do is take snaps away from someone we really need to evaluate, instead of getting a guy who's likely to land you smack dad in the 8-8 range (if he has a great season), miss the playoffs and stick us in no mans land for the draft with a guy who is a real franchise QB coming out next year, Watson.

I'm not saying tank, but if the worst case scenario from a Geno led year is a high draft pick, it could be much much worse.  You know, like going 8-8 with Ryan Fitzpatrick and having the exact same debate as this year, all over again next year, just like we did before the season last year.  Yay!

 

[Rangers9]

As for strength of schedule going into this coming season. While it's not insignificant it will change a lot in terms of which teams improve and others that go down. It did last year esp with Carolina and even Denver so you can't just look at the schedule and say: these are all Ls. Why not be a little optimistic in our team and believe that we can compete and be better than last season. I think we have the bones to be a playoff team. We don't know what's going to happen but if you always insist on being negative then you're basically a SOJ kind of fan. 

[Beerfish]

Can we redo the wording of this poll to make it more reflective of how things REALLY are?

1) Slow, old, greedy, overpaid, noodle armed lousy Fitz who can't get into the playoffs and has a crappy year but was dragged along by the chin strap by Marshall and Gailey and will wilt against a tough schedule and who wants 18 million a year for 3 years with it all guaranteed.

2)  Cheap, saintly Geno who has never had any weaponzzz and has always had a tough schedule and poor coaching and was going to be the starter last year all year who had a great game in his one game last year and will lead us to the playoffs.

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Can we redo the wording of this poll to make it more reflective of how things REALLY are?

1) Slow, old, greedy, overpaid, noodle armed lousy Fitz who can't get into the playoffs and has a crappy year but was dragged along by the chin strap by Marshall and Gailey and will wilt against a tough schedule and who wants 18 million a year for 3 years with it all guaranteed.

2)  Cheap, saintly Geno who has never had any weaponzzz and has always had a tough schedule and poor coaching and was going to be the starter last year all year who had a great game in his one game last year and will lead us to the playoffs.

No need.  Think most know those assumptions just by seeing "Fitz" or "Geno".

[ChuckkieB]

I say ANYONE on the current roster over Fitz, and if it has to be Geno for the time being, so be it.  As much as I can't stand Geno, I will root my ass off for him to be successful.  If he is, it means the Jets will have a good season.  If he isn't, he will have finally worn out his welcome and will be gone in 2017.  It's a win win as far as I'm concerned.  I will add this though - if Geno proves to be a pile of hot garbage, I would like to see Petty or even Hackenberg get some starts to close out the season.

[Rangers9]

I have to say I'm shocked that 37 people in the entire world would vote for Geno. So to me it's a vote against Fitz more than for Geno. Our fans still want a big arm little brain starting Qb. 

[cant wait]

9 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

A 25% bottom ranked QB doesn't need training camp?

That's what Fitzpatrick is. Training camp isn't going to magically turn him into a talented player