Poll: Fitz vs Geno

[win4ever]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Maybe when you go to the proctologist you can see if he can remove your head from back there. 

What? Proc...?

Let me google this.

......Oh you clever little guy.......I gotta hand it to you MENSA kids these days.  Just so wily.  

[slats]

8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Because I hope that by some miracle, he'll play well and my message board opinions will be validated and I can celebrate the wins the same way his detractors will celebrate the losses. 

This is a fun game. I wonder what the reaction will be from the other side of the room will be if Geno winds up being the starter. I'm sure you'll all just root hard for the laundry and keep your "I told you so"s to yourselves. Right? 

[CrazyCarl40]

13 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I actually have no problem resigning Wilkerson either, but I believe the hang-up is that he wants more guaranteed money upfront in the form of signing bonuses that have to be spread out evenly over the contract.   I think at best we save about 5 million or so on the cap hit this year, because Wilkerson can see how Revis played the system to get the top dollar.  

In the grand scheme of things, I don't believe the roster spot plus the restructures/cuts needed to add Fitz would lead us anywhere.  Fitz is a hold the fort guy, but what are we holding the fort with a veteran team?  If we don't restructure, alteast have the opportunity to make changes, soon rather than later.   I understand, if a great QB or player hit the market and you rob Peter to pay Paul, but Fitz isn't worth it.  

Arguing whether or not Fitz is worth it or not is one thing. Being able to afford it is another. The former is subjective. The latter is not.  They can most assuredly afford him. And paying Fitz isn't stopping the Jets from paying Wilk. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, slats said:

This is a fun game. I wonder what the reaction will be from the other side of the room will be if Geno winds up being the starter. I'm sure you'll all just root hard for the laundry and keep your "I told you so"s to yourselves. Right? 

Not at all...when I'm wrong I admit it.  Tough to fathom nowadays isn't it?

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Why do you talk? 

You have everyone report 7-10 mil, closer to 10 and you, from your mothers basement argue the numbers aren't true.  

Now you're saying there is a market because offers COULD come in camp.  Lol, where?  Who needs a QB?  Who is the market, not what might happen if a plane crashed and someone lost their QB in a crash.  

Youre throwing out words like rumors, true numbers, offers, retirement etc, words that you apparently don't actually know the meaning of. 

I will end my side of this debate with you because it's going no where. All I'm saying is these numbers are unverifiable. And none of the  press has said that they are anything other than speculation. Or given a source to these numbers. Imo Fitz isn't asking for 16 mil per season. He might be asking for 16 mil guaranteed on a 2 year 20-22 deal. Just a guess on my part. It's up to him to sign or turn down an offer. He could be in touch with other teams. Or maybe his strategy is to skip most of training camp and see if he can get a deal with a team needing a Qb later in the summer. He might think he can get his price if there's an injury or a team decided to go in a different direction. He has a lot of experience adapting to new offenses. But I think he'll sign with us and maybe they have a basic agreement in place and are just waiting for the cap space. I don't know, I'm guessing and so are you guys. 

[Sperm Edwards]

57 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I actually have no problem resigning Wilkerson either, but I believe the hang-up is that he wants more guaranteed money upfront in the form of signing bonuses that have to be spread out evenly over the contract.   I think at best we save about 5 million or so on the cap hit this year, because Wilkerson can see how Revis played the system to get the top dollar.  

In the grand scheme of things, I don't believe the roster spot plus the restructures/cuts needed to add Fitz would lead us anywhere.  Fitz is a hold the fort guy, but what are we holding the fort with a veteran team?  If we don't restructure, alteast have the opportunity to make changes, soon rather than later.   I understand, if a great QB or player hit the market and you rob Peter to pay Paul, but Fitz isn't worth it.  

If even that much. The team can construct it however they want, though. Look at Vernon's contract for the Giants. $17M/yr average & his 2016 hit is $13M. Then look at the other end of the spectrum with the $19M/year Suh contract that Tannenbaum orchestrated, where he counted only $6M in year 1

Agree with you on Fitz. If someone suddenly became available it wouldn't take more than an hour to get someone else to restructure. Unless it was another QB, though, I can't imagine who else they'd add that would warrant such a restructuring, though.

[Be_a_Jet]

1 hour ago, Colgateman said:

so why do you want the jets to sign him so bad for 10 mil+ and restructure contracts locking the jets into contracts they may not want if it means the guy is gonna regress? Which we all know he will do.

The point we are arguing is basically who gives us the best chance to win. Even if Fitz regresses he still gives us the best chance to win games. 

I think it all comes down to how much and for how many years we commit to Fitz. I think if we get him for under 12mill and a contract no greater than 2 years guaranteed - its worth it. Not just because he gives us the best chance to win but he gives us the stability the organization needs while we develop Hack/Petty.

 

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, slats said:

This is a fun game. I wonder what the reaction will be from the other side of the room will be if Geno winds up being the starter. I'm sure you'll all just root hard for the laundry and keep your "I told you so"s to yourselves. Right? 

The schadenfreude from the geno punch day should tell you what that scenario would be like on here. Looking forward to the day when we're celebrating big wins instead of disaster 

[Colgateman]

58 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The point we are arguing is basically who gives us the best chance to win. Even if Fitz regresses he still gives us the best chance to win games. 

I think it all comes down to how much and for how many years we commit to Fitz. I think if we get him for under 12mill and a contract no greater than 2 years guaranteed - its worth it. Not just because he gives us the best chance to win but he gives us the stability the organization needs while we develop Hack/Petty.

 

You know Fitzpatrick has beat less than 10 teams who finished a season with a winning record in his whole career right? How does he give us the best chance to win?

[Be_a_Jet]

24 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

You know Fitzpatrick has beat less than 10 teams who finished a season with a winning record in his whole career right? How does he give us the best chance to win?

Well thats where we're just fundamentally on different sides of it. That statistic mean zilch to me. I only judge him off his play last year since it's the play based off the team we have now. It not even that I think Geno sucks like a lot of people do - I sort of like Geno - but he's a freakin roller coaster on the field and off it. He doesn't handle losses well or ridicule from fans/media, which he will face considering the schedule we have. Like I said, Fitz gives us the best chance to win but he also gives the organization stability. I'm tired of the craziness, can we just develop a quarterback for once? Fitz allows us to do that. I don't think Geno does. We start Geno and I guarantee one of these rooks sees the field this season - which will prob be more detrimental than beneficial to their development

[joewilly12]

35 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

You know Fitzpatrick has beat less than 10 teams who finished a season with a winning record in his whole career right? How does he give us the best chance to win?

But wait it was a fun season and we won games with the schedule we had and the team we had we should have been in the playoffs,Fitz cost us the playoffs yet these damn fools want him back. 

[Jet Fan RI]

4 hours ago, paulyjet said:

I Can not believe this is even close. Obviously you geno guys don't remember how bad he was.

We remember. We just think Geno should get another chance. How would you feel if Geno went someplace else and did very well?  Something Sanchez may very well do in Denver.

[EM31]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@win4ever Carl may be crazy as a motherf***er but he is crazy correct on this. When a player is given a new contract it is typically backloaded to (a) save immediate cap space, and (b) because the tail end of the contract, in the contract's most expensive years, will fall under a much higher cap limit.

If Mo is signed to a new contract, tearing up the franchise tag in the process, he'll count less than $15.7m in 2017. The only way he won't count noticeably lower is if the team chooses not to do so (or if he is extended at $25M/year I suppose).

I do disagree that restructuring other players, like Mangold and Marshall, don't hamper the future. The additional 2016 dollars paid to them in 2017 will not be usable towards another player in 2017. That hampers the future. By how much depends on how much is pushed off to next year.

Yes and no.

First of all Mo is apparently looking for a large number guaranteed and whatever that number is gets spread evenly over the life of the deal.  Second the idea of balloon payments at the end of a contract is not allowed any more under the CBA so I am not sure how much back loading is even possible any more.

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

We remember. We just think Geno should get another chance. How would you feel if Geno went someplace else and did very well?  Something Sanchez may very well do in Denver.

Exactly,everywhere Fitzpatrick goes he sucks and fails to make the playoffs.

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

We remember. We just think Geno should get another chance. How would you feel if Geno went someplace else and did very well?  Something Sanchez may very well do in Denver.

What about Geno's play to date makes you think that is even remotely possible? Geno has had 3 chances. 3. That's too many. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

What about Geno's play to date makes you think that is even remotely possible? Geno has had 3 chances. 3. That's too many. 

Fitz has had 11 years with 6 different teams why does he deserve another chance? 

[PatsFanTX]

Fitz has had 11 years with 6 different teams why does he deserve another chance? 

Because he set one all-time Jets passing record.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitz has had 11 years with 6 different teams why does he deserve another chance? 

Answering a question with a diversion question is awesome. Good job. Can you answer a question about Geno without referencing Fitz? It's not that hard. If you're going to interject, please do better. 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitz has had 11 years with 6 different teams why does he deserve another chance? 

Answering a direct Geno question with "Fitz has...".

Obsessed much?

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Answering a question with a diversion question is awesome. Good job. Can you answer a question about Geno without referencing Fitz? It's not that hard. If you're going to interject, please do better. 

 

Just now, Warfish said:

Answering a direct Geno question with "Fitz has...".

Obsessed much?

Does the truth hurt fellas? 

[Jet Fan RI]

9 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

What about Geno's play to date makes you think that is even remotely possible? Geno has had 3 chances. 3. That's too many. 

I thought Geno only was the starter twice? Why do you say 3 chances? Anyway, he won the starting position last year but didn't really get the chance due to his broken jaw. Plus he was rushed into starting just like Sanchez was rushed in right at the start. Plus he hasn't been tried with a good supporting cast of offensive players like is there now. I'm just saying give him one more chance before tossing him onto the scrap heap.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Jet Fan RI said:

I thought Geno only was the starter twice? Why do you say 3 chances? Anyway, he won the starting position last year but din't really get the chance due to his broken jaw. Plus he was rushed into starting just like Sanchez was rushed in right at the start. Plus he hasn't been tried with a good supporting cast of of offensive players like is there now. I'm just saying give him one more chance before tossing him onto the scrap heap.

No they would rather a journeyman 34 year old who has never made the playoffs in his 11 year career with 6 different teams and did I mention this person wants over $10 million a year. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Jet Fan RI said:

I thought Geno only was the starter twice? Why do you say 3 chances? Anyway, he won the starting position last year but din't really get the chance due to his broken jaw. Plus he was rushed into starting just like Sanchez was rushed in right at the start. Plus he hasn't been tried with a good supporting cast of of offensive players like is there now. I'm just saying give him one more chance before tossing him onto the scrap heap.

Lies. Lies. And damn lies. 

Geno started for two seasons. That's two chances. He had a third chance and ended up with a broken jaw. That's three. Blew them all with poor on field decisions and off field decisions. 

His first season he had garbage players, sure. In his second season he had: Decker, Harvin, Kerley, Amaro, Ivory, Powell etc etc. That may not be a murderer's row but it's not the worst I've seen. He got worse in his second season and was replaced multiple times by a guy who didn't even want to be there. 

[Rangers9]

Geno Smith had 29 starts. Isn't that a fair enough sample size. Mark had over 60. Isn't it time this franchise learned from their mistakes. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

Lies. Lies. And damn lies. 

Geno started for two seasons. That's two chances. He had a third chance and ended up with a broken jaw. That's three. Blew them all with poor on field decisions and off field decisions. 

His first season he had garbage players, sure. In his second season he had: Decker, Harvin, Kerley, Amaro, Ivory, Powell etc etc. That may not be a murderer's row but it's not the worst I've seen. He got worse in his second season and was replaced multiple times by a guy who didn't even want to be there. 

BIGGER LIES 

He had Clyde Gates and David Nelson and other no names. 

He also had the worst offensive coordinator in the league MM. 

Decker played with an injury. Harvin was injured Amaro what has he done to date?  

He finished 8-8 with a much tougher schedule than Fitzpatrick had in 2015. 

[Jet Fan RI]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Lies. Lies. And damn lies. 

Geno started for two seasons. That's two chances. He had a third chance and ended up with a broken jaw. That's three. Blew them all with poor on field decisions and off field decisions. 

His first season he had garbage players, sure. In his second season he had: Decker, Harvin, Kerley, Amaro, Ivory, Powell etc etc. That may not be a murderer's row but it's not the worst I've seen. He got worse in his second season and was replaced multiple times by a guy who didn't even want to be there. 

If you're citing Mark Twain, you forgot statistics, In any event, do you really count last year as a chance when Geno was sidelined by an injury?? My main concern is that the Jets may dump this guy and he goes on to greatness someplace else.  Heaven help us if that happens.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Jet Fan RI said:

If you're citing Mark Twain, you forgot statistics, In any event, do you really count last year as a chance when Geno was sidelined by an injury?? My main concern is that the Jets may dump this guy and he goes on to greatness someplace else.  Heaven help us if that happens.

Meanwhile we retain a 34 yr old QB and we will continue our drought of a Super Bowl.............The New York Jets

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, Jet Fan RI said:

If you're citing Mark Twain, you forgot statistics, In any event, do you really count last year as a chance when Geno was sidelined by an injury?? My main concern is that the Jets may dump this guy and he goes on to greatness someplace else.  Heaven help us if that happens.

I want to count last year as much as the other three. It shows not only the type of player he is, but also the type of human. It was a self inflicted wound in the biggest spot of his career. He blew it. He'll be lucky to catch on anywhere else when he's done with the Jets, and even luckier to find a chance to start anywhere else. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

I want to count last year as much as the other three. It shows not only the type of player he is, but also the type of human. It was a self inflicted wound in the biggest spot of his career. He blew it. He'll be lucky to catch on anywhere else when he's done with the Jets, and even luckier to find a chance to start anywhere else. 

Fitzpatrick has had 11 years with 6 different teams. 

[BUM-KNEE]

29 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick has had 11 years with 6 different teams. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

What about Geno's play to date makes you think that is even remotely possible? Geno has had 3 chances. 3. That's too many. 

That his numbers against Oakland project to better than Fitzs numbers over the course of a season?  In an emergency situation and all that takes into account? 

Something no one who roots against Geno will accept while saying things like he had his chance.  He costs less, is younger and I don't see the drop off.  Or why fans ignore the shlt games and blown playoffs.  Why not  make the same excuses for Geno as the pathetic excuses made for Fitz. 

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

ALI LARTER AND BEYONCE MADE A MOVIE TOGETHER???

[win4ever]

7 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Arguing whether or not Fitz is worth it or not is one thing. Being able to afford it is another. The former is subjective. The latter is not.  They can most assuredly afford him. And paying Fitz isn't stopping the Jets from paying Wilk. 

How is this objective?  Do we have the money to sign Fitz now?  Nope.  To accommodate him into the cap, we have to restructure contracts, possibly get Wilkerson's cap number down, etc.  That's subjective, because you have to weigh the opportunity costs.  

This is like saying, I want an RV but I can't fit one in my budget.  However, if I refinance my home and get a loan on the car, I sure as heck can buy one, and then saying my ability to buy an RV is objectively positive.  There are consequences down the road that make the purchase irrational.   

To pay Fitz, the Jets have to work cap magic, and restructure folks.  To create enough cap space, you have to cave into the demands of others because they aren't just lowering their salaries without reason.  You either have to extend players or cut players to create room.  The value of creating that space is subjective, because you have to evaluate the sacrifices you have to make to attain that goal.   

If you want to say, I'm willing to redo contracts or cut people to have Fitz, I'm fine with that.  That's your opinion.  However, please don't act like we somehow have this secret cap space saved somewhere that we can dig into without consequence in regards to the future, and we're just sitting on our hands idle.  

[win4ever]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If even that much. The team can construct it however they want, though. Look at Vernon's contract for the Giants. $17M/yr average & his 2016 hit is $13M. Then look at the other end of the spectrum with the $19M/year Suh contract that Tannenbaum orchestrated, where he counted only $6M in year 1

Agree with you on Fitz. If someone suddenly became available it wouldn't take more than an hour to get someone else to restructure. Unless it was another QB, though, I can't imagine who else they'd add that would warrant such a restructuring, though.

The Suh contract is horrible though, to get the cap number down in the first year, they guaranteed him an insane number with pretty much no protection to move on if needed.  If Suh gets injury prone, they aren't really moving him until 2019, and that's a sacrifice that is hard to swallow.  

I understand that they can restructure, but that also has sacrifices that I feel aren't worth it for Fitz.  A good QB is available, yeah, sure as heck go nuts to take that shot, but it's not worth it for Fitz.  And without those restructures, we're not fitting in any QB of value.  

Brock Osweiler got 72 million this offseason to be a QB.  His stats last year with a loaded team are slightly better than Geno in his last full year.  +4 in QBR, +9 in QB rating, same TD%, -1.4 INT%.  Same age.  Bill O'Brien knows Fitz, available for much cheaper, and they still dished out tons of money to the guy, and passed over the known guy in Fitz for a team that is built to win now.  I'm not saying, Geno will get paid 72 million anytime soon, but if a coach known for his complex system is willing to bypass on-field genius Fitz, why are people clamoring for him to return here?  I think I, you, and others have mentioned the schedule he faced last year in other threads, the weapons he had at his disposal, and pretty much no team coming close to signing him, yet he gets treated like a God here.  

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, win4ever said:

How is this objective?  Do we have the money to sign Fitz now?  Nope.  To accommodate him into the cap, we have to restructure contracts, possibly get Wilkerson's cap number down, etc.  That's subjective, because you have to weigh the opportunity costs.  

This is like saying, I want an RV but I can't fit one in my budget.  However, if I refinance my home and get a loan on the car, I sure as heck can buy one, and then saying my ability to buy an RV is objectively positive.  There are consequences down the road that make the purchase irrational.   

To pay Fitz, the Jets have to work cap magic, and restructure folks.  To create enough cap space, you have to cave into the demands of others because they aren't just lowering their salaries without reason.  You either have to extend players or cut players to create room.  The value of creating that space is subjective, because you have to evaluate the sacrifices you have to make to attain that goal.   

If you want to say, I'm willing to redo contracts or cut people to have Fitz, I'm fine with that.  That's your opinion.  However, please don't act like we somehow have this secret cap space saved somewhere that we can dig into without consequence in regards to the future, and we're just sitting on our hands idle.  

Teams do it all the time. I'm not sure why you're so mad on the Internet. The Jets had to restructure Carpenter earlier to make room for defensive lineman. They'll do it again soon to fit the rookies, or someone is getting cut. It's the nature of the beast and the business. When they bring back Fitz, they'll do it again and they'll do it in a smart way. Unless you have zero faith in these guys and the new regime.

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

That his numbers against Oakland project to better than Fitzs numbers over the course of a season?  In an emergency situation and all that takes into account? 

Something no one who roots against Geno will accept while saying things like he had his chance.  He costs less, is younger and I don't see the drop off.  Or why fans ignore the shlt games and blown playoffs.  Why not  make the same excuses for Geno as the pathetic excuses made for Fitz. 

So accept a small sample size over the larger one? If take Geno's numbers and extrapolate them over an entire season, he goes 0-16. See how silly that is? Cheaper and younger isn't always better and it doesn't matter what you think of the drop off. All that matters is what TB and MM think. You know, the paid professionals.