Too Late for Jets About-Face on Fitz?

[Mike135]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Geno Smith, two years as a starting QB, the worst QB in the NFL both years.  

Coincidence that he was also in the worst situation a QB could be in those two years, and that those were his first two years in the league?

Purely speculation, but does anyone think Luck, Mariota or Winston would have done much better in 2013 and '14?  I don't.  In a passing league, we were having open (off the street) tryouts for WR and DB.  

Maybe some of your top notch experienced QBs (e.g. Brees, Brady, Rodgers) could have done decently on those teams.

[Smashmouth]

10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

You seriously do not get that Fitz is NOT on any planet a "starting QB" He is a journeyman career backup that started a season because of injury to the starter and then had a decent season. He is still and will always be an above average backup, nothing more.

funny how he starts everywhere he goes and the last few years has played well. This team has no other options right now so please just stop with the bullsh*t that Fitz is a back up because he's not.

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

funny how he starts everywhere he goes and the last few years has played well. This team has no other options right now so please just stop with the bullsh*t that Fitz is a back up because he's not.

He starts and then gets shipped out because he's not a starter.  He's a tad too good for his own well being.  Being a top quality backup, dumb teams get fooled into thinking he can start.  Then he ends up sacking and the team(s) have wasted years and money.

I'm hoping we're not that dumb.  He is a backup.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Coincidence that he was also in the worst situation a QB could be in those two years, and that those were his first two years in the league?

Purely speculation, but does anyone think Luck, Mariota or Winston would have done much better in 2013 and '14?  I don't.  In a passing league, we were having open (off the street) tryouts for WR and DB.  

Maybe some of your top notch experienced QBs (e.g. Brees, Brady, Rodgers) could have done decently on those teams.

You really need to watch QB's play. Geno Smith has exhibited most of the things you DONT want to do as a starting QB and those things happen in the pocket. They have nothing to do with what receivers you have. Now obviously if Geno was doing all the correct things like stepping up in the pocket and not throwing off his back foot and not constantly running out of the pocket you could make the argument he had potential and needed better receivers but he does none of those things good and he does not protect the football either.

His pre snap reads are just as Bad as Sanchez' were. Sanchez biggest problems were his pre snap reads and his poor protection with the football. He had good mechanics and footwork and was in a poor offensive design. I felt he had potential I don't see those same things in Geno at all. Sanchez was also not an Idiot off the field or in the locker room so there's that as well.

This debate is getting old and stupid. QB's who put up one of the best years in a franchises history don't get bashed by the fan base especially this miserable fan base. Fitz deserves a chance to play because he earned it with a team that was in Gaileys offense for the first time with one season under their belts. They should be much better this year with a QB who knows the system, protects the football, has a good working relationship with the entire team, and can make a great impression on the young guys we have coming up.

Anyone pushing for Geno Smith to run this team with the way its currently constructed has to be a complete Idiot. Not because Geno is a young player but because this team is built to win now and since we have a veteran who showed he can play well for us this is not the time to speculate if Geno is going to take the next step based on what hes doing in 7 on 7 drills in freaking shorts. he plays scared and he will ALWAYS play scared and once you see that trait in a QB you might as well move on because its not going to change

[Smashmouth]

10 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

He starts and then gets shipped out because he's not a starter.  He's a tad too good for his own well being.  Being a top quality backup, dumb teams get fooled into thinking he can start.  Then he ends up sacking and the team(s) have wasted years and money.

I'm hoping we're not that dumb.  He is a backup.

yeah we got fooled into a 10 6 record with 33 td's from the QB and the best offense we have fielded in 18 years. How deradful

[Rangers9]

24 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

yeah we got fooled into a 10 6 record with 33 td's from the QB and the best offense we have fielded in 18 years. How deradful

How can they say, "Well he was lucky last year. But ten years ago he sucked." I mean who cares if he was lucky. Give the credit to everyone else but him if you want. But if something works you don't scrap it. You see if it works again or even better. There is no excuse for the Jets to not re-sign this player. The money issue and any cap problem can be worked out if they want to work it out. As for the upcoming schedule. We haven't played it yet, gentlemen.That's the whole idea of the season. This is our entertainment. I'm looking forward to it and not accepting negativity. We have a good enough team to win this upcoming year against any team. All playoff bound teams have to go through the better teams to make it. If you're afraid of the opponents then forfeit in advance. 

[JohnnyLV]

On 6/28/2016 at 10:51 AM, Rangers9 said:

12/6/6 for a Qb is chicken feed. Nobody is paying a starting Qb that amount of money. You expect your team to adequately budget for the Qb position and have the cap space to fit him in at a competitive salary. I'm not talking about make believe numbers that some of our silly posters are fabricating. If Hack is Mac's guy then have the cojones to start him now. It's not like rookies don't start their first season. Unless Mac is afraid to start his future maybe franchise Qb. I mean most Jets fans look at our roster and see a potential playoff team this year. 

 

Your posts just get dumber and dumber. I just hope you are trolling because no one can be this blind to the actual worth of a QB

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

Coincidence that he was also in the worst situation a QB could be in those two years, and that those were his first two years in the league?

It's not a coincidence, it's cause and effect.  Whatever talent we had on that roster, Geno Smith made it look far worse that it otherwise could have.  Put another way, had we had a Wayne Chrebet on that roster, no one would have ever known who Wayne Chrebet was because of how bad the QB throwing to him was.  Geno Smith ended careers that year. 

And  once again, I utterly reject the "worst situation" and "no talent" labels when it comes to 2014.  Marshall is the only material difference year-to-year between 2014 and 2015.  He makes a difference, absolutely, but he does not make as much difference as there is between 2014 production and 2015 production.

And Geno Smith had every chance to be our starter in 2015.  The job was his, handed to him competition-free.  He screwed up that third opportunity due to his own lack of leadership and maturity.  Starting NFL QB's do not get their glass jaws broken by their own Linebackers. 

The argument for Geno starting should avoid all the excuse making, "fair chance" rhetoric and mentions of his so-called "potential", and stick to the real, workable, logical and legitimate arguments.  Geno is cheaper, younger, already signed, and completely disposable should one of the two kids show us anything worthwhile or should he falter this season.  Geno Smith can = Petty or Hack playing sooner if they're ready.  And unlike Fitz, he costs us next to nothing, and no one has to be cut to have him.  

With that said, we should then be honest that 2016 is not a year we plan to be competative for the playoffs, it's a transition year and a rebuilding year and Geno is just the placeholder.  If we want to accept, in advance, a 5-6 win season and transition because Fitz is simply too expensive for his extremely short-term gains, so be it.

Quote

Purely speculation, but does anyone think Luck, Mariota or Winston would have done much better in 2013 and '14?  I don't.

I do, unquestionably.  Just look what Luck has turned T.Y. Hilton (hardly a supernatural talent) into.

 

[SouthernJet]

Decker said that on 3 of his TDs last year he was the 3rd read on the play. I want a QB who can go through his progressions lightening fast while rush coming in so a WR can make that comment every year. I dont see it ever being Geno. He bails when Primary covered and scrambles backwards (never figured that one out, lose yardage, FG etc)

[Rangers9]

Here's a no-brainer for people with no brains:

Did the offense work last year: YES

Was it our best offensive production since 2010: YES

Did we have a winning record: Hell YES

Did the Qb competently run the offense: You bet your ass he did!

Do you replace him: Are you crazy!

 

[Big Blocker]

14 hours ago, fltflo said:

So of Fitz is the starter and goes 1-3 the "fans " would be okay with that ??!

Who said they would be okay???  The real answer to your question is even if that happened, AT LEAST the FO would have put the best Qb available on the field.  They would be seen as having done their best.

They will not have done their best if Smith is the Qb.  They would have done their suckiest worst.

The difference should be obvious.  I don't know what else to say if it does not seem to be for you.

[Big Blocker]

13 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

To me it's a different scenario. If the Jets sign Fitz after a 10-6 and a good year and our best offense in years. And most fans think Fitz was an integral part of that. Then not angry because we feel the org did their job and signed the BAP at Qb. No one can guarantee any player will have a good year. It's kind of like the Mets and Cespedes. They're not hitting now even with him and losing games. But not the orgs fault because they went out and got the BAP and spent the money. 

Exactly.

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Exactly.

There's plenty of guys in all sports who sign contracts and then don't live up to them. It happens every day. Guys like Albert Pulojs sign 10 year deals and then the franchise is stuck with them for huge money. Or A-Rod. So the risk with Fitz is minimal if he just signs a one year deal. Based on what he did last year and his rapport with the players and the coaching staff odds are he'll play well again. And I don't mind and either does Marshall if he has to jump up to catch Td passes. I'll take "almost incompletions" any day.

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

 

Anyone pushing for Geno Smith to run this team with the way its currently constructed has to be a complete Idiot. Not because Geno is a young player but because this team is built to win now and since we have a veteran who showed he can play well for us this is not the time to speculate if Geno is going to take the next step based on what hes doing in 7 on 7 drills in freaking shorts. he plays scared and he will ALWAYS play scared and once you see that trait in a QB you might as well move on because its not going to change

Damn, I have to agree with this, and I really don't like thinking that some of my fellow Jet fans fit the description in the first sentence, but then they go and prove it with all their Geno pom pom waving rose colored glasses wearing factually challenged Smith bs.  And I don't get the way Smith fans can't see how he only plays well when the pressure's off.  It's obvious to me.

"This debate is getting old and stupid" - Here, though, I must qualify your statement.  What you describe is true of one side of the debate, but not the other.

[whodeawhodat]

12 hours ago, fltflo said:

It statements like this,especially how you end it with the personal insult that makes it hard to see how you can or want to be even slightly objective in this matter.

While many of us who would like to see Geno start for both financial reasons,crazy to pay a QB you plan on only playing one or two years if that,big money. An just because we know Geno has much better PHYSICAL skills then Fitz.

Many fans such as yourself seem to have a personal HATE that blinds you. One has to wonder where this hate is based and why it's so strong.

You are certainly entitled to you opinion, and while I vehemently disagree, I respect your right to have it.

Yet, I want you and others to know, many of us who want Geno to start would have no problem having Fitz back in his original role as backup and at a salary that allows the Jets room to maneuver this year and next.

I also want you to know that I appreciated all the Fitz did last year to make it a exciting season. I recognize that Geno may fall flat on his face and be as bad as he was and never amount to more then a mediocre back up.

Yet, I want to be damn sure we are not giving up on a player who will move on and play well for someone else.

Geno is a win/win with our schedule this year, if he plays well we may have our answer at

QB for the next few years or until one of the other kids unseat him. If he sucks, then the chance of getting a top draft choice maybe even a can't miss QB prospect is a possibility.



If Geno starts and does well this year, would you be okay with giving him a large contract?  

[PatsFanTX]

Here's a no-brainer for people with no brains:

Did the offense work last year: YES

Was it our best offensive production since 2010: YES

Did we have a winning record: Hell YES

Did the Qb competently run the offense: You bet your ass he did!

 

Did he lead the Jets to the playoffs? NO

[Rangers9]

Just now, PatsFanTX said:

Did he lead the Jets to the playoffs? NO

Well we count "almost" playoffs?.

[SouthernJet]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well we count "almost" playoffs?.

You have to admit Tx (when u put serious hat on) the Jets w/Fitz did great last year considering the team was dealing with 3 new playbooks (Tuna said once it takes 2 years to fully install a NFL playbook), STs/Off and Def, plus whole new coach staff..playoffs=no, I agree, but not bad considering the kerfuffles thrown their way

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

You have to admit Tx (when u put serious hat on) the Jets w/Fitz did great last year considering the team was dealing with 3 new playbooks (Tuna said once it takes 2 years to fully install a NFL playbook), STs/Off and Def, plus whole new coach staff..playoffs=no, I agree, but not bad considering the kerfuffles thrown their way

Look if we have to make excuses for guys catching balls and winning games (you know like the opponents sucked) you know like apologize for winning, I guess we can make excuses for losing on week 17 which was a game we "almost" won. 

[SouthernJet]

6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look if we have to make excuses for guys catching balls and winning games (you know like the opponents sucked) you know like apologize for winning, I guess we can make excuses for losing on week 17 which was a game we "almost" won. 

No excuses, we over performed last year IMHO. A great season... last week was horrid and gut wrenching, but never expected to be there with factors I listed..

[slats]

21 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look if we have to make excuses for guys catching balls and winning games (you know like the opponents sucked) you know like apologize for winning, I guess we can make excuses for losing on week 17 which was a game we "almost" won. 

It's not excuse making, it's context. Something that Fitz's staunchest proponents (yes, that would certainly be you) remain completely oblivious to. The Jets had the easiest schedule in the NFL last year. They played their first 15 games in remarkably mild weather. The only time Fitzpatrick's pea-shooter was challenged by weather in any way, he completely crapped the bed. 

Setting the Jets passing TD record says more about the pathetic nature of Jets' passing records than it does about Ryan Fitzpatrick's abilities. 

[PatsFanTX]

You have to admit Tx (when u put serious hat on) the Jets w/Fitz did great last year considering the team was dealing with 3 new playbooks (Tuna said once it takes 2 years to fully install a NFL playbook), STs/Off and Def, plus whole new coach staff..playoffs=no, I agree, but not bad considering the kerfuffles thrown their way

Fitz had a great, over-achieving season last year. No argument here.

However, everything played out perfectly for him. Easiest schedule in the NFL, Marshall and Decker having monster seasons and 15 out of 16 games were played in absolute perfect weather conditions.

Given the Jets schedule this year, and the number of late-season night games, the chance of Fitz replicating that performance is probably less than 5%.

[Mainejet]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

TLDR:  Those who oppose starting Geno Smith are closet racists, nbs?  Lol, right.

As for opposition, perhaps you forgot things like this:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/geno-smith-voted-worst-qb-in-nfl-for-second-straight-year-072115

Geno Smith, two years as a starting QB, the worst QB in the NFL both years.  In year three, with yet another unearned opportunity in front of him, he managed to provide one of the most embarrassing events in Jets history, having the starting QB put on the injured list by his own guy.  

If you cannot understand why "some fans" may oppose Geno Smith on the basis of being the worst QB in the NFL his two full seasons, and an utter embarrassment in his third season, then you're simply not trying very hard to understand the opposing viewpoint.  Conversely, the pro-Geno position makes some logical sense, he is cheaper, younger, more physically gifted, agreed on all counts.  But none of that matters if one thinks he will never "get it" and actually improve.

All the same old same old rhetoric about "not giving up on a player who will move on and play well for someone else", "just needs a fair chance", "just needs talent around him", "just needs better coaching"......we've heard it all before, almost to the letter.  Mark "Buttfumble" Sanchez had all the same things said about him.  And while he was pretty bad, he wasn't the worst QB in the NFL in his time here.  

Perhaps you may want to consider that some fans feel they've seen enough of Geno Smith, and feel an accurate opinion can, in fact, be formed based on the three years he has been a NY Jet, and they find him seriously lacking.  Not that some veiled racism is behind it, but an objective view of Geno's poor play and poor behavior since he arrived in NY.

I mean really, do you think if we cut bait with Geno now, next year he'll go to New England, replace Tom Brady, and win 4 Super Bowls?  The last thing that drives me to want to see Geno play is fear he'll win elsewhere.

 

 

 

Very well said Warfish. Quite frankly, I am so done with all of this racist accusation crap that now I don't even acknowledge it, I just criticize where I see fit. Geno Smith had EVERY opportunity and he did NOTHING with those opportunities. But for whatever reason, most of the pro Geno crowd is too dense to realize that when you were already given a two year stint to show something as a QB and he was the VERY lowest rated QB both years, or you caused major embarrassment for your employer, those are grounds for being FIRED. Hence the reason, I (and you I would imagine) want Geno CUT. In ANY other workplace if you had pulled the same nonsense as Geno has with the NYJ, you would have FIRED long ago. That's a fact. Now, if that makes me a racist? GREAT, I'll wear my white suit proudly....

[SouthernJet]

40 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Fitz had a great, over-achieving season last year. No argument here.

 

However, everything played out perfectly for him. Easiest schedule in the NFL, Marshall and Decker having monster seasons and 15 out of 16 games were played in absolute perfect weather conditions.

 

Given the Jets schedule this year, and the number of late-season night games, the chance of Fitz replicating that performance is probably less than 5%.

all true, but I think one also has to take into account three new playbooks for the team and a new coaching staff..... cant just take stuff that is in his favor, some stuff , not in his favor........

[SouthernJet]

8 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Very well said Warfish. Quite frankly, I am so done with all of this racist accusation crap that now I don't even acknowledge it, I just criticize where I see fit. Geno Smith had EVERY opportunity and he did NOTHING with those opportunities. But for whatever reason, most of the pro Geno crowd is too dense to realize that when you were already given a two year stint to show something as a QB and he was the VERY lowest rated QB both years, or you caused major embarrassment for your employer, those are grounds for being FIRED. Hence the reason, I (and you I would imagine) want Geno CUT. In ANY other workplace if you had pulled the same nonsense as Geno has with the NYJ, you would have FIRED long ago. That's a fact. Now, if that makes me a racist? GREAT, I'll wear my white suit proudly....

agree, plus he cant read Progressions. Would have learned by now, he panics after Primary covered cause he doesnt know routes and takes too long to find #2/3 WRs.. hence Decker saying on 3 TDs "I was 3rd read on those TDs". 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Your posts just get dumber and dumber. I just hope you are trolling because no one can be this blind to the actual worth of a QB

Cmon, you can disagree but you have to find a better way than that.

[Rangers9]

56 minutes ago, slats said:

It's not excuse making, it's context. Something that Fitz's staunchest proponents (yes, that would certainly be you) remain completely oblivious to. The Jets had the easiest schedule in the NFL last year. They played their first 15 games in remarkably mild weather. The only time Fitzpatrick's pea-shooter was challenged by weather in any way, he completely crapped the bed. 

Setting the Jets passing TD record says more about the pathetic nature of Jets' passing records than it does about Ryan Fitzpatrick's abilities. 

No alibis in my book for strength of schedule which is a variable and highly debatable. I'll take those Ws with no asterisks. I mean you make it sound like we were playing Michigan State. You can go over every good team that won and SB team in the history of the NFL and they'll all take any W they could get. And if their fans are so negative that they say they don't count: nobody listens to them. 

[faba]

If you people can not disagree without insulting others leave- there simple

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, faba said:

If you people can not disagree without insulting others leave- there simple

Who the hell are you calling "you people"?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/02/08/694838/-Is-You-People-racist

 

[RutgersJetFan]

13 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Cmon, you can disagree but you have to find a better way than that.

 

10 minutes ago, faba said:

If you people can not disagree without insulting others leave- there simple

How long have you guys been members here?

[faba]

48 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

 

How long have you guys been members here?

Too long

[Jetsplayer21]

16 hours ago, fltflo said:

It statements like this,especially how you end it with the personal insult that makes it hard to see how you can or want to be even slightly objective in this matter.

While many of us who would like to see Geno start for both financial reasons,crazy to pay a QB you plan on only playing one or two years if that,big money. An just because we know Geno has much better PHYSICAL skills then Fitz.

Many fans such as yourself seem to have a personal HATE that blinds you. One has to wonder where this hate is based and why it's so strong.

You are certainly entitled to you opinion, and while I vehemently disagree, I respect your right to have it.

Yet, I want you and others to know, many of us who want Geno to start would have no problem having Fitz back in his original role as backup and at a salary that allows the Jets room to maneuver this year and next.

I also want you to know that I appreciated all the Fitz did last year to make it a exciting season. I recognize that Geno may fall flat on his face and be as bad as he was and never amount to more then a mediocre back up.

Yet, I want to be damn sure we are not giving up on a player who will move on and play well for someone else.

Geno is a win/win with our schedule this year, if he plays well we may have our answer at

QB for the next few years or until one of the other kids unseat him. If he sucks, then the chance of getting a top draft choice maybe even a can't miss QB prospect is a possibility.



I honestly believe some of these fitz fan groupies/geno haters will be absolutely miserable if geno does as well as fitz.. I'm not saying it will happen, but if geno did mirror fitz season I honestly think they will not be happy and will root against the kid.. They certainly will be ghosts in here..

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I honestly believe some of these fitz fan groupies/geno haters will be absolutely miserable if geno does as well as fitz.. I'm not saying it will happen, but if geno did mirror fitz season I honestly think they will not be happy and will root against the kid.. They certainly will be ghosts in here..

I can't speak for other, but if Geno Smith leads a close-to-top-10 Offense, throws 30+ TD's, 15 or less INT's, and we win 10 games and have a should-win in to make the playoffs in the final week of the season, I will be ecstatic.

I've said it since the day I first posted on J.I., I would MUCH rather be wrong and win, that right and lose.  Winning is everything, as the saying goes (and with some minor character exceptions IMO).

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

I can't speak for other, but if Geno Smith leads a close-to-top-10 Offense, throws 30+ TD's, 15 or less INT's, and we win 10 games and have a should-win in to make the playoffs in the final week of the season, I will be ecstatic.

I've said it since the day I first posted on J.I., I would MUCH rather be wrong and win, that right and lose.  Winning is everything, as the saying goes (and with some minor character exceptions IMO).

There are only few posters who I won't name defiantly would be rooting against geno. If we win with geno it will be " product of the supporting cast " yet the fitzies don't like to use that excuse when praising fitz ha.. I would like to see fitz come back.. If he signs before the 1st day of training camp.. I think Bowles will tell mac to forget fitz if he doesn't sign the ONLY deal he is being offered.. Geno can always be right there ready to go if fitz picks up where he left off in buffalo.. I have no faith in petty being 1 snap away from being the starter.. You need a dependable backup.. Petty not stepping up enough to be the 2 helps fitz a lot.. Otherwise jets probably would have already told fitz to F off..

[afjetsfan]

I think Fitz and the Jets will come to some compromise.  Probably 24 mil over 2 years is my guess or 3 years 36 mil (without the incentive bullsh*t clause).  I don't think the Jets will get fitz to sign the 3 year contract as it stands.  But who knows.  I can actually see Fitz signing a 1 yr 6-8 mil contract as long as he has the ability to move and make more after this year.  34-35 is still not that old.....Look at Brady he is going to be 39 in Aug.  How much would we be willing to pay him if he was a free agent?