Lets look at 2017

[CanadaSteve]

First off, this post by Rex-n-effect deserves to be read here:

The roster was in such an awful state after Idzik left that it's going to be a multi-year project to put together a viable team. You can't buy or draft at every position in one or two years and even if you could not all draft picks reach starter skill level right away. Macc couldn't just sit and spend the minimum until he can draft together a team. Woody wouldn't tolerate it, the fans wouldn't tolerate it and players wouldn't tolerate it. Players wouldn't come here or won't stay if the team is trash--

If you think about how much they had to cut out of the team--even starters--and how much rebuilding has already been done then it's hard to say Macc has done a poor job. You can look at several positions and say there is still work to do. I agree, I think everybody agrees, but that comes back to the inability to take a team from the broken and dysfunctional state of 2013/2014 to a playoff team in just two years. We didn't just need replacements at skill positions like a typical rebuild. We needed starters and depth almost everywhere. 

 

The whole concept about the veterans and the wasted money is hogwash.  Mac HAD to spend money to get this team reasonably competitive.  Last year was a fluke.

But when you look at next year, most of those contracts disappear.

David Harris: Thought we could get two more years, but his play has definitely regressed.  But he has no dead money next year, and saves $6.5 million in a cut.

Nick Mangold: His play is still reasonable, but it won't be long.  He could be restructured, but an outright cut saves $9 million

Brandon Marshall:  With the young depth at this position, he may not be needed, and he is not looking the same anymore.  Another $7.5 million

Darrelle Revis: While this will hurt, it might have to be done.  It will cost $8 million in dead money, but save $7 million as well.

Breno Giacomini:  Enough said.  $4.5 million

Sheldon Richardson: He can be cut with no dead money, but he might make interesting trade bait, especially with Watts going down.  With a contract that has no dead money, if we traded him we could use a pick to shore up another position AND save $8 million next year.

Marcus Gilchrist: While serviceable, it is another position that will need a better upgrade, so $5.3 million can be saved to do just that.

Ryan Clady: If he stays healthy and looks good, his $10 million will become a longer term deal.

Most of the big contracts will be gone.  The roster has some talent now, but it is still about two years away.  The key, as with every franchise, is the QB position.  I hope Mac does not shy away from drafting another QB if the opportunity arises.  If we do not get one, it won't matter if we have Von Miller talent at half the starting positions.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

First off, this post by Rex-n-effect deserves to be read here:

The roster was in such an awful state after Idzik left that it's going to be a multi-year project to put together a viable team. You can't buy or draft at every position in one or two years and even if you could not all draft picks reach starter skill level right away. Macc couldn't just sit and spend the minimum until he can draft together a team. Woody wouldn't tolerate it, the fans wouldn't tolerate it and players wouldn't tolerate it. Players wouldn't come here or won't stay if the team is trash--

If you think about how much they had to cut out of the team--even starters--and how much rebuilding has already been done then it's hard to say Macc has done a poor job. You can look at several positions and say there is still work to do. I agree, I think everybody agrees, but that comes back to the inability to take a team from the broken and dysfunctional state of 2013/2014 to a playoff team in just two years. We didn't just need replacements at skill positions like a typical rebuild. We needed starters and depth almost everywhere. 

 

The whole concept about the veterans and the wasted money is hogwash.  Mac HAD to spend money to get this team reasonably competitive.  Last year was a fluke.

But when you look at next year, most of those contracts disappear.

David Harris: Thought we could get two more years, but his play has definitely regressed.  But he has no dead money next year, and saves $6.5 million in a cut.

Nick Mangold: His play is still reasonable, but it won't be long.  He could be restructured, but an outright cut saves $9 million

Brandon Marshall:  With the young depth at this position, he may not be needed, and he is not looking the same anymore.  Another $7.5 million

Darrelle Revis: While this will hurt, it might have to be done.  It will cost $8 million in dead money, but save $7 million as well.

Breno Giacomini:  Enough said.  $4.5 million

Sheldon Richardson: He can be cut with no dead money, but he might make interesting trade bait, especially with Watts going down.  With a contract that has no dead money, if we traded him we could use a pick to shore up another position AND save $8 million next year.

Marcus Gilchrist: While serviceable, it is another position that will need a better upgrade, so $5.3 million can be saved to do just that.

Ryan Clady: If he stays healthy and looks good, his $10 million will become a longer term deal.

Most of the big contracts will be gone.  The roster has some talent now, but it is still about two years away.  The key, as with every franchise, is the QB position.  I hope Mac does not shy away from drafting another QB if the opportunity arises.  If we do not get one, it won't matter if we have Von Miller talent at half the starting positions.

The fact hat he was looking at Kizer tells me that he is no averse to drafting another QB.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

First off, this post by Rex-n-effect deserves to be read here:

The roster was in such an awful state after Idzik left that it's going to be a multi-year project to put together a viable team. You can't buy or draft at every position in one or two years and even if you could not all draft picks reach starter skill level right away. Macc couldn't just sit and spend the minimum until he can draft together a team. Woody wouldn't tolerate it, the fans wouldn't tolerate it and players wouldn't tolerate it. Players wouldn't come here or won't stay if the team is trash--

If you think about how much they had to cut out of the team--even starters--and how much rebuilding has already been done then it's hard to say Macc has done a poor job. You can look at several positions and say there is still work to do. I agree, I think everybody agrees, but that comes back to the inability to take a team from the broken and dysfunctional state of 2013/2014 to a playoff team in just two years. We didn't just need replacements at skill positions like a typical rebuild. We needed starters and depth almost everywhere. 

 

The whole concept about the veterans and the wasted money is hogwash.  Mac HAD to spend money to get this team reasonably competitive.  Last year was a fluke.

But when you look at next year, most of those contracts disappear.

David Harris: Thought we could get two more years, but his play has definitely regressed.  But he has no dead money next year, and saves $6.5 million in a cut.

Nick Mangold: His play is still reasonable, but it won't be long.  He could be restructured, but an outright cut saves $9 million

Brandon Marshall:  With the young depth at this position, he may not be needed, and he is not looking the same anymore.  Another $7.5 million

Darrelle Revis: While this will hurt, it might have to be done.  It will cost $8 million in dead money, but save $7 million as well.

Breno Giacomini:  Enough said.  $4.5 million

Sheldon Richardson: He can be cut with no dead money, but he might make interesting trade bait, especially with Watts going down.  With a contract that has no dead money, if we traded him we could use a pick to shore up another position AND save $8 million next year.

Marcus Gilchrist: While serviceable, it is another position that will need a better upgrade, so $5.3 million can be saved to do just that.

Ryan Clady: If he stays healthy and looks good, his $10 million will become a longer term deal.

Most of the big contracts will be gone.  The roster has some talent now, but it is still about two years away.  The key, as with every franchise, is the QB position.  I hope Mac does not shy away from drafting another QB if the opportunity arises.  If we do not get one, it won't matter if we have Von Miller talent at half the starting positions.

The problem with the whole, this team has talent we will be ready in a bout two years is that in those two years time some of our 'talent' will be gone.  this team does not hit on near enough of it's draft picks.

[joewilly12]

4 games into the season and we are already talking about the draft and next season. 

My god what have I done being a Jets fan.

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

First off, this post by Rex-n-effect deserves to be read here:

The roster was in such an awful state after Idzik left that it's going to be a multi-year project to put together a viable team. You can't buy or draft at every position in one or two years and even if you could not all draft picks reach starter skill level right away. Macc couldn't just sit and spend the minimum until he can draft together a team. Woody wouldn't tolerate it, the fans wouldn't tolerate it and players wouldn't tolerate it. Players wouldn't come here or won't stay if the team is trash--

If you think about how much they had to cut out of the team--even starters--and how much rebuilding has already been done then it's hard to say Macc has done a poor job. You can look at several positions and say there is still work to do. I agree, I think everybody agrees, but that comes back to the inability to take a team from the broken and dysfunctional state of 2013/2014 to a playoff team in just two years. We didn't just need replacements at skill positions like a typical rebuild. We needed starters and depth almost everywhere. 

 

The whole concept about the veterans and the wasted money is hogwash.  Mac HAD to spend money to get this team reasonably competitive.  Last year was a fluke.

But when you look at next year, most of those contracts disappear.

David Harris: Thought we could get two more years, but his play has definitely regressed.  But he has no dead money next year, and saves $6.5 million in a cut.

Nick Mangold: His play is still reasonable, but it won't be long.  He could be restructured, but an outright cut saves $9 million

Brandon Marshall:  With the young depth at this position, he may not be needed, and he is not looking the same anymore.  Another $7.5 million

Darrelle Revis: While this will hurt, it might have to be done.  It will cost $8 million in dead money, but save $7 million as well.

Breno Giacomini:  Enough said.  $4.5 million

Sheldon Richardson: He can be cut with no dead money, but he might make interesting trade bait, especially with Watts going down.  With a contract that has no dead money, if we traded him we could use a pick to shore up another position AND save $8 million next year.

Marcus Gilchrist: While serviceable, it is another position that will need a better upgrade, so $5.3 million can be saved to do just that.

Ryan Clady: If he stays healthy and looks good, his $10 million will become a longer term deal.

Most of the big contracts will be gone.  The roster has some talent now, but it is still about two years away.  The key, as with every franchise, is the QB position.  I hope Mac does not shy away from drafting another QB if the opportunity arises.  If we do not get one, it won't matter if we have Von Miller talent at half the starting positions.

Wow, so all we need to do is replace 8 starters, and we're golden? LETS GO BIG MACC

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

The problem with the whole, this team has talent we will be ready in a bout two years is that in those two years time some of our 'talent' will be gone.  this team does not hit on near enough of it's draft picks.

That's changing. We've hit on almost the same amount of draft picks the last couple of years than in the Rex years

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Wow, so all we need to do is replace 8 starters, and we're golden? LETS GO BIG MACC

Burris, Anderson/Peake, Simon.

Down to 5

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's changing. We've hit on almost the same amount of draft picks the last couple of years than in the Rex years

Sadly we have cut more #1 draft picks than are paying dividends for us. 

Cant we hire an independent firm to do the draft for us the NY Jets obviously dont understand the draft. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Sadly we have cut more #1 draft picks than are paying dividends for us. 

Cant we hire an independent firm to do the draft for us the NY Jets obviously dont understand the draft. 

We did Joewilly.  It was Casserly when Woody used him to hire Mac.  We have to play the wait game.  It is another year until you can judge his 2015 draft.  The defensive picks are looking good.  Harrison was a wiff, and we are still in wait-and-see mode with Smith.  The key is Petty.

 

[southparkcpa]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's changing. We've hit on almost the same amount of draft picks the last couple of years than in the Rex years

2 years of drafts under Mac and we have Williams playing well.  Top teams in the NFL dont have 1 player performing well in 2 drafts.

In 20 years I have yet to see us develop a late round pick to a really good player.  Chrebet and then im drawing a blank.  Im sure they are out there but 

this team is cursed.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

2 years of drafts under Mac and we have Williams playing well.  Top teams in the NFL dont have 1 player performing well in 2 drafts.

In 20 years I have yet to see us develop a late round pick to a really good player.  Chrebet and then im drawing a blank.  Im sure they are out there but 

this team is cursed.

Edwards, Peake

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Edwards, Peake

Really?  4 games and in your mind they are developed?  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Really?  4 games and in your mind they are developed?  

Edwards definitely is. Peake played pretty well for his first game. If a Seventh round pick is mkaing plays on the field, it is already a success.

[PepPep]

While this is an interesting look into some of the player contracts, things will change drastically by the time the season ends. 

Macc did a pretty good job in NOT committing big money to players that may be regressing.   

Even Revis, while cutting him will cost 8mil in dead money, if we hold on to him for an extra season, that 8mil will drop to about 1.7mil. 

I'm not sure why you would cut Richardson. If anything, you just hold on to him, maybe even franchise him until his contract is up. Which happens to be the same year you can cut Revis with only a 1.7mil cap hit. He's a very talented player. For now you wait and see. He may be worth the investment, especially if Hack develops and there is no need to invest big money in a QB.   

But this season is not over. The Jets are 1-3 and I thought it likely that they would be in this position before the season started. By week three (when they were getting ready to play the Chiefs) I started thinking maybe they can go on a run against these 'powerhouse' teams that did not look so tough after all. But it looks like those teams did what they had to do to win while the Jets underachieved. So, now they are 1-3 with 2 more tough games before they get a break in the schedule. Losing both will probably make the playoffs a pipe dream. Winning one of the two will still give them life. So it's 2 more weeks (Pitt and AZ) and we go from there. I DO think if Fitz loses both games and thrown up stnkers doing so, there will be a QB change. Probably Geno. 

[JiFtheOracle]

I think people are over exaggerating the state of the roster.

The good news is, the old slow dudes are all expendable next season.  And when you cut them, you're not losing a significant drop in production because Harris and Reivs are worthless as is.  It actually might lead to seeing some actual youth and speed for once and maybe even improvement.  And it might be the only way our stubborn blockhead of a coach gives the kids a try at anything.  So those might be blessing in disguise.

The rest of the roster relies completely on how the draft picks do; Williams and Lee look the part (you can argue the merits of the Lee pick but he looks good).  They're getting some unexpected lift from guys like Winters and Qvale and Ijalana have looked good.  Which is huge for the future of the OL.  WR looks fine.  If Jenkins, Peake, Burris, Shell and throw another name in there from this year or last...and it's not as bleak of an outlook as some are leading on.  There is something to build on but it's going to take some big hits next draft.

 

 

[southparkcpa]

11 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Edwards definitely is. Peake played pretty well for his first game. If a Seventh round pick is mkaing plays on the field, it is already a success.

Then in your view Mark Sanchez was developed.  The league disagrees.  I view developed as 2-3 years in a row of solid play.

[Matt39]

So who plays Quarterback?

[derp]

20 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Burris, Anderson/Peake, Simon.

Down to 5

Lee kind of plays a different role but I think with Lee/Henderson you functionally have two starting ILB's even with Harris gone. And they'll be in nickel a bunch anyway. Think Sheldon/Mo/Leo with Jenkins/Mauldin/Lee at LB and 5 DB's is functionally a base look. The secondary is the real issue IMO. Although if the team is awful and ends up high in the draft and BPA is a pass rusher I don't think you pass for Jenkins/Mauldin.

Not like Giacomini needs to be replaced either. Right now Ijalana and Qvale are fine. Looks like Ijalana isn't signed past this year but Qvale is.

Not all of these guys will be axed either. I think Harris is out the door and Giacomini as well. Maybe one or two of the others and some restructuring. Richardson I see playing out kind of like Wilkerson - but hopefully the FO won't publicly put him on the block this time. Let teams come to you.

Not sure what cap space for the sake of cap space buys you though. This is still a team without a QB. Some nice depth building some places but a lot of other weaknesses. Continue to build through the draft and re-sign the guys you want to keep around. Building through FA is fools gold. Maybe sign a functional corner or something but I see no need to go crazy.

I'm not sure there's anyone major they need to re-sign this offseason though I'm almost certainly missing someone. Unless there's savings you can roll over to next year I'd continue rebuilding at a bit of a slow pace - focus on OL/secondary this offseason but obviously always keep an eye out for a QB and I don't think the Jets are good enough anywhere aside from DL to ignore a tremendous value at any position (unless Sheldon gets moved - in which case they're not good enough anywhere to ignore a tremendous value). 

[kevinc855]

Talking about 2017 in Week 4 is such a Jets fan thing to do. Pathetic fanbase we have

[Adoni Beast]

I'm not giving up on Bowles yet, but I am starting to worry. This team has talent, just not enough to compete with the top teams. 

This was always a rebuild after Idzik. The team had NOTHING. Whatever moved were made last and this year were to stay competitive while rebuidling. It is what it is, we gave it a shot last year and failed. We all hoped to improve but we're just not there yet. Lets see what kind of team Mac Daddy and Bowles have for us in 2017/2018.

We're gonna have a lot of cap space and a lot of aging guys will be gone next year or restructured. 

Petty will compete for #1 with FA QB they bring in, cause clearly Fitz is gone. Then we got from there. 

[munchmemory]

Just now, Adoni Beast said:

I'm not giving up on Bowles yet, but I am starting to worry. This team has talent, just not enough to compete with the top teams. 

This was always a rebuild after Idzik. The team had NOTHING. Whatever moved were made last and this year were to stay competitive while rebuidling. It is what it is, we gave it a shot last year and failed. We all hoped to improve but we're just not there yet. Lets see what kind of team Mac Daddy and Bowles have for us in 2017/2018.

We're gonna have a lot of cap space and a lot of aging guys will be gone next year or restructured. 

Petty will compete for #1 with FA QB they bring in, cause clearly Fitz is gone. Then we got from there. 

That's what many of us were saying/hoping after last season.  That's why I think Mcc choked.  Also, remember how our team kept Brunell around when clearly his QB skills were totally depleted?

[Adoni Beast]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

That's what many of us were saying/hoping after last season.  That's why I think Mcc choked.  Also, remember how our team kept Brunell around when clearly his QB skills were totally depleted?

Thats one of the biggest signs that Rex was garbage. He was still winning then, so it seemed like it wasn't a big deal. But that was a red flag.

I don't think Mac and Bowles choked, because I'm not sure Petty was/is ready to start and win this year. But since the season is over they should start him to get him reps and experience.

[FidelioJet]

I don't buy it...This team has enough talent to win now with a quality QB.

The GM, coach and ownership are not looking at this as a rebuild or Fitz wouldn't be here - at least no more than most other teams.  Virtually every NFL team, is trying to compete and rebuild at the same time.  In this league with so much turnover you have no choice but to do both at the same time.  The Jets are no different in that regard.

This is almost entirely about the QB -  the teams that are CONSISTENTLY good are the ones with the good QB's - who stabilize a franchise year in and year out.  Blame whoever you want but it's all about the QB.

 

 

[Beerfish]

[peebag]

16 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Talking about 2017 in Week 4 is such a Jets fan thing to do. Pathetic fanbase we have

Really?  You're blaming the fanbase?  FU!

[Jets_Win]

16 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Talking about 2017 in Week 4 is such a Jets fan thing to do. Pathetic fanbase we have

Why are you on a Jets fanbase forum then?

[ScarletKnight89]

The team should hold onto Marshall and Mangold. Marshall can still play and Mangold is still quality, buildup the O-Line around Mangold before eventually finding his replacement.

 

There is no reason to get rid of Marshall. He still helps take a lot of pressure off of the QB. He’d be a young QB’s best friend along with Decker. Those two have to be kept while we continue to develop young guys behind them. Jalin Marshall, and Robbie Anderson clearly aren’t ready to contribute in a major way yet and both might be no better than good number 3’s for all we know. Devin Smith is still a wild card but who knows at this point.

 

I’d keep Revis to for the same reason I’d keep Marshall. I think he can still play at a more than acceptable level. I could understand why people would want him cut though.

 

Everything else I pretty much agree with.

[CaliforniaJet]

We will suck again next year, this team is not coached well. Macc's drafts and FA signings suck, maybe next year we will carry 5 sorry QBs and 5 sorry TEs on the roster because we dont know how to manage a team.Maybe he will give FITZ a 20 million deal since we still wont have a QB. 

 

[varjet]

Harris can go.  The Jets have LBs.  Extend Bruce Carter another year.  Where did Taiwan Jones go?

Mangold is not going anywhere, even if expensive.  They need to draft or sign a replacement.  If he plays in 2017, it is his last year.

If Clady is healthy he should be extended.

The Jets needs to sign or draft a no 1 corner.  It ain't Revis anymore.  Revis is still a good number 2, if he stays healthy.  What do they cost?  Didn't we pay Cromartie $ 8mm last year?  Revis can also replace Gilcrist, but they we need 2 CBs.

[drdetroit]

Tank for Deshaun Watson and/or sign Glennon

 

 

Of course this stupid franchise will do neither

[drdetroit]

4 minutes ago, varjet said:

Harris can go.  The Jets have LBs.  Extend Bruce Carter another year.  Where did Taiwan Jones go?

Mangold is not going anywhere, even if expensive.  They need to draft or sign a replacement.  If he plays in 2017, it is his last year.

If Clady is healthy he should be extended.

The Jets needs to sign or draft a no 1 corner.  It ain't Revis anymore.  Revis is still a good number 2, if he stays healthy.  What do they cost?  Didn't we pay Cromartie $ 8mm last year?  Revis can also replace Gilcrist, but they we need 2 CBs.

Revis should move to FS

 

I actually like Justin Burris and think he can become an elite Cb

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Revis should move to FS

 

I actually like Justin Burris and think he can become an elite Cb

Agree cut Gilchrist he sucks make the move here and now. 

[drdetroit]

49 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

So who plays Quarterback?

Watson or Glennon

 

Or get both

 

No more bs 

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Agree cut Gilchrist he sucks make the move here and now. 

Gilchrist needs to go.  I'd cut Pryor to but it's too much to replace

 

 

 

[drdetroit]

We're not getting rid of Marshall