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Will you actually develop respect for Woody if...

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7 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

I'm surprised by how many people are Ok with Bowles coming back next year. I think he is toast after this year, especially if this team continues to look like hot garbage. I've seen enough of Bowles quite frankly. He shows zero emotion and often looks like a deer in headlights. His team looks unprepared and unmotivated. His defense is dreadful. His in game management and decisions are abysmal. His inability to make adjustments is quite apparent, highlighted by the fact that the jets are outscored by a huge margin in the third quarter. It seems to me that other teams and coaches are doing what he is unable to do. I don't have to see any more of this guy. Bowles is clueless and way over his head. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well guess what, it's a f'cking duck!!

Do you really think it's fair to grade a coach after 21 games? Do you really think the Jets are a talented and deep team?

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11 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

lol why can't it be both ? He is back already, no need to use the IR. They want him ahead of hackenberg. They will use petty if geno isn't doing well and/or jets continue to lose. Toward the end of the yr, when it's officially garbage time.. much different then having to rely on petty early when jets are trying to win. Even now they still don't want to quit until we are " officially eliminated " from playoffs.. 

Because he's either in need of major development this season or he isn't in need of major development this season. He can't be in major need of development AND they're willing to throw him out there when he's unready/unprepared for the opportunity. I mean, they could put him out there in that case, but he wouldn't get much out of it and we wouldn't learn much about him. It would be total mulligan playing time.

Hackenberg is a non-entity. Just pretend he's IR'd but he eats up a roster spot. That's how the team is treating his presence.

If they are still holding out hopes for the playoffs then they're engaging in personal job preservation not acting in the best interests of the franchise. There are no playoffs. This team stinks. At best they'll make the final numbers finish with a more respectable record than their lone win, but it'll come against trash teams with possibly one upset. Not enough to get us there. 

If we had a handful of key injuries over these first 6 weeks, and guys are just now starting to return, then there might be some reason for hope. This is hardly the case. 

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12 minutes ago, RSJ said:

Do you really think it's fair to grade a coach after 21 games? Do you really think the Jets are a talented and deep team?

When the mistakes are this ridiculous? I can justify it.

There are no classes for him to take in the offseason whereby he learns things like why, down 2 scores with half the 4th quarter gone, you don't punt on 4th & 2 from midfield when your defense has barely gotten off the field all game.

These situations come up infrequently enough that you don't learn this over time so much as you just have to know what to do by thinking it through -- and think it through before the offense even runs the 3rd down play.

I think he's in over his head and will never be a good NFL HC:  a true asset to his team that can outsmart the games better coaches and players. The best reason to keep him on, to paraphrase @Bugg is they don't have anyone better in mind yet. No sense in making a change for the sake of making a change, because the next guy can't be fired as quickly himself if we let Bowles go already. The only thing worse than the mistake of hiring Bowles is to make the same mistake again 2 years later.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

When the mistakes are this ridiculous? I can justify it.

There are no classes for him to take in the offseason whereby he learns things like why, down 2 scores with half the 4th quarter gone, you don't punt on 4th & 2 from midfield when your defense has barely gotten off the field all game.

These situations come up infrequently enough that you don't learn this over time so much as you just have to know what to do by thinking it through -- and think it through before the offense even runs the 3rd down play.

I think he's in over his head and will never be a good NFL HC:  a true asset to his team that can outsmart the games better coaches and players. The best reason to keep him on, to paraphrase @Bugg is they don't have anyone better in mind yet. No sense in making a change for the sake of making a change, because the next guy can't be fired as quickly himself if we let Bowles go already. The only thing worse than the mistake of hiring Bowles is to make the same mistake again 2 years later.

What are you even talking about? lol Many, many, many great coaches struggled until they got it together. Including, a few that had their first crack with the Jets and then went on to win Super Bowls. Were you too you to remember the fake spike game and the losing streak that followed? You are rushing to judgment. This teams roster still sucks.

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2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Ok so Geno is temporarily the Jets starting Qb. It's really up to him to play well and keep the job. No excuses. If he does it's a career boost and he has a job somewhere next year. Maybe here. I'm ok with that. But if he's bad I think the Jets will release him before December. But I give him at least two starts. I do not give him the rest of the season unless he plays well. This isn't a try out for him or pre-season. It's regular season and if you don't play well like Fitz you get benched or cut. My prediction: Fitz is starting again in 2 weeks and if so plays better. But he's not back next year. If he wants to continue his career he has to sign somewhere as a backup. Just like Geno.

Lol no man.. fitz is done here.. Bowles openly admitted that..geno will get more than 2 games.. They might as well cut fitz. Unless geno goes down with an injury this week or next, it will be petty next up.. No more 2017 auditions for fitz..

"Bowles said that, even without an injury to Smith, he could turn back to Fitzpatrick this season. But it is highly unlikely that'll happen.

If the Jets continue to lose and Smith stinks, they surely will take a look at Petty — once they are out of playoff contention, but probably not before then". 

 

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2 hours ago, RevisIsland610 said:

I'm surprised by how many people are Ok with Bowles coming back next year. I think he is toast after this year, especially if this team continues to look like hot garbage. I've seen enough of Bowles quite frankly. He shows zero emotion and often looks like a deer in headlights. His team looks unprepared and unmotivated. His defense is dreadful. His in game management and decisions are abysmal. His inability to make adjustments is quite apparent, highlighted by the fact that the jets are outscored by a huge margin in the third quarter. It seems to me that other teams and coaches are doing what he is unable to do. I don't have to see any more of this guy. Bowles is clueless and way over his head. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well guess what, it's a f'cking duck!!

Spot on, if we give him a 3rd year we are just stupid.

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The Jets had zero foundation and very fee players in their prime after 2014. Everything was done as patchwork to stay remotely competitve while we rebuild for 4-5 years.

Its not like Quinn went to ATL and had a franchise QB and a set offense so he could tinker with the D. Different circumstance.

Rex went to a Buffalo team loaded with talent.

When John Harbaugh went to Baltimore that whole team was basically in place. They drafted Flacco that same year and I consider Harbaugh an elite coach, but the point is most of the team was in place.

The list goes on. Our roster was/is early 90's late 80's Bucs bad, and it took Tony Dungy 4/5 years to build that team into a contender, before Gruden came in and finishes the job.

Pete Carroll had back to back 7-9 seasons when he came to Seattle. It takes time to build a real winner. 

I'd only be ok with firing Bowles if some unexpected coach got fired, left, or comes out of retirement like one of the Harbaughs, Sean Payton, Holmgren, Gruden, etc. which won't happen so lets the gm and coach build a team their way and not lose sight of that when we sign for or trade aging vets just to field a team. 

We have to be more competitive this year and next though. 2-14 which we might actually be this year the way things are, and 3-13 next year would be grounds for a firing. 

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9 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well, he was last year. And chances are he will be again this year. That's why for a guy with his resume you don't give him a multi-year deal. When you have an offense that clicks like it did last season you don't start playing games for a million or two with the player the team wanted back as starting Qb. It can screw things up and it very well might have. btw if we have plenty of depth why terrible play esp in the secondary. And that's the area where Mac spent so much money.  And where's the depth on the O-line. 

I think the point that's missed here is that Maccagnan inherited a train wreck, started a 5 year rebuild, and along the way provided an entertaining 10 win season as a bonus.  He patched together a secondary, picked the right journeyman quarterback, and with a cupcake schedule we had some faux success.

As we now know, if we had a challenging schedule last year, we'd have been 5-11 and this year's expectation of 7-9 would have been both realistic and more reflective of what a work-in-progress we are.  All the posters going nuclear are the ones who thought last year's 10 win season was real and that Ryan Fitzpatrick would improve after 11 seasons of failure.  The question of the day isn't "what's wrong with the Jets?" it's "why do we have such crazy fans?"

SAR I

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

When the mistakes are this ridiculous? I can justify it.

There are no classes for him to take in the offseason whereby he learns things like why, down 2 scores with half the 4th quarter gone, you don't punt on 4th & 2 from midfield when your defense has barely gotten off the field all game.

These situations come up infrequently enough that you don't learn this over time so much as you just have to know what to do by thinking it through -- and think it through before the offense even runs the 3rd down play.

I think he's in over his head and will never be a good NFL HC:  a true asset to his team that can outsmart the games better coaches and players. The best reason to keep him on, to paraphrase they don't have anyone better in mind yet. No sense in making a change for the sake of making a change, because the next guy can't be fired as quickly himself if we let Bowles go already. The only thing worse than the mistake of hiring Bowles is to make the same mistake again 2 years later.

I agree completely.  Bowles will never be a good NFL head coach.

If there's one thing I've learned as a Jets fan it's that after 2 years you can see 100% of what a head coach is going to be.  If they make mistakes early, the mistakes stay.  If they run an undisciplined ship, the lack of discipline stays.  Dumb timeouts, bad clock management, punting at the wrong time, going for 2 at the wrong time, these things are ingrained in their character, it's how they've been coaching since they were 25 years old, there is nothing that will change them.

Al Groh, Herman Edwards, Eric Mangini, Rex Ryan, Todd Bowles, they are all flawed, they never do well in their second jobs, they vanish because they were never very good.  Our next head coach needs to be someone who had decent success once and is strong with the fundamentals, like the Giants did twice with Dan Reeves and Tom Coughlin.

SAR I

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9 hours ago, Powpow said:

Like I said, and what so many of you don't get....Geno was nothing more than a cheap transition to Mac's choice. Fitz, in all reality, was just viewed as a mentor to Petty NOT Geno. Upon signing, Playing Geno was the plan by Mac for some stupid reason since he just couldn't find anything better. Fitz was never even supposed to play, except only if Geno sh*t the bed. Instead, Genope got knocked out in more ways than one and lost the job which he initially won by default. And now once again he starts, by default. 

Exactly.

Fitzpatrick was brought here as a backup.  Geno was the starter.  Petty and Hackenberg were prospects taken where we could considering our lack of picks and/or draft position.  That was a good plan.

Geno lost the starting job for $600.  Fitzpatrick had success against a weak schedule.  Jets fans got used to winning again.  Expectations were high for the next season.  And then we saw our schedule.  And then our defense took massive steps back.  And then we got hit with a rash of injuries.  And then we couldn't run.  And then we couldn't pass.  And then we went 1-5.

I can't find a flaw in Maccagnan's quarterback strategy.  In 2015 he picked the right backup and drafted a kid.  In 2016 he re-signed the backup and drafted another kid.  If the problem with this team were at quarterback and we were some win-now team I'd have a right to be upset.  But we are not a win-now team, the quarterback to take us to the promised land has yet to take a snap, and we are in the middle of a 5 year rebuild with significant non-quarterback issues to address.

SAR I

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8 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We had to sign someone.. We couldn't go into the season with 1 of the two unprepared kids as the #2.

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Why not?

The schedule was simply too difficult to imagine Bryce Petty under center after the 5-1 finish Ryan Fitzpatrick engineered.

This is where sequencing matters.  Like the Bills who had their easy games early and could build some momentum after a challenging start.  5 road games in the first 6 weeks.  5 playoff teams in the first 6 weeks.  The raw prospect from Baylor or the veteran who just ran the gauntlet to get you to 10 wins?  The Jets saw this schedule in April, it most certainly factored into their decision making when it came down to re-signing Fitzpatrick or giving the reins to a youngster.

SAR I

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12 hours ago, drdetroit said:

He pulls the trigger and fires Bowles after this season?  

Not at all. I would think he was turning us into the Browns. 

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31 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The schedule was simply too difficult to imagine Bryce Petty under center after the 5-1 finish Ryan Fitzpatrick engineered.

This is where sequencing matters.  Like the Bills who had their easy games early and could build some momentum after a challenging start.  5 road games in the first 6 weeks.  5 playoff teams in the first 6 weeks.  The raw prospect from Baylor or the veteran who just ran the gauntlet to get you to 10 wins?  The Jets saw this schedule in April, it most certainly factored into their decision making when it came down to re-signing Fitzpatrick or giving the reins to a youngster.

SAR I

You mean they weren't prepared to go with petty as the #2. Geno was going to be the starter if fitz wasn't signed, despite what the geno haters believe in their little world. If fitz wasn't signed jets still pick up a vet. This was the plan all along. Mac knew fitz and geno were both equally bad. If geno was a FA and fitz was signed, they still would have picked a NFL experienced qb for the #2.  Petty was the #3 no matter what. Hackenberg the #4. Bowles has pretty much said hackenberg will not see the field this yr. 

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No. Because it would mean that he has been involved in  another failed coaching expedition.  I have never had much respect for Woody, a silver spoon kid.  I do not begrudge him his money. He just has never done anything in sports to command my respect.

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No. Because it would mean that he has been involved in  another failed coaching expedition.  I have never had much respect for Woody, a silver spoon kid.  I do not begrudge him his money. He just has never done anything in sports to command my respect.

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6 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol no man.. fitz is done here.. Bowles openly admitted that..geno will get more than 2 games.. They might as well cut fitz. Unless geno goes down with an injury this week or next, it will be petty next up.. No more 2017 auditions for fitz..

"Bowles said that, even without an injury to Smith, he could turn back to Fitzpatrick this season. But it is highly unlikely that'll happen.

If the Jets continue to lose and Smith stinks, they surely will take a look at Petty — once they are out of playoff contention, but probably not before then". 

 

It would make no sense to cut Fitz. And they have to pay his salary anyways. It would make sense to trade him but no market for that salary after his poor performances. I don't know if the Jets could trade Fitz and pick up a substantial amount of that remaining money. Like split it with the team they would deal him to. There could be a market then esp with Qbs going down like flies. If Geno plays well he has the job at least for this season. But if he doesn't Fitz is next man up. I can't see Bowles going with Geno if he lays an egg over the next two games. He is not an established Qb a guy you would give multiple games to. And I do believe Fitz can play better than this. He wasn't terrible in every game including last week. But when you can't move the offense you have to try something different.  So for Geno fans: stop rooting for Geno over the team. You try out in pre-season not regular season. If the season is a total wash in Dec. you might give Petty and Hack some starts. Esp. Petty. 

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8 hours ago, RSJ said:

What are you even talking about? lol Many, many, many great coaches struggled until they got it together. Including, a few that had their first crack with the Jets and then went on to win Super Bowls. Were you too you to remember the fake spike game and the losing streak that followed? You are rushing to judgment. This teams roster still sucks.

There's a difference between the team struggling and the coach struggling, and I think you're conflating the two. No doubt about the roster not being so great, but frankly this roster is not even as bad as it's performing. Unless you truly believe this is even near their capabilities. 

Can you name anything Bowles seems to do particularly well, and I'm not talking about by perception from before he came here?

He knows nothing about the offense - amazingly, even less than his predecessor - and only in that past week has he even bothered to attend his first offensive meeting other than Gailey telling him the gameplan briefly on Tuesdays (and even stupidly admitted as much publicly). Defense is his thing and he appears to be just flinging mud against a wall when I see Sheldon Richardson lining up where a man 50+ lbs lighter belongs, trying to cover a shifty back in the flat (and getting beaten with ease, as anyone should expect). Perhaps it's just optics but he seems to be listening more than directing during the games. And his main sub-area of expertise - the secondary - is underperforming worse than any other unit on the team when one accounts for the talent level. 

Fake spike? What does that tell you? It tells me it was a trick play and the team embarrassingly got caught with its pants down on one play. But simply, Carroll was not ready to be an NFL head coach. Everything got worse when he was promoted, including his beloved defense (and I might add he was a coordinator for 5 years before his promotion, which is twice the time Bowles spent running half a team). He then went back to two successful years as a DC again before inheriting the AFC champion Patriots -- and then slowly ran them into the ground as well. Another difference is he was a good decade younger than Bowles, with a decade less experience in any coaching capacities (and Bowles got to see a lot more over that time, both good and bad), on top of not being a player for a decade under a HOF HC himself before that. Point being, Bowles ought to know more than he does already.

You want to wait another 10-15 years to find out if Todd Bowles is more '95 Kotite or more '94 Carroll? I don't. The Jets were right to fire Carroll after '94 and the Patriots were right to fire him 5 years later. But even then, no one doubted he was one of the more creative defensive coordinators in the game. There is a difference between that and merely having success with a loaded roster (especially in the secondary) that allowed him to repeatedly blitz with impunity. Look at him now, though. Look at how the Eagles did when they promoted him to DC over Castillo mid season, and how the D actually got even worse, where everyone was hanging 30 points on them even in blowouts where opponents stopped trying.

The errors he is making are more obvious football ones. They are simply poor judgment calls one doesn't even need coaching experience to get right.  If the issues were limited to him being a pushover running this decade's Club Ted (Club Todd) that is a far easier fix because it's one of appearance.

But even that, this team seems to be lacking direction and priorities. Why would his own QB say the reason he could/should still be the starter is basicallly because he's still popular? Where would a player even get the idea that this is a reason to keep him on the field as the league's worst QB? Think about your best NFL HCs and imagine his just-demoted QB saying something this asinine to the media. Or imagine his backup QB getting away with ridiculous - if not undermining - tweets and facial expressions and standing/moping around by himself during games, clearly concerned only about #1, and then get immediately rewarded with a promotion to starter. 

I can appreciate Bowles's calm demeanor and genuinely good character - the man is impossibly, if not lovably, nice - and how he seemed like just what the team needed after firing his boorish predecessor. I wish all of my neighbors were Todd Bowles clones. That said, this job is not for him. He will never be great at it and probably never particularly good either. Not any time in the near future, anyhow. He has too many things to fix with himself as a HC before I can have confidence in him fixing others at the same time. 

If you get through this I can make more. ;) 

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14 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 


Yea, a one point favorite at home.

That's awesome.

 

 

Bottom line is you were proven wrong and I was proven right

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Fitz deserves to be benched. If Geno does good than ok. But there's ten games left and imo Fitz will play in games this season 


And when will Petty and Hack get an opportunity?

2021?



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You can't keep hiring first time head coaches, and then be shocked that they make mistakes. 

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14 hours ago, Powpow said:

Les Miles? Fire Mac Fire Bowles. And while you're at it, fire the moron who recommended them in the first place. Have Miles run the organization. Make him an offer he can't refuse. 

Les Miles would never be successful as an NFL head coach. Trust me I'm a huge LSU fan and I've watched him water down and squander tons of offensive talent over the years. If you thought any of our coaches were conservative on O multiply this by 20 and this is what Miles would bring.

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11 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Les Miles would never be successful as an NFL head coach. Trust me I'm a huge LSU fan and I've watched him water down and squander tons of offensive talent over the years. If you thought any of our coaches were conservative on O multiply this by 20 and this is what Miles would bring.

😮

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There's a difference between the team struggling and the coach struggling, and I think you're conflating the two. No doubt about the roster not being so great, but frankly this roster is not even as bad as it's performing. Unless you truly believe this is even near their capabilities. 

Can you name anything Bowles seems to do particularly well, and I'm not talking about by perception from before he came here?

He knows nothing about the offense - amazingly, even less than his predecessor - and only in that past week has he even bothered to attend his first offensive meeting other than Gailey telling him the gameplan briefly on Tuesdays (and even stupidly admitted as much publicly). Defense is his thing and he appears to be just flinging mud against a wall when I see Sheldon Richardson lining up where a man 50+ lbs lighter belongs, trying to cover a shifty back in the flat (and getting beaten with ease, as anyone should expect). Perhaps it's just optics but he seems to be listening more than directing during the games. And his main sub-area of expertise - the secondary - is underperforming worse than any other unit on the team when one accounts for the talent level. 

Fake spike? What does that tell you? It tells me it was a trick play and the team embarrassingly got caught with its pants down on one play. But simply, Carroll was not ready to be an NFL head coach. Everything got worse when he was promoted, including his beloved defense (and I might add he was a coordinator for 5 years before his promotion, which is twice the time Bowles spent running half a team). He then went back to two successful years as a DC again before inheriting the AFC champion Patriots -- and then slowly ran them into the ground as well. Another difference is he was a good decade younger than Bowles, with a decade less experience in any coaching capacities (and Bowles got to see a lot more over that time, both good and bad), on top of not being a player for a decade under a HOF HC himself before that. Point being, Bowles ought to know more than he does already.

You want to wait another 10-15 years to find out if Todd Bowles is more '95 Kotite or more '94 Carroll? I don't. The Jets were right to fire Carroll after '94 and the Patriots were right to fire him 5 years later. But even then, no one doubted he was one of the more creative defensive coordinators in the game. There is a difference between that and merely having success with a loaded roster (especially in the secondary) that allowed him to repeatedly blitz with impunity. Look at him now, though. Look at how the Eagles did when they promoted him to DC over Castillo mid season, and how the D actually got even worse, where everyone was hanging 30 points on them even in blowouts where opponents stopped trying.

The errors he is making are more obvious football ones. They are simply poor judgment calls one doesn't even need coaching experience to get right.  If the issues were limited to him being a pushover running this decade's Club Ted (Club Todd) that is a far easier fix because it's one of appearance.

But even that, this team seems to be lacking direction and priorities. Why would his own QB say the reason he could/should still be the starter is basicallly because he's still popular? Where would a player even get the idea that this is a reason to keep him on the field as the league's worst QB? Think about your best NFL HCs and imagine his just-demoted QB saying something this asinine to the media. Or imagine his backup QB getting away with ridiculous - if not undermining - tweets and facial expressions and standing/moping around by himself during games, clearly concerned only about #1, and then get immediately rewarded with a promotion to starter. 

I can appreciate Bowles's calm demeanor and genuinely good character - the man is impossibly, if not lovably, nice - and how he seemed like just what the team needed after firing his boorish predecessor. I wish all of my neighbors were Todd Bowles clones. That said, this job is not for him. He will never be great at it and probably never particularly good either. Not any time in the near future, anyhow. He has too many things to fix with himself as a HC before I can have confidence in him fixing others at the same time. 

If you get through this I can make more. ;) 

Carroll coached terrible that year and lost the team after being out coached. He then spent 3 years in NE before he went to Seattle. Carroll isn't the only example I pointed out if you read my post there have been many, many examples of coaches starting out slow or needing some time to figure things out. No one said 10-15 years - that's ridiculous. Bowles took over a bad team with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his best quarterback option. He deserves a little time. The rest of this year and next year is the least he deserves. Lets see if one of these QB's shows that they can play and have another good draft. Fill in some new free agents and I think we should see an improvement next year. If its the same nonsense then I agree, he should go - but until then its silly to talk about letting him go right now.

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If he did that, I'd find it very very difficult to sit through a Woody Johnson owned team next year. 

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On 10/21/2016 at 11:01 AM, RSJ said:

Carroll coached terrible that year and lost the team after being out coached. He then spent 3 years in NE before he went to Seattle. Carroll isn't the only example I pointed out if you read my post there have been many, many examples of coaches starting out slow or needing some time to figure things out. No one said 10-15 years - that's ridiculous. Bowles took over a bad team with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his best quarterback option. He deserves a little time. The rest of this year and next year is the least he deserves. Lets see if one of these QB's shows that they can play and have another good draft. Fill in some new free agents and I think we should see an improvement next year. If its the same nonsense then I agree, he should go - but until then its silly to talk about letting him go right now.

No, that is a whitewashing of Pete Carroll's career. After getting fired here, he then spent 2 more years as a DC again (successfully). Carroll then spent 3 years in NE and then another decade at USC as a head coach before he went to Seattle. No one said 10-15 years? You brought up Pete Carroll, and 10-15 years is how long it took before Pete Carroll enjoyed this success at the NFL level. 

Bowles did not take over a bad team. Had he taken over the exact team as the one that finished the 2014 season, then he would have taken over a bad team. He also took over under the conditions of playing against the same creampuffs that made Ryan Fitzpatrick look halfway decent.

He has had a little time. The time you see what a coach is, is when he doesn't have such a great team (never mind a really good or great QB). The latter merely masks the former more effectively.

It's silly to let him go right now, but not to talk about it. One doesn't begin talking about it the moment it needs to be done.

Edited by Sperm Edwards

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On 10/21/2016 at 11:10 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

No, that is a whitewashing of Pete Carroll's career. After getting fired here, he then spent 2 more years as a DC again (successfully). Carroll then spent 3 years in NE and then another decade at USC as a head coach before he went to Seattle. No one said 10-15 years? You brought up Pete Carroll, and 10-15 years is how long it took before Pete Carroll enjoyed this success at the NFL level. 

Bowles did not take over a bad team. Had he taken over the exact team as the one that finished the 2014 season, then he would have taken over a bad team. He also took over under the conditions of playing against the same creampuffs that made Ryan Fitzpatrick look halfway decent.

He has had a little time. The time you see what a coach is, is when he doesn't have such a great team (never mind a really good or great QB). The latter merely masks the former more effectively.

It's silly to let him go right now, but not to talk about it. One doesn't begin talking about it the moment it needs to be done.

First off I am talking NFL experience as a HC, not overall experience. I wouldn't count college experience since it's a different kind of coach that generally succeeds there. So you really want me to list all the Super Bowl winning coaches that struggled their first 2-4 years as a NFL HEAD COACH or are you going to look some up and realize that just about all of them have?

Who on this team do you think is so good? Brandon Marshal may be the best player on offense and he has never been to the playoffs. Decker was considered a product of Payton Manning and I kind of feel like its true. Forte is like 100 years old. Carpenter was a disappointment on Seattle. Clady is older and solid - but not great. Enunwa may be the best prospect on the offense along with the rookie WR's that are all UDFA's and developing nicely. 

On Defense, they are an older or unrpoven group. Pryor has yet to be consistent in this league - but still is playing better than he had under Rex. The defense is also a weird mix of talent and not one scheme fit. I think that this has been part of the problem. Trying to find the right scheme for this group. This is why the GM gave them all contracts he can get out of this season. Free agency isn't how you build a Super Bowl winner.

That's what happens when you draft as poorly as the Jets have. It's great to think Denver is trading us a 26 year old Ryan Clady for a 5th round pick - but the reality is he isn't 26 and that's not how it works. Teams dont let go of great free agents or trade them away. The best you can hope for is solid veterans and the occasional hit on a contributor. 

As far as when you can start talking about it goes, you can obviously talk about it all you want - but I think it's silly at this point. It won't make sense until the beginning of next season. By then the draft picks should be developing. Some sort of QB who is at the least solid should emerge, and some of these Vet free agents should be moved to less critical positions or ct all together. The team should start taking the image of the new regime.

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Just now, RSJ said:

First off I am talking NFL experience as a HC, not overall experience. I wouldn't count college experience since it's a different kind of coach that generally succeeds there. So you really want me to list all the Super Bowl winning coaches that struggled their first 2-4 years as a NFL HEAD COACH or are you going to look some up and realize that just about all of them have?

Who on this team do you think is so good? Brandon Marshal may be the best player on offense and he has never been to the playoffs. Decker was considered a product of Payton Manning and I kind of feel like its true. Forte is like 100 years old. Carpenter was a disappointment on Seattle. Clady is older and solid - but not great. Enunwa may be the best prospect on the offense along with the rookie WR's that are all UDFA's and developing nicely. 

On Defense, they are an older or unrpoven group. Pryor has yet to be consistent in this league - but still is playing better than he had under Rex. The defense is also a weird mix of talent and not one scheme fit. I think that this has been part of the problem. Trying to find the right scheme for this group. This is why the GM gave them all contracts he can get out of this season. Free agency isn't how you build a Super Bowl winner.

That's what happens when you draft as poorly as the Jets have. It's great to think Denver is trading us a 26 year old Ryan Clady for a 5th round pick - but the reality is he isn't 26 and that's not how it works. Teams dont let go of great free agents or trade them away. The best you can hope for is solid veterans and the occasional hit on a contributor. 

As far as when you can start talking about it goes, you can obviously talk about it all you want - but I think it's silly at this point. It won't make sense until the beginning of next season. By then the draft picks should be developing. Some sort of QB who is at the least solid should emerge, and some of these Vet free agents should be moved to less critical positions or ct all together. The team should start taking the image of the new regime.

Your idea is that the 9 years of additional head coaching experience Carroll spent at USC did him no good? You can't possibly believe that.

Noting Brandon Marshall never being on a playoff team seems to be inferring Brandon Marshall is some sort of impediment to getting the Jets to the playoffs. Decker was considered a product of Peyton Manning, true, but it turns out that consideration was wrong. He gets open effortlessly, and makes a lot of tough catches that average WRs can't or don't. He's also a huge redzone target with actual talent. These two made Ryan Fitzpatrick (and the coaches) look respectable, and were arguably the best 1-2 WR duo in the NFL when poor Todd Bowles took over. You point to them as though they are handicaps, as though he inherited Stephen Hill and David Nelson.

Pryor was a rookie in 2014. Except for those who were calling for him to be benched/cut already, anyone impartial would typically expect a first round pick starter to improve from year 1 to year 2.

If any QB emerges it will have nothing to do with Todd Bowles, who only last week started even attending meetings with his own offense. 

I appreciate the optimism and desire for him to be good, because he is impossible to dislike personally. But Bowles seems to lack too many things that should already be there by the time he's hired. 

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Your idea is that the 9 years of additional head coaching experience Carroll spent at USC did him no good? You can't possibly believe that.

Noting Brandon Marshall never being on a playoff team seems to be inferring Brandon Marshall is some sort of impediment to getting the Jets to the playoffs. Decker was considered a product of Peyton Manning, true, but it turns out that consideration was wrong. He gets open effortlessly, and makes a lot of tough catches that average WRs can't or don't. He's also a huge redzone target with actual talent. These two made Ryan Fitzpatrick (and the coaches) look respectable, and were arguably the best 1-2 WR duo in the NFL when poor Todd Bowles took over. You point to them as though they are handicaps, as though he inherited Stephen Hill and David Nelson.

Pryor was a rookie in 2014. Except for those who were calling for him to be benched/cut already, anyone impartial would typically expect a first round pick starter to improve from year 1 to year 2.

If any QB emerges it will have nothing to do with Todd Bowles, who only last week started even attending meetings with his own offense. 

I appreciate the optimism and desire for him to be good, because he is impossible to dislike personally. But Bowles seems to lack too many things that should already be there by the time he's hired. 

The thing with Decker is that he is a # 2 receiver, not a #1. That was what was questioned with Decker.

Pryor played well in coverage last year. He blanketed Gronk on several occasions. For some reason, he has regressed this year.

And I wonder how many people wanted Dan Quinn out of Atlanta last year? 

 

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17 hours ago, slats said:

Railing against the Revis contract while simultaneously stumping for Fitz is hilarious to me. 

people don't have to be logical

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5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The thing with Decker is that he is a # 2 receiver, not a #1. That was what was questioned with Decker.

Pryor played well in coverage last year. He blanketed Gronk on several occasions. For some reason, he has regressed this year.

And I wonder how many people wanted Dan Quinn out of Atlanta last year? 

 

What of it with Decker? I'm reading more or less how he was some type of handicap that must be overcome in order to succeed. It's ridiculous.

Pryor "blanketed" Gronk when he had help while both of NE's starting WRs were out of the game with injuries. When we couldn't put more attention Gronk's way he caught 11 passes for over 100 yards. Also in each game he finished with higher than (his) average game's numbers. So there's that. Blanketed, lol.

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Your idea is that the 9 years of additional head coaching experience Carroll spent at USC did him no good? You can't possibly believe that.

Noting Brandon Marshall never being on a playoff team seems to be inferring Brandon Marshall is some sort of impediment to getting the Jets to the playoffs. Decker was considered a product of Peyton Manning, true, but it turns out that consideration was wrong. He gets open effortlessly, and makes a lot of tough catches that average WRs can't or don't. He's also a huge redzone target with actual talent. These two made Ryan Fitzpatrick (and the coaches) look respectable, and were arguably the best 1-2 WR duo in the NFL when poor Todd Bowles took over. You point to them as though they are handicaps, as though he inherited Stephen Hill and David Nelson.

Pryor was a rookie in 2014. Except for those who were calling for him to be benched/cut already, anyone impartial would typically expect a first round pick starter to improve from year 1 to year 2.

If any QB emerges it will have nothing to do with Todd Bowles, who only last week started even attending meetings with his own offense. 

I appreciate the optimism and desire for him to be good, because he is impossible to dislike personally. But Bowles seems to lack too many things that should already be there by the time he's hired. 

 

Ron Rivera, Bill Parcells, Tom Coughlin, Bill Belicheck (Cleveland), all started slow. It's actually harder to find a good head coach that was winning Super Bowls in his second year in his first job, And yes I dont count college. If Saban came back and won in the NFL, I would not consider his time at Alabama the reason.

Brandon Marshall drops some key balls and his ability to improve a locker room or huddle is questionable at best. Its no coincidence that he has never been to the playoffs, even on a younger and better version of the Jets offense just a few short years ago. Decker was good in the slot for sure. He was bad outside, which is why I don't consider them a great "duo" They had great numbers - but they both don't play opposite outside from each other.

Look, I am all on your side next year this time if Bowles is having the same problems. But I highly doubt it will be the case. Mac has been smarter than credited. There are lots of solid vets on this roster that can be renegotiated or let go. Clady can probably be renegotiate and put at RT or Guard. Then they can draft a G or LT. Marshall can be let go for Enunwa. Revis can be renegotiated and moved to FS or used as a #2 CB while they draft or sign another. Those moves plus others like them, another solid draft and finding a solid QB that doesnt turn the ball over and the team should be headed in the right direction. 

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

What of it?

Pryor "blanketed" Gronk when he had help while both of NE's starting WRs were out of the game with injuries. When we couldn't put more attention Gronk's way he caught 11 passes for over 100 yards. Also in each game he finished with higher than (his) average game's numbers. So there's that. Blanketed, lol.

And yet people were calling Pryor here for a Pro Bowl berth.

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