Question for the Board

[Tinstar]

What positions do you folks consider Premium positions on a football team, other than QB  ?

 

[section314]

LT, Edge Rusher, WR, S,C.

[ScarletKnight89]

LT, CB, edge rusher.

We have none of the above.

[jetscanes331]

Everything but OG and RT. An elite player at any other position changes the game.

[Spoot-Face]

Football Research Director

Without that, you'll never get away with cheating.

[section314]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

LT, CB, edge rusher.

We have none of the above.

I was thinking the same thing about my list above.

[Skeet Ulrich]

Blindside protector(RT for lefties, LT for normal folk)

Edge rusher(who we haven't had since Abraham, it's only been a decade)

Elite CB

Basically everything you see taken in the top 10 picks

[Reynolds1029]

No team can play offense without a quality offensive line. Its debateable that the O Line is more important than the QB.

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[DMan77]

LT, C, CB, Edge rusher

And just a tick below is a LB who excels at pass coverage... Take away the short passes in today NFL and you're in good shape.

 

Also speaking of Edge rusher, when did we start calling those guys 'EDGE' instead of DE/OLB? Seems recent...

[RSJ]

C, and NT I think are most important. If your NT commands a double team it opens up everything. On the reverse side, if your center can handle the NT by himself, can pull and can call the blocking it is of huge importance. Also, pressure up the middle eliminates an offenses ability to function at all.

[DetroitRed]

Running backs and WRs are a dime a dozen. Most (WR) are dependent on QB play.    LT, Corner and Edge rusher.  DT can change the defense 

[DMan77]

4 minutes ago, RSJ said:

C, and NT I think are most important. If your NT commands a double team it opens up everything. On the reverse side, if your center can handle the NT by himself, can pull and can call the blocking it is of huge importance. Also, pressure up the middle eliminates an offenses ability to function at all.

Yep, and there's also the leadership angle to think of too, even though that's hard to quantify... But when you have a strong willed and smart C, he keeps the rest of the line in order and working as a team. He directs guys around, and helps point out things that the QB might have missed, like a LB creeping up... He also installs some discipline on the line too and keeps those false starts and such down. 

I mean of course first and foremost you want skill and talent, but it's a big bonus if the guy is a leader. 

[NYJ37/12]

I think we need as many good o lineman as possible. Everything else is window dressing.

[bealeb319]

I think elite players at every position of oline and I know a lot of people will say og and rt are a dime a dozen but having a solid offensive line can make a crappy offense look good.

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[RSJ]

4 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Yep, and there's also the leadership angle to think of too, even though that's hard to quantify... But when you have a strong willed and smart C, he keeps the rest of the line in order and working as a team. He directs guys around, and helps point out things that the QB might have missed, like a LB creeping up... He also installs some discipline on the line too and keeps those false starts and such down. 

I mean of course first and foremost you want skill and talent, but it's a big bonus if the guy is a leader. 

Totally agree. C is easier to identify and find which is why they go lower in the draft than say LT and QB. But you absolutely need a great one or the rest of the positions on the line dont matter. 

I also don't think it can emphasized enough how much losing Snacks this year has impacted the entire defense

[TuscanyTile2]

Punter, place kicker, kick returner, holder, fullback, gunner, key grip.

[JetPotato]

Besides Quarterback, it starts and ends with Front Office and Coach

[Kleckineau]

Linebacker. Esp very small but really fast ones.

[jack48]

LT, edge guy, corner

[phill1c]

The question should be reversed: what AREN'T elite positions?

Imagine you had a playmaker at LB or FS. That would probably make this defense elite.

Imagine an elite TE or OG or WR.

I have to disagree with the notion of an Elite NT. NT generally don't get a lot of pass rush, even the great ones. Mostly, they are run stuffers. And, really, it's a passing league. And the C I've never really seen do a whole lot other than calling signals. Seems like virtually anyone could do that. And we've had two of them in recent memory Mawae and the Mangold and I've thought both of them were really overrated, considering that when the rest of the OL sucked they really didn't compensate for it.

[bitonti]

these days all you need is a franchise Qb and a couple of decent targets and you can win a ton of games. 

 

the Jets fans who talk about drafting LT's and rebuilding the trenches, that's how it used to be.

The way it is now Andrew Luck plus TY Hilton plus Donte Moncrief and you have most of what you need to win games. 

Assuming they stay healthy. Which is true of every team. 

[August]

Pass Rusher and LT

[phill1c]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

these days all you need is a franchise Qb and a couple of decent targets and you can win a ton of games. 

 

the Jets fans who talk about drafting LT's and rebuilding the trenches, that's how it used to be. The way it is now Andrew Luck plus TY Hilton plus Donte Moncrief and you have most of what you need. 

SOJ fans thinking: we can short cut the process and just have one or two guys, surround them with dreck, and we'll be ok. NO, we need a FOUNDATION of good players. because when you have one or two players then they just get hurt cause the OL sucks. Or you lose 37-34 because the defense can't stop anyone. And you don't score any garbage points because you haven't had a kick return for a TD in forever.

[bitonti]

Just now, phill1c said:

SOJ fans thinking: we can short cut the process and just have one or two guys, surround them with dreck, and we'll be ok. NO, we need a FOUNDATION of good players. because when you have one or two players then they just get hurt cause the OL sucks. Or you lose 37-34 because the defense can't stop anyone. And you don't score any garbage points because you haven't had a kick return for a TD in forever.

 

If the Qb can get rid of it in less than 2.5 seconds, it's like the lines aren't even there. 

[phill1c]

Just now, bitonti said:

If the Qb can get rid of it in less than 2.5 seconds, it's like the lines aren't even there. 

Ok, sure...then why bother to have a DL or and edge rusher? Because you absolutely can't always throw it in 2.5 seconds. Sometimes you might want to run routes more than 5 yards. It's like the lines aren't there when you have a quality OL...or a sh!t one.

[Tinstar]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

these days all you need is a franchise Qb and a couple of decent targets and you can win a ton of games. 

 

the Jets fans who talk about drafting LT's and rebuilding the trenches, that's how it used to be.

The way it is now Andrew Luck plus TY Hilton plus Donte Moncrief and you have most of what you need to win games. 

Assuming they stay healthy. Which is true of every team. 

That line of thinking almost cost Andrew Luck his career and more importantly his life last season . I would expect better from a guy who specializes in scouting linemen .

[phill1c]

And, BTW, what the f*ck has Andrew Luck won recently?

Contrast that with NE, which wins even when Golden Douche isn't even playing.

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Ok, sure...then why bother to have a DL or and edge rusher? Because you absolutely can't always throw it in 2.5 seconds. Sometimes you might want to run routes more than 5 yards. It's like the lines aren't there when you have a quality OL...or a sh!t one.

1

Re read my post please, a Qb gets you most of the way there. Not all of the way there. 

To win a championship a team needs good players at every position including Kicker. 

Those other positions are easier to find. 

 

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, phill1c said:

And, BTW, what the f*ck has Andrew Luck won recently?

Contrast that with NE, which wins even when Golden Douche isn't even playing.

 

there are 31 losers every year and 1 winner. The Colts might not be a complete team right now but they are in the mix. A QB gets you in the mix.

 

[bitonti]

14 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

That line of thinking almost cost Andrew Luck his career and more importantly his life last season . I would expect better from a guy who specializes in scouting linemen .

 

Exactly. The more I scout linemen and write articles about lines the more I realize it's a nice to have not a need to have.  

look at the Pats. last year Solder was on IR all year. This year Vollmer is on IR all year. It doesn't matter. Heck even our very own Ryan Clady somehow got a Super Bowl ring while on IR, Peyton was doing work behind Chris Clark.

 

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Re read my post please, a Qb gets you most of the way there. Not all of the way there. 

To win a championship a team needs good players at every position including Kicker. 

Those other positions are easier to find. 

 

Hmmm, I'll compare Andew Luck's vs. Dak Prescott's fortunes. I'll take a team with a well-balanced group of playmakers vs. a team with a 'franchise qb' and virtually nothing else anytime. This 'franchise qb' hero worship seems based solely on the glory days of the NFL, before the salary cap. You can win with a well-balanced offense with a 'meh' qb. You don't need a first-rounder. You just need someone better than Fitzpatrick.

[Tinstar]

All fine answers with the exception of Bit who disappointed me with his answer . IMO, after QB , the next premium position player is Edge Rusher . I  chose that term because edge rusher can be OLBers in the 34 or DEs in the 43 . After that , I go after a LT and then either an offensive Center or NT.  The LT protects the blindside of the QB and should be equally as effective in run blocking as pass blocking . The Center assist the QB with line protections and should be able to battle a NT . The NT should be capable of commanding a double team and clogging the middle of the defense . If you can't stop the run, what good are edge rushers .  The only reason I place Edge rusher ahead of NT is the simple fact that the NFL has become a pass 1st league . The next position is the Mike LB and or SS .  Your mike Line backer has  to be capable of covering and must be a solid tackler and leader of the defense . The SS must have the same characteristics as the Mike linebacker . Those are my Premium positions

QB , Edge Rusher, LT, OC, NT, middle Linebacker and strong Safety .

Now let's examine how many of these positions the Jets have covered .

Ah, never mind         

[bitonti]

Just now, phill1c said:

Hmmm, I'll compare Andew Luck's vs. Dak Prescott's fortunes. I'll take a team with a well-balanced group of playmakers vs. a team with a 'franchise qb' and virtually nothing else anytime. This 'franchise qb' hero worship seems based solely on the glory days of the NFL, before the salary cap. You can win with a well-balanced offense with a 'meh' qb. You don't need a first-rounder. You just need someone better than Fitzpatrick.

5

The franchise QB "hero worship" is based on the fact that every year they change the rules to make the QB more important and the fantasy points more plentiful.

Yes many years ago Parcells could take the air out of the ball and run Joe Morris into the ground. Those days are long gone.

If Dak Prescott needs that top OL to be a good player then he's no better than 2009 Sanchez. I think he's legit regardless of his line.  

[phill1c]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there are 31 losers every year and 1 winner. The Colts might not be a complete team right now but they are in the mix. A QB gets you in the mix.

 

In the mix for what? They missed the playoffs and, really, haven't been particularly potent in recent memory. They are "in the mix" because people keep saying ad nauseum that Andrew Luck puts them there. I mean, wow, they are "in the mix SOLELY because the Texans are the division champs. I mean, wow, the TEXANS and their sh!tty QB situation and generally underwhelming roster, still beats the Golden Boy Luck. How in the world does that support your argument?

[bitonti]

Just now, Tinstar said:

All fine answers with the exception of Bit who disappointed me with his answer . 

1

to answer your question #1 WR is the next most important position. An Odell, AJ Green or Julio Jones type puts points on the board and changes games. 

You have 2 down Nose tackle as a more important position than WR that's disappointing to me Tinstar.