Scott Dierking Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Such diametrically opposed views. -One QB (Glennon) who has not seen a meaningful snap in a real NFL game , and is claimed by at least one to give the Jets playoff hopes next year -One QB (Hackenberg) who has never seen an NFL snap in a real game, and those that claim they know exactly what he is. How are the Korn Ferry's of the world missing the potential GM's on this site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Such diametrically opposed views. -One QB (Glennon) who has not seen a meaningful snap in a real NFL game , and is claimed by at least one to give the Jets playoff hopes next year -One QB (Hackenberg) who has never seen an NFL snap in a real game, and those that claim they know exactly what he is. How are the Korn Ferry's of the world missing the potential GM's on this site? Don;t tell me you are from the camp that says lets wait 5 years until we know exactly what a player is ;like before making any judgment about him at all. Know what? I just decided that Gholston sucks! I think we finally gave him enough time to see if he is good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Don;t tell me you are from the camp that says lets wait 5 years until we know exactly what a player is ;like before making any judgment about him at all. Know what? I just decided that Gholston sucks! I think we finally gave him enough time to see if he is good or not. I saw Gholston on the NFL field to tell me he sucked. That was not 5 years into his tenure. I have seen flashes of Hackenberg, that tell me there is skill there. But that guarantees nothing, I realize. But, no one here has seen what Hackenberg did behind the scenes and what he didn't do. I will reserve the eye test until I actually see it. No offense to all the pro personnel authorities here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 4 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Reluctance? Why would he be as good? He's a 2nd round pick who didn't practice. For season one he shouldn't have been as good. Doesn't mean he's less talented and won't be better moving forward or better yet that It proves Hack sucks. Been saying this all along Prescott was better than Petty despite being a 4th round pick and a rookie. You keep saying he didn't practice but this is more made-up nonsense. Of course he practiced. The rest is just silliness. Nobody said he has no talent, and he did suck as a rookie. But people who have badly lost arguments quite typically resort to exaggeration to the point of absurdity, while refusing to answer direct questions, as you're doing now. You keep responding to posts, but each response fails to offer a simple explanation to events as they actually unfolded (not as they unfolded in your imagination). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I just read on bleacher report the jets have no faith in Hackenberg or petty .. and are doing extensive work on Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, joewilly12 said: The FACT that he couldn't get on the field with a roster of the worst QB's in the NFL speaks volumes. He wasn't ready to play. Even NFL people that like Hackenberg when he was drafted said it would take 2-3 years for Hackenberg to compete for the starting job. He may or may not make it, but I am not writing him off because he didn't play as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said: I saw Gholston on the NFL field to tell me he sucked. That was not 5 years into his tenure. I have seen flashes of Hackenberg, that tell me there is skill there. But that guarantees nothing, I realize. But, no one here has seen what Hackenberg did behind the scenes and what he didn't do. I will reserve the eye test until I actually see it. No offense to all the pro personnel authorities here Like the coaches that said he could not hit the Ocean. I really want him to be good. I fear the truth is we sign a vet who starts, or Draft a new QB. Kids pretty much done before he started. He Never see's the field, may be pre-season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 52 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said: He wasn't ready to play. Even NFL people that like Hackenberg when he was drafted said it would take 2-3 years for Hackenberg to compete for the starting job. He may or may not make it, but I am not writing him off because he didn't play as a rookie. The HC and GM will be fired. The only teams that can let a QB not play and sit are ones with All World QB's already. The Pats and Brett Favre Packers. "Lets tell Woody we suck for 3-5 years just to see if Hack can play." The answer is you're Fired! QBs must learn their trade playing, not hitting the books/Film room. It's how everyone learns doing it. If Hack does not play this year, he only gets to play if the next QB is hurt, and that's the truth. The two guys Bowles and Macc are on the hot seat, it's Win or fired. The next HC and GM have no loyalty to picks they did not select. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 52 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said: The HC and GM will be fired. The only teams that can let a QB not play and sit are ones with All World QB's already. The Pats and Brett Favre Packers. "Lets tell Woody we suck for 3-5 years just to see if Hack can play." The answer is you're Fired! QBs must learn their trade playing, not hitting the books/Film room. It's how everyone learns doing it. If Hack does not play this year, he only gets to play if the next QB is hurt, and that's the truth. The two guys Bowles and Macc are on the hot seat, it's Win or fired. The next HC and GM have no loyalty to picks they did not select. Every 2 years for as long as I can remember, I red the same exact thing on some forum that's supposedly a support system for the Jets and their fans 40 + years, and the same stuff over and over again . It will never end until something changes, and as far as I can tell, there's only 1 constant . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 hours ago, JetsFanatic said: He wasn't ready to play. Even NFL people that like Hackenberg when he was drafted said it would take 2-3 years for Hackenberg to compete for the starting job. He may or may not make it, but I am not writing him off because he didn't play as a rookie. You don't draft a project QB in the second round when you have so many other glaring needs, and then hide him in the basement of MetLife. This pick will decide the fate of Mike Maccagnan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Scott Dierking said: Such diametrically opposed views. -One QB (Glennon) who has not seen a meaningful snap in a real NFL game , and is claimed by at least one to give the Jets playoff hopes next year -One QB (Hackenberg) who has never seen an NFL snap in a real game, and those that claim they know exactly what he is. How are the Korn Ferry's of the world missing the potential GM's on this site? Glennon has played well against actual NFL defenses in regular season games Hack can't even look competent against practice squad scrubs But yeah your so smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: Prescott was better than Petty despite being a 4th round pick and a rookie. You keep saying he didn't practice but this is more made-up nonsense. Of course he practiced. The rest is just silliness. Nobody said he has no talent, and he did suck as a rookie. But people who have badly lost arguments quite typically resort to exaggeration to the point of absurdity, while refusing to answer direct questions, as you're doing now. You keep responding to posts, but each response fails to offer a simple explanation to events as they actually unfolded (not as they unfolded in your imagination). Have to say, have no idea what you are arguing. He didn't play, wasn't set up to play. You actually believe that 4th string QBs get real practice time and that Hack was a two at one point. I'm the one making shlt up to feed a nonsensical argument. That's pure garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 hours ago, thadude said: But yeah your so smart I hope that the irony is not lost on you here, but I suspect it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Have to say, have no idea what you are arguing. He didn't play, wasn't set up to play. You actually believe that 4th string QBs get real practice time and that Hack was a two at one point. I'm the one making shlt up to feed a nonsensical argument. That's pure garbage. He didn't play because he didn't earn a place on the game day roster, not because the GM+HC forbade suiting him up on principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 He didn't play because he didn't earn a place on the game day roster, not because the GM+HC forbade suiting him up on principle. wrong.Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 10 hours ago, joewilly12 said: You don't draft a project QB in the second round when you have so many other glaring needs, and then hide him in the basement of MetLife. This pick will decide the fate of Mike Maccagnan. That's a different argument than saying he will not make it. I supoose Mac though Fitz could start for a couple of years before turning the reigns over to Hackenberg. Well that plan is certainly out the window. Look for another vet QB to play "bridge" at that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said: I hope that the irony is not lost on you here, but I suspect it is Stick to baseball and denying that anyone who doesn't play for the Yankees take steroids its your strong suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, Dunnie said: wrong. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app How does hack not even get to dress as the third string qb after Geno tears his ACL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckkieB Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, thadude said: How does hack not even get to dress as the third string qb after Geno tears his ACL? There is no defending this other than the obvious - the coaching staff and/or GM thought that Hackenberg was miles away from being an NFL QB in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 34 minutes ago, Dunnie said: wrong. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app lol you make a baseless, one-word reply and then rep yourself? They held a competition between Hackenberg and Petty after Geno went on IR. Each received 1st team reps that week. There was no ruling out either one - this includes Hackenberg - starting games even before the team was mathematically eliminated. This is right from the mouth of Todd Bowles and is a matter of public record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, thadude said: How does hack not even get to dress as the third string qb after Geno tears his ACL? Who dresses 3 QBs? It isn't 1978. 9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: lol you make a baseless, one-word reply and then rep yourself? Why can we even do that? What a puss move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, thadude said: Stick to baseball and denying that anyone who doesn't play for the Yankees take steroids its your strong suit I would strongly suggest you have not read my posts in the baseball forum. Your logic and insinuation is faulty. It is interesting that you seem to make generalizations about a player in practice situations that you have not seen, yet are guided by unnamed coaching sources. Would these be from the same staff that many here feel are incompetent? See the issue there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: Who dresses 3 QBs? It isn't 1978. Why can we even do that? What a puss move. See, you should have repped your own post here. Comedy 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 lol you make a baseless, one-word reply and then rep yourself? They held a competition between Hackenberg and Petty after Geno went on IR. Each received 1st team reps that week. There was no ruling out either one - this includes Hackenberg - starting games even before the team was mathematically eliminated. This is right from the mouth of Todd Bowles and is a matter of public record. it's not baseless at all and liking it furthered my point ... you have zero idea if the coaching staff red shirted him all season or not and your arrogant know it all remarks need to be deflated ... now sit down child.Bowles said the only way Hack sees the field is if everyone gets injured. To be exact ... we'd need to be in really bad shape. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPitch Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I dont wanna sohnd like a pessimist but i have never ever heard such bad news about a player than what surrounds hackenburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, HighPitch said: I dont wanna sohnd like a pessimist but i have never ever heard such bad news about a player than what surrounds hackenburg So I am up to speed, with my want to assess and understand: Please document this "bad news" with the appropriate sources. I want to be a pessimist with the best of them, and am looking for this hard evidence to sour my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Dunnie said: it's not baseless at all and liking it furthered my point ... you have zero idea if the coaching staff red shirted him all season or not and your arrogant know it all remarks need to be deflated ... now sit down child. Bowles said the only way Hack sees the field is if everyone gets injured. To be exact ... we'd need to be in really bad shape. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Lol if Bowles said - and I'd love to see where he did - that it's because Hackenberg was terrible in 2016. Maccagnan said he'd have an opportunity to compete for the starting job right after drafting him. Bowles allowed him to compete for the #2 job (i.e. suiting up every Sunday) when Geno went on IR). You are simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: Lol if Bowles said - and I'd love to see where he did - that it's because Hackenberg was terrible in 2016. Maccagnan said he'd have an opportunity to compete for the starting job right after drafting him. Bowles allowed him to compete for the #2 job (i.e. suiting up every Sunday) when Geno went on IR). You are simply wrong. The fact that the Jets carried 4 qb's at the start of the season, basically rendered Hackenberg "redshirted"this year. No one can argue, that the Jets best laid plan, at least at the end of August was for Hack to not to take a snap in an NFL regular season game this year. Of course, as in life, and certainly the NFL, best laid plans go out the window, and plans B, C, D have to be put in effect. Whether Hackenberg truly had an opportunity to compete in any of those scenarios, I can not say. That would take thinking like Macc, Bowles and Gailey, and that frightens me to small degree. No doubt it was disappointing that Hack did not even seemingly earn snaps in week 16 or 17. But, it may also be the case that with a disaster of a season, and a probability of poor performance, that the Jets just decided to cut their losses on this season, and not heap extra scrutiny on this horrible season and cut bait. Nothing would be gained other than morbid curiosity of a vocal and angered fanbase. That in and of itself does not make for a great reason to throw an experiment out there. Only trying to think how they may have looked at it. Again, that is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said: The fact that the Jets carried 4 qb's at the start of the season, basically rendered Hackenberg "redshirted"this year. No one can argue, that the Jets best laid plan, at least at the end of August was for Hack to not to take a snap in an NFL regular season game this year. Of course, as in life, and certainly the NFL, best laid plans go out the window, and plans B, C, D have to be put in effect. Whether Hackenberg truly had an opportunity to compete in any of those scenarios, I can not say. That would take thinking like Macc, Bowles and Gailey, and that frightens me to small degree. No doubt it was disappointing that Hack did not even seemingly earn snaps in week 16 or 17. But, it may also be the case that with a disaster of a season, and a probability of poor performance, that the Jets just decided to cut their losses on this season, and not heap extra scrutiny on this horrible season and cut bait. Nothing would be gained other than morbid curiosity of a vocal and angered fanbase. That in and of itself does not make for a great reason to throw an experiment out there. Only trying to think how they may have looked at it. Again, that is scary. No problem, but none of this suggests he was given no opportunities to play, which is what I'm being told in comical fashion. So what if they ideally wanted him to sit - after determining first hand he needed to sit - since they ideally also wanted to get to he playoffs and beyond. Ideal desire doesn't factor into it. I'm going by what they said and what they did, and am giving that more credence than what others want to think they really did, even if it flied in the face of events that unfolded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jett Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I think this may have been the worst post I've ever seen. You get as much time as your play allows. You play well you get to keep playing. You don't play well you don't play. No quarterback gets benched playing well. Matt Ryan has been an elite quarterback for most of his career. Hack will get a chance if he deserves it and whatever happens after that is earned, good or bad. You don't give a guy x amount of years to figure it out. You give him an appropriate allotted time and judge him on his play and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: No problem, but none of this suggests he was given no opportunities to play, which is what I'm being told in comical fashion. So what if they ideally wanted him to sit - after determining first hand he needed to sit - since they ideally also wanted to get to he playoffs and beyond. Ideal desire doesn't factor into it. I'm going by what they said and what they did, and am giving that more credence than what others want to think they really did, even if it flied in the face of events that unfolded. We are in close alignment here. As always speculation crawls in. What will be most important is what he does next year, not what he did this year. Whether there is correlation or not between the 2, remains to be seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said: We are in close alignment here. As always speculation crawls in. What will be most important is what he does next year, not what he did this year. Whether there is correlation or not between the 2, remains to be seen Of course. I never said he has no chance to succeed in the future. It is beyond obvious that's in the team's - and all of our - best interests. Trying to excuse a disappointing rookie season, by suggesting he was never permitted to play, despite evidence to the contrary, is unconvincing. If he pans out, I take for granted no one will care about this poor rookie season. He will be what he will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/7/2017 at 8:50 AM, gEYno said: What does this even mean? Honestly? Fans don't need to "give Hackenberg a chance," the Jets will do that for us, or not if he continues on this trajectory. Are we supposed to just pretend that all the evidence that exists points to Hackenberg not being a good QB? Is that what is meant by giving him a chance? Are we supposed to pretend he wasn't awful in college? Are we supposed to accept the narrative that it was all the coach (who just after Hack left, was a hair outside the Nat. Championship)? Are we supposed to pretend that he wasn't awful from all reports in training camp? That he didn't get preseason reps until he did, and was terrible? Are we supposed to pretend that despite this season circling the drain in October, that he didn't even dress, and that's okay? Are we supposed to ignore the multiple anonymous quotes from team sources saying exactly what we all saw, that he's terrible? Hackenberg may turn into the greatest QB of all time. That is a possibility. But, the objective evidence suggests otherwise. In fact, it suggests he doesn't belong in the NFL at all. So, to the original question, what exactly does it mean for fans to "give Hackenberg a chance?" I think you about covered it. It means exactly what I said. Give him a chance; considering he was redshirted this entire season by design, lets see what he does with a full offseason program, training camp and some you know, actually reps. You can focus on his college days, training camp from last year where he received almost no reps etc. At the end of the day, none of that really matters; it is what he does going forward that I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I previously slotted Mitch Trubisky here, citing some news story that the Jets had interest in him. Charlie Campbell squashed those reports in his Senior Bowl Rumor Mill. The scuttlebutt is that Christian Hackenberg has developed well behind the scenes, so perhaps the Jets won't give up on him without seeing him play after all. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php#Qp1PCJCFLUP6a5SO.99Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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