Was Darrelle Revis the best Jets defensive player ever?

[jason423]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:55 AM, nyjunc said:

 

If Joe was this dominant why did he only make 2 1st team all pro teams?  a dominant player should be making 1st team AP more than 2 times.  Revis was 1st team all pro basically half his seasons.  Heck a dominant player should make more than 4 PBs too, I know the PB can be a joke but if you are dominant and you have that reputation you almost automatically make it.  Revis was 1st team AP 4x, made 7 PBs- the only years he missed were his rookie season, 2012 when he played just 3 games and 2016.   Klecko made 1st team AP 2x and 4 PBs. 

I think in that era the Pro Bowl carried far more weight than it does now and wasnt that automatic where having a name got you in.  All Pro I think is also more influenced by circumstance now (such as Revis making it as a Patriot which would not have happened on any other team) though its still a tough designation to get. Id still consider Revis' honors to be better and hell get far more support for the HOF than Klecko got but I do think Kleckos honors for that time are very solid. 

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, jason423 said:

I think in that era the Pro Bowl carried far more weight than it does now and wasnt that automatic where having a name got you in.  All Pro I think is also more influenced by circumstance now (such as Revis making it as a Patriot which would not have happened on any other team) though its still a tough designation to get. Id still consider Revis' honors to be better and hell get far more support for the HOF than Klecko got but I do think Kleckos honors for that time are very solid. 

it didn't, pro bowls have always had the same meaning.  a nice honor but mostly due to name recognition.  what has always mattered most are all pro teams.  it's much harder to make 1st team all pro than the pro bowl.

Klecko was a great player, if he doesn't get hurt in '82 he's a HOFer today or if he made/won a SB he'd be in.  they have let in players that deserve it much less than Joe.

[southparkcpa]

57 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it didn't, pro bowls have always had the same meaning.  a nice honor but mostly due to name recognition.  what has always mattered most are all pro teams.  it's much harder to make 1st team all pro than the pro bowl.

Klecko was a great player, if he doesn't get hurt in '82 he's a HOFer today or if he made/won a SB he'd be in.  they have let in players that deserve it much less than Joe.

I agree with all of that except I think there's more..... he must have pissed off someone, somewhere or it's simply due to him being a JET.  HIs numbers and respect by others as well as inferior players who are in, all tell us Joe should be in.

 

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I agree with all of that except I think there's more..... he must have pissed off someone, somewhere or it's simply due to him being a JET.  HIs numbers and respect by others as well as inferior players who are in, all tell us Joe should be in.

 

I think it’s for a few reasons:

 

1: the sack wasn’t an official stat until 1982 and thus his #s aren’t impressive when you look at them(and recent good, not great, pass rushers have made it in b/c they were consistently good but not really great.

2: he didn’t have a long enough prime, injuries really robbed him of the prime of his career

3: never played in or won a SB and Jets haven’t won one since.  Think of Andre Tippett, a great player who made a SB but wasn’t getting in until the Pats started winning SBs and became a darling of football lovers everywhere.  If we could ever win one and become a top team that brings more publicity to older players and could push him over the top.

4: never led in any official category.  Didn’t win DPOY award, didn’t lead league in sacks(in official year), etc…

 

I think they have let in far too many players that don’t deserve it, in a perfect world the Hall is for the absolute best of the best and players like Joe do fall a little short BUT since they allowed so many non all time greats in then I think Joe belongs.

[jack48]

No. He was probably great. But teams did not even try him a lot. Klecko for me

 

[jack48]

Just now, jack48 said:

No. He was probably great. But teams did not even try him a lot. Klecko for me. violent, multi faceted, tough

 

 

[detectivekimble]

21 hours ago, thadude said:

Kris Jenkins

 

Way smaller body of work but other teams just feared him first half of '08 and '09.  

Amazing player when healthy.  He wasn't just good, but he was dominant.  You pay guys with that sort of talent.  Not Muhammad Wilkerson or Sheldon Richardson.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I think it’s for a few reasons:

 

1: the sack wasn’t an official stat until 1982 and thus his #s aren’t impressive when you look at them(and recent good, not great, pass rushers have made it in b/c they were consistently good but not really great.

2: he didn’t have a long enough prime, injuries really robbed him of the prime of his career

3: never played in or won a SB and Jets haven’t won one since.  Think of Andre Tippett, a great player who made a SB but wasn’t getting in until the Pats started winning SBs and became a darling of football lovers everywhere.  If we could ever win one and become a top team that brings more publicity to older players and could push him over the top.

4: never led in any official category.  Didn’t win DPOY award, didn’t lead league in sacks(in official year), etc…

 

I think they have let in far too many players that don’t deserve it, in a perfect world the Hall is for the absolute best of the best and players like Joe do fall a little short BUT since they allowed so many non all time greats in then I think Joe belongs.

frankly i'd still pick klecko but when did the fans start voting for all pro's?  seems to me back then it was by his peers or coaches so it would've carried more weight.

[thadude]

15 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Amazing player when healthy.  He wasn't just good, but he was dominant.  You pay guys with that sort of talent.  Not Muhammad Wilkerson or Sheldon Richardson.

Other than Kris Jenkins I don't think the Jets ever had a player other teams actually feared.  Revis was a great corner but whatever just throw to another receiver.  Abe was good when he wasn't pretending to be injured but he wasn't like a Lawrence Taylor.  Wilkerson was and still is ridiculously overrated.

 

Kris Jenkins had opposing QB's and Head Coaches scared

[Snell41]

Other than Kris Jenkins I don't think the Jets ever had a player other teams actually feared.  Revis was a great corner but whatever just throw to another receiver.  Abe was good when he wasn't pretending to be injured but he wasn't like a Lawrence Taylor.  Wilkerson was and still is ridiculously overrated.
 
Kris Jenkins had opposing QB's and Head Coaches scared

What are you 12?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Lil Woody]

Was Revis great for 9 years....or was he exceptional for 1, great for 2 and average to meh the rest of the time?

His Revis Island year was a thing of beauty.  He was also great in 08 and 11. Beyond those 3 years what are we talking about? Did he play so much better than the CB field the rest of the time? Not imo.

He should make the HOF.  There are lesser players in there than he was. But I just don't think of him with the reverence that I think should be required for any HOFer. 

[Lil Woody]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

Wilkerson was and still is ridiculously overrated.

Wilk = Sean Ellis

A relative stud at a position that most people just don't value or entirely understand the value of.  Like Ellis, the fans have also turned on him once he got paid, created (mostly through his own doing) a negative headline and then didn't produce like a 4-3 DE.

I expect Wilk to play at the top of his game again this season.  Hopefully our idiot HC will put actual edge rushers around him and Leo once we get rid of Sheldon.

[thadude]

5 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Wilk = Sean Ellis

A relative stud at a position that most people just don't value or entirely understand the value of.  Like Ellis, the fans have also turned on him once he got paid, created (mostly through his own doing) a negative headline and then didn't produce like a 4-3 DE.

I expect Wilk to play at the top of his game again this season.  Hopefully our idiot HC will put actual edge rushers around him and Leo once we get rid of Sheldon.

Why do you guys act like Sheldon Richardson is the obstacle of our defense being good?

[Lil Woody]

Just now, thadude said:

Why do you guys act like Sheldon Richardson is the obstacle of our defense being good?

He's an obstacle to our team growing and developing. He sure can play DT very well. But his distractions, lockerroom conflicts, inserting himself into other players contract negotiations and general stupidity have created far more trouble than he is worth. Couple that with the idiot coach trying to get cute with him playing out of position and the lack of progress being made at edge rush from our actual OLBs as a result and the question becomes - Why do you think he should be here?

Just to be able to say our DE rotation is amazing?  Pass.  I'll gladly take a backup DE with less talent if he has just any amount of the heart and work ethic desired in a professional athlete.

Sheldon is an extremely talented cancer.

[thadude]

30 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

He's an obstacle to our team growing and developing. He sure can play DT very well. But his distractions, lockerroom conflicts, inserting himself into other players contract negotiations and general stupidity have created far more trouble than he is worth. Couple that with the idiot coach trying to get cute with him playing out of position and the lack of progress being made at edge rush from our actual OLBs as a result and the question becomes - Why do you think he should be here?

Just to be able to say our DE rotation is amazing?  Pass.  I'll gladly take a backup DE with less talent if he has just any amount of the heart and work ethic desired in a professional athlete.

Sheldon is an extremely talented cancer.

A real head coach would have no problem dealing with Richardson.  Also, a real head coach wouldn't be playing him often at OLB.

[Smashmouth]

Joe Klecko was the best Jets defender ever. There were also plenty of defensive players who had a long tenure that might have not been elite but they had  way more time invested in the team and not the ******* Patriots.

Ellis

Lewis

Glenn

 

[predator_05]

Most talented Jets player i have ever seen.

Lack of longevity is a pretty big knock on him, as is the greediness he displayed during the hold-out. Not to say i wouldn't have done the same if i were in his position - go for the money - but as a fan, it was a bit frustrating to follow.

With that said, when he was good, he was really, really good. For a while, Jets fans could legitimately claim to have the best player in the league at a particular position. He didn't just hold his own, but SHUT DOWN, the likes of Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Terrell Owens, Ochocinco, Marques Colston, Brandon Marshall. That's basically a hall of fame lineup of wide receivers. Guy was one of a kind.

and let's not forget this big play in one of the most memorable Jets games we've seen in recent history:

 

[SAR I]

Quote

Was Darrelle Revis the best Jets defensive player ever?

Is this a joke?

He ran around not making plays, not making a difference as shutting down half the field matters not when the other half is wide open.

SAR I

[Dcat]

On 2/28/2017 at 10:26 PM, Sarge4Tide said:

What is your reaction to this statement

All things considered, Darrelle Revis was the best defensive player in the history of the New York Jets

I would take Klecko over him without  blinking an eye.

[detectivekimble]

4 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Was Revis great for 9 years....or was he exceptional for 1, great for 2 and average to meh the rest of the time?

His Revis Island year was a thing of beauty.  He was also great in 08 and 11. Beyond those 3 years what are we talking about? Did he play so much better than the CB field the rest of the time? Not imo.

He should make the HOF.  There are lesser players in there than he was. But I just don't think of him with the reverence that I think should be required for any HOFer. 

Best CB in the league from 2009-2013.  Pro Bowl player in 2008, 2014, and 2015.  Pretty damn good.  

Also, Brady recently brought him up in a conversation about the best players he's played against.  That's high praise.

"I don't remember a lot of those guys like Jim Brown playing," Brady said. "I remember Lawrence Taylor, obviously; he terrorized the 49ers. ... I know that I haven't played against a lot of those guys, but I've also played against a lot of guys that when I think of Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison and Dwight Freeney and Jason Taylor and Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and Darrelle Revis -- if those guys aren't the best, then whoever is better than them is only better by percentage points. It's not a big difference. So, like Deion Sanders, for example. I remember watching him play, how spectacular he was. But I can't imagine someone that much better than Revis. If there were, you couldn't complete a ball against Darrelle. So completing a ball against Deion is not much different than completing a ball against Darrelle."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19360436/nfl-new-england-patriots-qb-tom-brady-last-challenge-surpassing-nba-hall-famer-michael-jordan-ultimate-goat

[Dcat]

9 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Most talented Jets player i have ever seen.

Lack of longevity is a pretty big knock on him, as is the greediness he displayed during the hold-out. Not to say i wouldn't have done the same if i were in his position - go for the money - but as a fan, it was a bit frustrating to follow.

With that said, when he was good, he was really, really good. For a while, Jets fans could legitimately claim to have the best player in the league at a particular position. He didn't just hold his own, but SHUT DOWN, the likes of Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Terrell Owens, Ochocinco, Marques Colston, Brandon Marshall. That's basically a hall of fame lineup of wide receivers. Guy was one of a kind.

and let's not forget this big play in one of the most memorable Jets games we've seen in recent history:

 

all true but overall, Klecko did a lot more for the franchise than greedy Revis.  He made his own bed. Sorry... but as this thread shows,  the majority of fans (I think a significant majority) will regard Klecko as the Jets best defensive player of all time. The exceptions seems to come from those who were too young or not even born during Klecko's time.  

[nyjunc]

17 hours ago, rangerous said:

frankly i'd still pick klecko but when did the fans start voting for all pro's?  seems to me back then it was by his peers or coaches so it would've carried more weight.

fans don't vote for all pro and for pro bowls the fan vote is a small percentage. 

[predator_05]

9 hours ago, Dcat said:

all true but overall, Klecko did a lot more for the franchise than greedy Revis.  He made his own bed. Sorry... but as this thread shows,  the majority of fans (I think a significant majority) will regard Klecko as the Jets best defensive player of all time. The exceptions seems to come from those who were too young or not even born during Klecko's time.  

That's the category i fall in. Not even born in that era.

[Dcat]

16 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

That's the category i fall in. Not even born in that era.

having watched dozens of games each year with both Revis and Klecko, no doubt in my mind, Klecko > Revis.  Too bad you didn't see Klecko play and watch how the entire opposing offense had to adjust to account for him.