Report: Jets management doesn't expect to be good for a couple years

[joewilly12]

Im going to take my lumps for saying this again but when management comes out and tells you we don't expect to be good for a couple of years after all we have all endured as Jets fans this organization is in deep trouble. 

[UntouchableCrew]

45 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we didn't draft poorly under tannenbaum, he just liked to trade away picks.  

He was a terrible drafter once Rex became head coach.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Draft Mike Williams. Fits all of the above criteria, and then some.

We said the same thing about Stephen Hill and Devin Smith and they weren't even able to get on the field let alone shine under a rookie level quarterback.

SAR I

[SAR I]

59 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we didn't draft poorly under tannenbaum, he just liked to trade away picks.  

What he did worked, people forget that.

Parcells '98 and Tannenbaum '09/'10 were both free agent quick-fixes that led us to the most success we've had since Namath.  Don't discount the George Steinbrenner strategy.  In fact, in this upcoming era without dominant quarterbacks like Elway, Brady, Manning, and Roethlistbeger, it might actually work.

SAR I

[section314]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We said the same thing about Stephen Hill and Devin Smith and they weren't even able to get on the field let alone shine under a rookie level quarterback.

SAR I

I agree with the two above guys not showing anything, but this guy is in a different stratosphere than Hill and Smith. 

[Jetdawgg]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

The Air Force has prettier uniforms and prettier planes.  No knock on the Marines, they're okay.

SAR I

....and some very pretty women too that love us kick @ss Marines

[SAR I]

57 minutes ago, thadude said:

MetLife is such a microcosm of NYC

Overpriced and ugly

I get replacing Yankee stadium and Shea stadium but there was nothing wrong with Giants stadium

Giants Stadium had to go so that Jets fans stuck on 20 year waiting lists with no chance at getting a great seating location could finally get their shot.

That's what was wrong with Giants Stadium. 

Those who loved it were the ones with seats between the 20's inherited from their grandfather from the Shea days.  The rest of us were screwed for decades.  The new building justified the price increases and the licenses.  Some hate it, we all know why.  Others love it, now you know why-  we finally got seats in our name in a great location without being stuck behind someone who was just lucky enough to have an ancestor willing to pay $12 for tickets in Shea Stadium.

SAR I

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We said the same thing about Stephen Hill and Devin Smith and they weren't even able to get on the field let alone shine under a rookie level quarterback.

SAR I

Smith was touted as a speedy WR who never had to learn much route running at Ohio State and it was the concensus that he needed work to become competant in NFL route running..  He was speed and speed alone, or so said every single draft write up on him.  So no.... nobody said the "same thing" about Devin Smith.  Hill came with lots of question marks.  Again speed with little to no route running skills. That was the consensus take on him before the draft.  Again... quite different from the reviews of Mike Smith.  I don't see much similarity.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I'm not against that scenario at all. Problem is, Macc and Bowles aren't going to sacrifice their jobs like that. They are going to try and put a competitive team on the field. I still think we end up with Cutler or maybe Tyrod Taylor at QB. Glennon possibly as well.

You don't have to worry, that's out the window.

The same reason compelling Marshall to leave is the same reason no decent FA is going to come here.  They can do better elsewhere.  Financially and professionally.

SAR I

[SAR I]

59 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I hated playing in "Giants Stadium", I hated the blue and red seats but as a football stadium it was perfect

Yeah, if you were a member of the lucky sperm club and had great seats from Grandpa Shea at 20% of fair market value.

And when I was a season ticket holder there for 10 years, my seats in the mezzanine were under a gutter from the upper deck and when it rained the leak from that gutter sent a stream of water down in our section stronger than a garden hose.  It was a dump.  The views in the new place are only slightly compromised, there aren't bad views so long as you're not in the upper deck.

SAR I

[jetscrazey]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yeah, if you were a member of the lucky sperm club and had great seats from Grandpa Shea at 20% of fair market value.

And when I was a season ticket holder there for 10 years, my seats in the mezzanine were under a gutter from the upper deck and when it rained the leak from that gutter sent a stream of water down in our section stronger than a garden hose.  It was a dump.  The views in the new place are only slightly compromised, there aren't bad views so long as you're not in the upper deck.

SAR I

I view it more from a crowd noise/competitive advantage perspective.  The old stadium was shaped like a bowl and really put the fans "on top" of the players.  At the old stadium, when the crowd was into it, the Jets were very hard to beat, because with the old stadium's design, the crowd noise really disrupted the opponent (think 2009 vs. NE, 2002 vs Indy).  However, in the current stadium, the loud fans are so much further from the action that achieving that level of disruption on the opposing offense is much, much harder.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

MetLife is such a microcosm of NYC

 

Overpriced and ugly

 

I get replacing Yankee stadium and Shea stadium but there was nothing wrong with Giants stadium

untrue.  All of the escalators in Giants stadium were going to have to be replaced within the next several years.  Very expensive and unsafe. There were leaks everywhere (just ask SAR about one of them right over his seat).  There were too few luxury boxes suites for the 21st century. Locker rooms were inadequate for the Jets and visiting teams (not sure about Giants).  Basically, it was going to cost money to renovate and make necessay safety improvement with little chance for generating more revenue in the absence of luxury sections, boxes or suites. It made no economic sense to pour any new money into that deteriorating stadium. None.

[SAR I]

54 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The addition part will come.

Over the next few years.

We have little choice but to wait, and let it play out.

...or we wind up doing this for two years, Woody Johnson gets impatient and realizes that Tannenbaum's and Parcells' strategies worked best, and we wind up going full-Steinbrenner again and all we did was needlessly waste the '17 and '18 campaign's on a lousy head coach.

I don't see a "proper rebuild" flying in a city like New York.  Perhaps in tiny markets like Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, and Oakland where there is little competition for the entertainment dollar those owners can get away with it.  It nearly killed the Mets.  It will certainly kill the Jets. 

I can barely get my wife and kids to come with dad to a Jets game when we're 11-5 and AFC contenders, I'll be sitting there all alone with 3 empty seats if we go 3-13 for the next 10 years.  And unless we get very lucky, that's what we're in for.  Look at the Dolphins post-Marino.  Look at the Colts and Patriots pre-Manning and pre-Brady.  Look at the Browns.  This all sounds good on paper, and with nothing to do in Cleveland but watch the Browns or tip cows it might fly there.  But it's not going to work in New York.  Just watch.

SAR I

[Dcat]

10 minutes ago, section314 said:

I agree with the two above guys not showing anything, but this guy is in a different stratosphere than Hill and Smith. 

Correct.  apples to oranges with that comparison to 2nd rounders Smith and Hill.

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yeah, if you were a member of the lucky sperm club and had great seats from Grandpa Shea at 20% of fair market value.

And when I was a season ticket holder there for 10 years, my seats in the mezzanine were under a gutter from the upper deck and when it rained the leak from that gutter sent a stream of water down in our section stronger than a garden hose.  It was a dump.  The views in the new place are only slightly compromised, there aren't bad views so long as you're not in the upper deck.

SAR I

yeah... that's the thing.  If you are in the lowers or Mezz, MetLife is 100X better than the old dump.  But if you are in the uppers, the yearning for Giants stadium is understandable.  Absolutely hate the height and distance from MetLife uppers.  It's a suck fest up there with respect to the view.

[SAR I]

58 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

It's time for a proper tank job.  No more band aids.  I personally think we'll be very competitive come 2019, and it will be all worth it.

Be careful what you wish for.

There is no way this team is going to be "very competitive" in two seasons.  It took the Raiders almost 20.  The Browns are still waiting after 30. 

The Steinbrenner band aid strategy nearly worked but we ran into a wall called Hall Of Fame quarterbacks.  Elway, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady.  Look down the road a few years, they're all gone, no one similar coming up behind them.  This may be the very time to do it again, quick strike free agent bonanza in 2019, not this build slowly through the draft nonsense.

SAR I

[AdrianMurrel]

This must mean the gm and coach have more job security then we think 

[thadude]

26 minutes ago, Dcat said:

untrue.  All of the escalators in Giants stadium were going to have to be replaced within the next several years.  Very expensive and unsafe. There were leaks everywhere (just ask SAR about one of them right over his seat).  There were too few luxury boxes suites for the 21st century. Locker rooms were inadequate for the Jets and visiting teams (not sure about Giants).  Basically, it was going to cost money to renovate and make necessay safety improvement with little chance for generating more revenue in the absence of luxury sections, boxes or suites. It made no economic sense to pour any new money into that deteriorating stadium. None.

Oh the escalators!  

[thadude]

6 minutes ago, AdrianMurrel said:

This must mean the gm and coach have more job security then we think 

They don't.  Mac will be lucky to be helping Idzik get coffee a year from now and Bowles will be begging Arians for an assistant job

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't see why people are mixing up notions of attempting to rebuild with rebuilding successfully.

Clearly teams that miss the playoffs for 17 years aren't dumb for trying to rebuild they're just failing in their efforts to rebuild.

The Jets need to rebuild through the draft. They just need to do it successfully by landing a QB and hitting on most of their picks. This is Mike Macagnans job.

Yes, but it's worth discussing the other way to do this, the Jets being the only team I'm aware of that did it to this extent-

We might have actually won a Super Bowl if a few bounces went our way and a few injuries didn't happen, and it was following the Steinbrenner approach. 

If the draft is too risky.
If developing homegrown talent is too lengthy.
If you're not in a position to draft a sure-thing franchise QB.
If you have the cap space...

...why not cherry-pick the free agent pool for players who have shown some life already, are validated NFL caliber players?  Why not let some other franchise take all the risks and patiently develop playmakers and they go scoop 'em up on the cheap towards the end of their careers?  The '09 and '10 Jets are a bust if not for LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, Thomas Jones, Braylon Edwards, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Tony Richardson, Antonio Cromartie, Nick Folk, Kris Jenkins, Jason Taylor, those are some of the best Jets we've seen in the last 30 years, they were all cheap by free agent standards.  Not every guy we signed was a Bart Scott or a Santonio Holmes on the pocketbook.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Im going to take my lumps for saying this again but when management comes out and tells you we don't expect to be good for a couple of years after all we have all endured as Jets fans this organization is in deep trouble. 

On this we can agree.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Jetdawgg said:

....and some very pretty women too that love us kick @ss Marines

Yeah, but some Marines are too opinionated and lippy, like Colonel Nathan R. Jessup.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, jetscrazey said:

I view it more from a crowd noise/competitive advantage perspective.  The old stadium was shaped like a bowl and really put the fans "on top" of the players.  At the old stadium, when the crowd was into it, the Jets were very hard to beat, because with the old stadium's design, the crowd noise really disrupted the opponent (think 2009 vs. NE, 2002 vs Indy).  However, in the current stadium, the loud fans are so much further from the action that achieving that level of disruption on the opposing offense is much, much harder.

If you've been to Gillette Stadium, same thing, quiet lower bowl, wide open stadium design including an open endzone and 10,000 less fans than in MetLife each game.  Yet they still win Super Bowls.

It's not about the stadium.  We were louder in 2015 against the Patriots in OT than we ever were in Giants Stadium.

SAR I

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Im going to take my lumps for saying this again but when management comes out and tells you we don't expect to be good for a couple of years after all we have all endured as Jets fans this organization is in deep trouble. 

 

Jets fans shouldn't expect the Jets to be good, ever. 

2 years is a farce

If all it took to get better was to lose all your games, the Browns would be amazing by now

[Jetdawgg]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yeah, but some Marines are too opinionated and lippy, like Colonel Nathan R. Jessup.

SAR I

Hard to contain someone that knows they are the one of best fighters in the world. It is confidence. Some mistake it for arrogance.

we just call it being a Marine

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

untrue.  All of the escalators in Giants stadium were going to have to be replaced within the next several years.  Very expensive and unsafe. There were leaks everywhere (just ask SAR about one of them right over his seat).  There were too few luxury boxes suites for the 21st century. Locker rooms were inadequate for the Jets and visiting teams (not sure about Giants).  Basically, it was going to cost money to renovate and make necessay safety improvement with little chance for generating more revenue in the absence of luxury sections, boxes or suites. It made no economic sense to pour any new money into that deteriorating stadium. None.

Perfectly stated.  And I'll add:

Neither Giants fans, Jets fans, or the New York media would have tolerated PSL's in a refurbished Giants Stadium.  It would have come off wrong.  The justification of the PSL's was the shiny new stadium repleat with the features you mention above.  The huge benefit to the fans were taking back the stadium from the scalpers who had found Jets season ticket holders in great seats who couldn't resist the money.  I know a guy personally who accumulated 12 seats from his aging father and deceased uncle, they'd had them since Shea, and this guy sold those 12 seats for obscene money, he bought luxury cars and college educations off the backs of Jets fans frozen out of the stadium on dreadful waiting lists.

Now the Jets control the money-  their Club prices are akin to what scalpers were getting.  And the diehard fans get to sit in the seats they can afford-  without being blocked by a member of the lucky sperm club.

SAR I

[Integrity28]

12 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yeah, but some Marines are too opinionated and lippy, like Colonel Nathan R. Jessup.

SAR I

 

5 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Hard to contain someone that knows they are the one of best fighters in the world. It is confidence. Some mistake it for arrogance.

we just call it being a Marine

holy sh*t, lol

[SAR I]

59 minutes ago, AdrianMurrel said:

This must mean the gm and coach have more job security then we think 

It's all about our reaction, it's all about the fans.

Mets fans kept hearing how they were going to have an epic 5 man rotation, they could see these players develop with their own eyes in the minors, they had hope for a brighter future and it was a promise that they could believe.  Mets took baby steps, then broke through.  Promise kept.  Patience rewarded.

NFL, different story.  It's a quarterback's game, and there are no minor leagues.  People have told me for two years that Quincy Enunwa is going to be the next Michael Irvin, but there's no proof of that, there's no hope for that without a decent quarterback. He looks quite average, looked awful under Petty.  If the fans revolt, the Jets will take action.  I give this "total rebuild" two years at most, then we're back at Steinbrennering again.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

Of course it's going to be a few years.  Mac's had 13 picks, 6 of them in the first 3 rounds and he's hit on one player.  His FA's have been a disaster.  It's whatever, its the Jets so who cares if they think it's going to be a few years but the problem is, it shouldnt be this way. This should be the year where it's all coming together.  Instead because of poor roster management and ability to acquire talent, it's a complete blow up do over from basically scratch.

And still no QB but dont worry because they have a veteran FA in mind.

 

 

 

[southparkcpa]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's all about our reaction, it's all about the fans.

Mets fans kept hearing how they were going to have an epic 5 man rotation, they could see these players develop with their own eyes in the minors, they had hope for a brighter future and it was a promise that they could believe.  Mets took baby steps, then broke through.  Promise kept.  Patience rewarded.

NFL, different story.  It's a quarterback's game, and there are no minor leagues.  People have told me for two years that Quincy Enunwa is going to be the next Michael Irvin, but there's no proof of that, there's no hope for that without a decent quarterback. He looks quite average, looked awful under Petty.  If the fans revolt, the Jets will take action.  I give this "total rebuild" two years at most, then we're back at Steinbrennering again.

SAR I

Steinbrenner won.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Of course it's going to be a few years.  Mac's had 13 picks, 6 of them in the first 3 rounds and he's hit on one player.  His FA's have been a disaster.  It's whatever, its the Jets so who cares if they think it's going to be a few years but the problem is, it shouldnt be this way. This should be the year where it's all coming together.  Instead because of poor roster management and ability to acquire talent, it's a complete blow up do over from basically scratch.

And still no QB but dont worry because they have a veteran FA in mind.

 

 

 

Macc still has Fitzpatricks number I'm sure...........

[SAR I]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jets fans shouldn't expect the Jets to be good, ever. 

2 years is a farce

If all it took to get better was to lose all your games, the Browns would be amazing by now

Bingo.

And let's look at the Dallas Cowboys and the Oakland Raiders.  They certainly subscribed to the "full rebuild" strategy going decades with nary a playoff appearance.  But do you think they are going to win it all?  How could you?  History shows it's the team that gets lucky and drafts the right quarterback and scramble to build around him that wins Championships, not these patient rebuild types.

Is there some great team in Green Bay or is it all Aaron Rodgers and a bunch of JAG's making this year's run?  Without the level of play of Tom Brady, are the New England Patriots even a 9 win team?  Go full-Steinbrenner again, wait to get lucky with a quarterback, then flip the script.  We're about to sign off on a decade of 4-12 football.  And people are okay with that?

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Macc still has Fitzpatricks number I'm sure...........

Early in the year I was predicting a return of the Fitz in 2017 but I'm not so sure anymore.  Mac cant be that dumb. 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We're about to sign off on a decade of 4-12 football.  And people are okay with that?

Sadly this may be true I'm so not ready for this I wanted them to win a Super Bowl while I still could attend and enjoy it drinking a beer without a straw and not in a diaper.

[UntouchableCrew]

 

36 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yes, but it's worth discussing the other way to do this, the Jets being the only team I'm aware of that did it to this extent-

We might have actually won a Super Bowl if a few bounces went our way and a few injuries didn't happen, and it was following the Steinbrenner approach. 

If the draft is too risky.
If developing homegrown talent is too lengthy.
If you're not in a position to draft a sure-thing franchise QB.
If you have the cap space...

...why not cherry-pick the free agent pool for players who have shown some life already, are validated NFL caliber players?  Why not let some other franchise take all the risks and patiently develop playmakers and they go scoop 'em up on the cheap towards the end of their careers?  The '09 and '10 Jets are a bust if not for LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, Thomas Jones, Braylon Edwards, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Tony Richardson, Antonio Cromartie, Nick Folk, Kris Jenkins, Jason Taylor, those are some of the best Jets we've seen in the last 30 years, they were all cheap by free agent standards.  Not every guy we signed was a Bart Scott or a Santonio Holmes on the pocketbook.

SAR I

I think the obvious answer is that it's not sustainable. You can't consistently be good that way -- you can buy a decent team for a few years but then you can't afford to keep them because of the salary cap, because they get old, because those types of players often have attitude issues, etc. Those types of teams never last and often fall apart in an ugly manner. 

The Jets have obviously experienced this first hand -- as recently as Macc's first year we went on a spending spree trading for guys like Marshall and signing Revis. It almost (should have) gotten us to the playoffs. And honestly, that was nice after years and years of failure under Rex where we were often a targeted laughing stock of the league. But as it always does it fell apart. 

I don't necessarily blame fans (particularly older fans or season ticket holders who have been going through this much longer than I have and have literally been paying for it) for wanting to win now, for thinking it's insane or unfair to intentionally lose. But if you take a step back and consider the long game I think this could work out great.

In my opinion there's only two ways to be consistently successful in the league. The first is to acquire an excellent QB. The second is to draft extremely well. Most teams that have had long runs of success (Pats, Steelers, Packers) have done both.

The best thing a team can do is completely suck the year before a great QB class. It worked out Great for the Giants, Chargers, and Steelers. They each had an bad year in 2003 right before the famed 2004 draft class.  Each landed their franchise QB for 15 years and never looked back.

That is the move in 2017. Next year's QB class is going to be great, and we want to have the pick of the litter. If that means watching Christian Hackenberg suck beyond belief during a 1-15 campaign sign me up. Don't let short sighted frustrations get in the way of what we need to do to take the mantle from the Pats as the perennial contender in this division once Brady retires.

The Dolphins had Marino. The Bills had Kelly. The Pats had Brady. It's our turn.