Jet Nut Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said: I would take Manziel and his bottle of Johnny Walker Red over Hackenberg any day. And that would have been just as wrong back then as it is today. The again If you post in 2017, knowing what you know today about Manziel that you still would have drafted him today it's pretty self explanatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwanseaJack Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 What can Petty and Hack learn from someone who has played such little football? They'd be better off taking a punt on a late rounder QB surely? If they want someone to learn off, bring in a retired QB to coach them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Once again, you want the Jets to pick players, a QBs, by what another team thinks of that player. Logical. Where did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 Guys, since there is much debate on this I would just like to say that for any position including QB it is always good for someone to push you. It always makes you better. That doesn't mean that you don't have what it takes or a backbone. That is better than the alternative. What is Cutler, MacCown, or even a Fitz type QB going to teach Hack/Petty?. How to throw INTs or make mistakes when the game is on the line. Those are contagious traits you don't need to teach them. There are no real good mentors out there at the QB position for these guys at this point, so we are better off with someone like Daniel, or MacCarron, to provide health competion and if they win the job they are the bext QB to start. If not they provide us a solid backup QB since they have been doing that their whole careers and should be good enough at it. We have an opportunity with a rebuilding team to have a bunch of you QBs and see which one emerges as a leader and solid QB hopefully. No reason to screw up that opportunity with some old retread who either has never proven anything i.e MacCown, or who has prevoen nothing in years i.e Cutler, both of which we seem to have interest in. The again if the Jets are interested in them then it means they are not giving up on Hack/Petty since those old QBs don't have much if anything left in the tank or will be more trouble than their worth like Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 11 hours ago, Pac said: He just got dumped in favor of Nick Foles... NICK FOLES. The guy who got benched for Case Keenum. If the Jets go into the season with Daniels, Petty and Hack we are officially the Washington Generals. ^^^ Wants us to re-sign the guy who lost his job to Ryan Fitzpatrick, twice. Uses the argument that we cannot sign Daniels, because he lost his job to Foles. Foles just got another contract. Nobody wants Fitz. Follow the logic tree. See what I see. Oooh oooh eee eee!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 5 hours ago, SwanseaJack said: What can Petty and Hack learn from someone who has played such little football? They'd be better off taking a punt on a late rounder QB surely? If they want someone to learn off, bring in a retired QB to coach them. It is not QB #1's job to teach QB #2 and #3. That's what coaches are for... and considering that Bowles just scapegoated 7-8 different positional coaches, the lowest acceptable standard should be for coaches to teach at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: It is not QB #1's job to teach QB #2 and #3. That's what coaches are for... and considering that Bowles just scapegoated 7-8 different positional coaches, the lowest acceptable standard should be for coaches to teach at this point. No it is not the Job of back up Vet to teach... but every little bit helps and the Jets QB and team need all the help they can get so why the hell not look for someone who can help. Not everything is black and white and there isn't always the 1 big thing you can do to help in most cases it is all the small things. Belicheat has made a career out of it looking for all the little tiny details that help get edge like statistics, bending rules, filming :), football deflation, stealing scripts from opp locker room, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcola Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 11 hours ago, SickJetFan said: Well exactly that is why I do not want cutler but I will make 1 more prediction If by some remote chance they sign hightower I could see them trying to make a playoff run with cutler, hightower, Carr, and their future draft picks putting the Dev of Petty/Hack on hold. With or without Hightower, if this FO and Coaching staff cant possibly think they are "making a run" on anything. If they were, Mangold and Marshall would still be here. Not sure what they are planning on at QB, but based off of Bowles first two years here, he does not like playing rookies. This in mind, I don't think drafting another QB and throwing him in the mix is an option for them. They will wait out whatever veteran wants almost a guaranteed starting spot as a last shot of their career for basically pennies on the dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, SickJetFan said: No it is not the Job of back up Vet to teach... but every little bit helps and the Jets QB and team need all the help they can get so why the hell not look for someone who can help. Not everything is black and white and there isn't always the 1 big thing you can do to help in most cases it is all the small things. Belicheat has made a career out of it looking for all the little tiny details that help get edge like statistics, bending rules, filming :), football deflation, stealing scripts from opp locker room, etc... So, Bledsoe made Brady into the QB he is today, because Belicheat got an edge by having him as a backup? The notion that one QB makes another better is NFL story telling manifesting itself in the hopefulness of fanbases. It's a very rare circumstance when it happens, and it doesn't make that big a difference. Favre basically ignored Rodgers existence. Montana didn't tutor Young. Even Vinny didn't take time out to "teach" Chad. It's just not a thing, not at the level some folks want it to be. Find a QB who is a self-starter, who can learn on his own, who takes to his coaching, and who has the aptitude and skillset to play at this level. That QB is more responsible for how he develops than the other QBs around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Seems like Jet fans are so hard up for a QB that any garbage that comes available makes it to the, go get him, list. If the Jets can't greatly improved the current QB situation then they should develop Petty and Hack. Maybe draft one of the "possibly" good QB's this year. There's not much out there right now. Petty will be in 3rd year with the Jets and Hack 2nd. Hoping Hack has a good off season and preseason to develop and see what he's got. Heck we haven't seen enough of either guy to write them off yet IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 33 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: So, Bledsoe made Brady into the QB he is today, because Belicheat got an edge by having him as a backup? The notion that one QB makes another better is NFL story telling manifesting itself in the hopefulness of fanbases. It's a very rare circumstance when it happens, and it doesn't make that big a difference. Favre basically ignored Rodgers existence. Montana didn't tutor Young. Even Vinny didn't take time out to "teach" Chad. It's just not a thing, not at the level some folks want it to be. Find a QB who is a self-starter, who can learn on his own, who takes to his coaching, and who has the aptitude and skillset to play at this level. That QB is more responsible for how he develops than the other QBs around him. Brady benefit from knowing the defence plays before the snap sooooo not real good example you come up with Rodgers was a #1 pick so was Young and how do you know what they did in meetings? Practice, etc...you are just talking out your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We had the perfect mentor QB all of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 How long before the word 'sweepstakes' is associated with this guys name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Look, I think that Daniel has two starts in his entire NFL career and Petty has 4. So if he is signed it's to compete for the starter's job not to be given the job. The exhibition season would determine who is named starter. If we sign either Cutler or Kap then Daniel could be brought in to be his backup. In that case they probably get rid of Petty. And Hack would again be the number 3. Probably Daniel will not sign with us to be a backup. He can go to other places like probably NO for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I have to use the Hackenburg lovers logic here. 'How can you say he is not a pro bowl caliber QB if he has never played??? Give him a chance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 54 minutes ago, MaxAF said: Seems like Jet fans are so hard up for a QB that any garbage that comes available makes it to the, go get him, list. If the Jets can't greatly improved the current QB situation then they should develop Petty and Hack. Maybe draft one of the "possibly" good QB's this year. There's not much out there right now. Petty will be in 3rd year with the Jets and Hack 2nd. Hoping Hack has a good off season and preseason to develop and see what he's got. Heck we haven't seen enough of either guy to write them off yet IMHO. This guy gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The guys a zero. For the life of me I don't know how he even got that contract from the Eagles. He was a project coming out of college and has basically never played in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Where did I say that? As soon as you said he hasn't thrown enough passes for team X. Means he must suck, stay away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 33 minutes ago, SickJetFan said: Brady benefit from knowing the defence plays before the snap sooooo not real good example you come up with Rodgers was a #1 pick so was Young and how do you know what they did in meetings? Practice, etc...you are just talking out your ass. The bold: I'd put that same question right back at you... how do you know that one QB fighting for relevancy in his career is going to take the time to teach the other QBs who want his job how to play better? I know that people function primarily out of self-preservation. Sure, you here a story here and there about a veteran QB that a young one "learned from", but what that basically means is that the veteran just wasn't a self-serving prick. Most people protect their neck. I'm talking about human nature, if that's coming from my ass... so be it, it's still far more realistic than the imaginary world of QBs helping other QBs take their job. That's the fluff that broadcasters hand naive fans when they are trying to build the story during a boring game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: The bold: I'd put that same question right back at you... how do you know that one QB fighting for relevancy in his career is going to take the time to teach the other QBs who want his job how to play better? I know that people function primarily out of self-preservation. Sure, you here a story here and there about a veteran QB that a young one "learned from", but what that basically means is that the veteran just wasn't a self-serving prick. Most people protect their neck. I'm talking about human nature, if that's coming from my ass... so be it, it's still far more realistic than the imaginary world of QBs helping other QBs take their job. That's the fluff that broadcasters hand naive fans when they are trying to build the story during a boring game. Fact: Sanchez had one - and before u blabber on about how much it did or did not help that is a fact Daniel is 6ft nothing QB who knows at this point in career he will not be face of franchise his best bet for his FAMILY is to get a contract and do what he is told ...that my friend is the real world and human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 22 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: The guys a zero. For the life of me I don't know how he even got that contract from the Eagles. He was a project coming out of college and has basically never played in the NFL. Reminds me of someone.....can't put my finger on it yet...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Integrity28 said: So, Bledsoe made Brady into the QB he is today, because Belicheat got an edge by having him as a backup? The notion that one QB makes another better is NFL story telling manifesting itself in the hopefulness of fanbases. It's a very rare circumstance when it happens, and it doesn't make that big a difference. Favre basically ignored Rodgers existence. Montana didn't tutor Young. Even Vinny didn't take time out to "teach" Chad. It's just not a thing, not at the level some folks want it to be. Find a QB who is a self-starter, who can learn on his own, who takes to his coaching, and who has the aptitude and skillset to play at this level. That QB is more responsible for how he develops than the other QBs around him. totally agree. no matter what the sport the superstars are rarely the guys who make great coaches because they pretty much never had to be motivated to train and learn the game. that's something that just can't be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Ok, 2 realistic QBs I want to see this year Hackenberg or Petty **** everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Reminds me of someone.....can't put my finger on it yet...... Assuming you're talking about Hack at least he's only been in the league a year. Chase Daniel has been in the league for 7 years and in that time he's started two games and thrown one touchdown pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Assuming you're talking about Hack at least he's only been in the league a year. Chase Daniel has been in the league for 7 years and in that time he's started two games and thrown one touchdown pass. And, even though I would mind signing Chase on the cheap, not 6'0 with an "ok" arm. Hack is 6'4 with a Howitzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Assuming you're talking about Hack at least he's only been in the league a year. Chase Daniel has been in the league for 7 years and in that time he's started two games and thrown one touchdown pass. When the Jets sign some jag vet at this time next year Hack is going to have two full years not getting into a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 There is zero upside to signing Chase ******* Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Integrity28 said: ^^^ Wants us to re-sign the guy who lost his job to Ryan Fitzpatrick, twice. Uses the argument that we cannot sign Daniels, because he lost his job to Foles. Foles just got another contract. Nobody wants Fitz. Follow the logic tree. See what I see. Oooh oooh eee eee!!!! Are you off your meds? Geno didn't lose his job to Fitz... he lost it to IK. Go take a nap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Beerfish said: When the Jets sign some jag vet at this time next year Hack is going to have two full years not getting into a game. isn't that the heart of the decision? hack or petty or someone else. imho hack has to be the starter. he should go into the otas as the starter and maintain that status at least through the start of training camp. but how does that affect the jet decision for drafting or signing a qb? i don't know. they have some options. some good and some bad. i don't think they are currently in a position to discount anyone at this point except for geno and fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeJet22 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Rangers9 said: Look, I think that Daniel has two starts in his entire NFL career and Petty has 4. So if he is signed it's to compete for the starter's job not to be given the job. The exhibition season would determine who is named starter. If we sign either Cutler or Kap then Daniel could be brought in to be his backup. In that case they probably get rid of Petty. And Hack would again be the number 3. Probably Daniel will not sign with us to be a backup. He can go to other places like probably NO for that. I don't post here much, but when I do, it's because of posts like this. You should stay away from threads regarding QBs. Maybe the Jets can resign Fitz for $11 mil? A hometown discount in your QB world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 If Daniels was a good QB one of his teams in seven years would have seen it and made something of it. Hack has been in the league a year and made clear he was a redshirt project. Cannot compare the two at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, SickJetFan said: Fact: Sanchez had one - and before u blabber on about how much it did or did not help that is a fact Daniel is 6ft nothing QB who knows at this point in career he will not be face of franchise his best bet for his FAMILY is to get a contract and do what he is told ...that my friend is the real world and human nature. I am not arguing on behalf of Daniel. I am not saying that mentorship NEVER plays a role in player development. I am however disputing the notion that Petty and Hack cannot end up successful without a veteran that teaches them... because this is the prevailing narrative, and the way you've positioned your argument. If that's not what you meant, then perhaps you should have focused on clarifying your message. Right now, you're starting to splinter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 40 minutes ago, Pac said: Are you off your meds? Geno didn't lose his job to Fitz... he lost it to IK. Go take a nap. No he didn't. That's foolish joewilly12 tripe. He was the incumbent, he was talked about as the starter. He got popped, but if he was worth a damn he would have taken the job back. He never did. He also had the chance to take it last year, when Fitz was an abomination of a QB, and Geno still couldn't unseat him. So... yea, this argument you keep delving into amounts to little more than Taco Flail Grandé, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: I am not arguing on behalf of Daniel. I am not saying that mentorship NEVER plays a role in player development. I am however disputing the notion that Petty and Hack cannot end up successful without a veteran that teaches them... because this is the prevailing narrative, and the way you've positioned your argument. If that's not what you meant, then perhaps you should have focused on clarifying your message. Right now, you're starting to splinter. I have no idea what you are arguing but you obviously didnt read my original post as I was not arguing for Daniel or even saying what the Jets should do or not do. I simply stated a hypothetical that if Jets sign someone like Daniel and do not draft a QB in 1st 2 rounds of upcoming draft then this is what I predict will happen. and I also believe that is the right thing to do in that hypothetical. Of course I am not saying anyone cant be successful without this or that of course they can. I believe the Jets must cover all bases in case they do not and it does not hurt to name a Vet who can help as number 2 and have them dress for game day. I think it is a no brainer ....but brains short supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 minute ago, SickJetFan said: I have no idea what you are arguing but you obviously didnt read my original post as I was not arguing for Daniel or even saying what the Jets should do or not do. I simply stated a hypothetical that if Jets sign someone like Daniel and do not draft a QB in 1st 2 rounds of upcoming draft then this is what I predict will happen. and I also believe that is the right thing to do in that hypothetical. Of course I am not saying anyone cant be successful without this or that of course they can. I believe the Jets must cover all bases in case they do not and it does not hurt to name a Vet who can help as number 2 and have them dress for game day. I think it is a no brainer ....but brains short supply. I was replying to swanseajack, about the notion of vet QBs having the responsibility to teach. You jumped in with the line about every little bit helps, which I dispelled, then you make some snotty remark about me talking out my ass, even though I was talking about human nature and you were talking in circles about jibberish. I still think you're talking in circles. I don't care what point you think you're making any longer... if we're going to continue, then I'm just going to torment you. But I'd rather not, since you seem like a decent guy. 3 hours ago, Integrity28 said: It is not QB #1's job to teach QB #2 and #3. That's what coaches are for... and considering that Bowles just scapegoated 7-8 different positional coaches, the lowest acceptable standard should be for coaches to teach at this point. 3 hours ago, SickJetFan said: No it is not the Job of back up Vet to teach... but every little bit helps and the Jets QB and team need all the help they can get so why the hell not look for someone who can help. Not everything is black and white and there isn't always the 1 big thing you can do to help in most cases it is all the small things. Belicheat has made a career out of it looking for all the little tiny details that help get edge like statistics, bending rules, filming :), football deflation, stealing scripts from opp locker room, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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