Jets taking closer look at Mitchell Trubisky

[UnitedWhofans]

All smoke right now

[Sperm Edwards]

52 minutes ago, slats said:

Exactly. One thing these guys have been good at when they want to: keeping things under wraps. They're advertising that they're looking at this QB, frequently viewed as the best in this year's class. They've blatantly advertised that they're open to dealing the #6 overall. IMO, they want someone to trade with them, or trade ahead of them to push another prospect they're interested in down. 

I don't know what he's truly thinking re Trubisky, but if it's the team's leak and it's a bluff to throw others off their scent (and/or get people to trade up), I wouldn't leak interest in the most over-drafted position in the game. More likely another team will seek to make a trade with the team ahead of us than with us, if they like him, too. 

If they truly want to trade down, then (even if, or particularly if, it's untrue), they should be leaking which player(s) - players that "fit perfectly" that they're totally in love with, but aren't expected to come off the board until #10-15 (at the earliest). That's how I'd advertise trading up with me is a win-win for both teams, and potentially garner more interest/offers for my original pick.

For all the talk at #6 or higher, there's no guarantee Trubisky is even getting taken in the top 20, so it's hard to say. But just because a player lasts to 20 doesn't mean, when the draft is still up to #5-8, everyone knew he'd drop so much more. Rodgers, Quinn, Menziel & Bridgewater, etc. All were supposed locks in the top 10 (and, draft day morning, many would have said were locks to go in the top 3-5). So it could be safe. 

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They worked out Hackenberg pretty extensively.  At the time they supposedly wanted to keep it quiet so the press/fans didn't jump on him as a potential Fitzpatrick replacement.  

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. — In late March, NFL agent Rich Rosa fielded a call from the Jets about setting up a workout with his client, Christian Hackenberg, the polarizing quarterback from Penn State. But the team had one non-negotiable condition: it would have to remain absolutely secret. “The word that comes to mind is intensity, just the level of intensity that they wanted to make sure it was kept extremely quiet and that nobody knew it was going to happen,” says Noel LaMontagne, Rosa’s business partner at Compass Sports Advisors. Mired in a contract stalemate with Ryan Fitzpatrick, the Jets’ front office didn’t want the New York media to anoint Hackenberg as the franchise’s lifeline. On April 10, two weeks after the initial call, general manager Mike Maccagnan, head coach Todd Bowles, offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, quarterbacks coach Kevin Patullo, and two scouts drove to State College to conduct the workout at Penn State’s indoor football facility. The Jets delegation worked out the young quarterback for an hour, testing him on the aspects of the pro-style offense that weren’t a part of the Nittany Lions’ shotgun spread offense for the past two seasons.

Yup, this only got leaked out like 10 days before the draft, but not officially confirmed till after the draft.  Pat Mahomes has had 18 on the record private work outs, and then he said he also had 1 more, but the team requested it be kept private, and he would respect the secreacy of the team, hoping it's the Jets, trade back to 12 with the Browns let them grab Trubisky get an extra 2nd, take Mahomes right in front of Arizona who is heavily linked to him, and then get your DB, and TE help in the 2nd round, and another DB, and OL prospect in the 3rd, sit Morton down with Mahomes, and design the offense with him based on his strengths the way Payton, and Brees did when they first got together in NO (I bring this up because Payton was just recently quoted as saying this is what Morton will do, and he expects him to succeed as a play caller if he is allowed to do just this), and away the Jets offense goes.

[JustInFudge]

Hopefully they're looking at the fact no underclassman with 1 year of starting experience has ever panned out in the NFL. 

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Exactly. One thing these guys have been good at when they want to: keeping things under wraps. They're advertising that they're looking at this QB, frequently viewed as the best in this year's class. They've blatantly advertised that they're open to dealing the #6 overall. IMO, they want someone to trade with them, or trade ahead of them to push another prospect they're interested in down. 

It's also been reported they've worked out Kizer and have or will Watson..I'm guessing a private workout and/or visit w/Mahomes, Webb & Peterman will be out there within the next month

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know what he's truly thinking re Trubisky, but if it's the team's leak and it's a bluff to throw others off their scent (and/or get people to trade up), I wouldn't leak interest in the most over-drafted position in the game. More likely another team will seek to make a trade with the team ahead of us than with us, if they like him, too. 

If they truly want to trade down, then (even if, or particularly if, it's untrue), they should be leaking which player(s) - players that "fit perfectly" that they're totally in love with, but aren't expected to come off the board until #10-15 (at the earliest). That's how I'd advertise trading up with me is a win-win for both teams, and potentially garner more interest/offers for my original pick.

For all the talk at #6 or higher, there's no guarantee Trubisky is even getting taken in the top 20, so it's hard to say. But just because a player lasts to 20 doesn't mean, when the draft is still up to #5-8, everyone knew he'd drop so much more. Rodgers, Quinn, Menziel & Bridgewater, etc. All were supposed locks in the top 10 (and, draft day morning, many would have said were locks to go in the top 3-5). So it could be safe. 

Interesting but In this case, because there are 3 QBs, the odds suggest that at least one of them will be there at 6. That's why it's important that the Jets have feelers in all 3 and not just focus on one. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Hopefully they're looking at the fact no underclassman with 1 year of starting experience has ever panned out in the NFL. 

Was Cam an underclassman?

[C Mart]

After some thought who is to say the Jets won't trade up into the late first if one of these QBs falls that they like.

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Was Cam an underclassman?

Cam sucks and is an example of a not finished product coming out of college but we've had this conversation before.  He won a National Championship in NJCAA before winning a National Championship with Auburn.  He had 2 years of starting experience in college before declaring. 

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Was Cam an underclassman?

Cam started more then 1 year in college, he didn't say 1 year in division 1.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

It's also been reported they've worked out Kizer and have or will Watson..I'm guessing a private workout and/or visit w/Mahomes, Webb & Peterman will be out there within the next month

 

The Jets QB situation obviously sucks, so they should be doing their due diligence regarding all the prospects. But I'd think if they were truly interested in Trubisky, they'd have the same super-secret workout they had with Hackenberg. 

[C Mart]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets QB situation obviously sucks, so they should be doing their due diligence regarding all the prospects. But I'd think if they were truly interested in Trubisky, they'd have the same super-secret workout they had with Hackenberg. 

Agree...Who is to say SF or Jax won't take a QB..Bortles is on shaky ground w/a new regime. And Chi can get out of the Glennon contract after 1 yr without much of a cap hit

[BCJet]

When everyone is going nuts about this, in addition to the smoke screen narrative, please dont forget that each of these workouts is a major learning experience and generates, notes, data, and experience for the next time you have to pick a QB.  Each of these workouts and follow up interviews simply gives the Jets organization more information to judge future QBs on which is very important, and also is extremely smart.
 

Personally I think the "philosophy of taking a QB every year" is a good one, but not if you are routinely wasting high picks on guys like Trubisky.  Yes he was accurate in college, but the biggest issue is him reading defenses and reacting to the blitz, things that take 2-3 years until he is ready.  Mac passing on a potentially elite position player for another developmental QB isnt going to help the team or even help Trubisky - how many reps would he get exactly, between McCown, him and Hack?

[Paradis]

I'm not worried. Either Mac is smarter than investing in one of this reaches, or he isn't and won't make it to 2018. 

Downside of wasting our 1st round pick aside, it's a win-win. Either whomever he drafts is a rockstar, or Mac is gone next year and someone who can make better decisions (hopefully) is in. 

[Jet Nut]

56 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They worked out Hackenberg pretty extensively.  At the time they supposedly wanted to keep it quiet so the press/fans didn't jump on him as a potential Fitzpatrick replacement.  

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. — In late March, NFL agent Rich Rosa fielded a call from the Jets about setting up a workout with his client, Christian Hackenberg, the polarizing quarterback from Penn State. But the team had one non-negotiable condition: it would have to remain absolutely secret. “The word that comes to mind is intensity, just the level of intensity that they wanted to make sure it was kept extremely quiet and that nobody knew it was going to happen,” says Noel LaMontagne, Rosa’s business partner at Compass Sports Advisors. Mired in a contract stalemate with Ryan Fitzpatrick, the Jets’ front office didn’t want the New York media to anoint Hackenberg as the franchise’s lifeline. On April 10, two weeks after the initial call, general manager Mike Maccagnan, head coach Todd Bowles, offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, quarterbacks coach Kevin Patullo, and two scouts drove to State College to conduct the workout at Penn State’s indoor football facility. The Jets delegation worked out the young quarterback for an hour, testing him on the aspects of the pro-style offense that weren’t a part of the Nittany Lions’ shotgun spread offense for the past two seasons.

I was thinking the same thing.  They kept their interest in Hack secret.  But they also were keeping Hackenberg and private workouts secret.  A little harder with Trubisky who's workouts etc are much more public

[Beerfish]

Due diligence and smoke screen.

I would be shocked it they took one at 6.  However strange things happen each draft and one of these dudes could fall to the 2nd round.

Also as others have noted it might be smoke in our hope to trade down.

Also if the Jets trade down later in the 1st round a Qb becomes more palatable,

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I'm not worried. Either Mac is smarter than investing in one of this reaches, or he isn't and won't make it to 2018. 

Downside of wasting our 1st round pick aside, it's a win-win. Either whomever he drafts is a rockstar, or Mac is gone next year and someone who can make better decisions (hopefully) is in. 

If nothing else, it's going to be interesting to see if some of your predictions come true.  

Like this one:

On 12/4/2016 at 9:25 PM, Paradis said:

I understand, Maybe my initial point wasn't clear... 

My reply to your post about top 8 -- was that Watson is not going to go to anyone in round 1. He may not even go in rounds 2 or 3... At some point he'll end up as someone's Brett Hundley, but I'm speculating the days of Watson being looked as a franchise QB, are over. 

Watson falling to the 4th round would be one hell of a story come the draft.

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

If nothing else, it's going to be interesting to see if some of your predictions come true.  

Like this one:

Watson falling to the 4th round would be one hell of a story come the draft.

Don't be shocked when he is still there when the Jets are on the clock in the 2nd round alla Geno Smith.

[peebag]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Stack em high like sandbags.

great name for movie with spaghetti western era Clint Eastwood!

[Paradis]

Just now, Warfish said:

If nothing else, it's going to be interesting to see if some of your predictions come true.  

Like this one:

Watson falling to the 4th round would be one hell of a story come the draft.

How does context taste? 

That was posted on the heels their loss to PITT, in which Watson's flaws (the same ones that have many teams not looking at him in the 1st round) were beginning to compound. It's only cause Clemson's heroic playoff surge that he's resurfaced into round 1 and 2...  Cam newton was a 4th round prospect in december. Gabbert was a 1st. 

Cherry picking doesn't look good on you. 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Don't be shocked when he is still there when the Jets are on the clock in the 2nd round alla Geno Smith.

I'd be happy with that.

If we do go Defense in Round 1 (say Lattimore at CB), being able to also have the opportunity to draft Watson in round 2 would be a gift IMO.

A sentiment clearly not shared bye everyone, of course.

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Cherry picking doesn't look good on you. 

You said it, stand by it or not as you like.

[SR24]

The sad part is, as long as they don't draft a Defensive Lineman it's a good thing lol we have so many holes 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

I'm not worried. Either Mac is smarter than investing in one of this reaches, or he isn't and won't make it to 2018. 

Downside of wasting our 1st round pick aside, it's a win-win. Either whomever he drafts is a rockstar, or Mac is gone next year and someone who can make better decisions (hopefully) is in. 

Or he could invest in one of his reaches, he's still a flop, the Jets win 3 meaningless games in their last 5 (with Josh McCown) - against Cleveland, Buffalo, and Jacksonville - to finish at 6-10. Then he still isn't fired because this is 6-win season represents irrefutable improvement, and a clear sign that the team is headed in the right direction.

 

[varjet]

2 hours ago, slats said:

The Jets QB situation obviously sucks, so they should be doing their due diligence regarding all the prospects. But I'd think if they were truly interested in Trubisky, they'd have the same super-secret workout they had with Hackenberg. 

I think the facts are different.  Hack had a PFF non-draftable grade.   The Jets had a grand plan to "steal" him at the end of Round 2 and not let someone else pick him in Round 3.  It worked.

Trubisky is a consensus top 15 draft pick.   They are supposed to be doing extensive diligence on all top 15 and top 100 players.

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Due diligence and smoke screen.

I would be shocked it they took one at 6.  However strange things happen each draft and one of these dudes could fall to the 2nd round.

Also as others have noted it might be smoke in our hope to trade down.

Also if the Jets trade down later in the 1st round a Qb becomes more palatable,

I posted a list of all the second round QBs picked in the last 10 years yesterday.  They include a range of virtual franchise QBs, starters, career back ups and flops.  At 51 there is nothing wrong if Hack was a permanent backup for the next three years who can be traded potentially or otherwise yield a comp pick.  Having him on the roster should not stop the Jets from picking another QB at 6 or trading down.

When I close my eyes it is very easy to see Trubisky developing in a year into a functional QB running a WCO based offense.  He appears to get it.   Apples to Apples, he is much further along than Hack.  He can be picked at 6 like Sanchez was at 5 or Tannehill at 8.  Bortles was 3.

Put Petty on the PS, have hack and McCown compete and Trubisky learn.  Next year its the younger 3, or likely no Petty plus another PS candidate or draft pick.   Trubisky or Hack if good could always be traded.  

If I am Macc I look at it like this:

With Watson, there are enough red flags and history of where QBs get picked such that he can justify not taking Watson.  Barring Marcus Mariota, he needs to NFL-ize his game.  If he is picked way deeper into the first round, at least this fan would give Macc a pass on not picking him.

If Macc passes on Trubisky, and he is good, it will be another O'Brien/Marino.  Every day someone comments on all of the other QBs Idzik and Macc passed up, including those because Idzik had Geno already.  At least Geno could play and win games in his rookie year.  Fans and management will not forgive him if he does not walk away with another QB that works, including Hack.

If Trubisky is there, that also means that the other superstars are not, so that makes picking MT easier.  Jonathan Allen will be there and should not be picked.  

I have not decided what the reaction would be if the Jets switched with Cleveland so they can take Trubisky.  6 to 12 is 400 pts on the Draft Value chart.  Clevelands 2nd 2nd Round pick (52) is 380 points.  That could work, the 33rd pick would really work. 

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or he could invest in one of his reaches, he's still a flop, the Jets win 3 meaningless games in their last 5 (with Josh McCown) - against Cleveland, Buffalo, and Jacksonville - to finish at 6-10. Then he still isn't fired because this is 6-win season represents irrefutable improvement, and a clear sign that the team is headed in the right direction.

 

Wait, you think the Jets can win 6 games with this roster and this coaching staff ?

[Sperm Edwards]

30 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Wait, you think the Jets can win 6 games with this roster and this coaching staff ?

As I said before, even a bad team can win 8 games. So why do you think 6 is some type of "gotcha" moment?

Try less hard.

[Adoni Beast]

If Trubisky had 2 years worth if experience with the same stats he had this year, he'd easily be the first or second pick. But, he's thrown just about the same # of passes as Wentz did.

I think the bigger question and concern is why couldn't he beat out Williams in 2015? There are reports that he did, but the coach wanted a Qb with more experience. So who knows.

I do know this kid has everything you look for. I loved derek carr and jimmy garropolo coming out of college and wanted us to draft them. Trubisky reminds me of them. He's vert accurate and careful with the football. Can extend plays with his feet and stretch the field with a strong arm.

If Mac and Bowles love him, they'll draft him if he's at 6. I still would rather hold out for '18 class though.

[CrazyCarl40]

This means literally nothing. They've also had private workouts for Watson and Kizer. Due diligence and nothing more. 

[Lupz27]

32 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

If Trubisky had 2 years worth if experience with the same stats he had this year, he'd easily be the first or second pick. But, he's thrown just about the same # of passes as Wentz did.

I think the bigger question and concern is why couldn't he beat out Williams in 2015? There are reports that he did, but the coach wanted a Qb with more experience. So who knows.

I do know this kid has everything you look for. I loved derek carr and jimmy garropolo coming out of college and wanted us to draft them. Trubisky reminds me of them. He's vert accurate and careful with the football. Can extend plays with his feet and stretch the field with a strong arm.

If Mac and Bowles love him, they'll draft him if he's at 6. I still would rather hold out for '18 class though.

All the Trubisky lovers are gonna find out the hard way that Mitchell doesn't have the strong arm throws for the NFL, yeah they look great against slower college defenses, but when he doesn't drive it home down the field in the NFL it's going to be a horror show for him, his deep seam, and deep out balls don't drive home, they die at the end, and the results will be mid field picks, and jumped route pick 6's, Mitchell might be good one day in this league, but he is AT LEAST 1 full year away from being able to start, and not be a liability to his team.  With only 13 games of experience, and this big development curve as the Jets you can't justify picking him at 6 IMO.

[C Mart]

Albert Breer‏ @AlbertBreer 4 minutes ago

Jets on QB circuit. Previously worked out DeShaun Watson, DeShone Kizer. Private workouts with Pat Mahomes and Davis Webb in the works, too

[Tinstar]

7 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

All the Trubisky lovers are gonna find out the hard way that Mitchell doesn't have the strong arm throws for the NFL, yeah they look great against slower college defenses, but when he doesn't drive it home down the field in the NFL it's going to be a horror show for him, his deep seam, and deep out balls don't drive home, they die at the end, and the results will be mid field picks, and jumped route pick 6's, Mitchell might be good one day in this league, but he is AT LEAST 1 full year away from being able to start, and not be a liability to his team.  With only 13 games of experience, and this big development curve as the Jets you can't justify picking him at 6 IMO.

You might get more love for your preferred QB if you would stop trying to knock the others in an effort to make your guy's case .  Probably not thou .

[varjet]

59 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

If Trubisky had 2 years worth if experience with the same stats he had this year, he'd easily be the first or second pick. But, he's thrown just about the same # of passes as Wentz did.

I think the bigger question and concern is why couldn't he beat out Williams in 2015? There are reports that he did, but the coach wanted a Qb with more experience. So who knows.

I do know this kid has everything you look for. I loved derek carr and jimmy garropolo coming out of college and wanted us to draft them. Trubisky reminds me of them. He's vert accurate and careful with the football. Can extend plays with his feet and stretch the field with a strong arm.

If Mac and Bowles love him, they'll draft him if he's at 6. I still would rather hold out for '18 class though.

As bad as the Jets' roster looks, and it looks very bad, I don't think that we can pass up a potential starting QB with the hope of one next year.  If the Jets are picking top 3 next year, and they draft Trubisky this year, they can always trade Trubisky.  Someone will take him if he looks good.

When you look at the drafts of the last 10 years, QBs picked after 5 are not necessarily sure things.  Look at where Wentz got picked last year.   If you need a QB, you need to take one that could work.  If the Jets traded down, Trubisky would not be there.

Obviously, Macc never thought he would be picking this high in 2017 so as to potentially undermine his Hack pick.  This could play out well-play Hack mostly in preseason, let Trubisky develop, and then Hack could be moved in 2018 for perhaps a higher pick than was used to pick him.

I am betting that Trubisky is not there at 6, so this discussion becomes moot.  To me, that would be consistent with the drafts of the last 10 years.

[Lupz27]

26 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

You might get more love for your preferred QB if you would stop trying to knock the others in an effort to make your guy's case .  Probably not thou .

I wouldn't take either QB at 6, but if I had to yes I'd choose Mahomes.

[Adoni Beast]

41 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

All the Trubisky lovers are gonna find out the hard way that Mitchell doesn't have the strong arm throws for the NFL, yeah they look great against slower college defenses, but when he doesn't drive it home down the field in the NFL it's going to be a horror show for him, his deep seam, and deep out balls don't drive home, they die at the end, and the results will be mid field picks, and jumped route pick 6's, Mitchell might be good one day in this league, but he is AT LEAST 1 full year away from being able to start, and not be a liability to his team.  With only 13 games of experience, and this big development curve as the Jets you can't justify picking him at 6 IMO.

I agree, pass on Trubisky at 6, and he would probably need a year to learn. I do like this upside, but I love next years class a lot. 

Mahomes worries me a lot. But, you've been pretty clutch with past draft dudes before. 

[Adoni Beast]

31 minutes ago, varjet said:

As bad as the Jets' roster looks, and it looks very bad, I don't think that we can pass up a potential starting QB with the hope of one next year.  If the Jets are picking top 3 next year, and they draft Trubisky this year, they can always trade Trubisky.  Someone will take him if he looks good.

When you look at the drafts of the last 10 years, QBs picked after 5 are not necessarily sure things.  Look at where Wentz got picked last year.   If you need a QB, you need to take one that could work.  If the Jets traded down, Trubisky would not be there.

Obviously, Macc never thought he would be picking this high in 2017 so as to potentially undermine his Hack pick.  This could play out well-play Hack mostly in preseason, let Trubisky develop, and then Hack could be moved in 2018 for perhaps a higher pick than was used to pick him.

I am betting that Trubisky is not there at 6, so this discussion becomes moot.  To me, that would be consistent with the drafts of the last 10 years.

I love the idea of drafting any QB we like until we know who are guy is with the highest ceiling. Hack, Trubisky this year, someone in 2018. If we end up with two good ones, like you said trade whoever you like less than the other. You'll get more back than you gave up.