Blaming Mac for the Hack Pick is dumb.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

 

people that hijack threads with animated threads are lame.


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[Dunnie]

point proven


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[varjet]

Hack's numbers and freshman year were too tempting not to spend a second round pick on.   

[glenn31]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

If I were a betting man, I'd have to side with you, but I'm still holding out hope. I think that's what it is. 

So in other words, your brain, the part of you that processes & analyzes data & draws conclusions leans towards Hack ultimately being a Hack. Your heart, the part of you that follows the brain's orders and pumps blood throughout your circulatory system, still believes Hack can be something in this league.

Your brain is a million times more capable of making a proper decision. 10 times out of 10 it should always trump the heart. Unless you're a woman. Then you have no control over it. 

[RoadFan]

13 hours ago, C Mart said:

According to YOU!  So when would you have drafted him?

According to some, he was "undraftable."

These same conversations get old...

[hokiejetfan92]

2 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Wait, what?  This team is a dumpster fire atm.  

Okay, but if the team is a dumpster fire right now, what was the state of the team when NY Jets fans were paying for an airplane to fly over the jets facility to fire the current GM?

Or when the supposed starting qb is forced into preseason action in the 3rd quarter of a pre season game with the back up o-line in because the GM wanted the HC to show that no job was given? I think things have improved, if slightly.

[LIJetsFan]

As flawed and Rex was, and he was flawed, and as annoying to listen to be became near the end, he was still superior to our current HC.  Since our current HC isn't on his way out of the door, I'll take then over now as the superior outlook for the team.  

[JetFaninMI]

13 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This jagaloon is batting 1.000 as a thread starter.

My new favorite word. Sums it up quite nicely.

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, glenn31 said:

So in other words, your brain, the part of you that processes & analyzes data & draws conclusions leans towards Hack ultimately being a Hack. Your heart, the part of you that follows the brain's orders and pumps blood throughout your circulatory system, still believes Hack can be something in this league.

That would be correct, yes.

And I don't mind sh*tting on the pick, just don't think it should be dead and buried yet.

...yet

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

I admit it, it is all my fault. All of the muck that is the NY Jets.

 

 

 

it's the russians.

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

It's like blaming whoever the hell took Geno for taking him. The New York Jets don't have a QB. They haven't had a real "prospect" since Sanchez.  So when a Geno falls to round 2 or a Hack is available in rd 2....you roll the damn dice. And anyone who watches college football will tell you that the guys they thought were sure fire NFL starters are dead wrong more often then they are not. Of course the flip side of that is any idiot can predict someone will not work out. Odds are always in their favor there. And that's the rub....QB scouting isn't a science. It's a position in college that is so reliant on the talent and scheme around them that being able to separate the next Arron Rodgers from the next Aaron Murray isn't as simple as people make it out to be. It's almost done entirely on gut instincts after looking at accuracy and throwing mechanics and arm strength. You can't get in these kids heads with 2 or 3 or 4 interviews and you can't measure their heart with any metric. They may dazzle you on the white board but then you could just as easily end up with Brandon Weeden instead of Andrew Luck. The position is reliant on intangibles more than any other. So if you want to nitpick about a selection, fine, you are no different from every other internet expert. I read that 2nd round QBs have about a 25-30% chance of being a successful starter on some basic analytics I read a while back breaking down success rates by position/round.  We know the odds. We still have to take the shot. If my GM wasn't actively looking at all scenarios to land a QB, I'd be way more pissed than if he missed on a bunch of them in a row. So no I don't want Macc's head on a pike for selecting Hack. I liked the pick in the 2nd round. Other teams had him slotted ahead of our 3rd.  You can debate all you want about Hack as a player, Franklin's failures to accommodate his offense to fit his QB,the state of the PSU OL, whatever...Most QBs take years to develop. 3-5 is my min/max. I won't be shocked to see Hack revert to form and I won't be shocked to see him fail. I'd expect them to take a shot on Kizer or Mahomes if they are hanging around in the 2nd round. And if they do, I'd hope that they put him on the Hack redshirt plan too. Developmental QBs need that time to adjust.  Just don't carry 4 QBs and ignore them for an entire season. That's what this QB crop is - developmental. All of em. And if we can somehow land a blue chip prospect in next years draft...all the better. We'll have 2 red chip prospects to trade away in Hack/Kizer or Hack/Mahomes assuming we can get Hack to play this year and showcase his ability and put a few great outings on tape. (hard fought losses of course).  I don't expect it will happen, as too many teams are desperate for QBs that they will likely reach for these guys in rd 1 or jump us to get them in rd 2.....which is fine by me...just saying IF they are there, I'd expect the Jets to try to get one. Assuming/hoping we don't take one at 6.

Here is that article I mentioned. It's worth a read for discussion points anyway.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

The premise is they looked at the draft history and put the litmus test of success for a player as the player being a starter for more years than not (+.500) over their career.

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

imo you're right to a point.  imagine the guy who took ryan leaf or jamarcus russell.  those gm's should be blamed and rightly so.  same thing with manziel.  this is because those guys were all so terribly flawed that they really shouldn't have been picked, at least where they were.  as for hack and mac, the jets needed a qb and hack seemed to fit mac's idea of where he should be drafted.  if he works out, mac is a hero.

[Beerfish]

51 minutes ago, rangerous said:

imo you're right to a point.  imagine the guy who took ryan leaf or jamarcus russell.  those gm's should be blamed and rightly so.  same thing with manziel.  this is because those guys were all so terribly flawed that they really shouldn't have been picked, at least where they were.  as for hack and mac, the jets needed a qb and hack seemed to fit mac's idea of where he should be drafted.  if he works out, mac is a hero.

Jamarcus russel had a very good last year in college and had one of the best pro days ever.  Hack was trending downwards from his 1st year in college.  It was an awful pick and unless maccagnan comes up huge this draft and hits homers with his 1st and 2nd rounders he needs to be looked at for replacement.

[CanadienJetsFan]

Can we see Hackenberg play before we crucify Macc? 

[varjet]

20 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Can we see Hackenberg play before we crucify Macc? 

We are going to see him play.  If the Jets are smart they will feature Hack in the off season.  McCown knows how to play football (to the best of his ability and gets hurt too much.   If McCown starts day 1, fine, but don't let him get all the real practice and preseason game good reps.  If anything they should alternate with the OL1.

What they absolutely, absolutely need to do is get some practice/practice squad bodies at QB.  No one that they want on the roster should be playing QB in the 4th quarter of preseason games.  Not only does it give you no idea of what they can do, but there are too many injuries during that junk time.

[Beerfish]

25 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Can we see Hackenberg play before we crucify Macc? 

We've seen him play in two awful ex games.  And that is also kind of the point, if he can't play with the dreck we have had at qb the last year and this then he obviously sucks.

[nicg4360]

It comes off as excuses but it's reality he was a 4th string qb with no time with starters. Call it what you want but he had no time with starters and the worst part was CS admitted they were not going to work on his mechanics till the off season. Part of hacks "suckage" had nothing to do with him. The coaches should not have outright admitted to spending no time with hack. All the attention was on getting petty acquainted with the starters and he did not even have chemistry with them except Robby Anderson. I may be in left field here but it sounds like the jets had no interest in have in helping him or playing him in 2016.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[sirlancemehlot]

8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

???????????????

Geno Smith was projected to be a 1st round pick that year. There were some beat writers that wrote for the Kansas City Chiefs that were explaining why the Chiefs should take Geno with the 1st overall pick in the 2013 draft. I dont remember anyone writing about taking Hack in the 1st round, let alone the 1st pick in the draft (Could have happened, but it wasnt at all common like with Smith). With that said, when Geno was taken in the 2nd round it was considered as tremendous value given that no one saw the Jets passing on him twice in the 1st round as well as the Bills drafting EJ before Geno. Many people looked at the Jets risk of passing on Geno twice and still getting their man in the 2nd round gave the Jets the title of having the best 2nd round that year. 

Hackenberg wasnt considered a 1st round pick, he wasnt considered a 2nd round pick, he wasnt considered the 4th best QB in the class (being the 4th QB taken in the draft). None of that occurred. When the Jets drafted Hack no one looked at that as a tremendous value pick. Everyone, including Jets fans considered that a massive reach at best and a poor selection at worse. No one thought that Hack was a 1st round pick that surprisingly got passed on in the 1st round with guys like Goff/Wentz oddly being drafted before him. Macc rolled the dice alright, but that situation was not similar to Geno Smith. 

Shhh...just go with it man...the draft pick is not the GM's fault.  Just go with it.  This is how Buddhists are made.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

I think it was a bad pick based on Hack's play in the Big Ten (three years of tape), I have seen him play vs Ohio State and it was bad, regularly missing wide open receivers (just like practice), 58% completion rate in his best year, 56% for his career, 4th round or lower IMHO but I am not a scout and hope Hack is a great QB now that he is a Jet...

The OP did make an interesting point on why Mac should not be be blamed since the Jets need a QB and they need to just "roll the damn dice" and try to find a QB, but then did not want the Jets to draft a QB at 6, to me that is the point; I would not blame Mac for Hack if he takes a QB at 6 this year since that would align with just "roll the damn dice" 

[Lil Woody]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

I think it was a bad pick based on Hack's play in the Big Ten (three years of tape), I have seen him play vs Ohio State and it was bad, regularly missing wide open receivers (just like practice), 58% completion rate in his best year, 56% for his career, 4th round or lower IMHO but I am not a scout and hope Hack is a great QB now that he is a Jet...

The OP did make an interesting point on why Mac should not be be blamed since the Jets need a QB and they need to just "roll the damn dice" and try to find a QB, but then did not want the Jets to draft a QB at 6, to me that is the point; I would not blame Mac for Hack if he takes a QB at 6 this year since that would align with just "roll the damn dice" 

That's fair. I mean I didn't spell out all the subtle stuff for folks between the lines. Most people, like yourself, get the point well enough though. Yes I'd understand taking a QB at 6. But that would be wildly overreaching and a mistake imo. As for Hack, I watched him as well.  I was not suped impressed like I was in his rookie year, but I also understood what was going on at PSU at the time. Understanding he has his flaws, but in that draft everyone did.  Wentz was the most ready and the only one worth a 1st rounder imo. Even that was a major gamble considering where he played and who he played against. Kid had all the intangibles thouhg, so the pick was fair.  Goff never beat a good team in his college career. Lynch was all hype from the start, and his tape didn't match expectations. That said I would have taken either over Hack, but not until the 2nd round.  Just like this year, there is not a QB worth a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't be shocked to see one go there anyway based on it being a critical position.  Then after that I wouldn't bother with any of them until the 2nd round.  Watson to me is a 3rd or 4th rounder, but he'll get taken in the 1st or 2nd. The only difference for fans is if they are a fan of the player or not. If you are a fan, he's the best QB in the draft.  If you aren't he's a erratic passer who will lead the league in INTs. Personally, I love his intangibles, but his game is seriously flawed as some of his deep balls would make Fitz laugh, and his ball placement on intermediate routes are even worse than Geno's. The sad fact is you have to adjust for positional relevanxce. And people bitching about taking QBs with mid round picks are failing to see how the draft has been operating for years.  You either take the shots or you don't. If you don't you won't ever hit on them. But taking a QB in rd 2 or 3 won't set your franchise back like passing on a blue chip talent in the early 1st round for a QB with red flags will.  You can overcome missing on a 2nd rounder fairly easily. They cost next to nothing in terms of salary and may provide you with a solid backup or trade bait later. Maybe you miss out on that 1st round guard that dropped to you in the 2nd, but you don't have a QB, so who the hell cares?

[j4jets]

On 3/31/2017 at 7:33 PM, Lil Woody said:

It's like blaming whoever the hell took Geno for taking him. The New York Jets don't have a QB. They haven't had a real "prospect" since Sanchez.  So when a Geno falls to round 2 or a Hack is available in rd 2....you roll the damn dice. And anyone who watches college football will tell you that the guys they thought were sure fire NFL starters are dead wrong more often then they are not. Of course the flip side of that is any idiot can predict someone will not work out. Odds are always in their favor there. And that's the rub....QB scouting isn't a science. It's a position in college that is so reliant on the talent and scheme around them that being able to separate the next Arron Rodgers from the next Aaron Murray isn't as simple as people make it out to be. It's almost done entirely on gut instincts after looking at accuracy and throwing mechanics and arm strength. You can't get in these kids heads with 2 or 3 or 4 interviews and you can't measure their heart with any metric. They may dazzle you on the white board but then you could just as easily end up with Brandon Weeden instead of Andrew Luck. The position is reliant on intangibles more than any other. So if you want to nitpick about a selection, fine, you are no different from every other internet expert. I read that 2nd round QBs have about a 25-30% chance of being a successful starter on some basic analytics I read a while back breaking down success rates by position/round.  We know the odds. We still have to take the shot. If my GM wasn't actively looking at all scenarios to land a QB, I'd be way more pissed than if he missed on a bunch of them in a row. So no I don't want Macc's head on a pike for selecting Hack. I liked the pick in the 2nd round. Other teams had him slotted ahead of our 3rd.  You can debate all you want about Hack as a player, Franklin's failures to accommodate his offense to fit his QB,the state of the PSU OL, whatever...Most QBs take years to develop. 3-5 is my min/max. I won't be shocked to see Hack revert to form and I won't be shocked to see him fail. I'd expect them to take a shot on Kizer or Mahomes if they are hanging around in the 2nd round. And if they do, I'd hope that they put him on the Hack redshirt plan too. Developmental QBs need that time to adjust.  Just don't carry 4 QBs and ignore them for an entire season. That's what this QB crop is - developmental. All of em. And if we can somehow land a blue chip prospect in next years draft...all the better. We'll have 2 red chip prospects to trade away in Hack/Kizer or Hack/Mahomes assuming we can get Hack to play this year and showcase his ability and put a few great outings on tape. (hard fought losses of course).  I don't expect it will happen, as too many teams are desperate for QBs that they will likely reach for these guys in rd 1 or jump us to get them in rd 2.....which is fine by me...just saying IF they are there, I'd expect the Jets to try to get one. Assuming/hoping we don't take one at 6.

Here is that article I mentioned. It's worth a read for discussion points anyway.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

The premise is they looked at the draft history and put the litmus test of success for a player as the player being a starter for more years than not (+.500) over their career.

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

TL:DR

Hack had a 4th round grade we picked in the 2nd. If he was even a 3rd rounder, it would be ok. 

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Shhh...just go with it man...the draft pick is not the GM's fault.  Just go with it.  This is how Buddhists are made.

As a Buddhist I sense a little sarcasm here!!!   

[thadude]

12 hours ago, HessStation said:

Are you just playing the odds that Hack will most likely suck, given the percentages? Bc I don't know how anyone could possibly be as confident as you, that he's going to autosuck. He's basically a supreme talent with the size, arm, work ethic you want. Are you saying it's impossible for a young QB to improve his accuracy? I'm not super confident he's going to be good. But man, give the freaking kid a chance first. He was most likely going in third round if the Jets didn't take him.

"Super-talented?"  Why because hack put up high school stats facing doughy Amish kids who might run a 5.5 40 in Northeast PA?

 

Even Hack said it himself in his Qb Camp with Gruden "duh der the players in college were so much betterer den in high school"

 

 

[HessStation]

3 minutes ago, thadude said:

"Super-talented?"  Why because hack put up high school stats facing doughy Amish kids who might run a 5.5 40 in Northeast PA?

 

Even Hack said it himself in his Qb Camp with Gruden "duh der the players in college were so much betterer den in high school"

 

 

yeah he checks most of the boxes besides touch and accuracy. I'm being objective not biased. I didn't/haven't really liked the pick but I'm giving him a chance. That's bout the difference.

just admit you don't know either. Mmmk 

[thadude]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

yeah he checks most of the boxes besides touch and accuracy. I'm being objective not biased. I didn't/haven't really liked the pick but I'm giving him a chance. That's bout the difference.

just admit you don't know either. Mmmk 

Hack BLOWS

[rangerous]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jamarcus russel had a very good last year in college and had one of the best pro days ever.  Hack was trending downwards from his 1st year in college.  It was an awful pick and unless maccagnan comes up huge this draft and hits homers with his 1st and 2nd rounders he needs to be looked at for replacement.

i think my point wasn't about physical talent or accuracy or anything.  it was more about character and what's between the ears. everyone is entitled to their own opinion about hack because has yet to set his foot on the field.  right now i prefer to think that mac knows what he's doing and hack will turn out to be good.  i also agree that the jets need to get some good players in rounds 1-3.  i know many people predict them to go 2-14 or so and finish again with a top 6 pick but that is not assured.  there are just too many variables unless they truly do a fold for darnold..

[Pcola]

First, I don't blame Macc for taking a shot at a QB in the second round.  We have garbage at the position and we had no viable solution.

What you can blame Macc for is taking a 6th or 7th round prospect at 51.  And taking him over Another prospect that led his team to the best record in his conference.  He either cannot scout QBs or he allowed a personal bias to rationalize disregarding his draft board.  Either way, these type of moves cause GMs to get fired.

And for all the excuses about Hack being "stuck" behind three other QBs, this is bull crap.  He showed nothing in rookie camp or at OTAs while Fitz was unsigned.  

Petty got hurt in week 4 preseason, and just when Petty was getting healthy, Geno went on IR. So essentially he as 3rd string all season until week 17.

Wentz was third string in preseason and won the starting job so I'm not really sure why everyone is giving this organization and player a pass.  

As a team, they make their own luck, and when they make stupid mistakes like this, the luck is all bad.

Macc shouldn't be allowed to make another QB pick.  If it's not taking Darnold with the #1 pick next April (a no brainer) than he should be forced to develop the weak prospects he keeps over drafting.

[Scott Dierking]

15 hours ago, thadude said:

"Super-talented?"  Why because hack put up high school stats facing doughy Amish kids who might run a 5.5 40 in Northeast PA?

 

Even Hack said it himself in his Qb Camp with Gruden "duh der the players in college were so much betterer den in high school"

 

 

That would be an interesting comment, if he had gone to high school in PA.

You continue to prove that what you don't know about the player is far greater than what you do know. But please keep making your predictions, they are so entertaining and insightful.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

That would be an interesting comment, if he had gone to high school in PA.

You continue to prove that what you don't know about the player is far greater than what you do know. But please keep making your predictions, they are so entertaining and insightful.

I believe Hack went one of those Military Football-Prep schools where the lines average 300 lbs and everyone plans DI.