Bill Polian and Jeff Saturday take on the Jets "tanking"

[Marshmello]

 

I can't stand Adam Schefter.  I thought Polian and Saturday did a good job on breaking down the Jets recent moves and not automatically bash them.

[JohnnyLV]

Polian has consistently defended the Jets recent moves as have I. They are big names, but they were not big time players or contributors long term

[TuscanyTile2]

Very good discussion in that video.  Thanks for posting!   Btw it looks like we signed Denard Robinson at RB.  If that's the former Michigan QB, it's an interesting signing to me.  I remember he was  a pretty good runner (he definitely didn't seem like he could be an NFL QB, btw - at best a Brad Smith type).

[T0mShane]

Pretty fun how Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

[Joejet]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

The Revis signing was orchestrated by Woody as a way to get back at Kraft, getting Marshall worked for a couple of years but it was time to move on, in my opinion the Harris signing was a little high but reward for leadership and a good Jet career, Decker was signed by Idzik, the Folk contract was not bad, Gilchrist and Skrine were both bad signings.  It seems like I am forgetting someone but I don't believe it's as bad as you are trying to make it.  I realize Skrine is still here but is a bad signing as was Fitz for 12 million.  Mac has made some good moves as well as some really bad moves which shouldn't be a huge surprise for someone in his first role as GM.  I think he is growing in the job and we need to take a step back and see how this long awaited rebuild takes shape.

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Joejet said:

The Revis signing was orchestrated by Woody as a way to get back at Kraft, getting Marshall worked for a couple of years but it was time to move on, in my opinion the Harris signing was a little high but reward for leadership and a good Jet career, Decker was signed by Idzik, the Folk contract was not bad, Gilchrist and Skrine were both bad signings.  It seems like I am forgetting someone but I don't believe it's as bad as you are trying to make it.  I realize Skrine is still here but is a bad signing as was Fitz for 12 million.  Mac has made some good moves as well as some really bad moves which shouldn't be a huge surprise for someone in his first role as GM.  I think he is growing in the job and we need to take a step back and see how this long awaited rebuild takes shape.

What are the good moves?

[nicg4360]

What are the good moves?

A couple at the top of my head would be the James Carpenter signing and the trade that brought Marshall here with the season he had in '15 it was worth it for what we gave.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[rangerous]

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What are the good moves?

i didn't see many people complaining about revis, fitz, marshall, gilchrist, skrine, et al during and after the 2015 season. and i didn't hear many complaining about signing clady, forte, and re-signing fitz and wilk before the 2016 season. in hindsight things could've turned out differently but that was then and this is now. cleaning out the vets for this season is not a bad move.

[The Crusher]

50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What are the good moves?

The ones like Jagger. 

[LionelRichie]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

"too big for him" is the perfect quote re: Maccagnan.  

Even if some of the moves scream panic or being in over his head (i.e. Wilkerson), the alarming thing is the draft picks.   If nothing else Macc was brought here to draft and 3 years into the journey the talent on this team is piss poor.  There is no one in Jetsland rooting more for Hack than Maccagnan.  

Heading into year 3 with McCown, Petty, and Hackenburg at the most important position in professional sports is inexcusable.    

[whodeawhodat]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

What are the good moves?

by far a large portion of the contracts he issued had outs after 2 years with very little cap hit.  That is what we are seeing today.  These players werent producing and/or werent going to get us to the promised land.  he cut bait and it wont hurt us cap wise.  If we have a shot at a long term solution at QB in the draft next year with all that cap room to get some vets, i would say it is a great start.

[ZachEY]

58 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i didn't hear many complaining about signing clady, forte, and re-signing fitz

O rly?

[Ghost]

I don't think Schefter said anything out of line. My personal opinion is this: I like what we did this off-season. We were going to originally win 4-6 games had we not cut all those vets. Now we are going in full tank mode and doing this the right way. 

 

I think Bowles and Mac are gone after this upcoming season. Woody might assure them their job in the off-season but this won't last long. It's going to be an atrocious season and someone has to get blamed. No way we win 2 games and Bowles does not get fired. 

 

I do believe this will be an attractable destination in 2018. Having a Top 2 pick, 70+ million in cap space, + New York is going to catch the eye of an upcoming coach. Or maybe I'm crazy. 

[Azuma]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

And he doesn't necessarily have a big snoz at that. I guess you can say the nose doesn't know ? 

[MDL_JET]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What are the good moves?

Convincing Woody we need to blow this up and build through the draft.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Convincing Woody we need to blow this up and build through the draft.

Which kicked off with doubling down at the most important position in today's NFL... Safety!

[Beerfish]

If you are a poor team all moves will be met with suspicion and derision, if you are a good team all moves are met with applause and credit.

The Jets have been poor so they get taken to task over these moves by some.  Meanwhile within about a years time the pats gave away chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, two perceived players in their prime and Beli and the boys are patted on the back for 'knowing when' to move players out.

[Adoni Beast]

Theres not one player that was cut or traded this year that I wish we kept. Only surprising part was that they didn't cut Harris back in the winter. But, that doesn't really have much effect on our season either way.

I could see the argument to keep Marshall and Decker to help groom Hackenberg. I know they tried to keep Marshall, but he didn't want to restructure, and wanted to play for a contender. Also, the argument agains that is even if they kept Marshall this year, he would have left for a contender for 2018. In that case, might as well let the receivers who they have a long term investment in play and develop together.

With those vets we're 5-11. Without them we're 2-14...and I'd much rather be 2-14 going into a draft with potentially good QB prospects, until we actually have one for certain.  

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

i didn't see many people complaining about revis, fitz, marshall, gilchrist, skrine, et al during and after the 2015 season. and i didn't hear many complaining about signing clady, forte, and re-signing fitz and wilk before the 2016 season.

Are you ******* deaf?

49 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

by far a large portion of the contracts he issued had outs after 2 years with very little cap hit.  That is what we are seeing today.  These players werent producing and/or werent going to get us to the promised land.  he cut bait and it wont hurt us cap wise.  If we have a shot at a long term solution at QB in the draft next year with all that cap room to get some vets, i would say it is a great start.

So, we are supposed to applaud the fact that he gave us such a sh*tty roster that we are in position to tank for #1 overall?  You can't make this sh*t up.

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I could see the argument to keep Marshall and Decker to help groom Hackenberg. I know they tried to keep Marshall, but he didn't want to restructure, and wanted to play for a contender.

That alone is worth firing him.  Marshall was a dog.  Quit on the team, fought with his teammates, yaps to the press, falls in love with one QB to the detriment of th others, tells the coach who to start, dropped a sh*tload of passes and had a horrific catch rate.  That is the guy you want to keep?  He was literally #1 on the must cut parade.  If you said he tried to restructure Harris or Mangold I would say okay.  Marshall?  **** that. 

[varjet]

Mac is a good guy to have in your organization.  The Jets need a bigger football director other than Woody.  Woody acts like the Jets Coughlin   I would rather have Coughlin  

People are saying that the Jets beat the Jags this year   I am not too sure about that   Our offense will struggle to do anything against them  

 

[whodeawhodat]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are you ******* deaf?

So, we are supposed to applaud the fact that he gave us such a sh*tty roster that we are in position to tank for #1 overall?  You can't make this sh*t up.

That alone is worth firing him.  Marshall was a dog.  Quit on the team, fought with his teammates, yaps to the press, falls in love with one QB to the detriment of th others, tells the coach who to start, dropped a sh*tload of passes and had a horrific catch rate.  That is the guy you want to keep?  He was literally #1 on the must cut parade.  If you said he tried to restructure Harris or Mangold I would say okay.  Marshall?  **** that. 

Applaud the effort that had us on the brink of the playoffs 2 years ago and is now able to be rebuilt with very little in the way of ramifications for putting that team together. A clean slate with as good a chance as anyone in the league to draft that franchise QB that WE ALL long for.  I'm looking for a silver lining here in a season where we are going to get our sh*t pushed every sunday and twice by the cheatriots...  I still do like Petty so maybe they give me some joy in watching my team this year but I am not getting my hopes up for anything other than young players development.

[KRL]

Mature, level headed analysis by Polian & Saturday.  Shocked that ESPN actually allowed it on the air

because they usually go for the nonsensical responses

[Skeptable]

Just now, KRL said:

Mature, level headed analysis by Polian & Saturday.  Shocked that ESPN actually allowed it on the air

because they usually go for the nonsensical responses

Because they were guests they let it fly... 

[jetspenguin]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

nothing to do with the point...and the points made about over paid vets needing to go was valid. If you hav some kind of crystal ball that told you that revis' play was going to fall off a cliff and marshall wouldnt even make it 2 years and decker would be hurt so much and well you get the point....all of them needed to go and he made the right decision to cut the and not just let them hang around and take up space a younger player should be in. Give it a rest, we know u hate them.You dont have to make every post about every subject the exact same answer. You are like an album with only one song. 

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

i didn't see many people complaining about revis, fitz, marshall, gilchrist, skrine, et al during and after the 2015 season. and i didn't hear many complaining about signing clady, forte, and re-signing fitz and wilk before the 2016 season. in hindsight things could've turned out differently but that was then and this is now. cleaning out the vets for this season is not a bad move.

THANK YOU!!! we got all these miracle fortune tellers in here all of the sudden but they have short memories. 

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

 You are like an album with only one song. 

Tom Shane is the Starland Vocal Band of Jetnation.

[#27TheDominator]

22 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

Applaud the effort that had us on the brink of the playoffs 2 years ago and is now able to be rebuilt with very little in the way of ramifications for putting that team together. A clean slate with as good a chance as anyone in the league to draft that franchise QB that WE ALL long for.  I'm looking for a silver lining here in a season where we are going to get our sh*t pushed every sunday and twice by the cheatriots...  I still do like Petty so maybe they give me some joy in watching my team this year but I am not getting my hopes up for anything other than young players development.

"Brink of the playoffs"?  Seriously?  You seem to be forgetting that they took over with a clean slate.  

[jetspenguin]

1 hour ago, whodeawhodat said:

by far a large portion of the contracts he issued had outs after 2 years with very little cap hit.  That is what we are seeing today.  These players werent producing and/or werent going to get us to the promised land.  he cut bait and it wont hurt us cap wise.  If we have a shot at a long term solution at QB in the draft next year with all that cap room to get some vets, i would say it is a great start.

I'd say this is the most understated and underrated thing mentioned about Mac...I personally love the way he structures a lot of the contracts. There is usually a way to get out of it early if it doesnt work out. This is the NFL and some of these guys will get hurt, get lazy or get old. It happens but so far unless I am forgetting some..there are very few contracts that he give out that are uncuttable within a few years. 

[whodeawhodat]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

"Brink of the playoffs"?  Seriously?  You seem to be forgetting that they took over with a clean slate.  

Proves my point even better. Took over a team that drafted sh*t(thanks idzik) and had a lot of cap space(again thanks idzik).  He made a couple of trades spent cap money and yes, we almost made the playoffs.  10-6 will usually get you in, that year it didnt.

 

[insert strength of schedule complaint here from negative jet fan]

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

THANK YOU!!! we got all these miracle fortune tellers in here all of the sudden but they have short memories. 

Were you here?  The only people with short memories are the ones thinking we were all happy about those signings.  I did not like giving Harris that huge extension, HATED signing Cromartie for all that money (turned out they could cut him with no dead money,. but they had already paid him three years salary for 2015).  

I defended the Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist signings as necessary with what they put on the field in 2014, but that only means tons of guys were complaining.

Very few liked resigning Fitzpatrick in 2016.  People complained in 2015. They could have saved the fifth and signed Tyrod Taylor for 3 years for what they paid Fitzpatrick in 2015. Clady was decried as an injury prone waste and the Wilkerson deal was puzzling in its scope and insulted around here from day 1.  Forte is ancient and I was one of the only guys that liked the idea (receiving RB) but thought it was dumb to bring him in and then bring Powell (who they paid 3 times more than he was worth) back.

There is a search feature.  Don't try to tell us what we ******* complained about.  We remember.   

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

Proves my point even better. Took over a team that drafted sh*t(thanks idzik) and had a lot of cap space(again thanks idzik).  He made a couple of trades spent cap money and yes, we almost made the playoffs.  10-6 will usually get you in, that year it didnt.

 

[insert strength of schedule complaint here from negative jet fan]

He spent ALL the money and now in year three we have a WORSE roster.  Who could complain?  We almost made the playoffs two years ago! Strength of schedule be damned!

[jetspenguin]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Were you here?  The only people with short memories are the ones thinking we were all happy about those signings.  I did not like giving Harris that huge extension, HATED signing Cromartie for all that money (turned out they could cut him with no dead money,. but they had already paid him three years salary for 2015).  

I defended the Revis, Skrine and Gilchrist signings as necessary with what they put on the field in 2014, but that only means tons of guys were complaining.

Very few liked resigning Fitzpatrick in 2016.  People complained in 2015. They could have saved the fifth and signed Tyrod Taylor for 3 years for what they paid Fitzpatrick in 2015. Clady was decried as an injury prone waste and the Wilkerson deal was puzzling in its scope and insulted around here from day 1.  Forte is ancient and I was one of the only guys that liked the idea (receiving RB) but thought it was dumb to bring him in and then bring Powell (who they paid 3 times more than he was worth) back.

There is a search feature.  Don't try to tell us what we ******* complained about.  We remember.   

lol I know you would have something to say. You see a low post count and you do the idiot analysis and think I just got here. I have been a Jets fan since before you were born and frequented this and all of the other message boards for years. Often I dont post because Jet fans can be over reactionary, short sighted and impatient and I often just ignore comments from people that clearly are wrong, impulsive or just stupid. 

I had only slight misgivings about the harris deal but again, no long term ramifications. I saw all the people bitch about the number but LOVED bringing "revis island" back...yeah I saw it, read it, didnt see a better option for that team, that year. He was brought back for more than just his play.

Gilchrist and Skrine were both applauded signings and in fact were good at the time. Everyone knew what skrine is/was and that hasnt changed but his play is relative to his numbers. On a bad team his play looks even worse. Gilchrist is NOT a top safety but I dont think anyone here really thought he would be when we brought him in. He was a stop gap and he did just enough on a team that was raggedy in the first place. 

I am 100000% on board about the #FUKKFITZ signing,...I cant even begin to voice my displeasure about it and I'd rather not raise my blood pressure this morning. 

Clady was injury prone, we didnt have a better option and he is gone. Some players who have an injury history you take a chance on and see what happens. It's why we signed chris ivory. He was on the saints behind a few guys but he was also injury prone. Shyt happens. 

Forte I didnt like, I thought he was too old but he was still productive. In fact he may have looked better last year if the line was better. I guess we will see this year. You think Powel it was dumb to bring powell back but without powell we would have looked worse that we already did. 

I didnt tell you what to bitch about...all you do is bitch....carry on. 

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

lol I know you would have something to say. You see a low post count and you do the idiot analysis and think I just got here. I have been a Jets fan since before you were born and frequented this and all of the other message boards for years. Often I dont post because Jet fans can be over reactionary, short sighted and impatient and I often just ignore comments from people that clearly are wrong, impulsive or just stupid. 

I had only slight misgivings about the harris deal but again, no long term ramifications. I saw all the people bitch about the number but LOVED bringing "revis island" back...yeah I saw it, read it, didnt see a better option for that team, that year. He was brought back for more than just his play.

Gilchrist and Skrine were both applauded signings and in fact were good at the time. Everyone knew what skrine is/was and that hasnt changed but his play is relative to his numbers. On a bad team his play looks even worse. Gilchrist is NOT a top safety but I dont think anyone here really thought he would be when we brought him in. He was a stop gap and he did just enough on a team that was raggedy in the first place. 

I am 100000% on board about the #FUKKFITZ signing,...I cant even begin to voice my displeasure about it and I'd rather not raise my blood pressure this morning. 

Clady was injury prone, we didnt have a better option and he is gone. Some players who have an injury history you take a chance on and see what happens. It's why we signed chris ivory. He was on the saints behind a few guys but he was also injury prone. Shyt happens. 

Forte I didnt like, I thought he was too old but he was still productive. In fact he may have looked better last year if the line was better. I guess we will see this year. You think Powel it was dumb to bring powell back but without powell we would have looked worse that we already did. 

I didnt tell you what to bitch about...all you do is bitch....carry on. 

Your post count means nothing to me one way or the other.  I do think that it is funny that you think you have been a Jets fan longer than me.  It's not likely, but also not particularly relevant. Your comments indicated that you weren't around WHEN WE WERE COMPLAINING!

I actually appreciate your take on who you bitched about at the time. I didn't have a problem with bringing Powell back. My problem is that I don't see Powell and Forte as complimentary and Powell got more money than he should have coming off a mediocre season on a 1/$2M deal. Clady being the best option is not a feather in the GMs cap. 

I actually defended some of those moves, but people complained and complained vehemently.  You guys said we didn't.  Worse, they were right to complain.  Tell me where they were wrong.  I still have hope the Wilkerson deal will be worthwhile, but like Richardson, Pryor and Decker it does not seem to have been handled properly. 

[whodeawhodat]

49 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

He spent ALL the money and now in year three we have a WORSE roster.  Who could complain?  We almost made the playoffs two years ago! Strength of schedule be damned!

IDK about worse although I can understand your opinion since we dont have Clyde Gates at WR anymore

we will see what these young bucks can do this year and move forward with the draft and FA next year.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

IDK about worse although I can understand your opinion since we dont have Clyde Gates at WR anymore

we will see what these young bucks can do this year and move forward with the draft and FA next year.

If you think these young players are better than the vets that is an argument to hang your hat on.  It does not coincide with top pick in the draft.