Sheldon Traded

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

“You don’t let the most talented guys leave… especially at that position,” a team insider said of Richardson. “You try and find a way to make it work.”

These Jets evidently are allergic to good football players.

There weren’t many people on One Jets Drive excited about parting with Richardson. In fact, many important voices were in the dark about this trade until after it went down.

“We should have sent them Hack,” a second source said.

No One wants Hack, no one.

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, fusionCA said:

maybe we trade Mehta to the pacific northwest  , he can be a fisherman 

I was thinking 7-11 clerk.

[Sperm Edwards]

Based on where we're at today, it's a very good trade. There's more to it, in that time didn't just begin with the Jets in this situation, so it's part of some past failures that we're where we are and that can't be ignored.

However, given where we are, IMO this was a no-brainer and luckily Seattle was willing to pay Sheldon $8m (on top of the 2nd rounder next year) when nobody else in the league would.

• This team had too many DTs for the past 2 years; making it 3 years wouldn't help anything no matter how talented Sheldon is
• We aren't competing in 2017, so paying Sheldon $8m effectively robs it from 2018 not 2017
• Mo and Leo are locked in, no matter what anyone says about being able to get out of Mo's contract next year. They were never going to dump Mo and lock up Sheldon.
• When it's time to bump Leo's money, then dump Mo as well. A successful team doesn't sink about $40m/year into a pair of slow DLmen who can't generally get to the QB outside of coverage sacks.
• Sheldon is a 5th wheel here. He has a good place in Seattle because he belongs inside as a gap-shooter next to another DT/NT, with both of these DTs in between a pair of edge-rushing DEs. Our DL of Mo-Sheldon-McLendon-Leo would likely be the slowest DL in the NFL, no matter how good they are at run-stopping or how talented the 3 younger ones are.
• It's way past due to dump one of Mo or Sheldon once Leo was drafted, but better late than never (which is where we were headed).

The team's singular goal in the next 8 months is securing a high enough pick to draft the best young QB we can get our hands on (while leaving as much cap room as possible to surround said QB with the best available veterans). Once Seattle made this offer I don't see how we could turn it down.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

This is dead-on. A 2 + a veteran is a lot more than I thought Maccagnan's dumb ass would ever net for Richardson, so in that sense the trade is a success. That said, trading a borderline-great 26-year-old for a half-decent #3 wideout and what will probably end up being the 63rd pick in the draft bespeaks a comprehensive organization-wide failure of resource allocation, player development, and roster management. You can like the trade qua the trade and still hate that we're in a position where we have to be making a trade like this at all.

The complaint - one which is 100% valid - is the past misuse of our high picks that put us into this position. A team can't keep drafting the same position with its #1 pick; even though 3 of the 4 DE/DTs we drafted panned out, who cares? We needed a QB and an edge rusher far more than adding to our DT collection.

Other than obvious running downs, Sheldon belongs inside between two pass rushers or outside as an end on a 3-man line. The team is already locked into Mo and Leo in an obvous tank season. Given that, any fans who say right now they'd trade away a 2nd round pick, plus some $6m of next year's cap, to add a talented and young, but totally un-needed, 2-strike douchebag DT, on a 1-year deal, are liars.

[Mogglez]

5 hours ago, C Mart said:

It's bullsh*t. 

Hes pissed. Pretty sure Sheldon was a source of his. Mo won't talk to MM so he's been trying to sh*t on Mo so Jets would dump Mo and keep Sheldon. So now he's whining like the little girl he is. 

Watching Mehta lose it on Twitter tonight is better than the 2nd we got:

He's been using the same " lolz randum Twitter follower, how will I survive" insult for months now.  You just know, deep down, he's thin skinned as all hell.  It's gold.  If anyone needed any insight into how bad this unprofessional little twat is at his job, this mini-meltdown is all you gotta look at.

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Based on where we're at today, it's a very good trade. There's more to it, in that time didn't just begin with the Jets in this situation, so it's part of some past failures that we're where we are and that can't be ignored.

However, given where we are, IMO this was a no-brainer and luckily Seattle was willing to pay Sheldon $8m (on top of the 2nd rounder next year) when nobody else in the league would.

• This team had too many DTs for the past 2 years; making it 3 years wouldn't help anything no matter how talented Sheldon is
• We aren't competing in 2017, so paying Sheldon $8m effectively robs it from 2018 not 2017
• Mo and Leo are locked in, no matter what anyone says about being able to get out of Mo's contract next year. They were never going to dump Mo and lock up Sheldon.
• When it's time to bump Leo's money, then dump Mo as well. A successful team doesn't sink about $40m/year into a pair of slow DLmen who can't generally get to the QB outside of coverage sacks.
• Sheldon is a 5th wheel here. He has a good place in Seattle because he belongs inside as a gap-shooter next to another DT/NT, with both of these DTs in between a pair of edge-rushing DEs. Our DL of Mo-Sheldon-McLendon-Leo would likely be the slowest DL in the NFL, no matter how good they are at run-stopping or how talented the 3 younger ones are.
• It's way past due to dump one of Mo or Sheldon once Leo was drafted, but better late than never (which is where we were headed).

The team's singular goal in the next 8 months is securing a high enough pick to draft the best young QB we can get our hands on (while leaving as much cap room as possible to surround said QB with the best available veterans). Once Seattle made this offer I don't see how we could turn it down.

Anyone knocking this trade isn't doing it for football reasons IMO.  It's disdain for Mac who they'd rip if he found a way to get Dak from Jerruh.

[j4jets]

12 hours ago, flgreen said:

IMO they already have. Again IMO Kearse was thrown in because Richardson wouldn't re-do his deal, so the Jets took Kearse to give them cap relief. 

That's a plausible scenario. I just don't think it's true. Kearse was counting as $4 mil in cap. Trading him resulted in a $3.7 mil dead money, essentially COSTING the Seahawks about $200k in cap (believe it or not) due to the top 51 players salary rule. 

With this being a purge year, and Kearse being nothing more than a depth WR, I wouldn't think he's a lock to make the week 1 roster. Then again, it's just $2.2 mil and worth a shot to keep him this year. I don't see him on our team at his current contract next year ($5mil salary). 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Anyone knocking this trade isn't doing it for football reasons IMO.  It's disdain for Mac who they'd rip if he found a way to get Dak from Jerruh.

Yes. Because Mac has made a lot of moves that equate to getting Dak from Jerry. Like, say, scouting Dak but drafting Christian Hackenberg instead, and two rounds earlier.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Anyone knocking this trade isn't doing it for football reasons IMO.  It's disdain for Mac who they'd rip if he found a way to get Dak from Jerruh.

I don't know if it's as simple as that. It's a legitimate gripe to lose one of the few draft picks that did pan out (and who knows how much better he'd have performed if, since he was the only one of the 3 capable of doing so, he hadn't been moved all over the place these past 2 years). 

I've got plenty of disdain for Maccagnan. But things being the way he's left them, right now at this time if Seattle offered this then he had to take it.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

He's been using the same " lolz randum Twitter follower, how will I survive" insult for months now.  You just know, deep down, he's thin skinned as all hell.  It's gold.  If anyone needed any insight into how bad this unprofessional little twat is at his job, this mini-meltdown is all you gotta look at.

In fairness to Mehta, Jets fans are Twitter are some of the dumbest morher****ers alive.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, T0mShane said:

In fairness to Mehta, Jets fans are Twitter are some of the dumbest morher****ers alive.

You would only know this if you were a Jets fan on Twitter. 

[AFJF]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know if it's as simple as that. It's a legitimate gripe to lose one of the few draft picks that did pan out (and who knows how much better he'd have performed if, since he was the only one of the 3 capable of doing so, he hadn't been moved all over the place these past 2 years). 

I've got plenty of disdain for Maccagnan. But things being the way he's left them, right now at this time if Seattle offered this then he had to take it.

I think it's a legit gripe if there aren't two known factors

1- Multiple off field issues that will lead to lengthy suspension if he has another incident

2- The player himself has said he plays hard because he wants a big pay day.  Once he gets the pay day, nobody knows what they're getting.

Those are two huge risks for a player who is going to ask to be a top paid defensive player IMO.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yes. Because Mac has made a lot of moves that equate to getting Dak from Jerry. Like, say, scouting Dak but drafting Christian Hackenberg instead, and two rounds earlier.

Moot point.  This was a great deal.  Only reason to knock it is you don't like that the guy did something that he wasn't supposed to be able to do.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You would only know this if you were a Jets fan on Twitter. 

I am a Jets OBSERVER on Twitter.

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

Moot point.  This was a great deal.  Only reason to knock it is you don't like that the guy did something that he wasn't supposed to be able to do.

I think we are all in agreement that Mac is fully capable of trading good assets for significantly lesser assets.

[AFJF]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think we are all in agreement that Mac is fully capable to trading good assets for significantly lesser assets.

Yes, because so many people spent the past year and a half going on and on about how easy it was going to be for Mac to get a 2nd round pick for Sheldon.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, AFJF said:

I think it's a legit gripe if there aren't two known factors

1- Multiple off field issues that will lead to lengthy suspension if he has another incident

2- The player himself has said he plays hard because he wants a big pay day.  Once he gets the pay day, nobody knows what they're getting.

Those are two huge risks for a player who is going to ask to be a top paid defensive player IMO.

Meh. Remember the minute Sheldon was drafted? I do. It was nothing but groaning and mocking because we just drafted yet another DE/DT.  Well if that was dumb, how smart was it to draft yet another one after Sheldon (which also came 1 month after exercising the 5th year option on Coples)? Point being, we were put into this place by drafting the way we did. 

Sheldon has all the bad points and risks you say; they're not arguable points. Thing is, we needed a QB and an edge rusher and we got another DE/DT despite all the cowardly BAP/BPA talk.  The incremental from Mo or Sheldon to Leo is insignificant (if there's even an incremental on the field from Sheldon to Leo). However, the incremental from Mauldin to Beasley plus our 3rd rounder to use on someone other than Mauldin, is far greater. Or from Lee+Hackenberg (roughly what it would have cost to move up from #6 to #2) to Mariota, plus in 2018 of course we'd get to use our 1st round pick on a non-QB. 

Just like no matter how great a prospect's value when it's our turn to pick, the Jets would have to be the dumbest mother****ers on earth if, with Adams and Maye both panning out, they drafted yet another 1st round safety in 2019. What it necessarily does is it forces one of the 3 into a rover role like we've done with Sheldon for 2 years: sometimes playing safety, sometimes outside corner, sometimes NB, sometimes a hybrid LB/S, etc. but never getting the full value of purely playing a safety at the very position that made him such a good prospect in the first place. So we ended up using Sheldon at OLB (and even ILB, God help us), and this year and beyond we'd have lined up 4 DTs on our DL which is only desirable on running downs. 

We are where we are, which is why I'm in favor of the trade. But to ignore how we got to where we are is to give Maccagnan an undeserved free pass.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Idzik had 19 draft picks and ~10-15 FA signings?,

two years later the Jets have 2 OL and 1 WR on IR to show for it and we got to watch Revis win a SB with the pats*  wow

[AFJF]

14 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Idzik had 19 draft picks and ~10-15 FA signings?,

two years later the Jets have 2 OL and 1 WR on IR to show for it and we got to watch Revis win a SB with the pats*  wow

How soon we forget Dimitri Patterson...SMH

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh. Remember the minute Sheldon was drafted? I do. It was nothing but groaning and mocking because we just drafted yet another DE/DT.  Well if that was dumb, how smart was it to draft yet another one after Sheldon (which also came 1 month after exercising the 5th year option on Coples)? Point being, we were put into this place by drafting the way we did. 

Sheldon has all the bad points and risks you say; they're not arguable points. Thing is, we needed a QB and an edge rusher and we got another DE/DT despite all the cowardly BAP/BPA talk.  The incremental from Mo or Sheldon to Leo is insignificant (if there's even an incremental on the field from Sheldon to Leo). However, the incremental from Mauldin to Beasley plus our 3rd rounder to use on someone other than Mauldin, is far greater. Or from Lee+Hackenberg (roughly what it would have cost to move up from #6 to #2) to Mariota, plus in 2018 of course we'd get to use our 1st round pick on a non-QB. 

Just like no matter how great a prospect's value when it's our turn to pick, the Jets would have to be the dumbest mother****ers on earth if, with Adams and Maye both panning out, they drafted yet another 1st round safety in 2019. What it necessarily does is it forces one of the 3 into a rover role like we've done with Sheldon for 2 years: sometimes playing safety, sometimes outside corner, sometimes NB, sometimes a hybrid LB/S, etc. but never getting the full value of purely playing a safety at the very position that made him such a good prospect in the first place. So we ended up using Sheldon at OLB (and even ILB, God help us), and this year and beyond we'd have lined up 4 DTs on our DL which is only desirable on running downs. 

We are where we are, which is why I'm in favor of the trade. But to ignore how we got to where we are is to give Maccagnan an undeserved free pass.

All good points, but I'm not sure Mac didn't know years ago that they were going to get rid of Sheldon.

I talked to somebody close to the team a couple of years ago before all of his off-field stuff started (Sheldon's second year IIRC) and he basically said "That guy legitimately scares me as a person".  Person was speculating even back then that he could be bad news off the field.

Either way, I can't gripe about picking Leo and now they get to move on from Sheldon and get another second round pick in an insanely deep draft.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

All good points, but I'm not sure Mac didn't know years ago that they were going to get rid of Sheldon.

I talked to somebody close to the team a couple of years ago before all of his off-field stuff started (Sheldon's second year IIRC) and he basically said "That guy legitimately scares me as a person".  Person was speculating even back then that he could be bad news off the field.

Either way, I can't gripe about picking Leo and now they get to move on from Sheldon and get another second round pick in an insanely deep draft.

If he knew he was dumping Sheldon and waited so his HC could force him out of position that's even worse.

Just saying Leo + Mo isn't worlds better than Sheldon + Mo. Certainly not #6 pick in the country better. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

How soon we forget Dimitri Patterson...SMH

and the Mike Goodson three-year, $6.9 million deal

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If he knew he was dumping Sheldon and waited so his HC could force him out of position that's even worse.

Just saying Leo + Mo isn't worlds better than Sheldon + Mo. Certainly not #6 pick in the country better. 

The "out of position" thing is way overblown.  I said it quite a few times myself before looking at the numbers and seeing that Sheldon played OLB on roughly 15% of his snaps last season.

Fair points though.

Just glad he's gone after all the worries about getting a 4th/5th or nothing at all if he hit FA.

[Lith]

35 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Idzik had 19 draft picks and ~10-15 FA signings?,

two years later the Jets have 2 OL and 1 WR on IR to show for it and we got to watch Revis win a SB with the pats*  wow

You can play that game with Macc too.  In 2015, he inherited $50MM+ in cap space and spent it to acquire 15 free agents.  All we have left is Carpenter and Skrine.  A solid guard and a lousy nickel corner. 15 FA signings in March and April of 2015:

Antonio Cromartie
Buster Skrine
Corey Hilliard
Darrelle Revis
Erin Henderson
Jamari Lattimore
James Brewer
James Carpenter
Joe Mays
Kellen Davis
Kevin Vickerson
Marcus Gilchrist
Ronald Talley
Steven Bowen
Stevan Ridley

He also acquired 4 players in trades (Fitz, Marashall, Posey and Stacy) who are all gone two years later.

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, AFJF said:

Anyone knocking this trade isn't doing it for football reasons IMO.  It's disdain for Mac who they'd rip if he found a way to get Dak from Jerruh.

Absolutely spot on.  The anti-Mac crew really has to dig deep to criticize this trade.

Mac didnt draft sheldon and yes picking Leo created a logjam at the position, but Leo is on an all-pro trajectory so really tough to knock that pick.

The entire league knew we needed to trade SR and he somehow got a 2nd round pick, and an average NFL player at a position of need.  That second round pick, is way more compensation then anyone being honest would have thought we could get prior to yesterday afternoon.

[JetFaninMI]

16 hours ago, NYallDay said:

2nd rounder


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its conditional is it not?

[AFJF]

13 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Its conditional is it not?

It is not.  It's a 2nd rounder per Mac when he spoke with media yesterday.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

29 minutes ago, Lith said:

You can play that game with Macc too.  In 2015, he inherited $50MM+ in cap space and spent it to acquire 15 free agents.  All we have left is Carpenter and Skrine.  A solid guard and a lousy nickel corner. 15 FA signings in March and April of 2015:

Antonio Cromartie
Buster Skrine
Corey Hilliard
Darrelle Revis
Erin Henderson
Jamari Lattimore
James Brewer
James Carpenter
Joe Mays
Kellen Davis
Kevin Vickerson
Marcus Gilchrist
Ronald Talley
Steven Bowen
Stevan Ridley

He also acquired 4 players in trades (Fitz, Marashall, Posey and Stacy) who are all gone two years later.

Wow, once again the Jets wrote the book on how to create the worst roster in the NFL in just four years

To his credit, Mac did write the contracts with 2 year "out" clauses so this is clearly worst case - competitive rebuild was the plan and next year they are out of jail after that failed (guess Idzik had a four year plan that could have been better) just a nightmare for fans, except the 10 win season was fun for a minute

 

[JetFaninMI]

Just now, AFJF said:

It is not.  It's a 2nd rounder per Mac when he spoke with media yesterday.

Okay even better. Did they exchange 7th rounders as well? We all know that's where Macc does most of his drafting anyway.

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think we are all in agreement that Mac is fully capable to trading good assets for significantly lesser assets.

 

28 minutes ago, Lith said:

You can play that game with Macc too.  In 2015, he inherited $50MM+ in cap space and spent it to acquire 15 free agents.  All we have left is Carpenter and Skrine.  A solid guard and a lousy nickel corner. 15 FA signings in March and April of 2015:

Antonio Cromartie
Buster Skrine
Corey Hilliard
Darrelle Revis
Erin Henderson
Jamari Lattimore
James Brewer
James Carpenter
Joe Mays
Kellen Davis
Kevin Vickerson
Marcus Gilchrist
Ronald Talley
Steven Bowen
Stevan Ridley

He also acquired 4 players in trades (Fitz, Marashall, Posey and Stacy) who are all gone two years later.

Mike Maccagnan sucks and is in over his head, the Chrisitian Hackenberg pick says it all.

Look at this roster most wouldn't be in the NFL if not for the NY Jets. 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Okay even better. Did they exchange 7th rounders as well? We all know that's where Macc does most of his drafting anyway.

Yup.  Swapping 7th rounders.

[Lith]

4 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Wow, once again the Jets wrote the book on how to create the worst roster in the NFL in just four years

To his credit, Mac did write the contracts with 2 year "out" clauses so this is clearly worst case - competitive rebuild was the plan and next year they are out of jail after that failed (guess Idzik had a four year plan that could have been better) just a nightmare for fans, except the 10 win season was fun for a minute

 

To be fair, as you point out, he was able to get out of some of his bad contracts with limited impact and others signings were not expected to be long term.  And had we won that damn game in Buffalo he probably would be looked at a lot differently, but we didn't.

I am not a fan of Macc, but getting back to the topic of this thread -- I think he got a great deal for Sheldon.  Hopefully we will be able to get our QB next season with a Top 3 pick, and then with two 2s, we would have the flexibility to move back into the first round and get the left tackle who is going to protect that QB for the next decade.  If we actually decide to spend some valuable draft resources on the OL for a change.  Good trade.

 

 

[kelly]

18 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Sheldon for Kearse and a 4th maybe?

Not bad. Kearse is an instant starter here.

..he is kinda cute  

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Wow, once again the Jets wrote the book on how to create the worst roster in the NFL in just four years

To his credit, Mac did write the contracts with 2 year "out" clauses so this is clearly worst case - competitive rebuild was the plan and next year they are out of jail after that failed (guess Idzik had a four year plan that could have been better) just a nightmare for fans, except the 10 win season was fun for a minute

 

1. No he did not. He didn't write any of the contracts - nor should he have, since he had no experience doing so as a career scout - and paying Revis $6m of new money in year 3 is not an out clause.

2. Cap money wasted is cap money that is gone and cannot be used on others. It is never ok. Worst of all, these were players that were older so the hopes of the money paid to them being an investment was minimal. This was all "feel good" spending and there's almost nothing to show for it.

3. Spending this much money, and still losing an outstanding young player who never wanted to leave like Snacks, is the height of incompetence. I mean, it's almost impossible to be this bad.

It is never excusible to acquire this many failed, expensive new veterans in such a short timespan. Look at all the expensive FAs available over the past 3 offseasons and go virtual shopping, and then see how many fewer holes this team should have had by focusing more on younger veteran starters rather than ones exiting (if not outright past) their primes.

[Jetster]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Warfish has an excellent point. Any player with top NFL talent at his position on this roster should be handled properly, made to feel like he's a leader, and not made to feel like he's working for a low class organization with a head coach he doesn't believe in. 

Yes, we are in a spot now where losing him for a pick makes sense for our future. The fact that we got to this point is what no one seems to be discussing.  

SAR I

What? Seriously, you think the Jets should have handled Richardson differently after his shenanigans? Come on, now if he acted more like someone like JJ Watt or Aaron Donald I see your point. Unfortunately Sheldon Richardson is a TURD of a human being and we got a good deal for him plus we have a younger Leonard Williams who is guy you buy your kid his jersey and be fine with it.