How much criticism should Macc be getting for whiffing on Watson?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

Is it?  You mean to tell me, if you have 3 1st round picks, you couldn't be a little aggressive with a 2nd round pick?

Not for a team that is so deplete of talent as the Browns. The Jets are not as deplete, as can be seen by the fact that they have more wins than Cleveland. So in fact, the Jets can be more aggressive in the middle rounds because they have more talent secure.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Bottom line is that if you would rather be the 0-8 Cleveland Browns who have basically tanked their whole existence go right ahead. I will go with a franchise that at least has ******* won a couple games

Only in your mind are those the only two choices.  You know there are other possible outcomes to a football season than losing.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

Yes it is.

I don't think so. I have the same concept with the presidency, If you voted for the president, IMO, you should not complain about his policies because you voted him in

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's the problem I have. If you were wrong why are you complaining that Macc was wrong? True it's not your job, but is that fair logically?

Yes

[Stark]

51 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

There are no Deshaun Watsons in the upcoming draft. 

This was the best QB in college football the last 2 seasons.

This was the guy that ripped mighty Alabama's defense a new one....twice, when it counted the most.

The Jets haven't had their own franchise QB in 3 decades. Hack is garbage and everyone knew and still knows it.

So DW was right there, staring back at us at #6, a golden opportunity for a true franchise QB of our own, to a team who so desperately needs one.

And we draft safety.

And, no this isn't hindsight. Most fans who also follow cfb was screaming for this guy. The upside was way too good if it payed off. 

And we draft safety. 

Now we choose btw Rosen who emotionally/mentally may be fragile. Or Darnold who has a ton to prove in a sophomore slump. Or Lamar Jackson who looks as uncomfortable in the pocket as any QB I've seen.

So shouldn't Macc be held accountable for going safety when even most fans would have got it right with franchise QB???

This miss is as big as trading up for Dewayne Robertson.

Where do you get the "Rosen may be emotionally/mentally fragile". He has singlehandedly carried that team. UCLA has ZERO defense and Rosen stands in and makes throws knowing he is going to take a shot. Maybe there is something reported about him that I don't know, but I have to respectfully disagree with that comment. If you are referring to the "immaturity" concerns from a year ago I could maybe see that, but based on this season and what he has said I don't see a fragile QB. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Yes

Not in my opinion. Same way in politics

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I'd much rather argue this. At the time we had Richardson and Wilkerson, did we really need Williams? Beasly was the obvious compliment to both of them and a pass rusher we've always needed. 

I still feel like Bowles influences draft decisions way too much. Leo, Lee and then 2 safeties. 

Why would Bowles not want a pass rusher.

Please don't fall into the inane and unverifiable thought process that everything bad is Bowles, everything good is Macc.  You're better than that.

[dbatesman]

18 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So why did many sites give Macc's draft a B? Including this one?

 

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Why are we STILL going on about this?

There was NO expert (and when I say expert, I mean REAL experts, not the ones that sit on team websites and say I KNEW HE WOULD BE GREAT) that had him picked higher than right around where he went.  Mac was not picking a QB at 6.  IF he could have brokered a deal to move down, then maybe.

Now, if Mac whiffs on a QB next year.....the doors will be WIDE open for his departure.

This is entering “too stupid to insult” territory.

[ZachEY]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Not in my opinion.

That's clear.

At the same time, you complain that Woody would hire a "bean counter" but, by your own logic, it shouldn't matter what his background is, as he should not be expected to do any better than a bunch of morons on a Jets Message Board.  If Mac is not held to a higher standard than Jets fans as far as his ability to build a team, why does he have a job?

[CanadaSteve]

I have said this before, and I will again: my ONE concern when we hired Mac was the QB position.  He has been around football his whole life, is well respected in the league, has received many accolades for his scouting abilities...blah blah blah.

BUT....He came from Houston.  And I tell ya, I think he might have brought the mentality of being gun-shy of drafting QB's.  They took David Carr with their very first draft pick in 2002, and never ONCE picked a QB in 15 years higher than round 5.  They kept bringing in veterans, the best being Matt Schaub. 

My worry is Kirk Cousins is going to get offered a BOAT load of money to come here, rather than taking a chance on one of the 10 guys worth taking a shot with next year.

 

[Adoni Beast]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's the problem I have. If you were wrong why are you complaining that Macc was wrong? True it's not your job, but is that fair logically?

Absolutely. I watch college games, but I watched Clemson games only casually last year. I saw what was on the surface. Scouts and GMs get paid to watch hours of film, full player evaluations, interviews, etc

Im not even saying Mac should be fired. Im probably one of his few fans on this site. But results are results. There was a QB prospect there at 6. We needed a QB. We didn't take him. He's turning out one of, if not the best rookie season ever for a QB. 

Its not black and white. I get it. But like I said, Mac can be washed of this sin if he finds us a franchise quarterback. Until then, hes the guy who didn't do enough homework on Watson. Houston did, and traded up for him.

Also, We will regret not taking Mahomes.

[JustInFudge]

He deserves a sh*t ton of criticism for passing on Watson.  Just like he does for taking Hack over Prescott or taking Hack period.  Just like he does for letting Fitz hold him hostage.  Just like he does for dumping 80 mil into a secondary 3 years ago and only has 1 player remaining and he sucks.  Just like he does for having zero clue about positional value in the draft.  Just like he does for having the team deprived of talent, 3 years into his tenure.  Just like he does for having nothing to show for his first 2 second round picks.  

The only difference in this situation was this was literally a no-brainer.  (well I guess you could argue taking Hack in the 2nd didn't require a brain to know he'd fail).  Big Mac chose to run with Hack, Petty and McCown over drafting a TRUE franchise changing player.  The kid is special.  Players like him don't come out every year.  You draft a Watson, everything about the Jets begins to change just by his presence alone. 

Many of us on this board said these exact words, "what is there to think about, if Watson is there, you run to the podium".  We don't get paid to do this and we all saw it.  That's an issue.  This is Warren Sapp and Ed Reed all over again.  This is Kenny O over Marino.  This is the story of the New York Jets.  A mediocre safety over the best college Football player the league had seen since Tebow.  Except the difference between him and Tebow is that this kid actually had all the goods to succeed as a pro, well excuse me, other than his 49 mph provided by Ourlads Scouting Services. lmfao. Maybe Watson doesn't turn out to be a HOF'er like the guy mentioned above but this is looking like a stain that will be hard to remove and it's a stain that Mac provided. 

 

 

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I don't think so. I have the same concept with the presidency, If you voted for the president, IMO, you should not complain about his policies because you voted him in

You can have the concept on whatever topic you like, it's still completely, aggressively irrational.

[UnitedWhofans]

6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

That's clear.

At the same time, you complain that Woody would hire a "bean counter" but, by your own logic, it shouldn't matter what his background is, as he should not be expected to do any better than a bunch of morons on a Jets Message Board.  If Mac is not held to a higher standard than Jets fans as far as his ability to build a team, why does he have a job?

No No. I said that a bunch of morons on a Jets message board if they agreed with what the GM did at the time, lose the right to complain afterwards. 

In this case, the people who wanted Watson do have the right to complain, but not right now. In a few years when we have some years and stock for Watson. Then you can complain

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I have said this before, and I will again: my ONE concern when we hired Mac was the QB position.  He has been around football his whole life, is well respected in the league, has received many accolades for his scouting abilities...blah blah blah.

BUT....He came from Houston.  And I tell ya, I think he might have brought the mentality of being gun-shy of drafting QB's.  They took David Carr with their very first draft pick in 2002, and never ONCE picked a QB in 15 years higher than round 5.  They kept bringing in veterans, the best being Matt Schaub. 

My worry is Kirk Cousins is going to get offered a BOAT load of money to come here, rather than taking a chance on one of the 10 guys worth taking a shot with next year.

 

Your one concern is the QB position, and you aren't appalled by the job Mac is doing?

Macc has been here 3 years, and in his 3rd year, Josh McCown is the starting QB, and the best QB on the roster.  Josh McCown is also not a placeholder while another QB is being groomed.  Josh McCown is the best Mac could do after 3 years.

How could you do a worse job at the QB position?

[CanadaSteve]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

This is entering “too stupid to insult” territory.

Yeah, it is....if you mean the constant bitching about Watson.  It is beyond idiotic to think that a 3rd year GM, after taking a QB in the 2nd round the previous year, would take a QB that some had ranked right about where he went, and others had him pegged more as a 2-3 round guy.  There were great concerns about his arm strength, a REAL issue in the Meadowlands, INT'S, ready through progressions. 

It is SIMPLE to sit on a website and say "I would have..." BS you would, not when your neck is on the line, and there were as many concerns about him as a prospect.  He starts this season for us and we are 3-5, or worse?  The next set of billboards would have been up calling for his termination.

The big thing to be pissed at, in my opinion, is why Josh McCown keeps getting trotted out to play.  It is unbelievable that Petty and Hack are not 1 and 2 for this whole season so you can see what you have, so you can go into the draft knowing you need starter-QB, a project, and what type of back-up you need.  If you wanna be pissed about anything, that would be the best thing, because it is ridiculous.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

Your one concern is the QB position, and you aren't appalled by the job Mac is doing?

Macc has been here 3 years, and in his 3rd year, Josh McCown is the starting QB, and the best QB on the roster.  Josh McCown is also not a placeholder while another QB is being groomed.  Josh McCown is the best Mac could do after 3 years.

How could you do a worse job at the QB position?

And the irony of it all is that the offense has been better than the end Rex years. I've looked

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No No. I said that a bunch of morons on a Jets message board if they agreed with what the GM did at the time, lose the right to complain afterwards. 

In this case, the people who wanted Watson do have the right to complain, but not right now. In a few years when we have some years and stock for Watson. Then you can complain

And that remains just as inaccurate and irrational as the notion that you are some arbiter of what Jets fans can be upset about and when they can be upset.

[The Crusher]

12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Not in my opinion. Same way in politics

No politics thanks 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And the irony of it all is that the offense has been better than the end Rex years. I've looked

Better than awful =/= good

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

And that remains just as inaccurate and irrational as the notion that you are some arbiter of what Jets fans can be upset about and when they can be upset.

MAybe so, but they are being upset because they want to be upset. They can't not exist without being unhappy.

[ZachEY]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

MAybe so, but they are being upset because they want to be upset. They can't not exist without being unhappy.

Where did you get your psych degree?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

Better than awful =/= good

I did not say good. I said better

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

He deserves a sh*t ton of criticism for passing on Watson.  Just like he does for taking Hack over Prescott or taking Hack period.  Just like he does for letting Fitz hold him hostage.  Just like he does for dumping 80 mil into a secondary 3 years ago and only has 1 player remaining and he sucks.  Just like he does for having zero clue about positional value in the draft.  Just like he does for having the team deprived of talent, 3 years into his tenure.  Just like he does for having nothing to show for his first 2 second round picks.  

The only difference in this situation was this was literally a no-brainer.  (well I guess you could argue taking Hack in the 2nd didn't require a brain to know he'd fail).  Big Mac chose to run with Hack, Petty and McCown over drafting a TRUE franchise changing player.  The kid is special.  Players like him don't come out every year.  You draft a Watson, everything about the Jets begins to change just by his presence alone. 

Many of us on this board said these exact words, "what is there to think about, if Watson is there, you run to the podium".  We don't get paid to do this and we all saw it.  That's an issue.  This is Warren Sapp and Ed Reed all over again.  This is Kenny O over Marino.  This is the story of the New York Jets.  A mediocre safety over the best college Football player the league had seen since Tebow.  Except the difference between him and Tebow is that this kid actually had all the goods to succeed as a pro, well excuse me, other than his 49 mph provided by Ourlads Scouting Services. lmfao. Maybe Watson doesn't turn out to be a HOF'er like the guy mentioned above but this is looking like a stain that will be hard to remove and it's a stain that Mac provided. 

 

 

if mccags had drafted watson, he would have flashed in preseason, then bowles would have started mccown and the media would be wondering when watson would get his shot.  if the season played out like this, where would this team be - nowhere again.  and mccags isn't doing himself any favors by signing fitz and mccown, it's as if he knows the qbs he drafts aren't starting caliber qbs so he hedges his bets right away.  when you look at his entire approach to the qb position, it suggests he has minimal confidence in his ability to draft a competent qb, which is why i think the jets will hard after cousins.  then mccags can continue to draft low risk players, like a LT in the first round, so he can point a low bust rate.

[Bugg]

57 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Bull crap. Durability is an attribute that can be scouted and everyone knew Smith's lean frame was maxed out. 

Correct. There are tons of talented college players who cannot stay on the field. Smith is one. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

I did not say good. I said better

So, who cares if they are better if they are still bad/not good?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

Where did you get your psych degree?

Don't need one. That's how transparent it is. Jets fans are so used to misery that even when something good happens they jump to the negative in order to feel comfortable.

[JoJoTownsell1]

As a  macc supporter, whiffing on Watson is a big blemish on his record. But Watson went 12th and every GM in the NFL could have drafted/traded up to draft Watson if they thought he would be this good. You don't think teams like the Ravens/Chargers/Niners/Bears/Browns/Bills/Dolphins/Saints/Skins/Giants/KC/Denver etc.. wouldn't want this kid starting or ready to start next year for their teams? With that said, I am pretty sure Macc has a plan and that plan includes getting a QB this offseason. If we end up with Mccown/Fitz 3.0 next season then I am all in on the dump Macc bandwagon. But I've seen enough good moves from Macc to support his decisions thus far and to see where he takes us next year when he has cap space and a high pick to solidify the QB position/O Line. 

 

[CanadaSteve]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Your one concern is the QB position, and you aren't appalled by the job Mac is doing?

Macc has been here 3 years, and in his 3rd year, Josh McCown is the starting QB, and the best QB on the roster.  Josh McCown is also not a placeholder while another QB is being groomed.  Josh McCown is the best Mac could do after 3 years.

How could you do a worse job at the QB position?

I never said I wasn't appalled.  I said it is ridiculous to fault the guy for not taking a QB 6 positions higher than any draft expert had him AT BEST, and 2 rounds higher at worse.  After drafting Hackenberg 3 rounds too soon, imagine if Watson comes out of the gate and we are 1-7?  As I said, its easy to sit here and criticize on a fan website when its not your ass on the firing line.

Bryce Petty was a good pick-up, and I think he should be starting...cut and dry.  I had him mocked to us in my own drafts, and wanted Hackenberg drafted as well, but in the 5th round, not as a wasted 2nd round pick.  Such is life.

I said in another post, I have grave concerns about moving forward with Mac on the QB position alone.  This damn league has become OBSESSED with one position, and it doesn't matter how well you evaluate players, draft throughout rounds 1-7, find UDFA's, scour the waiver-wire, or make trades.  If you can't find a QB, you are done.  Mac has not found one.  BUT, I understand why he didn't over-reach on Watson as a prospect with the number six pick. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, who cares if they are better if they are still bad/not good?

And here is a statement that proves my point. Instead of going "We're better offensively" you go "We're bad"

Jump to the negative. Because it's comfortable for you

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Why are we STILL going on about this?

There was NO expert (and when I say expert, I mean REAL experts, not the ones that sit on team websites and say I KNEW HE WOULD BE GREAT) that had him picked higher than right around where he went.  Mac was not picking a QB at 6.  IF he could have brokered a deal to move down, then maybe.

Now, if Mac whiffs on a QB next year.....the doors will be WIDE open for his departure.

There were plenty of "experts" (I still laugh that people think there are actually experts out there), that had Watson being a great pro.  His coach called him Michael Jordan.  Gruden loved him.  Cant remember the other "expert" who called him Mariota but better...but the point is, there were plenty that believed in Watson.  Namely the Houston Texans.

The problem was with a player like him, the "experts" wanted to look smart.  He doesn't take snaps from under center (no college Qb does), he doesn't come from a pro system (3 college QB's play in a pro system), 49 mph (lmfao), he's not accurate (completed 70% of his college passes), he's a run first QB (has 42 passing TD's his senior year).  It was all made up bull sh*t by morons who's job is to create hot takes and out smart the other blow hard employed at the other media outlet.  The draft process has become exactly that.  That's why a player trying to do something no player has ever done before, was drafted 2nd overall instead of just taking the safe bet in Watson.  

Jets fans need to realize something.  These experts that you cling to every word (tanking, 0-16, Watson sucks. Trubisky good), are morons that don't know anymore than you or I.  

 

 

 

[ZachEY]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Don't need one. That's how transparent it is. Jets fans are so used to misery that even when something good happens they jump to the negative in order to feel comfortable.

You are literally just making stuff up.

The Jets have given us no real reason to be happy, so your comments say a lot more about you than they do about "jets fans" you attempt to condemn.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, gEYno said:

You are literally just making stuff up.

The Jets have given us no real reason to be happy, so your comments say a lot more about you than they do about "jets fans" you attempt to condemn.

They were picked to be the worst team in the NFL. It's literally impossible to be disappointed after that

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

I never said I wasn't appalled.  I said it is ridiculous to fault the guy for not taking a QB 6 positions higher than any draft expert had him AT BEST, and 2 rounds higher at worse.  After drafting Hackenberg 3 rounds too soon, imagine if Watson comes out of the gate and we are 1-7?  As I said, its easy to sit here and criticize on a fan website when its not your ass on the firing line.

Bryce Petty was a good pick-up, and I think he should be starting...cut and dry.  I had him mocked to us in my own drafts, and wanted Hackenberg drafted as well, but in the 5th round, not as a wasted 2nd round pick.  Such is life.

I said in another post, I have grave concerns about moving forward with Mac on the QB position alone.  This damn league has become OBSESSED with one position, and it doesn't matter how well you evaluate players, draft throughout rounds 1-7, find UDFA's, scour the waiver-wire, or make trades.  If you can't find a QB, you are done.  Mac has not found one.  BUT, I understand why he didn't over-reach on Watson as a prospect with the number six pick. 

Watson is just the latest.  If you're appalled like the rest of us, you may not feel as strongly about Watson, but surely you can understand why people are sick of Macc's constant mismanagement of the most important position in the league, by far.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

You are literally just making stuff up.

The Jets have given us no real reason to be happy, so your comments say a lot more about you than they do about "jets fans" you attempt to condemn.

You just said it in your previous comment