ChuckkieB Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Most of us here are making this way more complicated than it should be. Lets look at the last 2-1/2 years in the simplest of terms: Mac has been the GM for 3 drafts and 2-1/2 years of games so far and his starting QB's have been Fitzpatrick and McCown and he's drafted Petty and Hackenberg. If this is the best this GM can do for the Jets at the most important position on the field, how can we have faith in him to improve this team at all??? Furthermore, the Jets are going to enter 2018 with even more holes than they had entering the 2015 season. How can this be viewed as anything but a complete failure on the part of the GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, gEYno said: To be clear, I don't blame either for everything. I blame each for the failures of their general job descriptions. In game buffoonery goes to Bowles, and there's been plenty of that. Quality of the roster goes to Mac, and the isn't much quality at all. Ultimately, I take the position I do here, because I think Bowles deserves plenty of criticism, but the level to which people blame him for this sh*t-show is just completely out of control, and often times, completely illogical. My main point is in very, very few NFL scenarios does the HC not have a major say on the personnel choices. Final say should always go to the GM, but there is a reason why HC's are in the draft room, and at the combine. I also think it would be irresponsible for a GM to be acting without working very closely to his HC in every scenario. I think to absolve Bowls of the roster is unfair, just as its unfair to absolve Mac. I think they both have their hand in this roster. You can argue and debate percentages for each one of them, but I would be shocked if Mac has setup this roster in a vacuum without a ton of input from Bowles. This is why I think in 99% of scenarios in the NFL, the HC and the GM should be tied together at the hip. And from what I have seen from the two combined, neither is good enough individually, and especially not together, to warrant keeping them both around. But, I think the absolute worst thing would be to fire one without firing the other. If that happened in a well run org, you would say that the owner is smart enough to understand how things worked the past 3 years and was intelligently able to decipher who the blame goes to, and make that decision. But there is no way in hell anyone in FP has the ability to do that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Taking Pryor in 2014 was one of the all time boners by the Jets, considering the roster and who was on the board. Hell, the Geno truthers probably could have been put to bed easily with Cooks or even Benjamin being on the roster. Yeah. It's just mind-boggling that Idzik could look at Geno's rookie year and think we were all set there, or that Maccagnan could look at Hackenberg's and think the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, gEYno said: Look at you two, getting along. before you know it, @dbatesman and I will be working on some Cox proportional hazard models together to figure out how long our next GM should stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFaninMI Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Trick question. It should be: How much more criticism should Macc get for Whiffing on Watson? The Answer: All you can give and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said: Most of us here are making this way more complicated than it should be. Lets look at the last 2-1/2 years in the simplest of terms: Mac has been the GM for 3 drafts and 2-1/2 years of games so far and his starting QB's have been Fitzpatrick and McCown and he's drafted Petty and Hackenberg. If this is the best this GM can do for the Jets at the most important position on the field, how can we have faith in him to improve this team at all??? Furthermore, the Jets are going to enter 2018 with even more holes than they had entering the 2015 season. How can this be viewed as anything but a complete failure on the part of the GM? HUH? Are you blind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 42 minutes ago, gEYno said: So, your take is that we should be happy that we got an average strong safety with limited upside, and ignore that we missed a potentially good QB. As long as we get a good player I can live with it. My belief is core first QB second. Houston did it and got Watson. Now if the player was a bust and Macc skipped Watson, then you can get angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: As long as we get a good player I can live with it. 1) So far we haven't established that. 2) We get it, you're perfectly comfortable being 2nd or 3rd worst in the league, as long as you're not the worst. Why don't you save yourself the keystrokes and just say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, gEYno said: 1) So far we haven't established that. 2) We get it, you're perfectly comfortable being 2nd or 3rd worst in the league, as long as you're not the worst. Why don't you save yourself the keystrokes and just say that. 1. Same with Watson. Still too early. Flashy but early 2. I'm comfortable with being competitive. Because the key ingredient for any championship run is luck. You need to be lucky. And that is something you can't draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It's amazing to me that the media, who can be so aggressive with criticism, are actually being fair to Maccagnan and putting up caution to the complaining while fans aren't. That tells me something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said: Most of us here are making this way more complicated than it should be. Lets look at the last 2-1/2 years in the simplest of terms: Mac has been the GM for 3 drafts and 2-1/2 years of games so far and his starting QB's have been Fitzpatrick and McCown and he's drafted Petty and Hackenberg. If this is the best this GM can do for the Jets at the most important position on the field, how can we have faith in him to improve this team at all??? Furthermore, the Jets are going to enter 2018 with even more holes than they had entering the 2015 season. How can this be viewed as anything but a complete failure on the part of the GM. Hasn't been pretty but eh I'd give him one more year. And his only real options are signing Cousins if he becomes available or sell the farm for the top QB. He's gotta know his clock is ticking, so it's now or never. You can't expect to keep putting out end of the road guys and keep your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: 1. Same with Watson. Still too early. Flashy but early 2. I'm comfortable with being competitive. Because the key ingredient for any championship run is luck. You need to be lucky. And that is something you can't draft 1. Too early to declare Watson anything long term. Not too early to say he's played well, and flashed potential. Moreso than Adams. 2. This team has a long way to go before it'd be called competitive by anyone but you. And a longer way to go before it's good enough to get lucky down the stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan77 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not ready to crown Watson as the second coming just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, gEYno said: 1. Too early to declare Watson anything long term. Not too early to say he's played well, and flashed potential. Moreso than Adams. 2. This team has a long way to go before it'd be called competitive by anyone but you. And a longer way to go before it's good enough to get lucky down the stretch. 1. That’s true but it’s still not fair to jump the gun. 2. All I wanted to see from the Jets this year was effort and the young players playing well. Well the young players have flashed talent and they have shown effort. To me, that’s great. No next year will probably be different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 " How much criticism should Macc be getting for whiffing on Watson ? ".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, kelly said: " How much criticism should Macc be getting for whiffing on Watson ? ".. Don’t know what this means but I find it funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 All of the blame. The biggest position of need, and we've demonstrated routinely that our decision makers, not our scouting staff, but our decision makers, can't properly address the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 You know what? Given that Watson came into a system with a great offensive coach and great offensive weapons, I think both players are close in terms of flashes of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Paradis said: All of the blame. The biggest position of need, and we've demonstrated routinely that our decision makers, not our scouting staff, but our decision makers, can't properly address the situation. And I keep going back to this. If it’s the most valuable position, why are the Texans 3-4, if Watson has played well. Remember QB is the most vital position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Don’t know what this means but I find it funny i think this is Funny.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Paradis said: All of the blame. The biggest position of need, and we've demonstrated routinely that our decision makers, not our scouting staff, but our decision makers, can't properly address the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 At this point? Clearly a lot. In the long term it depends on how he addresses the position in the upcoming draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: 1. That’s true but it’s still not fair to jump the gun. 2. All I wanted to see from the Jets this year was effort and the young players playing well. Well the young players have flashed talent and they have shown effort. To me, that’s great. No next year will probably be different You've made it clear that all you want to see from the Jets is effort. We know. Unfortunately that speaks to your low standards more than anything else. The Browns and 49ers are trying too. As for young players playing well, there's not a ton of effort to support that. Just what you want to believe considering Robbie Anderson is the only young player who's making plays - and that's a big stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: And I keep going back to this. If it’s the most valuable position, why are the Texans 3-4, if Watson has played well. Remember QB is the most vital position Obviously because the Texans have lost three shootouts (where Watson played great) to the Patriots, Chiefs and Seahawks... The guy has 19 touchdowns in his first 7 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: You know what? Given that Watson came into a system with a great offensive coach and great offensive weapons, I think both players are close in terms of flashes of talent. You will literally say anything to defend Mac, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UntouchableCrew said: Obviously because the Texans have lost three shootouts (where Watson played great) to the Patriots, Chiefs and Seahawks... The guy has 19 touchdowns in his first 7 games. The only reason to play this game is to see what absurd bastardization of logic he'll come up with next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 hours ago, bitonti said: Do you work for the Jets marketing department? cause I swear that's how this team treats it's fans Just for the record, this is what it used to be like discussing Dewayne Robertson with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: Just for the record, this is what it used to be like discussing Dewayne Robertson with you. Those were simpler times, back when hope was alive. A sucker's born every minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said: 2. I'm comfortable with being competitive. Because the key ingredient for any championship run is luck. You need to be lucky. And that is something you can't draft I wish I could inject this directly into my veins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 25 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: ..how he addresses the position in the upcoming draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Can someone ban the idiot spamming up the board with Big Bang gifs? Doesn't this place have mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Mike Maccagnan is a moron. He will be remembered by the Christian Hackenberg draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said: 1. Same with Watson. Still too early. Flashy but early 2. I'm comfortable with being competitive. Because the key ingredient for any championship run is luck. You need to be lucky. And that is something you can't draft No, you have to be more than competitive to make use of that luck. you have to be good enough to make the playoffs and do so often. Being 8-8, heck even 10-6 like 2 years ago and missing the playoffs means you have ZERO chance at the brass ring. You don;t have to be the pats but you have to be a team like pittsburgh or green bay that makes the playoffs most years. And the reason some teams always seem to make the playoff is that they have franchise QBs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 36 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: And I keep going back to this. If it’s the most valuable position, why are the Texans 3-4, if Watson has played well. Remember QB is the most vital position Watson did not start all 7 seven games. Savage started the opener and they got smoked by Jacksonville. in the 6 games Watson has started they are 3-3 the losses were @ NE (33-36), vs KC (34-42) and @ SEA (38-42) In those losses this pure rookie put up 4 TD plus against 3 of the best teams in the league. The only reason a Jets fan would prefer Adams to Watson is because they haven't bothered to learn about Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 31 minutes ago, Beerfish said: No, you have to be more than competitive to make use of that luck. you have to be good enough to make the playoffs and do so often. Being 8-8, heck even 10-6 like 2 years ago and missing the playoffs means you have ZERO chance at the brass ring. You don;t have to be the pats but you have to be a team like pittsburgh or green bay that makes the playoffs most years. And the reason some teams always seem to make the playoff is that they have franchise QBs'. And usually what determines how many wins you need to make the playoffs is luck. Seattle had 7 wins and got in. NE had 11 wins one year and didnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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