Bowles Sees no Need to Play Young QB’s

[Saul Goodman]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Play hard every week?  What happened Sunday it looked like they didn't even show up. 

Sunday's game wasn't our best effort. Defense played well though. Offensive line and McCown just sucked (sucked being a very generous description). 

[joewilly12]

14 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Sunday's game wasn't our best effort. Defense played well though. Offensive line and McCown just sucked (sucked being a very generous description). 

So how is Bowles getting better by the way he prepared his team for Sundays game and how are the players playing hard every week with that performance.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

Bowles is absolutely getting another year. He's got the team vastly exceeding expectations. The players play hard every week. Those are the 2017 benchmarks.

Maccagnan needs to get us a QB. His status should already be shaky with the stable of QB's he has put in place. 

This is simply not correct, I keep hearing it but it is not correct.

There are 3 types of players.

- New young guys still on the rookie deal who have not been tainted by the nfl, they will play hard all the time.  (guys like Lee, Adams, May)

- Older vets hanging on or vets with a chip on their shoulder because they were passed by in the draft. (guys like kerly, kearse Anderson, Mccown)

- Then come the most important players, the best players on your team who have been paid big dollars and who you expect to make the biggest difference for your team.  (guys like mo wilk, winters, richardson, willaims, revis, skrine, gilchrist)

Bowles has totally and utterly failed to get these guys to play hard for him and the team.

[Larz]

19 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Should I tell him you guys?

Fine

Considering his college career, age, last years performance, make the case for Petty.  Please be specific. I'm really hoping you have something other than he's the backup who just needs reps or we need to find out who he is, lol

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, Stark said:

Bowles shouldn't be safe. Wins should not be the deciding factor for Bowles either. Yes, we were supposed to be the worst team in the NFL by some media members. Media is typically wrong. 

Bowles' problems are the same as they were when he was first hired. If you, the HC, do not show growth and ability to learn from your mistakes, why would we (JETS FANS) expect any player to be getting any type of developmental programs/show improvements on the field. 

Still way too many penalties, horrible use of T.O's, bad clock management, bad in-game decisions/lack of situational awareness. Team is still a rollercoaster week to week (players looking flat or out of it). Bowles' issues are still the same as Week 1 of Season 1 of his hire. Taking the QB situation out of it (which I think he as completely FUBAR'd) what has Bowles done well that would make an owner say, "Have to have Bowles, there are just too many positives and things that can't be replaced".

 

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying:  But if he was safe, and he knew it, I think he would be willing to play the younger guys and see who is what. 

But he is coaching for his job, and it isn't going very well, IMO at least

 

[jack48]

On 11/13/2017 at 4:24 PM, JetNation said:

Jets fans may be hoping to see one of the team’s two young quarterbacks this season, but head coachTodd Bowles sees no need for such a move according to Brian Costello of the New York Post.

Sitting at 4-6, the Jets won’t be making the playoffs this season and many fans like the idea of being able to see either Bryce Petty or Christian Hackenberg before the team looks to add at least one new QB this offseason.

Unfortunately for Jets fans, the only person whose opinion that matters is that of Bowles, and it appears his plan is to get a much longer look at 38-year old Josh McCown.

Click here to read the full story...

more Bowles CYA.  We need to be thinking best draft pick possible right now

[Mogglez]

28 minutes ago, Larz said:

Fine

Considering his college career, age, last years performance, make the case for Petty.  Please be specific. I'm really hoping you have something other than he's the backup who just needs reps or we need to find out who he is, lol

So the most valid reason for playing one of 2 young and unknown QBs is something you don't want to hear?  Sounds about right for someone who thinks that we still have a shot at the playoffs right now and is ok with trotting out a 38 year old never-was at QB.  

I'll be sure to make a mental note that the trio of Sunshine Sh*tters has become a quartet.

[Larz]

35 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So the most valid reason for playing one of 2 young and unknown QBs is something you don't want to hear?  Sounds about right for someone who thinks that we still have a shot at the playoffs right now and is ok with trotting out a 38 year old never-was at QB.  

I'll be sure to make a mental note that the trio of Sunshine Sh*tters has become a quartet.

What's the goal?

Is there scenario in your mind where petty shows he is a franchise QB, and that the jets don't need to go after cousins or draft a a QB on round 1 next year?

 

[jetgreen13]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

This is simply not correct, I keep hearing it but it is not correct.

There are 3 types of players.

- New young guys still on the rookie deal who have not been tainted by the nfl, they will play hard all the time.  (guys like Lee, Adams, May)

- Older vets hanging on or vets with a chip on their shoulder because they were passed by in the draft. (guys like kerly, kearse Anderson, Mccown)

- Then come the most important players, the best players on your team who have been paid big dollars and who you expect to make the biggest difference for your team.  (guys like mo wilk, winters, richardson, willaims, revis, skrine, gilchrist)

Bowles has totally and utterly failed to get these guys to play hard for him and the team.

yeah, getting kids still on their rookie deals to play hard is not much of an accomplishment, if at all.. more like par for the course..

but man did you nail it with how bowles has been epic fail with veterans making big money..

 

[Dink and Drunk]

33 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So the most valid reason for playing one of 2 young and unknown QBs is something you don't want to hear?  Sounds about right for someone who thinks that we still have a shot at the playoffs right now and is ok with trotting out a 38 year old never-was at QB.  

I'll be sure to make a mental note that the trio of Sunshine Sh*tters has become a quartet.

Just because you need more info to be convinced does not mean that Todd Bowles and the FO needs more info. Do you want your franchise to make moves to to appease the whims of the fans? Yes they could give the rest of the offense meaningless minutes just so the fans would agree with the franchises assessment. It would make the weekly film reviews way easier.

Or, you could put a competent QB out their so your other offensive players have some chance of gaining more real game experience. I think the FO and HC is making the correct, yet unpopular move. @Larz is correct. 

[Dink and Drunk]

Just now, jetgreen13 said:

yeah, getting kids still on their rookie deals to play hard is not much of an accomplishment, if at all.. more like par for the course..

but man did you nail it with how bowles has been epic fail with veterans making big money..

 

Yet trading away players who are not performing their role or putting in the required effort is how you create a good team culture. E.g. Jamie Collins.

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, Larz said:

What's the goal?

Is there scenario in your mind where petty shows he is a franchise QB, and that the jets don't need to go after cousins or draft a a QB on round 1 next year?

 

The .0000000000000001% chance that Petty has to become a part of this teams future is still higher than Josh McCowns and, with the playoffs totally out of sight, the focus should be figuring out what players actually have a future here and which ones don't.  If it loses us games that the guy who belongs in a retirement home can manage not to f*ck up enough to win, who gives a f*ck?  We aren't going to the playoffs.  Trotting him out there is absolutely meaningless.  Just as meaningless as it was week 1.

McCown. Has. No. Future. Here.

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Just because you need more info to be convinced does not mean that Todd Bowles and the FO needs more info. Do you want your franchise to make moves to to appease the whims of the fans? Yes they could give the rest of the offense meaningless minutes just so the fans would agree with the franchises assessment. It would make the weekly film reviews way easier.

Or, you could put a competent QB out their so your other offensive players have some chance of gaining more real game experience. I think the FO and HC is making the correct, yet unpopular move. @Larz is correct. 

See my most recent reply to Larz, because I'm not typing the same thing twice.

Trotting out McCown is not remotely close to being the correct move. 

[jetgreen13]

5 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Yet trading away players who are not performing their role or putting in the required effort is how you create a good team culture. E.g. Jamie Collins.

5 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

you wanna trade HCs??

[Dink and Drunk]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

See my most recent reply to Larz, because I'm not typing the same thing twice.

Trotting out McCown is not remotely close to being the correct move. 

I read it, you still failed to address my argument. Let me try again:

With a JAG QB your team can run a competent offense, which is helpful to the development of OL, WR, RB, TE. He can call audibles in response to coverage. Receivers can run option routes. The offensive line and QB can adjust protections in response to potential blitzes. The team can attempt to execute game plans that might actually work. The team can keep up motivation while fighting for a long shot playoff spot. The key is about non-qb offensive player development. It is not about "learning how to win". It is "learning how to play in a competent NFL offense".

I have yet to see an argument against this. The ~0% chance that Petty is the future is not worth sacrificing the development of everyone else on offense.

[Larz]

14 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The .0000000000000001% chance that Petty has to become a part of this teams future is still higher than Josh McCowns and, with the playoffs totally out of sight, the focus should be figuring out what players actually have a future here and which ones don't.  If it loses us games that the guy who belongs in a retirement home can manage not to f*ck up enough to win, who gives a f*ck?  We aren't going to the playoffs.  Trotting him out there is absolutely meaningless.  Just as meaningless as it was week 1.

McCown. Has. No. Future. Here.

The Jets know what they have in Petty

There is nothing wrong with being a backup

Benching a healthy starter for a backup before you are mathematically eliminated just doesn't happen.

Don't worry, you probably only have 3 weeks to get to see what the Jets already know lol

 

 

[Mogglez]

12 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

I read it, you still failed to address my argument. Let me try again:

With a JAG QB your team can run a competent offense, which is helpful to the development of OL, WR, RB, TE. He can call audibles in response to coverage. Receivers can run option routes. The offensive line and QB can adjust protections in response to potential blitzes. The team can attempt to execute game plans that might actually work. The team can keep up motivation while fighting for a long shot playoff spot. The key is about non-qb offensive player development. It is not about "learning how to win". It is "learning how to play in a competent NFL offense".

I have yet to see an argument against this. The ~0% chance that Petty is the future is not worth sacrificing the development of everyone else on offense.

So what members of our dogsh*t OLine have developed because there's currently a thread discussing how piss poor they are performing.

What RBs have developed?

WRs?

McCown constantly locks on to his WRs missing wide open guys who actually did run crisp routes and breaks, can't set proper protections,  and misses blitz pick ups, so all of these things you say he can do, he doesn't actually do and that's your reasoning for starting him.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Fine

Considering his college career, age, last years performance, make the case for Petty.  Please be specific. I'm really hoping you have something other than he's the backup who just needs reps or we need to find out who he is, lol

Remember when I wanted to bet you $5 that McCown would start 10+ games and you were like “no way, hater”?

[Mogglez]

11 minutes ago, Larz said:

The Jets know what they have in Petty

There is nothing wrong with being a backup

Benching a healthy starter for a backup before you are mathematically eliminated just doesn't happen.

Don't worry, you probably only have 3 weeks to get to see what the Jets already know lol

And it will be 10+ games too late, likely costing us vital draft position.

I literally cannot wait to see you and the Sunshine Crew bugging out when we don't get a top QB prospect in the 1st or Kirk Cousins like you're all so convinced is going to happen. The spins coming from your keyboards are going to be magical.

[Dink and Drunk]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So what members of our dogsh*t OLine have developed because there's currently a thread discussing how piss poor they are performing.

What RBs have developed?

WRs?

McCown constantly locks on to his WRs missing wide open guys who actually did run crisp routes and breaks, can't set proper protections,  and misses blitz pick ups, so all of these things you say he can do, he doesn't actually do and that's your reasoning for starting him.

McCown has been imperfect. The Jets have still played well enough to be in games. Even in their 6 losses they were close to winning many of them. It's not like you guys have been the Browns. I bet their were plenty of coaching moments.

The statements from the FO imply that the young QBs are "AAA" level. I don't think it is that hard to imagine that those young QBs would be making the bolded mistakes a lower rate than McCown, even if he is just a JAG. If the probability of Petty starter quality is low enough, I think the Jets are making the right call. 

[Larz]

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Remember when I wanted to bet you $5 that McCown would start 10+ games and you were like “no way, hater”?

That wasn't the bet, it was preseason reps and  remember you were too chicken to take the bet.

 

[Larz]

28 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

And it will be 10+ games too late, likely costing us vital draft position.

I literally cannot wait to see you and the Sunshine Crew bugging out when we don't get a top QB prospect in the 1st or Kirk Cousins like you're all so convinced is going to happen. The spins coming from your keyboards are going to be magical.

I've been saying the jets are going to draft Fitzpatrick for weeks

I don't have any idea what you are arguing here

I think you need to take a break

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Dink and Drunk said:

I read it, you still failed to address my argument. Let me try again:

With a JAG QB your team can run a competent offense, which is helpful to the development of OL, WR, RB, TE. He can call audibles in response to coverage. Receivers can run option routes. The offensive line and QB can adjust protections in response to potential blitzes. The team can attempt to execute game plans that might actually work. The team can keep up motivation while fighting for a long shot playoff spot. The key is about non-qb offensive player development. It is not about "learning how to win". It is "learning how to play in a competent NFL offense".

I have yet to see an argument against this. The ~0% chance that Petty is the future is not worth sacrificing the development of everyone else on offense.

Counter point: your leading receivers are Kearse, Kerley and ASJ, who are veterans that don’t need to learn route-running. Robbie Anderson runs streaks all day, and he can do that with or without McCown. Hansen and Stewart are buried on the bench behind the aforementioned veterans. Your RB’s are old, except for McGuire who plays maybe ten snaps per. The only young player on the OL is Brandon Shell, who stinks regardless of who the QB is. Your argument is valid if, in fact, the young skill players were playing, but they’re not. There’s a non-zero chance that Petty can become a QB worthy of a roster spot moving forward. There is a zero chance that McCown is on the roster in 2020,and if he’s on the roster in 2018-2019, it’s because the organization has the memory of a fruit fly.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

I've been saying the jets are going to draft Fitzpatrick for weeks

I don't have any idea what you are arguing here

I think you need to take a break

Sorry for not stalking the sh*t out of your posts I guess?

So if the Jets are drafting Minkah, who is this magical savior of a QB you Sunshiners expect us to find?  The guy who is gonna make our already "bright future" even brighter?  The guy that will make 17 weeks of playing Josh f*cking McCown "the right move"?

[Dink and Drunk]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Counter point: your leading receivers are Kearse, Kerley and ASJ, who are veterans that don’t need to learn route-running. Robbie Anderson runs streaks all day, and he can do that with or without McCown. Hansen and Stewart are buried on the bench behind the aforementioned veterans. Your RB’s are old, except for McGuire who plays maybe ten snaps per. The only young player on the OL is Brandon Shell, who stinks regardless of who the QB is. Your argument is valid if, in fact, the young skill players were playing, but they’re not. There’s a non-zero chance that Petty can become a QB worthy of a roster spot moving forward. There is a zero chance that McCown is on the roster in 2020,and if he’s on the roster in 2018-2019, it’s because the organization has the memory of a fruit fly.

Thank you for addressing it my claim. Nice post! It was insightful beyond the context of this argument. Perhaps it is not worth it.

I checked the snap count totals, Stewart and Hansen both have ~19% of snaps on the season. Anderson plays 80%. He is often in the X-receiver role, right? 

What do you think about the TEs? That group has been impressive IMO. ASJ might have more to grow despite being in year 4.

[ljr]

13 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Thank you for addressing it my claim. Nice post! It was insightful beyond the context of this argument. Perhaps it is not worth it.

I checked the snap count totals, Stewart and Hansen both have ~19% of snaps on the season. Anderson plays 80%. He is often in the X-receiver role, right? 

What do you think about the TEs? That group has been impressive IMO. ASJ might have more to grow despite being in year 4.

ASJ has 1 more TD than his stats indicate ... Would love to ink him in for several years at fair $$$.

our TE group has been a 0 for the last several years ... Having any impact at all this year has been a glass of icy cold water to a fan base dying of thirst !

[SenorGato]

Shucks, I really expect things to be different with Petty or Hackenberg our there.

[BurnleyJet]

2 hours ago, ljr said:

ASJ has 1 more TD than his stats indicate ... Would love to ink him in for several years at fair $$$.

our TE group has been a 0 for the last several years ... Having any impact at all this year has been a glass of icy cold water to a fan base dying of thirst !

Very high on my re-sign wish list, he's still young, and he can play.

This must happen, he looks to have turned things around in his life.

[BigO]

6 hours ago, Dink and Drunk said:

I read it, you still failed to address my argument. Let me try again:

With a JAG QB your team can run a competent offense, which is helpful to the development of OL, WR, RB, TE. He can call audibles in response to coverage. Receivers can run option routes. The offensive line and QB can adjust protections in response to potential blitzes. The team can attempt to execute game plans that might actually work. The team can keep up motivation while fighting for a long shot playoff spot. The key is about non-qb offensive player development. It is not about "learning how to win". It is "learning how to play in a competent NFL offense".

I have yet to see an argument against this. The ~0% chance that Petty is the future is not worth sacrificing the development of everyone else on offense.

Argument - he sucks 4-6 soon to be 4-8

[Dink and Drunk]

1 hour ago, BigO said:

Argument - he sucks 4-6 soon to be 4-8

Sorry to say for the pro-tank crowd, but I think you have a shot at finishing with between 6-8 wins:

I think you might beat the Chiefs. The Chiefs have been exposed a bit, and I think the book is out on how to beat them. Of course, they might reinvent themselves. But until they do, this is what teams have been doing. If you drop back and play soft zone, you can take away much of their big play ability. Despite one mistake right before half-time, the Cowboys were able to do that for the most part. The Chiefs have been using massive explosive plays to gain yards. When you force them to sustain drives, Alex Smith is exposed. He cannot "Dink and Drunk" to consistently get first downs, and the offense will stall out.

The games where the Jets can establish some running game their offense functions competently. Think about that Bills game. The Chiefs are ranked 29th in rushing yards allowed per game. If the Jets can win up front they have a chance.

I think you beat the Broncos. The Jets seem like a much better team at this point, and better set up for the future. The one positive for the Broncos is that Brock started playing a bit better, and Sanders had a nice game, against the Patriots. Yet they never were able to score TD's in the redzone (well they got one late), and I think the Jets D can achieve a similar level of success. Denver's defense looks like it is some combination of very beat up, over the hill, and checked out for the season. I think the Patriots provided a very nice game plan for the Jets to attack the Denver defense. I assume your OC will watch the tape and be able to replicate the game plan (some might feel that is too big of an assumption, but I will give him a shot).

If I were the Jets OC, I would use 12 (2 TEs) personnel to get Denver into base defense, and spread the field. Exploit their poor coverage LBs and safeties in coverage. Basically do what the Pats did. I am looking forward to seeing 1. If I am correct in my diagnosis of Denver's situation, 2. the Jets are able to use an offensive game plan like this.

Saints and Panthers are long shots. I think you need those teams not to show up. You need a "trap game". The Panthers seem to play poorly once Cam starts throwing a temper tantrum. Maybe he will throw an early pick and start yelling at his receiver. I think both teams are pretty large long shots. But any given Sunday.

Looking ahead to the final two games:

I think you could also beat the Chargers, for similar reasons as the Chiefs. They are bad against the run.   

The Patriots will be quite hard to beat, as they are playing way better since you last played them close. If they have secured the #1 seed already, you might face Hoyer. I think it will be a hard game either way.

So I think 4-12 is quite unlikely. I would guess 6-10, maybe 7-9. I guess it also depends on if/when you give up and put in Petty, how below JAG level he is, and if the Patriots have anything to play for in week 17.

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Sorry to say for the pro-tank crowd, but I think you have a shot at finishing with between 6-8 wins:

I think you might beat the Chiefs. The Chiefs have been exposed a bit, and I think the book is out on how to beat them. Of course, they might reinvent themselves. But until they do, this is what teams have been doing. If you drop back and play soft zone, you can take away much of their big play ability. Despite one mistake right before half-time, the Cowboys were able to do that for the most part. The Chiefs have been using massive explosive plays to gain yards. When you force them to sustain drives, Alex Smith is exposed. He cannot "Dink and Drunk" to consistently get first downs, and the offense will stall out.

The games where the Jets can establish some running game their offense functions competently. Think about that Bills game. The Chiefs are ranked 29th in rushing yards allowed per game. If the Jets can win up front they have a chance.

I think you beat the Broncos. The Jets seem like a much better team at this point, and better set up for the future. The one positive for the Broncos is that Brock started playing a bit better, and Sanders had a nice game, against the Patriots. Yet they never were able to score TD's in the redzone (well they got one late), and I think the Jets D can achieve a similar level of success. Denver's defense looks like it is some combination of very beat up, over the hill, and checked out for the season. I think the Patriots provided a very nice game plan for the Jets to attack the Denver defense. I assume your OC will watch the tape and be able to replicate the game plan (some might feel that is too big of an assumption, but I will give him a shot).

If I were the Jets OC, I would use 12 (2 TEs) personnel to get Denver into base defense, and spread the field. Exploit their poor coverage LBs and safeties in coverage. Basically do what the Pats did. I am looking forward to seeing 1. If I am correct in my diagnosis of Denver's situation, 2. the Jets are able to use an offensive game plan like this.

Saints and Panthers are long shots. I think you need those teams not to show up. You need a "trap game". The Panthers seem to play poorly once Cam starts throwing a temper tantrum. Maybe he will throw an early pick and start yelling at his receiver. I think both teams are pretty large long shots. But any given Sunday.

Looking ahead to the final two games:

I think you could also beat the Chargers, for similar reasons as the Chiefs. They are bad against the run.   

The Patriots will be quite hard to beat, as they are playing way better since you last played them close. If they have secured the #1 seed already, you might face Hoyer. I think it will be a hard game either way.

So I think 4-12 is quite unlikely. I would guess 6-10, maybe 7-9. I guess it also depends on if/when you give up and put in Petty, how below JAG level he is, and if the Patriots have anything to play for in week 17.

So last Sunday impressed you, huh?

[Dink and Drunk]

37 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

So last Sunday impressed you, huh?

As I said, if the Jets can't win in the running game, they lose the game. McCown is exposed in obvious passing situations. Check out the yards per carry in the Bills win or win against he Jags. Your backs were putting up high yards per carry.

 

Did you read the analysis, or simply disagree with the punch line? 

[mkajet01]

The starter is a 38-year old JAG leading a 4-6 team.  The backups are 26 and 22 respectively, with 4th and 2nd round picks used on them.  It doesn't matter how much they suck; it's more than reasonable to demand that at least one of the younger guys see the field.  
But yeah, let's keep sending McCown out there in a non-playoff season.  That accomplishes a lot.  

I agree with you petty or hack should play if not they must be so bad Maccagnan doesn't want fans to see how he screwed up these 2 draft picks

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[Jetsfan80]

Just now, mkajet01 said:

I agree with you petty or hack should play if not they must be so bad Maccagnan doesn't want fans to see how he screwed up these 2 draft picks

Yep.  Both Macc and Bowles are in full self-preservation mode.  Which is a great place for your GM and HC to be, right?  Totally secures our future nicely. 

[mkajet01]

It's gonna be a looooong bye week.
Don't worry and hold your horses everyone,  few more losses and all of our wishes will come true. Petty and Hackenburg will play don't think they won't play. I personally don't think that either one is the solution, but they'll get their try outs once more.
Losing fixes everything.

I love petty sic kif hearing he's 4th Rd pick! He hasn't played because moron coach is dillusional & thinks he's has a superbowl team

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