Would you be okay if Mac doubled down on QB's in the draft?

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, Paradis said:

well then I challenge this "assure" of yours, because I do think for the price of what Cousins will get in guarantees for the first 3 years of his contract, will in fact pay for an oline. Or an assortment of pieces. I'm not talking about signing the greatest ensemble since the avengers, but you can do some real damage. I just don't think Kirk is worth that price. Flat out. 

Well this is the other part that’s getting glossed over.

Cousins isn’t getting 1-2 years guaranteed where we draft someone this year to take over in 2019 or 2020. It bears no resemblance to re-signing Fitz (other than they’re both veteran FA QBs). Fitz was a $6m/year QB who turned down $8m/year and we eventually paid $12m for 1 season. Cousins is getting in the $85m range of full guarantees. No one’s guaranteeing nearly $100m to a FA QB and then touching a QB in the first 5 rounds a month later.

Truth is while he’s certainly a better QB than McCown, he’s not night & day better than McCown’s 2017 season. He’ll be a little better than McCown2017 for longer, just because of their respective ages. It’s also a guess that the disparity will be as great as 2017 with Beachum protecting his blind side instead of Trent Williams (not to mention the rest of our garbage OL, that doesn’t have a single average starter on it, let alone an above-average or elite one).

It’s not that we can’t build a winner with Cousins making that much. It’s that the margin of error is so low. And if we have the need to sign a Cousins in FA, it’s because our GM has basically accepted that he can’t assess such talent — specifically, he’s admitting he can’t find a FQB in a draft with a bunch of QB talent coming out. Well what, then, makes him competent enough to build a surrounding team with the minuscule margin of error that a $24-30m Cousins brings, following his prior 3 years of repeated gaffes? 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Who’s the best player on the Jets defense? And is that guy even a top 20 player at his position league wide?

If he is, it’s borderline, and it’s by name recognition and draft slot more than actual play.

Leo would qualify, but then again there may not be 20 3-4 DEs in the league. He’s a good player; he’s just not the elite and consistent game-changer you think you’re getting when you burn the 6th overall pick on a player who doesn’t put points on the board.

[kelly]

17 hours ago, The Crusher said:

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

cheers ~ ~ 

[SenorGato]

12 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Cousins is a good QB. The Jets roster as it currently stands is as bad as its been since the mid 90's. He's not good enough to offset the roster. We have nothing at edge, nothing at CB, the oline blows and no backs. Hell, if Im Kirk Cousins I'd take less money to play elsewhere.

Yeah but you also think Revis was good for like 40 seconds a thousand years ago. Cousins is 30 and has been waiting to hit FA for a while now. He’s not doing it to give any of these scumbags a discount. 

From there the Jets have a DL, a couple strong DBs in Adams and Maye, money to play with past signing Cousins....This is the NFL not the MLB, you don’t need to drop 5 years to build the perfect ******* roster. 

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Jeebus you’re not getting a whole new OL in FA for that money. You understand that these pieces have to exist in FA, right? And that you’re paying FA prices for anyone in FA, not just Cousins? 

Pay Cousins. Signing him is no different that what they have already been doing in FA at QB except he’s a wildly better player and still younger than the previous FA QBs. 

No dude. Disagree again. You're being dramatic.

We're not talking about signing the Joe Thomas of LTs, the Mawae of Centres and Hutchinson of Guards. You CAN field a serviceable Oline with the money i'm talking about, obviously a couple pieces will stick from 2017.... Every year -- every damn year -- there's opportunities to stock your Oline with  a few Alex Macks, Andre Whitworths. 

Signing Cousins means a commitment on offensive from top to bottom. And a lot of money. No thanks. Not for that guy. Not on this team.

[Paradis]

50 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 Cousins is 30 and has been waiting to hit FA for a while now. He’s not doing it to give any of these scumbags a discount. 

You're waaaaaaaaaay over simplifying. Just because our offer has an extra 5-10 million guaranteed (and why the fck do i want to have fork out the extra cheddar) doesn't auto-decided Kirk's landing spot.

If you were Kirk, would you really want to play for the Jets? LOL 

 

[Augustiniak]

59 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah but you also think Revis was good for like 40 seconds a thousand years ago. Cousins is 30 and has been waiting to hit FA for a while now. He’s not doing it to give any of these scumbags a discount. 

From there the Jets have a DL, a couple strong DBs in Adams and Maye, money to play with past signing Cousins....This is the NFL not the MLB, you don’t need to drop 5 years to build the perfect ******* roster. 

cousins seems like a good guy, sensible guy.  he's made a ton of money already and should make a lot more.  if he cares about winning, he should do the following:

1) go to the afc

2) avoid the afc east b/c he won't win the division there

3) go to a team with a decent to good team around him and a front office that will know how to use him

teams left:  jaguars, broncos

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

No dude. Disagree again. You're being dramatic.

We're not talking about signing the Joe Thomas of LTs, the Mawae of Centres and Hutchinson of Guards. You CAN field a serviceable Oline with the money i'm talking about, obviously a couple pieces will stick from 2017.... Every year -- every damn year -- there's opportunities to stock your Oline with  a few Alex Macks, Andre Whitworths. 

Signing Cousins means a commitment on offensive from top to bottom. And a lot of money. No thanks. Not for that guy. Not on this team.

If those guys are so common in FA then how does signing Cousins stop the Jets of landing someone? 

I don’t even know what a commitment in offensive from top to bottom even means. All this is is signing a clear multi-year upgrade at the only position of need that really really matters to even play the same as the contenders. 

[SenorGato]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You're waaaaaaaaaay over simplifying. Just because our offer has an extra 5-10 million guaranteed (and why the fck do i want to have fork out the extra cheddar) doesn't auto-decided Kirk's landing spot.

If you were Kirk, would you really want to play for the Jets? LOL 

 

All of this is nonsense. 

[Philc1]

13 hours ago, SenorGato said:

None of this is happening

Thread is feeling bump able 

[Paradis]

20 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

All of this is nonsense. 

how so? I said-- 

A) you're over simply the variables that Kirk and his Agent will use to make decide where he plays

B) playing QB for us is not desirable.

My pants are full of sense.

[SenorGato]

33 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

cousins seems like a good guy, sensible guy.  he's made a ton of money already and should make a lot more.  if he cares about winning, he should do the following:

1) go to the afc

2) avoid the afc east b/c he won't win the division there

3) go to a team with a decent to good team around him and a front office that will know how to use him

teams left:  jaguars, broncos

You can win the AFC East. The only QB better than him in this division is a decade older. 

 

 

[rangerous]

maybe they need to do what chicago did.  sign a guy like mccarron and then use the top pick on a qb

[Augustiniak]

33 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

You can win the AFC East. The only QB better than him in this division is a decade older. 

 

 

if you are cousins, and you're 30 and you're going to sign somewhere for what should be the 3-5 best years of your career, you're not going to the afc east when brady is still winning super bowls.

[Spoot-Face]

7 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Stop being tedious, they’ve drafted QBs after signing FA starters at the same position. Slap whatever descriptor you want on them - long term, stop gap it doesn’t matter - signing a FA QB has not stopped them from using a high pick on a QB. They’re not giving Cousins as a lifetime contract in FA.

Money in this league--especially guaranteed money--is not a tedious matter. You should know that simply by paying attention to the Jets the last 6 years. Stop comparing the signings of the likes of Fitz and McCown like they are comparable to the would-be signing of Cousins.

I suppose you think that signing Morris Claiborne to 1 year/5 million w/ 2 million guaranteed is equivalent to signing Buster Skrine for 4 years/25 million w/ 13 million guaranteed, too.

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

if you are cousins, and you're 30 and you're going to sign somewhere for what should be the 3-5 best years of your career, you're not going to the afc east when brady is still winning super bowls.

So he doesn’t come to the AFC East because it’s a lock Brady is winning SBs from 41-45? Why go anywhere then? Why not quit NFL the foozeball?

 

[SenorGato]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

Money in this league--especially guaranteed money--is not a tedious matter. You should know that simply by paying attention to the Jets the last 6 years. Stop comparing the signings of the likes of Fitz and McCown like they are comparable to the would-be signing of Cousins.

I suppose you think that signing Morris Claiborne to 1 year/5 million w/ 2 million guaranteed is equivalent to signing Buster Skrine for 4 years/25 million w/ 13 million guaranteed, too.

Not sure if this is intended to be deep or something but it really doesn’t make sense. McCown and Fitzgerald only compare to Cousins in that they are FA signings at QB. From there Cousins is an insanely better NFL QB than either of them ever have or will be. 

[UntouchableCrew]

Zero problem doubling down on QB. It's the most important position and it should be the most aggressively addressed.

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Not sure if this is intended to be deep or something but it really doesn’t make sense. McCown and Fitzgerald only compare to Cousins in that they are FA signings at QB. From there Cousins is an insanely better NFL QB than either of them ever have or will be. 

If you can't see how guaranteed money makes a difference, than I can't help you.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

If you can't see how guaranteed money makes a difference, than I can't help you.

You can't

lol

[Jetsplayer21]

16 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Drafting two qbs would be by far the smartest thing Macc has ever done.  Hack and Petty should both be cut

 

We can plug the other holes with the the $60 mil in cap room

Cap room will help in short term future. We have a ton of holes because of doubling down in 1 area or wasting pics. Two safeties 1st and 2nd round. Wasted 2nd round pick yr before. Knowing Mac it would just be 2 more qbs be failed at. If we don’t have a good structure for a new qb to step into, it won’t matter anyway.

  Sanchez stepped into a perfect scenario for a rookie. Team literally carried him while they hope he learned and improved as time went on. We know that didn’t happen.

[SenorGato]

20 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

If you can't see how guaranteed money makes a difference, than I can't help you.

Man you really are tedious. You’re not making a point by being vague and playing coy. Cousins will make more than Fitzgerald and McCown. This isn’t groundbreaking nor is it actually a reason to not go after him as he is a much much much much better player than either at their peak.

19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You can't

lol

Did you even read JiF’s post before? Because the response didn’t fit the post. 

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Man you really are tedious. You’re not making a point by being vague and playing coy.

I've actually been pretty concise about my point, dude.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Did you even read JiF’s post before? Because the response didn’t fit the post. 

I generally don't read things written by other people. Takes too much time away from posting my own stuff.

[SenorGato]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

I've actually been pretty concise about my point, dude.

I still don’t even know what your point is so this is hard to imagine. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I've actually been pretty concise about my point, dude.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Know what's not vague? Replies like "nonsense" and "[your post is] "just noise" without a retort any more meaningful than, "I don't care. I want it." 

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

I still don’t even know what your point is so this is hard to imagine. 

I've noticed.

That's why I'm calling it a draw.

[RutgersJetFan]

15 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Man you really are tedious.

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Know what's not vague? Replies like "nonsense" and "[your post is] "just noise" without a retort any more meaningful than, "I don't care. I want it." 

To be fair, I'm sure most people are just intimidated by your verbosity.

It's like Bambi v.s. Godzilla. At some point, all you can do is just stand there and watch as the thunderous foot of supreme grammar and unrelenting punctuation comes crashing down upon your cute, fuzzy little head.

[#27TheDominator]

Doubling down at QB in the draft, as in 1st round/2nd round, does not make sense.  If you pick a guy that high it is to be "the Guy."  You don't want to have someone nipping at his heels.  I think Maccagnan feels this way because he has literally seen to it that his sh*tty 2nd rounder has zero to little competition for 2 years.  You can pick a now guy and a developmental guy, but that is not the same thing. 

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Doubling down at QB in the draft, as in 1st round/2nd round, does not make sense.  If you pick a guy that high it is to be "the Guy."  You don't want to have someone nipping at his heels.  I think Maccagnan feels this way because he has literally seen to it that his sh*tty 2nd rounder has zero to little competition for 2 years.  You can pick a now guy and a developmental guy, but that is not the same thing. 

Agreed. I wouldn't really want him to go QB in rounds 1 and 2. More like rounds 1 and 4.

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Know what's not vague? Replies like "nonsense" and "[your post is] "just noise" without a retort any more meaningful than, "I don't care. I want it." 

It’s a good thing I’m not being vague. It’s not a vague situation. The Jets desperately need  a QB to even play the same game as competitive teams, a prime aged easily above average NFL passer is likely to be available for just money, the Jets have that money with room to spare...It’s a perfectly logical and rational fit step by step. 

I’m sorry it may offend you or whatever but the arguments against Cousins do not make sense. How we feel about his aura or whatever doesn’t override that he’s a proven well above average NFL passer who twice in the past three years has been one of the top 7 or so passers by DVOA, QBR, and DYAR. We have all acknowledged it will cost plenty of money, but beyond that no one can actually explain how this immediately and unquestionably prohibits further improvements of the roster. 

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

To be fair, I'm sure most people are just intimidated by your verbosity.

It's like Bambi v.s. Godzilla. At some point, all you can do is just stand there and watch as the thunderous foot of supreme grammar and unrelenting punctuation comes crashing down upon your cute, fuzzy little head.

Oh stop, I’m very nice. 

[Latinlawyer]

What about Alex Smith as an FA? If not Alex Smith then Cousins or Baker Mayfield and Falk in the draft?

LL

 

[Philc1]

On 12/13/2017 at 2:54 PM, Jetsplayer21 said:

Cap room will help in short term future. We have a ton of holes because of doubling down in 1 area or wasting pics. Two safeties 1st and 2nd round. Wasted 2nd round pick yr before. Knowing Mac it would just be 2 more qbs be failed at. If we don’t have a good structure for a new qb to step into, it won’t matter anyway.

  Sanchez stepped into a perfect scenario for a rookie. Team literally carried him while they hope he learned and improved as time went on. We know that didn’t happen.

Drafting 2 safeties in the first 2 rounds was an asinine mistake

 

Mac has no idea how to evaluate qbs so good point we would end up with another Petty and Hackentard