Alex Smith to Redskins [MERGED]

[bla bla bla]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

What's sorta getting blurred is guaranteed vs not. Reading the article, I think it's two separate things, 53mm guaranteed and then 2nd most money per...if you added the other 2 or 3 non guarantee years. As in, the first two years would be guaranteed (53mm) and then maybe another 2 or 3 not. I think he'd have wanted more years guaranteed thus more total money guaranteed even if it were less rate per year. 

Bingo, so then why did he not counter offer?

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

What's sorta getting blurred is guaranteed vs not. Reading the article, I think it's two separate things, 53mm guaranteed and then 2nd most money per...if you added the other 2 or 3 non guarantee years. As in, the first two years would be guaranteed (53mm) and then maybe another 2 or 3 not. I think he'd have wanted more years guaranteed thus more total money guaranteed even if it were less rate per year. 

The $53 million garaunteed was $1 million less than what Manning signed with the Broncos some 5 years previously. That was deliberate, hence the breakdown of negotations. 

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The Rolling Stones are still touring and released an album in 2017 of old radio recordings and unreleased material. 

Try again, Newb. 

Eminem is releasing newly recorded music that is ruining his legacy.

Rolling Stones are releasing old music and unreleased material from back in the day which will still resonate with fans and bring the same amount of success as the previously released one songs..because they are basically old songs theirselves. You don’t see the vast difference in those situations?

LOL so what again, am I having to try again at? Make you look clueless?. Well it works out pretty good on its own so..try probably wouldn’t be my favorite word of choice.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

Yes, the Redskins tried last season to sign Kirk to a long term deal. The year before that they placed the franchise tag on him to make sure he could duplicate his performance. The offer they last made to him was to pay him the 2nd highest contract in league history, what part of that leads you to believe they didn't want him? Kirk is the one that didn't sign the deal or try to work towards common ground. 

I believe that if they really wanted him, they would have made him the highest paid QB in the league, probably well before last offseason. I don't think a team lets a potential franchise QB get near free agency in the modern era, unless there are reservations. I'm not saying that these reservations were/are justified. I'm just arguing that they obviously exist. 

To be clear, I'm quite confident that, by now, Cousins is eager to get out of Washington, but this has no bearing on the reality that Washington likely wasn't as crazy about him in 2015-2016 as some of you guys are now. 

[JetFreak89]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

Bingo, so then why did he not counter offer?

Exactly, which is why the "Franchise QB's don't hit FA" argument is weak and simplistic. The bad contract negotiations are mitigating circumstances which turn this into a Brees, Manning, ATL trading Brett Favre situation. 

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Cleveland is still a mess so I don't think he'll go there. 

The broncos are a team on the decline. 

Arizona is interesting since they play in good weather and have cap space and David Johnson returning.

But Minny is the real Challenger here IF they want him. They have cap space (although they may need some of that to current players up for new deals or close to it) and have a team on the cusp of a super bowl.

I think the Jets are big time players in the Cousins sweepstakes but that's assuming they're even interested. For all we know, they are all in on one of the kids in the draft. 

 

Cleveland has a little bit of Jags in them with some decent pieces. They could probably trade back a few spots and still get Barkley and the top OT or WR. 

[bla bla bla]

Just now, SenorGato said:

The $53 million garaunteed was $1 million less than what Manning signed with the Broncos. That was deliberate, hence the breakdown of negotations. 

No the breakdown was years guaranteed. They offered him $53M 

2018 Franchise Tag $24M + 2019 Transition Tag $28M = $52M 

They basically wanted to pay him like he were on the tag for 2 years they wanted to control him going into that 3rd year. Kirk realized this and that is one of the big reasons he doesn't want to be there.

[HessStation]

8 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Bingo, so then why did he not counter offer?

My guess is after going back and forth over prior years his agent drew a line in the sand? 

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Yep. Washington definitely thinks Cousins is a top 10 QB. Definitely. Why else would they trade their 29 year old stud for a 33 year old check down Charlie?

Just a a thought. 

[HessStation]

9 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

No the breakdown was years guaranteed. They offered him $53M 

2018 Franchise Tag $24M + 2019 Transition Tag $28M = $52M 

They basically wanted to pay him like he were on the tag for 2 years they wanted to control him going into that 3rd year. Kirk realized this and that is one of the big reasons he doesn't want to be there.

Yeah that all makes sense. 

I'm just interested to try and figure why Redskins wouldn't offer him a long term contract...i.e. more than 2 yrs guaranteed

And if Smith is 4 for 94 what in that is guaranteed. 

Alex Smith is filthy rich btw. Dudes raked for his mediocrity 

[Fantasy Island]

Man they are giving up a lot for Kirk's backup.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Rolling Stones are releasing old music and unreleased material from back in the day which will still resonate with fans and bring the same amount of success as the previously released one songs..because they are basically old songs theirselves. You don’t see the vast difference in those situations?

See, you just aren't quite as clever as you think you are. My point is that Eminem releasing sh*tty music now is no more damaging to the utter brilliance of the Marshall Mathers LP than the Rolling Stones sleepwalking through their concerts in 2017 is to their classic music. 

As a result, to answer your question, while there most certainly are contextual differences in the two examples posited, unfortunately for you, my newly acquainted newb, the differences are not relevant to the discussion at hand. 

So yea, try again. 

[SenorGato]

11 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

No the breakdown was years guaranteed. They offered him $53M 

2018 Franchise Tag $24M + 2019 Transition Tag $28M = $52M 

They basically wanted to pay him like he were on the tag for 2 years they wanted to control him going into that 3rd year. Kirk realized this and that is one of the big reasons he doesn't want to be there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoHA-oGQksI

Starting about 90 seconds in...It’s about the money. The years will be there for the team to pick up those options, it’s that they lowballed him with garaunteed money. At $53 they’re going for the angle that Peyton Manning was better and therefore deserved more money. Cousin’s angle is that the contract was signed years prior in a different cap market by an injured QB in his late 30s coming off career lows. 

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Exactly, which is why the "Franchise QB's don't hit FA" argument is weak and simplistic. 

How so?

In the history of NFL free agency, which franchise QBs, without either having serious injury concerns (Cousins is healthy) or being well past their primes (Cousins is 29), were ever allowed to hit free agency? Which ones didn't eventually resign with their own teams? Seriously, I want you to count. How many?

[Fantasy Island]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

See, you just aren't quite as clever as you think you are. My point is that Eminem releasing sh*tty music now is no more damaging to the utter brilliance of the Marshall Mathers LP than the Rolling Stones sleepwalking through their concerts in 2017 is to their classic music. 

As a result, to answer your question, while there most certainly are contextual differences in the two examples posited, unfortunately for you, my newly acquainted newb, the differences are not relevant to the discussion at hand. 

So yea, try again. 

Mick Jagger takes a dump and it is better than anything m and m has put out.  Moby got the last laugh.

[detectivekimble]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Right. His career record is 26-30 tho. 

And they would have been A LOT worse without him.  They were 7-25 in the two years before he became the starter.

2009: 4-12

2010: 6-10

2011: 5-11

2012: 10-6

2013: 3-13

2014: 4-12

Really?  This is the Redskins we're talking about.  In 2015, the Skins averaged more points per game than the Packers.  You know, that team with a QB named Aaron Rodgers.

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

See, you just aren't quite as clever as you think you are. My point is that Eminem releasing sh*tty music now is no more damaging to the utter brilliance of the Marshall Mathers LP than the Rolling Stones sleepwalking through their concerts in 2017 is to their classic music. 

As a result, to answer your question, while there most certainly are contextual differences in the two examples posited, unfortunately for you, my newly acquainted newb, the differences are not relevant to the discussion at hand. 

So yea, try again. 

Except it IS. He literally released an album of pure garbage with the same title as Marshall Mathers LP but just slapped a “2” on it. That doesn’t relate to anything The Rolling Stones have done. Watching you try to be more intellectually advanced on this subject is admirable to me though. He tarnished his brand with his BS need to stay with the crowd. His double time flows and robotic rhythms mixed with his forced use of syllbles in each bar have ruined his sound.

[bla bla bla]

Just now, HessStation said:

Yeah that all makes sense. 

I'm just interested to try and figure why Redskins wouldn't offer him a long term contract. 

And if Smith is 4 for 94 what in that is guaranteed. 

They offered Kirk 5 years paying him the 2nd highest annual average. The deal the Redskins just signed Smith for is likely a 2 year deal with minimal cap hit year 3 if cut and no money guaranteed in year 4. Obviously we'll need to wait on the structure but assuming there is a signing bonus that seems like how the $70M will be spread out. I expect:

$70M in guarantees could be with say $20M signing bonus spread over the length of the contract. The deal could look like

Year 1 - $20M ($5 bonus guaranteed)

Year 2 - $20M ($5 bonus guaranteed)

Year 3 - $10M guaranteed + $5M not guaranteed ($5 bonus guaranteed)

Year 4 - $19M not guaranteed ($5 bonus guaranteed)

or something along those lines.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, detectivekimble said:

And they would have been A LOT worse without him.  They were 7-25 in the two years before he became the starter.

2009: 4-12

2010: 6-10

2011: 5-11

2012: 10-6

2013: 3-13

2014: 4-12

Really?  This is the Redskins we're talking about.  In 2015, the Skins averaged more points per game than the Packers.  You know, that team with a QB named Aaron Rodgers.

I agree completely, to be honest. 

And, I'm not even a big record guy when it comes to QBs. 

But, I'm just noting that, he's not a true game-changer. He's a nice player. I think it is plausible that we could build a really good, competitive team with him. He's just not a guy that I would be interested in breaking the bank for. 

[bla bla bla]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

How so?

In the history of NFL free agency, which franchise QBs, without either having serious injury concerns (Cousins is healthy) or being well past their primes (Cousins is 29), were ever allowed to hit free agency? Which ones didn't eventually resign with their own teams? Seriously, I want you to count. How many?

Which is exactly why this is rare, there has never been a situation like this in league history. Cousins bet against himself an now forced himself into Free Agency.

[detectivekimble]

Just now, slimjasi said:

I agree completely, to be honest. 

And, I'm not even a big record guy when it comes to QBs. 

But, I'm just noting that, he's not a true game-changer. He's a nice player. I think it is plausible that we could build a really good, competitive team with him. He's just not a guy that I would be interested in breaking the bank for. 

At the end of the day, the offense's job is to score points.  If your offense scores 30 points per game and your team has a losing record, it's not your QB that's the problem.  Roethlisberger said that every game, the Steelers offense goes out there and tries to score 30 points.  He says if they do that, they should win.  And he's right.  The defense has to do its job, too.  The Redskins did a pretty good job of scoring points with Cousins as the QB.  It's way too easy and simplistic to blame the QB for the mediocre record.  At the end of the day, they're a trash organization and they were total sh*t before Cousins took over.  

[JetFreak89]

How so?
In the history of NFL free agency, which franchise QBs, without either having serious injury concerns (Cousins is healthy) or being well past their primes (Cousins is 29), were ever allowed to hit free agency? Which ones didn't eventually resign with their own teams? Seriously, I want you to count. How many?

For someone who went on and on about other poster’s reading comprehension I find it hard to believe that you just completely ignored the sentence that came directly after what you just quoted.

Methinks a troll. Goodnight.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Which is exactly why this is rare, there has never been a situation like this in league history. Cousins bet against himself an now forced himself into Free Agency.

But still, to keep in mind bc Washington was unwilling to extend guaranteed money past two years....which to me, is odd considering age and health.. and odd Cousins is expecting more guaranteed years. How is that cross referenced w other qbs I don't know 

[BigO]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

That’s a huge plus for the Jets. Cousin or not at least we now know we aren’t getting Alex Smith. I honestly thinks Bowles and Macc weep at this trade .

Has no bearing on us. They have no intention of going after either Smith or Cousins. If anything this opens the door for Cousins to be targeted by a potential contender. Hopefully Broncos bite leaving another QB available in the draft. Elway had success with Manning and looks like he’s seen enough of Semian and Lynch. McClown will soon be resigned by Mac ending any further speculation of any other vet. It’s up to Mac to decide now if he trades up or sits at 6 and takes the 3rd QB in the draft. 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Except it IS. He literally released an album of pure garbage with the same title as Marshall Mathers LP but just slapped a “2” on it. 

So what? This doesn't diminish the legendary status of his first three studio albums. He could FedEx each and every single one of his fans a pink dildo with the words "Marshall Mathers LP" written on it and it wouldn't have the slightest impact on how patently revolutionary his early music was. 

I like that you are trying. 

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, HessStation said:

But still, to keep in mind bc Washington was unwilling to extend guaranteed money past two years....which to me, is odd considering age and health

In the world of NFL contracts that is not odd. It’s what McGM did with Revis and Wilkerson in their deals, what the Pats usually do when making a significant FA signing (if not one year), what the Giants did last offseason, etc. The new mentality among players is that everything is a one or two year deal and garaunteed money is what to chase. 

[bla bla bla]

Just now, HessStation said:

But still, to keep in mind bc Washington was unwilling to extend guaranteed money past two years....which to me, is odd considering age and health

I think that is where my original point of the order of events comes into play. The Redskins were embarrassed by the RG3 situation and signing Cousins would be a constant reminder of how they made one of the worst trades in NFL history. Cousins was the player Shanahan wanted and Allen looks like a fool for trading up for RG3. This is where we get into speculation but Redskins fans and DC media believe this to be true given how Cousins was handled.

[bla bla bla]

Just now, SenorGato said:

In the world of NFL contracts that is not odd. It’s what McGM did with Revis and Wilkerson in their deals, what the Pats usually do when making a significant FA signing (if not one year), what the Giants did last offseason, etc 

I will say QBs are usually different than other positions because of how long they can play. It was certainly bad move by the Redskins and one the Kirk was likely offended by.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

So what? This doesn't diminish the legendary status of his first three studio albums. He could FedEx each and every single one of his fans a pink dildo with the words "Marshall Mathers LP" written on it and it wouldn't have the slightest impact on how patently revolutionary his early music was. 

I like that you are trying. 

Lol we really are arguing about two different things tho and you made it this way because you couldn’t counter my first argument. His legacy as a whole is trashed. No one said anything about his first three albums because indeed they were great. Very great. He changed. His syllable count on his bars stretch past the proper amount of time and so it forces his flows out of place, naturally. That’s what happens when you over do a rhyme scheme. It then won’t properly fit between the BPM of the instrumental. He has corny outdated punchlines and he structures his set ups very poorly. I mean, I am an artist myself, I’m not just talking out of my ass. I don’t think you know half as much as you should to be having this debate with me. 

Do you even know what a double time flow is without googling it? Stop playing with me. You don’t know sh*t.

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

I will say QBs are usually different than other positions because of how long they can play. It was certainly bad move by the Redskins and one the Kirk was likely offended by.

Yeah, their goof. Someone’s going to get a QB’s that has produced like a 3-7 guy in the Brady/Rodgers NFL for less than Jameis Winston this time 2020.

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I will say QBs are usually different than other positions because of how long they can play. It was certainly bad move by the Redskins and one the Kirk was likely offended by.

Yeah, just for contract comparison Stafford got 92mm guaranteed but he is the highest paid as well

 

smith got 71mm guaranteed btw

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Yeah, just for contract comparison Stafford got 92mm guaranteed but he is the highest paid as well

smith got 71mm guaranteed btw

Ready for the explosion at 5/$95/$150? It’s going to be good times. 

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

For someone who went on and on about other poster’s reading comprehension I find it hard to believe that you just completely ignored the sentence that came directly after what you just quoted.

Methinks a troll. Goodnight.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I didn't "completely ignore anything." Your next sentence read: "The bad contract negotiations are mitigating circumstances which turn this into a Brees, Manning, ATL trading Brett Favre situation." But, none of these have any bearing on the questions I posed in my response. Brees and Manning were both coming off of major injuries and Favre was traded after only one season in ATL as a backup QB (who had thrown a total of 4 career passes at the time of the trade.)

So . . . yea . . . I'll ask my questions again:

Which franchise QBs, without either having serious injury concerns (Cousins is healthy) or being well past their primes (Cousins is 29), were ever allowed to hit free agency? Which ones didn't eventually resign with their own teams? Seriously, I want to know which ones and I want you to count. How many?

[HessStation]

9 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Ready for the explosion at 5/$95/$150? It’s going to be good times. 

Which is partially why I want to draft a QB and worry about it in 4-5 years if god forbid they actually land a real one. Aaron Rogers may be worth that, I don't think Cousins is. I can see him getting close to that though, i.e. Supply/demand 

[SenorGato]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Which is partially why I want to draft a QB and worry about it in 4-5 years. Aaron Rogers may be worth that, I don't think Cousins is. I can see him getting close to that though, i.e. Supply/demand 

When it’s 5/$150+/$200+? Pass. Give me Cousins today and Lauletta (of the 2020 draft if not this one) 202something.