How can we justify drafting a DT at #3?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, section314 said:

If Murray and Bosa go 1&2, Tampa may oblige this to come up to get Q.Williams. That would give us #5 and #39, I believe. Also, may open up chance to deal further with a team that might want to get ahead of Giants to grab a QB. I know this probably has about a 15% chance of happening, but who knows?

they don't have to trade back far and yes i think a team may want to come up and get Q.  if the jets wind up picking 5th or 6th they may still get allen.

[bitonti]

8 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Here's a good example.

2011 draft

2. Von Miller 3. Marcel dareus 11. JJ watt. 13. Nick fairly 14. Robert quinn

Do you want a chance to have von Miller or JJ watt. Or would you prefer Marcel dareus.  Would you rather have Nick fairly or Robert quinn. 

Im taking the DE over the DT every time

9

Yes that is a good example 

JJ Watt had the 2nd most sacks last year behind Aaron Donald

Williams went to the same program as Dareus and is considered better 

Von Miller ran a 4.4 

using your example the freakiest athlete, Ed Oliver could be the Von Miller of this group, he does have a 99 sparq 

every crop is different this year the DT are dank the edge are only good

 

[Philc1]

Easy

 

Quinnen Williams is the best player in the draft

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Here's a good example.

2011 draft

2. Von Miller 3. Marcel dareus 11. JJ watt. 13. Nick fairly 14. Robert quinn

Do you want a chance to have von Miller or JJ watt. Or would you prefer Marcel dareus.  Would you rather have Nick fairly or Robert quinn. 

Im taking the DE over the DT every time

Bosa and Allen are not as good as Von Miller.  I think both will be good players but neither is a Von Miller

 

Quinnen Williams can be as good as Watt

 

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the reality is that the jets have no 2nd rounder this year.  if they use the 3rd pick in the draft on defense, offense will not be addressed until maybe the 3rd round.  this is not how teams build around their young qbs when they're on rookie contracts.  

many of the same people here who are clamoring to take a DT at #3 will be leading the complaints when darnold is getting constantly harrassed and has no time to throw.  

mccagnan has a great opportunity to show that he's learned something about drafting and figure out how to trade back and get more picks.  if he gets at least a 2nd round pick in a trade back, then it's much easier to accept taking a defensive player in the first round.  they need a 2nd rounder, that's where they're probably going to get a real center.  

It will not show me he learned anything, other than to listen to message board babble. Taking a lesser prospect because "offense" is about as dumb as it gets.  Especially a mid-grade RT. They have money, this pick is not their only asset, the goal is to maximize the assets that you have. 

I get the idea that you want to swing for the fences, which is why I didn't crucify him for drafting an undraftable QB in the 2nd, or a  25 year old Canadian from the Rocky Mountain Conference in the 3rd.  Taking calculated risks is okay, but passing up a guy with the upside of Oliver because your highly regarded QB will wet himself if his Oline is rated 18th instead of 16th is clueless IMO

[MindOverMatter]

Quinnen Williams is a good prospect but all i keep reminding myself of was how clean and elite of a prospect Leo was coming out of USC. Scouts compared him to Richard Seymour. 

If we go DT i'd prefer Oliver, at least his workouts are in line with other great pass rushers.

[Philc1]

I love how people think QW didn’t also have one of the all time great combine workouts he almost had as good a 40 time as Bosa while being 50 lbs heavier

[Bruce Harper]

8 hours ago, choon328 said:

Didn't you know Quinnen Williams is a generational talent? Although Ed Oliver is better all of a sudden. So 2 generational talents. Wait, then there's Nick Bosa. So 3 generational talents in the same draft? (Sarcasm)

In all seriousness I believe most people want to choose a defensive guy bc they're nervous that Macc will get it wrong if they don't go with the so called "safe" pick. The problem is that if you want to be a good team in the NFL you have to have balls. Just like Macc showed by moving up last year so early in the off-season.

It will be a failure if Macc takes one of those guys and says, "We had a few offers to move out but we felt they didn't match the value of the player we could take at 3".

Everyone knows the Jets need to get back into the 2nd round this year to help this offensive line. Macc needs to be willing to take less than market value to get a couple of additional picks in this draft. In my opinion if he doesn't do that it's a failure no matter who they draft at #3.

Not if Allen gets 10-12 sacks a year for the next six years.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Not if Allen gets 10-12 sacks a year for the next six years.

I like Allen I have lobbied for him for months I do see a bust factor with him

 

there is 0.0 bust factor with QW who will win DROY

[KRL]

People need to stop the "pack think", they should want the best pass rusher not just an edge rusher.
If Quinnen Williams or Ed Oliver have the same traits as Aaron Donald who cares what position they
play?  Also the most damaging type of pressure to an offense/QB is the one that comes up the middle.
It destroys run & pass blocking schemes, prevents QB's from stepping into their throws and flushes
them out of the pocket  

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

8 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

DE Robert Quinn was suppose to be stud pass rusher coming out of North Carolina.  these examples aren’t cut and dry .. what if they took a DT and he turn out to be Geno Atkins or Donald or Warren sapp? 

Every player is different. one case doesn’t prove the other . I could easily use Leonard Floyd and Vic Beasley as examples not to draft Josh Allen.. but that wouldn’t be fair to Allen at all. 

I get your point. But Marcella dareus was drafted 3rd overall. He is a pro bowler and all pro player. But he has 37 career sacks at DT.. He only has 2 seasons where he amassed more than 5.5 sacks.  Robert Quinn taken 11 picks after him has 69.

And that's my point. A good DE will always be more valuable than a good DT.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

We need to finish the dline. 6 or 7 more drafts and it should be done.

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I love how people think QW didn’t also have one of the all time great combine workouts he almost had as good a 40 time as Bosa while being 50 lbs heavier

Quinnen Williams appears to be a great athlete, however, I do not know that indicates he will be generating pass rush in the NFL.  Yes, he was fast, but while his jumps were good, they were about a 1/2 foot shorter than Oliver.  That is pretty significant.  I don't think he even bothered with the agility drills, and his excuse was a broken pinky?  His jumps do not indicate a super explosive athlete, which kind of the complaint about Leonard.

[More Cowbell]

9 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I guess I'm not buying all the Quinnen Williams hype. I feel like it would be a stupid pick for us and I wouldn't be excited if we picked him. Convince me why it's a good pick. Do you think he's better than Allen or Bosa. Because I dont. williams won't be getting after the QB like Bosa or Allen 

I think you need to watch film of him. The guy is a beast who overpowers OT's at the point of attack and drives them 5 and 7 yards into the backfield. He actually grabbed one QB and threw him to the ground like a ragdoll with one hand on a play I saw. This guy has as much potential as any player in this draft. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

If we draft Williams, Bosa, or Allen at 3 and they turn out to be all-pro, hall of fame type players, it was the right pick. If they turn out to be Leonard Williams, it was the wrong pick. 

[WayneChrebet80]

I love how the media and twitter throw out Aaron Donald’s name so easily. There have probably been about ten players in the history of the league who have been at Donald’s level at DT. The chances are very minimal that either Williams or Oliver reaches his level let alone both. 

[bealeb319]

If we traded down and qw was still available for whatever reason the same people who don't want him would be praising Macc for getting a steal but then our first loss there will be 20 threads titled fire Macc or cut qw. Some of you guys are ridiculous

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[MindOverMatter]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Quinnen Williams appears to be a great athlete, however, I do not know that indicates he will be generating pass rush in the NFL.  Yes, he was fast, but while his jumps were good, they were about a 1/2 foot shorter than Oliver.  That is pretty significant.  I don't think he even bothered with the agility drills, and his excuse was a broken pinky?  His jumps do not indicate a super explosive athlete, which kind of the complaint about Leonard.

The 40 Q ran was impressive but not really relevant. How often is he going to utilize that fast 40 yard dash on the field? Williams didn't run the agility drills because his agent is smart and knew he wouldn't blow anyone away with the workouts. On the flip side, Oliver has been a beast for 3 years and destroyed all his workouts. 

[choon328]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

This didn't require a long explanation.  I gave a simple hypothetical situation to counter yours as a way of highlighting that the response would be the same only on the other side of the ball.  Neither one is a given.

We weren't discussing QB development and Darnold's development quite frankly has nothing to do with whether we go offense or defense with the 3rd pick.  Will have nothing to do with Darnold's development.  The OL wasn't bad enough to hinder him a year ago, isn't going to hinder him this year.  I'm sick of all the doom and gloom nonsense based on cliches, not fact.  Lets scare people over the imagined beating he'll have and claiming a mid first pick would have cured all.   You can have the leagues best OL and one hit can cause a season ending injury. 

If he can find a trading partner that makes sense, I agree, trade down and then go for line help.  If not, draft the best player at 3.  On no ones list is that a OL.

I stopped reading after this bc you couldn't be more wrong.

[ryu79]

25 minutes ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

I love how the media and twitter throw out Aaron Donald’s name so easily. There have probably been about ten players in the history of the league who have been at Donald’s level at DT. The chances are very minimal that either Williams or Oliver reaches his level let alone both. 

The Aaron Donald that half the league slept on and let slip to the teens when he should have been a top five pick?

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Bosa and Allen are not as good as Von Miller.  I think both will be good players but neither is a Von Miller

 

Quinnen Williams can be as good as Watt

 

 

 

Quinnen cannot be as good as Watt. He’s not nearly explosive enough. His workouts were nice but that next level explosion that Watt possesses is absent from Quinnen’s body.

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Quinnen cannot be a good as Watt. He’s not nearly explosive enough. His workouts were nice but that next level explosion that Watt possess is absent from Quinnen’s body.

Watt's numbers were much more in line with Oliver than Williams.  Short shuttle, jumps and bench are almost identical.  Oliver is smaller and faster, but Watt killed him in the 3 cone.   Oliver is basically a stumpy Watt by the numbers.  Williams is heavier and basically ran the same 40 as Watt, but he also isn't as lengthy and you can be sure that his agility times wouldn't sniff Watt, or we would have them. 

[Jet Nut]

33 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I stopped reading after this bc you couldn't be more wrong.

Sure I am.  Darnold won't develop without a OL drafted this year in the first.  Strong argument

[paulyjet]

You can't. Take a DE

[choon328]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Sure I am.  Darnold won't develop without a OL drafted this year in the first.  Strong argument

There are many many examples of QB's whose growth was stunted bc of offensive line problems. But you know that already.

I know people have talked themselves into the theory that Harrison is good enough at Center but he's not. So there is a huge hole at Center still. Add in that both tackles are free agents after next season as well. If those 2 things don't concern you then I don't know what to tell you.

Having a poor offensive line for your 22 year old Franchise QB is like buying a Maybach and parking it in your driveway bc you don't have a garage. 

Drafting a defensive player at #3 while you have a hole at Center and will have a hole at LT and RT in 2020 is like putting an extension on your mansion while your Maybach sits out in the rain and snow bc you chose to not build the garage. You're sh*tting on your investment.

[kelly]

" How can we justify drafting a DT at #3 ? "...

 

BPA  

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

There are many many examples of QB's whose growth was stunted bc of offensive line problems. But you know that already.

I know people have talked themselves into the theory that Harrison is good enough at Center but he's not. So there is a huge hole at Center still. Add in that both tackles are free agents after next season as well. If those 2 things don't concern you then I don't know what to tell you.

Having a poor offensive line for your 22 year old Franchise QB is like buying a Maybach and parking it in your driveway bc you don't have a garage. 

Drafting a defensive player at #3 while you have a hole at Center and will have a hole at LT and RT in 2020 is like putting an extension on your mansion while your Maybach sits out in the rain and snow bc you chose to not build the garage. You're sh*tting on your investment.

LET'S DRAFT A CENTER AT #3 OVERALL!

That is like going to the car dealer and buying a Maxima and paying the same price you would for the Maybach.  Then you can park it in your ******* garage.  This analogy is fun.

 

 

[Greenbloodblitz]

We can't take a DT at 3. If we even wind up staying at 3 we have to take an edge rusher. That being said, in that scenario Mac would have to trade players and or next year's pics because we absolutely have to draft Oline! I think the quarterback thing is going to heat up and we're going to trade down. I like the scenario better are we have a lower pick in the first round and add more pics. I would much rather have Burns or Montez sweat and Bradbury and a wide receiver than just taking Nick Bosa at number three and then waiting till the 3rd round. I just don't see that happening

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

There are many many examples of QB's whose growth was stunted bc of offensive line problems. But you know that already.

I know people have talked themselves into the theory that Harrison is good enough at Center but he's not. So there is a huge hole at Center still. Add in that both tackles are free agents after next season as well. If those 2 things don't concern you then I don't know what to tell you.

Having a poor offensive line for your 22 year old Franchise QB is like buying a Maybach and parking it in your driveway bc you don't have a garage. 

Drafting a defensive player at #3 while you have a hole at Center and will have a hole at LT and RT in 2020 is like putting an extension on your mansion while your Maybach sits out in the rain and snow bc you chose to not build the garage. You're sh*tting on your investment.

Are you just going to go on and on about something we all know.  No shlt, you can hurt a QBs development.  You're a genius.  That's not the point.  Point is a mediocre OL, who doesn't deserve to be the 3rd pick isn't going to help given the OL want nearly as bad as you're selling and has been improved a bit already.  Cliche riddled comments don't changed the Jets situation and OL.

You want an offensive player regardless, I don't.  But you'll spend away until we want to slit our wrists. Give it up, I'm not changing my mind, best player at 3.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Top 5 DTs and there production

Aaron Donald: 5 seasons 59.5 sacks. 3 season with 10+ sacks.  The only DT in the league who has had more than 15 sacks in a season. 

Geno Atkins: 9 seasons. 71 sacks 3 seasons with 10+ sacks

Fletcher Cox: 7 seasons 44.5 sacks. Only 1 season of 10 + sacks

Ndamukong Suh: 9 seasons 56 sacks only 1 season of 10+ sacks

Gerald McCoy: 9 seasons 54 sacks. Never had 10+ sack season

 

Aaron Donald is a freak and there is nobody like him. Let's say Quinnen Williams is as good as Atkins/ Cox/ Suh/ or McCoy. (and I think that's being generous) I feel like The production you receive from a DT is not worth using the number 3 overall pick on. Realistically If we pick Quinnen Williams he might have 1 10 sack season. And at #3 overall that's such a waste of a pick.

 

Top 5 DE and there production

JJ Watt: 8 seasons 92 sacks 5 seasons with 10+ sacks 2 with 20+/ sacks

Khalil Mack: 5 seasons 53 sacks 4 seasons 10+ sacks

Von miller: 8 season 98 sacks 7 seasons 10+ sacks

Chandler Jones: 7 seasons 77 sacks 5 seasons 10+ sacks

Joey Bosa: 3 seasons 28.5 sacks 2 seasons 10+ sacks

 

Now this is what you want out of your number 3 overall pick. Someone who has the potential to get 10+ sack seasons year in and year out. I just don't understand the love for a DT at # 3. Allen or Bosa has to be the pick.

[choon328]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

LET'S DRAFT A CENTER AT #3 OVERALL!

That is like going to the car dealer and buying a Maxima and paying the same price you would for the Maybach.  Then you can park it in your ******* garage.  This analogy is fun.

 

 

Except I never said to draft a Center at #3. I said an offensive lineman. Try reading.

And my first choice would be to trade back to get picks and then take offensive lineman with the 1st and hopefully 2nd round picks.

[choon328]

33 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Are you just going to go on and on about something we all know.  No shlt, you can hurt a QBs development.  You're a genius.  That's not the point.  Point is a mediocre OL, who doesn't deserve to be the 3rd pick isn't going to help given the OL want nearly as bad as you're selling and has been improved a bit already.  Cliche riddled comments don't changed the Jets situation and OL.

You want an offensive player regardless, I don't.  But you'll spend away until we want to slit our wrists. Give it up, I'm not changing my mind, best player at 3.

 

And I'm not trying to change your mind. I could care less if you read my posts let alone responded. 

 

*I edited this bc I was being an a$$hole*

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Except I never said to draft a Center at #3. I said an offensive lineman. Try reading.

And my first choice would be to trade back to get picks and then take offensive lineman with the 1st and hopefully 2nd round picks.

Ooooh!  So you are going to go for the 3 series BMW for $476,000?  Smart

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

There's no reason to get personal. I know your tiny phallus has made you an angry little man but there is no reason to take it out on me.

And I'm not trying to change your mind. I could care less if you read my posts let alone responded. Put me on ignore and go away. Thanks, bye

You're a total lame ass with this post. No one got personal Nancy.  I said we don't agree and won't. 

Still trying to contact convince people that you know more than them so is we draft one of the players from the DL Darnold won't develop. 

Tiny phallus?  Lol, I get that you are so concerned about my phallus.

 

[choon328]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

You're a total lame ass with this post. No one got personal Nancy.  I said we don't agree and won't. 

Still trying to contact convince people that you know more than them so is we draft one of the players from the DL Darnold won't develop. 

Tiny phallus?  Lol, I get that you be concerned about my phallus.

 

Lol. You know what I edited my post just before you responded. I shouldn't have said that, I'm just being a dick and i apologize. This sh*t isn't that serious. My bad dude.