Warfish Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Savage69 said: Fish doesn't believe in what he considers false hope until the player proves it on the field.. Nothing wrong with that except I think if Fish won a 500 million lottery he would complain about the taxes.. Lol, no. And if Darnold is at 68% completion % next year, I won't complain about that either. 68%+ is extremely accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genot Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 53 minutes ago, SAR I said: If you can't feel good about these 8 Jets then you are rooting for the wrong team. SAR I Gase has a lot to prove. Nothing wrong having reservations about a newly hired HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 44 minutes ago, David Harris said: Don't you find so much of Allen's success last year was due to his running - he was a bigger stronger Steve Young running QB last year. He seemed to take off early and often last year and broke off a lot of long runs and was way faster and stronger than expected. Allen didn't have any of the kinds of nuanced and tough throws that Darnold showed in that article. Darnold's a QB with great instincts, Allen is a Cam Newton clone without the touch or feel, JMO. Agree with you about Allen and the running last year, but he also has the strongest arm of the QBs taken last year in my opinion. He’s very wild with it though. When you look at their seasons though, there wasn’t much to separate him and Darnold. i really don’t buy into this thing about Darnold being so accurate though either. At least not consistently. Sure he made some great throws, but he made some really bad ones also. So many here want to blame everything he did wrong on his receivers and or coaches, that’s not being fair in my opinion. I think both he and Allen will become very good QBs, Rosen too for that matter. I just think the 3 of them have a lot to improve on. I realize it isn’t a popular opinion here, but I honestly feel Mayfield is way ahead of them all at this point, and I thought it was pretty evident last year. Of course that doesn’t mean Sam or the others won’t become the same or better, I just don’t think they are right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Warfish said: Accuracy is about consistency. Single great throws do not make you accurate. Being consistently accurate makes you accurate. Darnold is not an accurate QB yet. He certainly can work hard and grow into one. But trying to paint the least accurate QB in the NFL last year as somehow being elite in accuracy because he made a few great throws is a bit of a stretch. There is no reason to fluff the kid. He has a ton of work and development still to come to be what we want, an elite QB. He is not that yet, he's still just a high quality prospect. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. I don't think it's about accuracy, or completions. I think for a QB it's about ball placement and that changes with every throw with proper ball placement the numbers should go up although the receiver has to do their part too. I believe Darnold has good ball placement and will only get better with more reps and hopefully better receivers and understanding each other over time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, genot said: Gase has a lot to prove. Nothing wrong having reservations about a newly hired HC. As an experienced NFL head coach, would you not agree that he is superior to: Todd Bowles Rex Ryan Eric Mangini Herman Edwards Al Groh SAR I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, Warfish said: Yes, how dare we be literal when discussing literal things like literal metrics to measure literal accuracy..... Go right ahead. I'm getting tired of JN Posters who think they get to decide who is or isn't a fan of this team and it's players.... He was 31st in the NFL in Completion % in 2018 at 57.7%, below the NFL's "Mendoza Line" of 60%. Only Josh Allen and Josh Rosen were worse. That is simply not "extremely accurate". Again, that isn't to say he cannot work hard and improve his accuracy to be materially more consistent, which will be required if he is to be an elite NFL QB, but he was not "extremely accurate" in 2018. I just don;t get the homer desire for 1984-esque Newspeak when it comes to guys they like. He's a young QB who needs to develop, there is NOTHING WRONG with him not being "extremely accurate" yet. We don't need to redefine what words and metrics mean or engage in extreme hyperbole to be in lockstep with some Party LIne on Darnold. Yes, he occasionally makes very accurate throws. Elite throws even. No, he is not overall extremely accurate...yet. We'll see this year, with Anderson, Crowder, Enunwa, Herndon and especially Bell, there should be no "blame the other guys" excuse to be made. There you go with your penchant for immediately shifting into negative hyperbole. I didn’t say you weren’t a Jet fan but given your dour miserable schtick it’s not surprising. But again continuing to equate comp rate and accuracy shows a basic lack of understanding that a metric and a concept are not the same. But you keep trotting out 31st as “inaccurate” so you keep going with it. I’m fortunate in life that I no longer need to deal with miserable folks at work or leisure and I’m not sure why I’m engaging now. Insufferable miserable folks, I really hope it’s just your schtick and reading your work since I’ve been here, I’m guessing that’s all it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, SAR I said: As an experienced NFL head coach, would you not agree that he is superior to: Todd Bowles Rex Ryan Eric Mangini Herman Edwards Al Groh SAR I I would rank them by their total records, and accomplishments...ie divisions won etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, Apache 51 said: I don't think it's about accuracy, or completions. I think for a QB it's about ball placement and that changes with every throw with proper ball placement the numbers should go up although the receiver has to do their part too. I believe Darnold has good ball placement and will only get better with more reps and hopefully better receivers and understanding each other over time. Exactly. Accuracy is an innate ability to make certain throws. Inaccurate guys can only get so far. Accurate guys will rise to the top. That Sam was under 58% last year as a 21 year old with an awful OC, an awful line, bottom of the barrel talent at WR and RB does not mean he is inaccurate. Yet someone with a fundamental misunderstanding of stats v concepts will keep whining THIRTY FIRST! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genot Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, SAR I said: As an experienced NFL head coach, would you not agree that he is superior to: Todd Bowles Rex Ryan Eric Mangini Herman Edwards Al Groh SAR I Rex Ryan, no. The others, as a coach. Probably. My reservations about him go beyond the x's and o's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 This is how moronic comp rate equals accuracy is. So apparently, according to some, 60% is the line that denotes accurate v inaccurate. Sam was 239 of 414 for 57.7% completion rate. 13 games. If you add 1 completion per game, maybe a dropped pass or a throw away or a bad route or any number of issues unrelated to accuracy, 13 receptions and Sam is 252 for 414 for a nearly 61% comp rate. Is he now accurate? Now think about how bad the OC was, how bad his offensive “talent” was, how pourous his line was, all the injuries. Not making excuses but one completion a game and all of a sudden he’s accurate? Lol. No one is claiming he doesn’t have work to do or that he’s a finished product. For crissakes he’s 22. But THIRTY FIRST....INACCURATE!!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 52 minutes ago, Warfish said: Yes, how dare we be literal when discussing literal things like literal metrics to measure literal accuracy..... Go right ahead. I'm getting tired of JN Posters who think they get to decide who is or isn't a fan of this team and it's players.... He was 31st in the NFL in Completion % in 2018 at 57.7%, below the NFL's "Mendoza Line" of 60%. Only Josh Allen and Josh Rosen were worse. That is simply not "extremely accurate". Again, that isn't to say he cannot work hard and improve his accuracy to be materially more consistent, which will be required if he is to be an elite NFL QB, but he was not "extremely accurate" in 2018. I just don;t get the homer desire for 1984-esque Newspeak when it comes to guys they like. He's a young QB who needs to develop, there is NOTHING WRONG with him not being "extremely accurate" yet. We don't need to redefine what words and metrics mean or engage in extreme hyperbole to be in lockstep with some Party LIne on Darnold. Yes, he occasionally makes very accurate throws. Elite throws even. No, he is not overall extremely accurate...yet. We'll see this year, with Anderson, Crowder, Enunwa, Herndon and especially Bell, there should be no "blame the other guys" excuse to be made. ...and yet you’re getting drawn into a “discussion” with the self appointed judge of who is or isn’t a Jets fan. Don’t waste your time. Simply not agreeing with his point of view leads to his “accusations” about your level of fandom (lol) and comments about what a miserable person you are. ? He seems unable to discuss anything in a civil tone. Always stoops to nasty snark. By my count, you’re the 3rd person to call him out on it this week, including the owner of the site. But yet he keeps on keeping on. Oblivious to how he comes off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: ...and yet you’re getting drawn into a “discussion” with the self appointed judge of who is or isn’t a Jets fan. Don’t waste your time. Simply not agreeing with his point of view leads to his “accusations” about your level of fandom (lol) and comments about what a miserable person you are. ? He seems unable to discuss anything in a civil tone. Always stoops to nasty snark. By my count, you’re the 3rd person to call him out on it this week, including the owner of the site. But yet he keeps on keeping on. Oblivious to how he comes off. I never said he wasn’t a Jet fan- I know he is but that was his spin on what I said. I was discussing accuracy v completion percentage and his penchant for what I believe is and has been an unfair critique of Sam. And he’s shown he’s man enough to defend himself and doesn’t need your help. And if you’re going to report me to the mods have the guts to do it in public. Hey @Maxman this guy that you asked me to “knock it off” is now suggesting I’M not a Jet fan. Been a Jet fan since 1969. Does this guy get a warning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Peace Frog said: I never said he wasn’t a Jet fan- I know he is but that was his spin on what I said. I was discussing accuracy v completion percentage and his penchant for what I believe is and has been an unfair critique of Sam. And he’s shown he’s man enough to defend himself and doesn’t need your help. And if you’re going to report me to the mods have the guts to do it in public. Hey @Maxman this guy that you asked me to “knock it off” is now suggesting I’M not a Jet fan. Been a Jet fan since 1969. Does this guy get a warning? Parroting again, huh? I never reported you sweetie, that pushback you got was all because of your own actions. So now when the mods read here you claiming I reported you, you’re going to look even more childish then you usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: Parroting again, huh? I never reported you sweetie, that pushback you got was all because of your own actions. So now when the mods read here you claiming I reported you, you’re going to look even more childish then you usually do. Sweetie? Again? Wow how cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 53 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: ...and yet you’re getting drawn into a “discussion” with the self appointed judge of who is or isn’t a Jets fan. Don’t waste your time. Simply not agreeing with his point of view leads to his “accusations” about your level of fandom (lol) and comments about what a miserable person you are. ? He seems unable to discuss anything in a civil tone. Always stoops to nasty snark. By my count, you’re the 3rd person to call him out on it this week, including the owner of the site. But yet he keeps on keeping on. Oblivious to how he comes off. Quote You've chosen to ignore content by Peace Frog. Options Long overdue tbh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Apache 51 said: I would rank them by their total records, and accomplishments...ie divisions won etc. In terms of pedigree and experience level, Adam Gase trumps them all. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 hour ago, genot said: Rex Ryan, no. The others, as a coach. Probably. My reservations about him go beyond the x's and o's Tell me in detail about your reservations. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, Warfish said: Long overdue tbh. Lol. I’m crushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, SAR I said: In terms of pedigree and experience level, Adam Gase trumps them all. SAR I It's about results. You don't play to win the game, and the biggest of all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, SAR I said: In terms of pedigree and experience level, Adam Gase trumps them all. SAR I No politics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Apache 51 said: No politics. This thread is just biden time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genot Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 44 minutes ago, SAR I said: Tell me in detail about your reservations. SAR I I think he's a little arrogant. He's a control freak, who doesn't like dissent. when your winning,all's good. When you lose, things can start to unravel quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 7/13/2019 at 7:35 PM, 14 in Green said: I have no problem with thinking Darnold will have a wonderful career. I think he will also. What I do take issue with is when people here say how obvious it is that Sam will be better then Mayfield. Based on what exactly? And why the constant need to try and convince each other that Sam should’ve been taken first, and he is the better of the two? All we have to go by so far IS their rookie year, and Baker was clearly better, and look at their numbers... Yes, Mayfield was decisively better. Anything else is opinion or as I said, Jets fans projecting. Why not let Darnold actually prove ON THE FIELD that he is better? He hasn’t yet, but if and when he does there’ll be plenty of opportunities to talk about it. Darnold not only had much less talent than Mayfield, but also had one of the worst coaching staffs of all time in his corner as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said: Darnold not only had much less talent than Mayfield, but also had one of the worst coaching staffs of all time in his corner as well. Just think one more NFL level talent around him and a competent OC and he’s easily at 61% comp and all of a sudden he’s “accurate”. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 Drew Brees 67.3% 2001-2018 2TM 2 Kirk Cousins 66.5% 2012-2018 2TM 3 Chad Pennington 66.0% 2000-2010 2TM 4 Kurt Warner+ 65.5% 1998-2009 3TM 5 Matt Ryan 65.3% 2008-2018 atl Peyton Manning 65.3% 1998-2015 2TM Tony Romo 65.3% 2004-2016 dal 8 Aaron Rodgers 64.8% 2005-2018 gnb 9 Philip Rivers 64.5% 2004-2018 sdg 10 Ben Roethlisberger 64.4% 2004-2018 pit Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 11 Steve Young+ 64.3% 1985-1999 2TM 12 Russell Wilson 64.2% 2012-2018 sea 13 Tom Brady 64.0% 2000-2018 nwe 14 Matt Schaub 63.9% 2004-2018 4TM 15 Marcus Mariota 63.2% 2015-2018 oti Joe Montana+ 63.2% 1979-1994 2TM 17 Daunte Culpepper 63.0% 1999-2009 4TM 18 Ryan Tannehill 62.8% 2012-2018 mia Derek Carr 62.8% 2014-2018 rai 20 Brian Griese 62.7% 1998-2008 4TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 21 Sam Bradford 62.5% 2010-2018 4TM Carson Palmer 62.5% 2004-2017 3TM 23 Matthew Stafford 62.4% 2009-2018 det Alex Smith 62.4% 2005-2018 3TM 25 Andy Dalton 62.3% 2011-2018 cin 26 Marc Bulger 62.1% 2002-2009 ram 27 Case Keenum 62.0% 2012-2018 4TM Brett Favre+ 62.0% 1991-2010 4TM Jay Cutler 62.0% 2006-2017 3TM 30 Joe Flacco 61.7% 2008-2018 rav Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Brad Johnson 61.7% 1994-2008 4TM 32 David Garrard 61.6% 2002-2010 jax Nick Foles 61.6% 2012-2018 3TM Jeff Garcia 61.6% 1999-2009 5TM Jameis Winston 61.6% 2015-2018 tam 36 Troy Aikman+ 61.5% 1989-2000 dal 37 Andrew Luck 60.8% 2012-2018 clt 38 Trent Green 60.6% 1997-2008 4TM 39 Matt Hasselbeck 60.5% 1999-2015 4TM 40 Jason Campbell 60.3% 2006-2014 5TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Jon Kitna 60.3% 1997-2011 4TM Eli Manning 60.3% 2004-2018 nyg 43 Rich Gannon 60.2% 1987-2004 4TM Josh McCown 60.2% 2002-2018 8TM 45 Steve McNair 60.1% 1995-2007 2TM Jim Kelly+ 60.1% 1986-1996 buf Ryan Fitzpatrick 60.1% 2005-2018 7TM 48 Ken Stabler+ 59.8% 1970-1984 3TM Tim Couch 59.8% 1999-2003 cle Colin Kaepernick 59.8% 2011-2016 sfo Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 51 Danny White 59.7% 1976-1988 dal David Carr 59.7% 2002-2012 4TM Cam Newton 59.7% 2011-2018 car 54 Mark Brunell 59.5% 1994-2011 5TM Kyle Orton 59.5% 2005-2014 5TM 56 Dan Marino+ 59.4% 1983-1999 mia Jake Delhomme 59.4% 1999-2011 4TM 58 Blake Bortles 59.3% 2014-2018 jax Ken Anderson 59.3% 1971-1986 cin Chad Henne 59.3% 2008-2018 3TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Bernie Kosar 59.3% 1985-1996 3TM 62 Elvis Grbac 59.1% 1994-2001 3TM 63 Donovan McNabb 59.0% 1999-2011 3TM 64 Bobby Hebert 58.9% 1985-1996 2TM 65 Dan Fouts+ 58.8% 1973-1987 sdg Jim Harbaugh 58.8% 1987-2000 4TM Matt Cassel 58.8% 2005-2018 7TM 68 Jay Fiedler 58.7% 1995-2005 5TM 69 Ken O'Brien 58.6% 1984-1993 2TM 70 Dave Krieg 58.5% 1980-1998 6TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 71 Warren Moon+ 58.4% 1984-2000 4TM 72 Tony Eason 58.2% 1983-1990 2TM 73 Chris Chandler 58.1% 1988-2004 7TM 74 Jeff Hostetler 58.0% 1985-1997 3TM Jim McMahon 58.0% 1982-1996 6TM 76 Byron Leftwich 57.9% 2003-2012 4TM Jeff George 57.9% 1990-2001 5TM 78 Neil O'Donnell 57.8% 1991-2003 4TM 79 Jim Everett 57.7% 1986-1997 3TM 80 Neil Lomax 57.6% 1981-1988 crd Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Josh Freeman 57.6% 2009-2015 3TM 82 Bart Starr+ 57.4% 1956-1971 gnb 83 Wade Wilson 57.3% 1981-1998 5TM Rodney Peete 57.3% 1989-2004 6TM Erik Kramer 57.3% 1987-1999 4TM 86 Steve DeBerg 57.2% 1978-1998 6TM Gary Danielson 57.2% 1976-1988 2TM Drew Bledsoe 57.2% 1993-2006 3TM 89 Jake Plummer 57.1% 1997-2006 2TM Len Dawson+ 57.1% 1957-1975 3TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Sonny Jurgensen+ 57.1% 1957-1974 2TM 92 Boomer Esiason 57.0% 1984-1997 3TM Fran Tarkenton+ 57.0% 1961-1978 2TM Roger Staubach+ 57.0% 1969-1979 dal 95 Steve Beuerlein 56.9% 1988-2003 6TM Stan Humphries 56.9% 1989-1997 2TM John Elway+ 56.9% 1983-1998 den 98 Joe Theismann 56.7% 1974-1985 was Kyle Boller 56.7% 2003-2011 3TM 100 Mark Sanchez 56.6% 2009-2018 4TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Randall Cunningham 56.6% 1985-2001 4TM Charlie Batch 56.6% 1998-2012 2TM 103 Brian Sipe 56.5% 1974-1983 cle Sammy Baugh+ 56.5% 1937-1952 was Vinny Testaverde 56.5% 1987-2007 7TM Aaron Brooks 56.5% 2000-2006 2TM 107 Jeff Blake 56.4% 1992-2005 7TM 108 Michael Vick 56.2% 2001-2015 4TM Bob Griese+ 56.2% 1967-1980 mia 110 Joey Harrington 56.1% 2002-2007 3TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Mark Rypien 56.1% 1988-2001 5TM Bert Jones 56.1% 1973-1982 2TM 113 Lynn Dickey 55.9% 1971-1985 2TM Steve Bartkowski 55.9% 1975-1986 2TM Vince Ferragamo 55.9% 1977-1986 3TM 116 Kordell Stewart 55.8% 1995-2005 3TM Otto Graham+ 55.8% 1946-1955 cle 118 Kerry Collins 55.7% 1995-2011 6TM 119 Greg Landry 55.5% 1968-1984 3TM Scott Mitchell 55.5% 1991-2001 4TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Trent Dilfer 55.5% 1994-2007 5TM 122 Phil Simms 55.4% 1979-1993 nyg Don Majkowski 55.4% 1987-1996 3TM 124 Rex Grossman 55.2% 2003-2012 3TM Y.A. Tittle+ 55.2% 1948-1964 3TM Archie Manning 55.2% 1971-1984 3TM 127 Tommy Kramer 55.1% 1977-1990 2TM 128 John Brodie 55.0% 1957-1973 sfo 129 Steve Bono 54.9% 1985-1999 7TM 130 Bill Kenney 54.7% 1980-1988 kan Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Doug Flutie 54.7% 1986-2005 4TM Gus Frerotte 54.7% 1994-2008 7TM 133 Chris Miller 54.6% 1987-1999 3TM Dave Brown 54.6% 1992-2001 2TM Johnny Unitas+ 54.6% 1956-1973 2TM Bubby Brister 54.6% 1986-2000 5TM 137 Derek Anderson 54.3% 2006-2018 4TM Billy Wade 54.3% 1954-1966 2TM Richard Todd 54.3% 1976-1985 2TM 140 Tony Banks 54.2% 1996-2005 4TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Craig Morton 54.2% 1965-1982 3TM 142 Milt Plum 54.0% 1957-1969 4TM Bill Munson 54.0% 1964-1979 5TM 144 Eric Hipple 53.7% 1980-1989 det 145 Norm Van Brocklin+ 53.6% 1949-1960 2TM 146 Mike Tomczak 53.4% 1985-1999 4TM 147 Rick Mirer 53.3% 1993-2003 5TM 148 Frankie Albert 53.1% 1946-1952 sfo Ron Jaworski 53.1% 1974-1989 4TM Billy Kilmer 53.1% 1961-1978 3TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm Jack Trudeau 53.1% 1986-1995 3TM 152 Jim Zorn 53.0% 1976-1987 3TM 153 Roman Gabriel 52.6% 1962-1977 2TM 154 Jim Plunkett 52.5% 1971-1986 3TM 155 Joe Ferguson 52.4% 1973-1990 4TM 156 Steve Grogan 52.3% 1975-1990 nwe Norm Snead 52.3% 1961-1976 5TM 158 Billy Joe Tolliver 52.2% 1989-1999 5TM 159 Marc Wilson 52.1% 1980-1990 2TM Mike Livingston 52.1% 1968-1979 kan Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 161 Terry Bradshaw+ 51.9% 1970-1983 pit 162 Sid Luckman+ 51.8% 1939-1950 chi 163 Earl Morrall 51.3% 1956-1976 6TM 164 Charley Johnson 51.2% 1961-1975 3TM 165 Frank Ryan 51.1% 1958-1970 3TM Jim Hart 51.1% 1966-1984 2TM 167 Dan Pastorini 50.9% 1971-1983 4TM Mark Malone 50.9% 1980-1989 3TM 169 Jay Schroeder 50.8% 1985-1994 4TM 170 Don Meredith 50.7% 1960-1968 dal Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 171 Bill Nelsen 50.6% 1963-1972 2TM 172 John Hadl 50.4% 1962-1977 4TM Frank Tripucka 50.4% 1949-1963 4TM 174 Bob Waterfield+ 50.3% 1945-1952 ram 175 Joe Namath+ 50.1% 1965-1977 2TM Mike Pagel 50.1% 1982-1993 3TM Charlie Conerly 50.1% 1948-1961 nyg 178 Eddie LeBaron 50.0% 1952-1963 2TM 179 Daryle Lamonica 49.5% 1963-1974 2TM Doug Williams 49.5% 1978-1989 2TM Rank Player Cmp% Years Tm 181 Mike Phipps 49.2% 1970-1981 2TM 182 Bobby Layne+ 49.0% 1948-1962 4TM 183 Tom Flores 48.9% 1960-1969 3TM 184 Ed Brown 47.8% 1954-1965 3TM 185 George Blanda+ 47.7% 1949-1975 4TM 186 Jack Kemp 46.7% 1957-1969 3TM 187 Babe Parilli 46.6% 1952-1969 5TM 188 Tobin Rote 45.7% 1950-1966 4TM 189 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 7 hours ago, 14 in Green said: All good points by both of you. Sometimes I rush thru a quote and don’t explain myself properly. Im all for Being optimistic about Sam. Let’s face it, without him we are screwed. My objection is the need to put down a Mayfield, Allen or Barkley when talking about Sam. i think those teams are happy with who they took. I couldn’t understand at first why the Giants kept saying they were taking the RB, but then I thought about it, and if they took a QB last year, rightly or wrongly he would’ve sat two years behind Eli anyway. As for the Browns, I always say I’m no draft guru, but if I were them I’d have taken Barkley first, and one of the QBs, either Darnold or Mayfield 4th. The way it played out though their GM knew better then me (shocker) as it appears he got a really good QB and CB. In no way am I discounting Mayfield. Hes tough in the pocket, accurate, can go through his progressions, has enough arm and is a legit leader. I just personally feel that Sam has an innate ability to see things a split second before they happen and that is while being so young. Guys like peyton and luck had 6 or 7 full years of starting at a high level of HS and college. Sam is so far behind them when it comes to coaching, and yet is on par with production and then also comes with elite size and speed. You make a solid point about the browns trading down, but the bigger missed trade is the Giants not trading Odell a year ago for 4 and a second rounder. They could have taken Sam at 2, the Jets would have been forced into Rosen or Allen, and then Barkely at 4 and been set on offense for a long time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said: Darnold not only had much less talent than Mayfield, but also had one of the worst coaching staffs of all time in his corner as well. I know this is a popular theme here when defending Sam. You’re right, not a lot of talent on O or the CS for Sam. But that argument is useless when comparing him to Mayfield. Baker went from a horrible coach in Hue Jackson, to a in season replacement (Freddie Kitchens) whose inexperience is being touted here by almost everyone as a reason why the Browns will be bad this year. You can’t have it both ways, sorry. Bakers coaches sucked also. So stop with the “well Sam had bad coaches stuff.” As far as talent, please. The Browns won what? One game in two years before Baker? They were 0-2 again last year and down 14-0 when Baker came off the bench week 3 and led them to a win against the Jets. Again, you can’t have it both ways.The only change in the team that won once in 34 games, then suddenly went 7-6-1 was Baker Mayfield. So stop with the “he had better talent stuff.” Baker had a record breaking year. He was better then Sam. It wasn’t even close. Sorry. There is no way for anyone to logically argue this fact. You might LIKE Sam more, or FEEL he may become the better player, but he wasn’t better last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, 14 in Green said: As far as talent, please. The Browns won what? One game in two years before Baker? They were 0-2 again last year and down 14-0 when Baker came off the bench week 3 and led them to a win against the Jets. Are we really going to ignore Jarvis Landry, Antonio Calloway, David Njoku, Nick Chubb and a significantly better OL? look I’m not saying you aren’t right but the browns record and their offensive talent doesn’t really have the connection you are trying to make them have. They had been steadily stocking up on offensive talent for quite some time. They lost games because they didn’t have the QB. This all came together for them just this past year. This would be my only gripe with your post, otherwise, it’s a fair post. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/13/2019 at 3:39 PM, FidelioJet said: Be careful, the Gase police will be coming after you. Didn't you know he was an offensive genius? He should not be judged on his actual performance - his failures were everyone else fault. Really. Not what ex players say. Not why Manning says. Cutler. just throw it out there that he should have let the injured Tannehill throw it all over the place. And listen to the same old whining by Fidelio. Every thread, every day, all day. Don't have anything to say, call those who don't agree or who understand the game the "Gase police". Lol, so cute. Then imagine and throw out as fact that having an injured QB for the majority of his 1 out of 3 stops is blaming his "failures" on everyone else. Amazing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 41 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Are we really going to ignore Jarvis Landry, Antonio Calloway, David Njoku, Nick Chubb and a significantly better OL? look I’m not saying you aren’t right but the browns record and their offensive talent doesn’t really have the connection you are trying to make them have. They had been steadily stocking up on offensive talent for quite some time. They lost games because they didn’t have the QB. This all came together for them just this past year. This would be my only gripe with your post, otherwise, it’s a fair post. You make a good point about them only needing a QB. i could try to counter it with “how really talented were those guys if they were historically bad for two years and two more games”, but we’d both be spinning our wheels. Plus if I’m being honest, I don’t want to die on that hill because there’s a big part of me that agrees with you. The talent of the two teams wasn’t the main point of what I’ve been debating in this thread anyway. It somehow evolved there away from the main topic, which was #1 surprise at someone taking Mayfield first in the draft over Darnold, and then went to #2 about how Darnold actually showed he was the better QB last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post slats Posted July 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said: Are we really going to ignore Jarvis Landry, Antonio Calloway, David Njoku, Nick Chubb and a significantly better OL? look I’m not saying you aren’t right but the browns record and their offensive talent doesn’t really have the connection you are trying to make them have. They had been steadily stocking up on offensive talent for quite some time. They lost games because they didn’t have the QB. This all came together for them just this past year. This would be my only gripe with your post, otherwise, it’s a fair post. The Browns had more talent (and will again this year), but also Mayfield had twice the college starting experience that Darnold had. It's no surprise that Mayfield had a better rookie year as a result of all of that. If he lasted to #3, Mac and Bowles might still be employed by the Jets. So, cool. When it comes to careers, I wouldn't bet against Darnold having the better one. We'll see. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestater Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 15 hours ago, SAR I said: In terms of pedigree and experience level, Adam Gase trumps them all. SAR I At least at the time of hiring. I wanted an experienced HC this time around. Like you've been saying forever, no more rookie HCs. Can't afford to have a guy learning on the job while he supposed to be developing Sam. I was skeptical, wanted McCarthy (looks like that it was for the best that we passed on him), but the fact that he had the acumen and ability to figure out what an albatross Macc was, and dispatch him without much trouble, has really made me a supporter. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 18 hours ago, 14 in Green said: Agree with you about Allen and the running last year, but he also has the strongest arm of the QBs taken last year in my opinion. He’s very wild with it though. When you look at their seasons though, there wasn’t much to separate him and Darnold. And Browning Nagle had at worst the same type arm as Allen. Somehow never developed. Darnold has 85+% of his arm, can make every throw, never comes up short on his ability to hit a pass. The rest of their games Darnold is ahead of Allen in every area other than running forward for yardage. More importantly Darnold is better in the pocket, better at sliding around the pocket and in just about every way that you should judge a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 11 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Really. Not what ex players say. Not why Manning says. Cutler. just throw it out there that he should have let the injured Tannehill throw it all over the place. And listen to the same old whining by Fidelio. Every thread, every day, all day. Don't have anything to say, call those who don't agree or who understand the game the "Gase police". Lol, so cute. Then imagine and throw out as fact that having an injured QB for the majority of his 1 out of 3 stops is blaming his "failures" on everyone else. Amazing Every time I read one of your posts on the topic of Gase, I start hearing you singing this song in the back of my head..... Thankfully, in just a few months, we will all be able to evaluate Gase and his performance for ourselves, on our team, with a very talented offense led by a great young developing QB prospect and one of if not the best RB in the NFL. We won't have to argue over if Gase's past. We'll all have Gase's present to think about instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: And Browning Nagle had at worst the same type arm as Allen. Somehow never developed. Darnold has 85+% of his arm, can make every throw, never comes up short on his ability to hit a pass. The rest of their games Darnold is ahead of Allen in every area other than running forward for yardage. More importantly Darnold is better in the pocket, better at sliding around the pocket and in just about every way that you should judge a QB. The other thing I think in terms of “accuracy” is, accurate guys rarely if ever miss the easy throws. How often did Sam miss wide open guys or sail or skip passes. How difficult did he make throws hard to catch. Then think back to Mark (who I liked) who was constantly missing the easy ones, throwing behind or too far in front or throwing at the receivers feet. Sanchez was an inaccurate QB that was never going to improve his comp %. Sam is very accurate and his comp % will climb over the next few years and then settle in at the 65% plus rate. Doesn’t mean he’s become more accurate, just that things will naturally fall into place as he matures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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