Quinnen Williams TRADE

[Rob123]

I go back and forth and often look at the Jet D and say "if it is not broke, don't fix it", hold off on trading anyone.  Then I look at Quinnen Williams and change my mind.  I might waiver but in reality I think the best move for the Jets would be to trade Williams.  I think there are a number of reasons why this just makes the most sense.

Look at the Jet defense and ask how much Quinnen Williams has contributed?  It is safe to say the Jet defense is very good and Quinnen Williams has not been a big contributor or factor.  He has provided the production one would expect from a third or fourth round pick and not the number 3 pick in the draft.  That said his play is certainly not hurting them and my argument for trading him is they don't need much beyond what he providing.

Ask this question- if Williams becomes what his biggest defenders hope and pray he becomes- how much better does that make the Jet defense? CJ Mosely is not going anywhere and he is a force when he is on the field.  He will be back next  year to make this outstanding unit even better.  With where the Jets are now and a returning Mosely next year they certainly do not need Williams to get better to field a competitive team.  The Jets have an outstanding defense as long as they simply have an adequate DT. 

Right now Williams is giving you what many 3rd or 4th round DT's will give you.  I believe the Jets should consider trading him now especially for multiple picks in this draft because you can replace his production with a 3rd rounder, of which the Jets have an extra.  The Jets would be a better team in 2020- or certainly no worse- if they traded Williams for a first and third rounder and then replaced him with the 3rd rounder.  If the Jets can get a first rounder they can even use that on a DT in memorium of Idzik and Macagnan and spend the extra third rounder on a receiver or OL help.  There are multiple scenarios where the Jets are simply a better team with the return they would get for Williams than with him at DT.

If the Jets are a tremendous defense with Williams simply playing the position, then why not trade him, when his value is likely near its high point.

There are reasons beyond it making the team better.  A trade like this after what looks like a successful end of the season surge showing improvement might really boost the fanbase.  Taking Quinnen Williams at number 3 was a mistake.  The Jets did not need a defensive tackle, and especially didn't need to take one so high.  It was ridiculous not to address the OL after making a major trade to draft  Sam Darnold.  Quinnen Williams was not the player for the Jets to take at 3 and it would be nice if ownership made a move and said "we get it, bad decisions were made regarding player personal and we are doing what we can to move on from it".

I know, and respect, many want to stay positive but this was the wrong pick on so many levels.  The Jets selected Christian Hackenberg with a second round pick.  They passed on Mahomes and then they had to really pay a high price to move up to draft Darnold.  The Jets had no choice because they were looking for a franchise QB for 50 years.  They finally get one but had to pay a high price because FQBs are not cheap.  What happens if he gets injured?  Shouldn't protecting him from injury been priority 1?  Under the circumstances, an OL to protect Darnold from injury, acquiring picks to recoup what you traded and a player's readiness to contribute should have been the deciding factors in deciding what to do with that pick.   The number 3 was not the time to take a project player who needs time to develop.  The fact the preceding factors were not and Macagnan was so incompetent was a slap in the face to a fanbase that has been taken for granted by ownership for a very long time.  Ownership should do something that says "we get it, the wrong decisions were made".  Think about it- the only person who would draft Williams at 3 in the position the Jets were in was Macagnan- every other executive would have traded down or at least  drafted a position of need.  Everyone in Football expected the Jets to trade down because it made to sense to take Williams when you didn't have a second round pick.

The number 3 pick in the draft should contribute immediately.  Williams contributions have been minimal and there are questions as to him being a legitimate draft bust.  If the Jets can cut bait now and recoup a first rounder that could be used on productive offensive player they should do it.  Right now even if he is a bust, he still has value.  A team in the Jets position- with the players and personal they have now- can do a great deal with an additional first round draft pick at this time.  If the Jets get a first rounder for him and use it on a difference making receiver they would be a better team.  What makes the Jets better- Quinnen Williams at his full potential or Darnold with a number one receiver or sick OL comprised of 2 first round picks?   Based on the personal the Jets have now what makes them the best team- Williams at his full potential at DT or Darnold with a number 1 receiver or an impenetrable line that would also help Bell?

Look at Jadaveon Clowney- he was a high pick who never amounted to anything more than good player and certainly not worth the  top pick in the draft.  Nobody can predict the future and the idea it is a given that if given time Williams will turn into a force is simply not true.  Many arguments defending Williams come from people with this false belief that if a player is taken high in the draft  that means if given time they will eventually be a star.  This is not true and many top 5 picks never pan out.  I ask anyone who wants to keep Williams 2 questions 1)Point out what he has done and what part of his game make you feel he will improve.  They had a weight room at Alabama and he had access to one with the Jets- save the weights argument 2) Tell me what is different about Williams compared to other players who didn't pan out.  Also explain this one- if his performance is because of conditioning that means he is not in the best football shape.  Isn't this the sign of a draft bust?  Isn't a guy not being in the best condition to compete and excel after being chosen so high in the draft a sign of the player being a bust?

This is the New York market.  Quinnen Williams was the 3rd overall pick and has done nothing to live up to that.  As I said before- the poor start, the Darnold injury, the Macagnan mutiny and all the other bull early insulated questions about Quinnen Williams.  People were talking about the first year coach on the hot seat and not Williams failures.  The media and fans will be merciless and relentless if he does not perform.  If Williams can't deliver what is expected of a 3rd pick things will be miserable for him.  He would be better off being traded to the  Texans as a rookie where he would not have to deal with the failed expectations.  Like it or not based on how things stand right now Williams may be mentioned with guys like Vernon Gholston when it comes to all time draft busts.

I will close with this to those who say "he needs time to develop".  You don't draft  guys at #3 who need time to develop.  This was the wrong pick the way the Kyle Brady pick was the wrong one.

 

[joewilly12]

[Patriot Killa]

These my thoughts thread 

fuxking exhilarating.

[Scott Dierking]

You are having quite a first week here.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

You are having quite a first week here.

Yes he/she is. 

[New York Mick]

4 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

I go back and forth and often look at the Jet D and say "if it is not broke, don't fix it", hold off on trading anyone.  Then I look at Quinnen Williams and change my mind.  I might waiver but in reality I think the best move for the Jets would be to trade Williams.  I think there are a number of reasons why this just makes the most sense.

Look at the Jet defense and ask how much Quinnen Williams has contributed?  It is safe to say the Jet defense is very good and Quinnen Williams has not been a big contributor or factor.  He has provided the production one would expect from a third or fourth round pick and not the number 3 pick in the draft.  That said his play is certainly not hurting them and my argument for trading him is they don't need much beyond what he providing.

Ask this question- if Williams becomes what his biggest defenders hope and pray he becomes- how much better does that make the Jet defense? CJ Mosely is not going anywhere and he is a force when he is on the field.  He will be back next  year to make this outstanding unit even better.  With where the Jets are now and a returning Mosely next year they certainly do not need Williams to get better to field a competitive team.  The Jets have an outstanding defense as long as they simply have an adequate DT. 

Right now Williams is giving you what many 3rd or 4th round DT's will give you.  I believe the Jets should consider trading him now especially for multiple picks in this draft because you can replace his production with a 3rd rounder, of which the Jets have an extra.  The Jets would be a better team in 2020- or certainly no worse- if they traded Williams for a first and third rounder and then replaced him with the 3rd rounder.  If the Jets can get a first rounder they can even use that on a DT in memorium of Idzik and Macagnan and spend the extra third rounder on a receiver or OL help.  There are multiple scenarios where the Jets are simply a better team with the return they would get for Williams than with him at DT.

If the Jets are a tremendous defense with Williams simply playing the position, then why not trade him, when his value is likely near its high point.

There are reasons beyond it making the team better.  A trade like this after what looks like a successful end of the season surge showing improvement might really boost the fanbase.  Taking Quinnen Williams at number 3 was a mistake.  The Jets did not need a defensive tackle, and especially didn't need to take one so high.  It was ridiculous not to address the OL after making a major trade to draft  Sam Darnold.  Quinnen Williams was not the player for the Jets to take at 3 and it would be nice if ownership made a move and said "we get it, bad decisions were made regarding player personal and we are doing what we can to move on from it".

I know, and respect, many want to stay positive but this was the wrong pick on so many levels.  The Jets selected Christian Hackenberg with a second round pick.  They passed on Mahomes and then they had to really pay a high price to move up to draft Darnold.  The Jets had no choice because they were looking for a franchise QB for 50 years.  They finally get one but had to pay a high price because FQBs are not cheap.  What happens if he gets injured?  Shouldn't protecting him from injury been priority 1?  Under the circumstances, an OL to protect Darnold from injury, acquiring picks to recoup what you traded and a player's readiness to contribute should have been the deciding factors in deciding what to do with that pick.   The number 3 was not the time to take a project player who needs time to develop.  The fact the preceding factors were not and Macagnan was so incompetent was a slap in the face to a fanbase that has been taken for granted by ownership for a very long time.  Ownership should do something that says "we get it, the wrong decisions were made".  Think about it- the only person who would draft Williams at 3 in the position the Jets were in was Macagnan- every other executive would have traded down or at least  drafted a position of need.  Everyone in Football expected the Jets to trade down because it made to sense to take Williams when you didn't have a second round pick.

The number 3 pick in the draft should contribute immediately.  Williams contributions have been minimal and there are questions as to him being a legitimate draft bust.  If the Jets can cut bait now and recoup a first rounder that could be used on productive offensive player they should do it.  Right now even if he is a bust, he still has value.  A team in the Jets position- with the players and personal they have now- can do a great deal with an additional first round draft pick at this time.  If the Jets get a first rounder for him and use it on a difference making receiver they would be a better team.  What makes the Jets better- Quinnen Williams at his full potential or Darnold with a number one receiver or sick OL comprised of 2 first round picks?   Based on the personal the Jets have now what makes them the best team- Williams at his full potential at DT or Darnold with a number 1 receiver or an impenetrable line that would also help Bell?

Look at Jadaveon Clowney- he was a high pick who never amounted to anything more than good player and certainly not worth the  top pick in the draft.  Nobody can predict the future and the idea it is a given that if given time Williams will turn into a force is simply not true.  Many arguments defending Williams come from people with this false belief that if a player is taken high in the draft  that means if given time they will eventually be a star.  This is not true and many top 5 picks never pan out.  I ask anyone who wants to keep Williams 2 questions 1)Point out what he has done and what part of his game make you feel he will improve.  They had a weight room at Alabama and he had access to one with the Jets- save the weights argument 2) Tell me what is different about Williams compared to other players who didn't pan out.  Also explain this one- if his performance is because of conditioning that means he is not in the best football shape.  Isn't this the sign of a draft bust?  Isn't a guy not being in the best condition to compete and excel after being chosen so high in the draft a sign of the player being a bust?

This is the New York market.  Quinnen Williams was the 3rd overall pick and has done nothing to live up to that.  As I said before- the poor start, the Darnold injury, the Macagnan mutiny and all the other bull early insulated questions about Quinnen Williams.  People were talking about the first year coach on the hot seat and not Williams failures.  The media and fans will be merciless and relentless if he does not perform.  If Williams can't deliver what is expected of a 3rd pick things will be miserable for him.  He would be better off being traded to the  Texans as a rookie where he would not have to deal with the failed expectations.  Like it or not based on how things stand right now Williams may be mentioned with guys like Vernon Gholston when it comes to all time draft busts.

I will close with this to those who say "he needs time to develop".  You don't draft  guys at #3 who need time to develop.  This was the wrong pick the way the Kyle Brady pick was the wrong one.

 

FFS you’re long winded. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You are having quite a first week here.

Bro...I f'ing love this place! ?

[Losmeister]

" you're talking alot, but you're not saying anything"

if you aint already put this goober on ignore list its your own fault...   i only opened the OP to see how LONG it was.

[jgb]

This JD is good. Trading people after the trade deadline. 3D chess.

[PS17]

Quite an essay 

[Rob123]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

" you're talking alot, but you're not saying anything"

if you aint already put this goober on ignore list its your own fault...   i only opened the OP to see how LONG it was.

I didn't realize you were in charge around here.  Trust  me the  Post  is  not meant for stupid people, so I am glad you claim to ignore me.   Although, you reading and commenting on what I said is the opposite of ignoring someone.  This is what makes it so clear you are  an idiot.

You are so stupid that at this point in your pathetic life you do not know the definition of the word ignore.  I am not ignoring  you because I think you are so stupid, that  it should be pointed out to everyone.

Now let me ask do you have your own computer at group home or do you share  one?

[kdels62]

So many words to say so little

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, Rob123 said:

I didn't realize you were in charge around here.  Trust  me the  Post  is  not meant for stupid people, so I am glad you claim to ignore me.   Although, you reading and commenting on what I said is the opposite of ignoring someone.  This is what makes it so clear you are  an idiot.

You are so stupid that at this point in your pathetic life you do not know the definition of the word ignore.  I am not ignoring  you because I think you are so stupid, that  it should be pointed out to everyone.

Now let me ask do you have your own computer at group home or do you share  one?

So you’re saying people that can’t afford their own computers are beneath you?

[Joe W. Namath]

Quinnen Williams will be one of the best defensive players in the league in the next few years.

After making some great progress, jet fans have reverted back to being morons again.

[Jets723]

We get it dude....you want to trade him.  I think some are extremely paranoid that he is Leo Williams 2.0.  Can we give the kid time?  He hasn’t been bad despite what some claim. He has dealt with injuries too.    Personally I would of been happy with Allen but I was absolutely fine with drafting Williams.  They aren’t trading the number 3 pick after 1 season so you might as well deal with it. 

[Rob123]

Just now, kdels62 said:

So you’re saying people that can’t afford their own computers are beneath you?

No, I am saying someone who likely has limited internet because their content must be monitored while living in a group home is an idiot. 

Really, do you have issues.  I said the guy was an idiot- where did I say anything about anyone being above or below anyone.  You have issues if that is what you took from that and I am 100% serious.  Where on earth did you get that?  You are nuts.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

I didn't realize you were in charge around here.  Trust  me the  Post  is  not meant for stupid people, so I am glad you claim to ignore me.   Although, you reading and commenting on what I said is the opposite of ignoring someone.  This is what makes it so clear you are  an idiot.

You are so stupid that at this point in your pathetic life you do not know the definition of the word ignore.  I am not ignoring  you because I think you are so stupid, that  it should be pointed out to everyone.

Now let me ask do you have your own computer at group home or do you share  one?

Welcome. Farewell.

[Beerfish]

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

No, I am saying someone who likely has limited internet because their content must be monitored while living in a group home is an idiot. 

Really, do you have issues.  I said the guy was an idiot- where did I say anything about anyone being above or below anyone.  You have issues if that is what you took from that and I am 100% serious.  Where on earth did you get that?  You are nuts.

So you’re calling him an idiot but also the same as you?

[Rob123]

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So you’re saying people that can’t afford their own computers are beneath you?

To be clear- I don't like you and don't want to interact with you.  I have no respect for you either so just move on from my posts.  You might think you have some authority but you don't.  There is nothing  you can do to me on a Jets message  board so the idea I would refrain from saying anything because  you might not like it is ridiculous.  Look yourself in the mirror and realize you are the type of person to stick your nose into an argument two people are having  on a message board.  You have so little to do you  involve yourself in others arguments.

[southparkcpa]

Jesus.... this thread makes me want to vomit. Yes, trade a rookie 3rd pick after 11 games or so.  that sounds brilliant. 

[New York Mick]

19 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

" you're talking alot, but you're not saying anything"

if you aint already put this goober on ignore list its your own fault...   i only opened the OP to see how LONG it was.

Your ego is amazing 

[De-Jet-Erate/Duane]

8 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

 

You are so stupid that at this point in your pathetic life you do not know the definition of the word ignore.  I am not ignoring  you because I think you are so stupid, that  it should be pointed out to everyone.

 

You should probably reread the Stop Fighting thread before you pi$$ all over Max's Thanksgiving mashed potatoes.  (He really likes mashed potatoes)

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

To be clear- I don't like you and don't want to interact with you.  I have no respect for you either so just move on from my posts.  You might think you have some authority but you don't.  There is nothing  you can do to me on a Jets message  board so the idea I would refrain from saying anything because  you might not like it is ridiculous.  Look yourself in the mirror and realize you are the type of person to stick your nose into an argument two people are having  on a message board.  You have so little to do you  involve yourself in others arguments.

Posts screed on a public messageboard. Tells others they have no right to get involved.

[New York Mick]

3 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

To be clear- I don't like you and don't want to interact with you.  I have no respect for you either so just move on from my posts.  You might think you have some authority but you don't.  There is nothing  you can do to me on a Jets message  board so the idea I would refrain from saying anything because  you might not like it is ridiculous.  Look yourself in the mirror and realize you are the type of person to stick your nose into an argument two people are having  on a message board.  You have so little to do you  involve yourself in others arguments.

You’re going to fit right in

[Jets723]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Jesus.... this thread makes me want to vomit. Yes, trade a rookie 3rd round pick after 11 games or so.  that sounds brilliant. 

Exactly.  Unfortunately there is a good amount of fans who agree.  Any pick of Mike Maccagnan is gonna be polarizing which I think is ridiculous.  The guy did an overall bad job but he got some things right to be fair.  But the fact that people want to trade a young and talented kid after a handful of games is insane

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

To be clear- I don't like you and don't want to interact with you.  I have no respect for you either so just move on from my posts.  You might think you have some authority but you don't.  There is nothing  you can do to me on a Jets message  board so the idea I would refrain from saying anything because  you might not like it is ridiculous.  Look yourself in the mirror and realize you are the type of person to stick your nose into an argument two people are having  on a message board.  You have so little to do you  involve yourself in others arguments.

You can’t monitor me this an internet message board. Look yourself in the mirror and realize that you’re the type of person that tries to police my involvement in an open discussion on this internet message board.

[Rob123]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

So you’re calling him an idiot but also the same as you?

Wow you're clever.  I tell you- boy am I  impressed by your wit and intellect.  The saddest part is you are clearly in the forum and it actually took you time to think of that comment.  You are pushing 60 and that is the best you can come up with?

Let me guess- your next response will be "I know you are but what  am I" or are you going to say the jerk store called?  Someone with your cutting  edge wit and intellect really should come up with something better.  

I bet your therapist and treating doctor would call this progress.  Instead of getting involved in others  arguments you started one of your own.

Yes this immature exchange is sad but what is sadder is the fact this guy will sit and think of a comeback and then post it two days later.  Two people are arguing on a nameless message board and this idiot  kdels has nothing better to do but get involved.

[Tony MaC]

Well a trade ain't happening till the offseason, it's past the deadline.

And as for his performance related to his draft status... it hasn't been up to snuff, no. I would expect more from a top 3 pick than a few plays demonstrating his strength and size. 

But trading him feels like jumping the gun. He was drafted on his upside as much as his supposed plug and play abilities, probably even more so. I'd like to see what he comes up with after a full season and pro offseason regiment underneath his belt. He'll only be 22 next year after all. He's far from done.

Maybe he'll be like Leo who never put his potential together. Maybe not. But trading a very young player of his measurables after a mediocre rookie campaign is premature. Give him time to gel.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Williams is really good. It's the rest of the line that sucks. If Shepherd and Phillips and Fatukasi were actually any good, McLendon and Anderson wouldn't be starting hurt. If we had a pass rusher and anybody else who could play nose tackle, Williams would be playing a lot more 3-technique and judging his numbers based on that would be reasonable. But as things stand most of his snaps are coming either at 1-technique or as one of only two down linemen. The Jets have been doing some really weird sh*t with defensive formations to compensate for the obvious personnel shortcomings and Williams has been a huge part of making it all work.

[Rob123]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

You can’t monitor me this an internet message board. Look yourself in the mirror and realize that you’re the type of person that tries to police my involvement in an open discussion on this internet message board.

No he and I were having an exchange and would have moved on. You decided to involve yourself and added nothing to the situation.  Dude- how is not liking you policing anything?  I am making it clear I have no respect for you and can care less what you think- ignore me and don't respond.  If you are that pathetic that you want to interact with someone who says they don't want to hear from you, then you have a screw loose in the head.

Do you even know what policing means?  Look at your response.  Sometimes you can have fun fighting if a person is clever.  You are clearly not and the type of guy who stays very quiet in public because they are afraid of getting beaten up.

Seriously- I responded to someone I view as a loser and you- who I don't  know from Adam and who the other guy probably does not know either- decided to get  involved.

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, Rob123 said:

Wow you're clever.  I tell you- boy am I  impressed by your wit and intellect.  The saddest part is you are clearly in the forum and it actually took you time to think of that comment.  You are pushing 60 and that is the best you can come up with?

Let me guess- your next response will be "I know you are but what  am I" or are you going to say the jerk store called?  Someone with your cutting  edge wit and intellect really should come up with something better.  

I bet your therapist and treating doctor would call this progress.  Instead of getting involved in others  arguments you started one of your own.

Yes this immature exchange is sad but what is sadder is the fact this guy will sit and think of a comeback and then post it two days later.  Two people are arguing on a nameless message board and this idiot  kdels has nothing better to do but get involved.

Is this two days later?

[joewilly12]

22 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So many words to say so little

Have you seen his/her other thread starters. 

[kdels62]

Just now, Rob123 said:

No he and I were having an exchange and would have moved on. You decided to involve yourself and added nothing to the situation.  Dude- how is not liking you policing anything?  I am making it clear I have no respect for you and can care less what you think- ignore me and don't respond.  If you are that pathetic that you want to interact with someone who says they don't want to hear from you, then you have a screw loose in the head.

Do you even know what policing means?  Look at your response.  Sometimes you can have fun fighting if a person is clever.  You are clearly not and the type of guy who stays very quiet in public because they are afraid of getting beaten up.

Seriously- I responded to someone I view as a loser and you- who I don't  know from Adam and who the other guy probably does not know either- decided to get  involved.

I also responded to someone I view as a loser.

[Rob123]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Is this two days later?

Proves my point- go away little man or woman- nobody wants to talk to you.