Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Mafia - Game Thread

[GATA]

7 hours ago, Nolder said:

Ok so I've done this whole song and dance before so normally I'd just be like dude you're wrong and leave it at that but since there are newbies around perhaps what I am saying will sink in for some of them.

 

Ok, claiming. The first thing I think we need to ask ourselves is what is the point of it. What are you trying to accomplish when you claim? If your answer is "to save myself/to prevent a mislynch" then 9 times out of 10 that's the wrong answer. Obviously lynching town is not ideal but, and allow me some all caps here for emphasis, IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. Town is the majority of the game and we don't know who's who the odds of ******* up and lynching town are in our favor and finding scum by chance is not. The game is designed to give us wiggle room with lynches and if it doesn't then it was badly balanced. So unless the next lynch is the end of the game or you have a power role (more on that in a second) you shouldn't be claiming just to prevent your lynch. 

 

So when should you claim? Well first of all if you're a VT (Vanilla Town ie no powers) then you should never claim. Ever. I can't think of a circumstance where you should do it but if it even exists it is very niche and specific and does not apply to almost any other game or situation. Ok so you're probably like uhhh that's dumb why don't I just claim and stop the town from lynching me so we can lynch scum? Well I'm glad you (didn't) ask that question. Your role as a VT is extremely valuable even though most people find it boring. You have the luxury of being able to be outspoken and/or go at who you think is scum hard without worrying about losing the town a role if scum shoot you or you're lynched. In addition you are cover for the people who actually have roles. If scum is busy shooting you or setting up your lynch they're not doing it to the cop or the doc. As soon as you claim though the jig is up. Especially on Day 1. Scum know you're not a threat (not like the threat of a hidden cop anyway) and will slink away and run up someone else and press for a claim until they've outed enough vanillas that they can figure out the power roles by process of elimination or until they've actually outed a power role. In most games it doesn't take many claims for this to occur.

 

Ok, you're thinking, fine, but I'm a Cop/Doc/Vig/whatever/etc/etc/etc not a vanilla. My role is important and should be saved! Well..........yes and no. Truth is if you're on the chopping block already you've basically ****ed up (or maybe it was out of your control but either way you're ****ed) and it's better to go down with your role than to blab it. First of all once you claim scum are going to know you're telling the truth and they have several options of dealing with you not the least of which is feigning disbelief and pushing your lynch anyways. Other methods include shooting you, leaving you alive to cause more suspicion, roleblocking you, and more. Secondly unless you're going to give Town something they are probably better off lynching you. What I mean by this is if you're on the chopping block it's because people don't trust you. You claiming to be something, even something really useful like a doc or a cop, should not change how people feel about you. If they didn't trust you before you claimed why would they trust you after you claimed? Now, some people do play this way. Those people are stupid and should be disregarded. They should not be trusting you. Smash is a PERFECT example for this lesson. He claimed to be a Role Cop and he was called out on it. There were reasons to leave him alive following a certain logic but the bottom line was we couldn't trust him and so even if he was legit a role cop anything he said would be suspect until he was dead anyway. So we lynched him for scum and despite him having a 1x lynch immune we were still right about him. In an alternate scenario he could just have been a mafia goon.

 

The last thing I want to say is about when you should probably claim. Because contrary to what some people have said or mischaracterized what I am trying to say I am NOT saying you should NEVER claim. Just that you should ALMOST NEVER claim. There are a few situations I think you can and should claim. The most common situation is as a cop. If you are a cop and you have at least 2 or 3 investigations under your belt I think it can be ok to claim if you're under pressure so you can deliver your results to the town. Another situation is if you're a Vig and you made a bad shot and killed a townie. Could even have been a power role or something. Sometimes it's better to come clean and beg towns forgiveness rather than stay in the shadows. If it sounds like this is a bit vague it's because it is. Every game is different and there are times where you can pull something off against the odds. Use your own judgment with the knowledge that I've pointed out earlier in this post. If you understand the purpose of your role and the state of the game the question of whether to claim or not should come to you pretty easily and I hope in the future most of you decide it's better to go down with your role rather than blab it to everyone including and especially scum.

 

 

Ok so did you read anything I said because you didn’t address it 

[GATA]

15 hours ago, A.J. said:

Until Verb said he was going to blow your robochic head off - which he didn’t - you shouldn’t have claimed. Short list or no

ape wasn’t volunteering to die. He suggested Verb shoot him ONLY if Verb wasn’t allowed to holster and was too afraid to shoot someone else

you gave up free info to scum for nothing. You’re not the only one but it’s still not something you should do if you can avoid it

Free info of 1 VT in a sea of townies at that point. Yup lots of information 

[GATA]

9 hours ago, GATA said:

I don’t get it doc on the vote poll said shoot

you said holster @Spoot-Face

^^^ @Spoot-Face

[Gone]

23 minutes ago, Beaver said:

What do you get paid to do?

I'm a military vetrenerian in the Israeli defence forces.

[A.J.]

Seems for the most part we are in agreement that Spoot is lying and needs to swing

If someone puts him to L-1 I would love to hammer 

[A.J.]

4 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Also question to the players who have played more recently than i have, we used to have a rule on here about how many times you can target the same person every night as doc, has that rule still been a thing or has that changed? 

This is Mod dependent in my experience

[A.J.]

34 minutes ago, GATA said:

Free info of 1 VT in a sea of townies at that point. Yup lots of information 

your software is outta date or something

[Beaver]

40 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

I'm a military vetrenerian in the Israeli defence forces.

Likely story.   I smell scum or Spoot is lying and I found the doc

[Jetsfan80]

Day 4 Vote Count

• Spoot (6) - JVOR, jvill 51, GATA, Nolder, JustEndTheSuffering, pdxgreen
• pdxgreen (3) - A.J., JC, Beaver
• JC (1) - Spoot

Not Voting (5) - 32EBoozer, Stark, Drums, BUM-KNEE, ID.

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.  

[Jetscode1]

49 minutes ago, A.J. said:

Seems for the most part we are in agreement that Spoot is lying and needs to swing

If someone puts him to L-1 I would love to hammer 

Are we having doubt about Spoot without a counter?

[A.J.]

4 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Are we having doubt about Spoot without a counter?

Would we be having this discussion if not for the claim?

He’s just trying to save his skin.

[Jetscode1]

1 minute ago, A.J. said:

Would we be having this discussion if not for the claim?

He’s just trying to save his skin.

You are probably right but the play here is to wait for a counter.  Although, I'd expect "the real Doc" to lead here and Spoot just shriveled up.

[Nolder]

1 hour ago, GATA said:

Ok so did you read anything I said because you didn’t address it 

Thanks

[Jetscode1]

Has Stark posted at all this weekend?

[Nolder]

This is why I just tell people they're wrong and Move on.

No one gives a **** when I explain myself anyway.

[A.J.]

3 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Has Stark posted at all this weekend?

It was yesterday or Friday, I think. Made the obligatory “sorry I was wrong about you CTM” post after the death scene but hasn’t been back that I remember

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Just now, Jetscode1 said:

You are probably right but the play here is to wait for a counter.  Although, I'd expect "the real Doc" to lead here and Spoot just shriveled up.

Why are you doing this? The whole point of scum faking doc is to find the real doc to try to kill. As i explained above, mafia is under pressure because they haven’t found power roles and time is ticking for them. 

i’m not against trying to lynch someone else if you’re really that worried but a real doc shouldn’t counter right now. Frankly that’s suspicious as hell that you are suggesting it. 

That being said, personally i feel like spoot has been very obviously scum for a while so i’m fine fast forwarding through the mechanics but i’m open to lynching someone else if everyone wants to play it “safe”. 

[Jetscode1]

13 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

When I flip Town Doc, take a hard look at AJ for not wanting to play this out.

This escalated quickly.  I'm not buying your reveal either.  Why you still voting a known town player?  

[Jetscode1]

12 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Nighty night, then.

Weird post.  The wording.  

[Jetscode1]

12 hours ago, jvill 51 said:

@Spoot-Face on night 2 why did you protect yourself and not Verbal? Smash had just claimed he was unlynchable and like you said you’ve been on the hot seat from Day 1. If Smash really was unlynchable, our only shot to take him out would have been the vig.

Smart question here.  Did Spoot ever answer this?

[Jetscode1]

5 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Also question to the players who have played more recently than i have, we used to have a rule on here about how many times you can target the same person every night as doc, has that rule still been a thing or has that changed? 

depends on the mod.

[Jetscode1]

7 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Why are you doing this? The whole point of scum faking doc is to find the real doc to try to kill. As i explained above, mafia is under pressure because they haven’t found power roles and time is ticking for them. 

i’m not against trying to lynch someone else if you’re really that worried but a real doc shouldn’t counter right now. Frankly that’s suspicious as hell that you are suggesting it. 

That being said, personally i feel like spoot has been very obviously scum for a while so i’m fine fast forwarding through the mechanics but i’m open to lynching someone else if everyone wants to play it “safe”. 

I'm just trying to jump start the "what's next" conversation. 

I could vote Spoot and let AJ hammer but I don't trust AJ enough yet and the ramifications of being wrong would devastate town.  AJ and I would most likely swing and swing fast.  Would AJ offer himself up to take out the Doc?  

I could keep my vote on pdx and encourage others to join me but that just kicks the Spoot can down the road. 

I can call for a counter.

Not exactly sure where I'm at yet but we at least need to have the conversation and we definitely need for all the players to weigh in before proceeding. 

[A.J.]

I would say for there not to be a counter claim. We can look at Spoot’s play in isolation, which is how we got here in the first place. The claim doesn’t suddenly make everything brought against him go away. Scum HAS to claim a PR in this spot because 1) it might save them, and 2) they might draw out the real PR to counter claim or make it obvious who they are.

But for the sake of “correct” play since this is a newbie game, yes waiting for everyone to weigh in would be the way to go.

For the record I don’t believe the claim and my offer stands.

[JustEndTheSuffering]

7 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

I'm just trying to jump start the "what's next" conversation. 

I could vote Spoot and let AJ hammer but I don't trust AJ enough yet and the ramifications of being wrong would devastate town.  AJ and I would most likely swing and swing fast.  Would AJ offer himself up to take out the Doc?  

I could keep my vote on pdx and encourage others to join me but that just kicks the Spoot can down the road. 

I can call for a counter.

Not exactly sure where I'm at yet but we at least need to have the conversation and we definitely need for all the players to weigh in before proceeding. 

I think you might as well just vote spoot at this point because I think it’s inevitable he’s going to get lynched. I doubt you’re going to flip people to pdx. Let’s get those last two votes and move on the next scum. 

[Jetscode1]

2 minutes ago, JustEndTheSuffering said:

I think you might as well just vote spoot at this point because I think it’s inevitable he’s going to get lynched. I doubt you’re going to flip people to pdx. Let’s get those last two votes and move on the next scum. 

Thanks for this.  I still want others to chime in but I'm definitely leaning toward voting Spoot.

[Gone]

58 minutes ago, Beaver said:

Likely story.   I smell scum or Spoot is lying and I found the doc

Lol  mayhaps

[Nolder]

Just for clarifies sake I think Spoot, like Smash, is lying and actually just mafia.

Not much else to say about it imo.

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Day 4 Vote Count

• Spoot (6) - JVOR, jvill 51, GATA, Nolder, JustEndTheSuffering, pdxgreen
• pdxgreen (3) - A.J., JC, Beaver
• JC (1) - Spoot

Not Voting (5) - 32EBoozer, Stark, Drums, BUM-KNEE, ID.

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.  

Very quiet and still from the bolded group.

[Beaver]

I’m kind of in agreement with Nolder.  There isn’t much left to other than to vote.  I’m sticking with pdxgreen cause he and 32EBoozer, were so quiet from the beginning that I felt something was off.   And also since I completely forgot about 32EBoozer wasn’t sure if he was replaced or still playing gives me pause.

[Beaver]

Plus I don’t want this to come down to just voting against vets just because they are a vet

[Beaver]

Well fudge.   I pulled a JiF and was playing while on the crapper.   During that time Arsenal scored twice and I missed it.    This is no bueno.

[Jetscode1]

What ya thinking @Drums?

[Jetscode1]

You ready @A.J.?

[Jetscode1]

Too many people not playing.  I'm ready.

[Jetscode1]

Vote Spoot