Taking a look at the Tackles and scheme fit

[choon328]

Just basing this off is what Manish had in his article about how JD gives rating the players and how he values players who fit the offensive and defensive systems rather than just giving players an arbitrary rounds grades. I decided to take a look at the offensive lineman in the draft to see who the Jets would possibly see as scheme fits and who may not be a scheme fit.

Based on reports and on the lineman they signed in FA I think the front office values these traits:

-High IQ (Limited Penalties)
-Versatility (Multi position flexibility)
-Agility/Quickness (Wide offensive line splits)
-Better pass protector than run blocker

With those traits in mind here are my thoughts on a bunch of the Tackles in the draft that I believe are scheme fits:

Jedrick Wills: Hits all of the boxes above. Great scheme fit

Andrew Thomas: High IQ, not as agile as Wills but agile enough. Very good pass protector

Tristan Wirfs: Hits all of the boxes as well. Needs some cleaning up in pass protection. Great scheme fit

Josh Jones: Good enough IQ. Still needs work on technique but has the quickness to become an elite tackle. Great scheme fit

Ezra Cleveland: Very quick very talented pass protector. Not as adept at run blocking. Great scheme fit

Austin Jackson: Very quick feet, very good in pass protection. Still needs some work on technique. Good scheme fit.

Trey Adams: Injury history aside he may be one of the cleaner tackles in the draft. His injury concerns will drop him a round or two but when healthy he's a 1st round talent. He's a scheme fit

Matt Peart: Quick feet, good agility and a good edge blocker. Right tackle only. He's a scheme fit

Prince Tega Wanogho: Strong skill set but very raw player. Similar skill set to Andrew Thomas but he'll need time to develop. Scheme fit


Players who aren't scheme fits:


Mekhi Becton: Average IQ in pass protection. Gets away with poor hand usage and limited quickness off the ball bc of his length against College players. Not too sure he'll get away with that against quick edge rushers in the NFL. In the type of scheme Gase wants to run leaving him on an island would be an issue in my opinion. Not a scheme fit.


Lucas Niang: Questionable injury history. Did not display enough athleticism the past year after a hip injury and not testing at the combine concerns me. I'd leave him off my board till the 3rd round based on that.

Isaiah Wilson: Another road grader type tackle who struggles with the technical aspects of pass protection and consistency. Not a fit
 

Just looking at this list I think the Jets will be hoping one of Wills, Wirfs or Thomas will fall to them at 11. If none of those guys make it to 11 I can see them working hard to trade back in the 17-20 game for a guy like Josh Jones. If they can't make a trade I think they take a WR.  I think they'll then look to move up in the 2nd round to get either Cleveland or Austin Jackson. If that doesn't happen I think one of  Peart, Adams or Wanogho will be available in the 3rd. Most likely Adams bc of his injury concerns. I'd be ok with that bc without that he's a 1st round talent. What do you guys think?

[Beerfish]

Good work though the one I cross off is Trey Adams, he was about as unauthentic as you can get at the combine, coming of bad injuries.  He to me is hackenburgesque as far as being really good and promising two years ago.

I would like to see something similar done for Wr and RB.  Do we have any clue as to what is a 'schemes fit' for these positions fo Gase?

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Based on reports and on the lineman they signed in FA I think the front office values these traits:

-High IQ (Limited Penalties)
-Versatility (Multi position flexibility)
-Agility/Quickness (Wide offensive line splits)
-Better pass protector than run blocker

With those traits in mind here are my thoughts on a bunch of the Tackles in the draft that I believe are scheme fits:

Jedrick Wills: Hits all of the boxes above. Great scheme fit

Wasn't Wills being bashed for having a bunch of penalties?  I think one of the draft profiles specifically mentioned pre-snap/false start issues. 

I know we want smart, but I think smart and no penalties are two different traits.

[32EBoozer]

Good Topic. Done with all the "Top 4 OT" threads. Let's look to who is the best FIT for what we think Gase will be running.

 

But you also have EVERY OT as a scheme fit! So what's the point?

[nyjbuddy]

Prince also has a history of injuries which has been a concern.

[choon328]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wasn't Wills being bashed for having a bunch of penalties?  I think one of the draft profiles specifically mentioned pre-snap/false start issues. 

I know we want smart, but I think smart and no penalties are two different traits.

4 false starts,  6 total penalties last year. 

[choon328]

7 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Good Topic. Done with all the "Top 4 OT" threads. Let's look to who is the best FIT for what we think Gase will be running.

 

But you also have EVERY OT as a scheme fit! So what's the point?

I guess it shows the depth of the class. It's just my opinion.  

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

4 false starts,  6 total penalties last year. 

Seems like a lot.  Do you know how it compares to the others?  

FWIW, I am off Jones.  Not as a prospect, but the idea that his "scheme fit" trumps Thomas or the others.  He is quick, but I think your top 3 are all better athletes than him, particularly Wirfs.  I would be fine with getting him, but based on my limited knowledge, it should be well behind those guys.

[viffer]

Finally a thread that realizes JD is NOT going to just automatically take any of the top 4 tackles at #11. I would bet money he has, at most, 3 potential tackles at #11, more likely only 2. If one of those 2 or 3 are gone, it's WR at 11. People are crazy saying he is going to take a tackle no matter what. We have a head coach that admits he doesn't know how to use a potential future hall of fame running back. JD is not going to pick a run blocking tackle at #11 (or anywhere for that matter).

As Choon328 said above, look at the OL he picked up in FA, and apply that to the draft.

With a run on tackles in the top 10, I'm betting we get a WR at 11.

[nyjbuddy]

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

4 false starts,  6 total penalties last year. 

The frustration by Alabama fans with those penalties was that they were responsible for taking points off the board or in crucial situations.

Example, from the Iron Bowl game, which they lost: https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/12/looking-at-the-penalty-discipline-issue-that-cost-alabama-in-iron-bowl-loss.html

False start on Jedrick Wills, 3-15 (punt)

False start on Jedrick Wills on two-point try, extra point kicked to make it 45-40.

False start on Jedrick Wills, 3-4 to 3-9, Mac Jones converts 18-yard 4th-down run (missed kick drive)

From the Oklahoma game: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/12/furious-nick-saban-obliterates-his-headset-after-penalty-call

On a 3rd-and-1 play from the 15-yard line, offensive lineman Jedrick Wills was whistled for a false start – infuriating Saban on the sideline.

On the very next play, Tua Tagovailoa hit Irv Smith Jr. with a touchdown pass, but the play was wiped out by a dubious illegal formation penalty called on Wills.

[choon328]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Seems like a lot.  Do you know how it compares to the others?  

FWIW, I am off Jones.  Not as a prospect, but the idea that his "scheme fit" trumps Thomas or the others.  He is quick, but I think your top 3 are all better athletes than him, particularly Wirfs.  I would be fine with getting him, but based on my limited knowledge, it should be well behind those guys.

I think Jones is a better athlete than Thomas but Thomas is an all around better player.  I also don't think Jones makes it out of the 1st round

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, viffer said:

Finally a thread that realizes JD is NOT going to just automatically take any of the top 4 tackles at #11. I would bet money he has, at most, 3 potential tackles at #11, more likely only 2. If one of those 2 or 3 are gone, it's WR at 11. People are crazy saying he is going to take a tackle no matter what. We have a head coach that admits he doesn't know how to use a potential future hall of fame running back. JD is not going to pick a run blocking tackle at #11 (or anywhere for that matter).

As Choon328 said above, look at the OL he picked up in FA, and apply that to the draft.

With a run on tackles in the top 10, I'm betting we get a WR at 11.

And how do we know that the WRs at 11 are 'scheme fits'?

And when we pass on an OT at 11 how do we know that after a run on tackles between 11 and 48 that we are not standing there with our tails in the air or scrambling to trade up for an OT.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

The frustration by Alabama fans with those penalties was that they were responsible for taking points off the board or in crucial situations.

Example, from the Iron Bowl game, which they lost: https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/12/looking-at-the-penalty-discipline-issue-that-cost-alabama-in-iron-bowl-loss.html

False start on Jedrick Wills, 3-15 (punt)

False start on Jedrick Wills on two-point try, extra point kicked to make it 45-40.

False start on Jedrick Wills, 3-4 to 3-9, Mac Jones converts 18-yard 4th-down run (missed kick drive)

From the Oklahoma game: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/12/furious-nick-saban-obliterates-his-headset-after-penalty-call

On a 3rd-and-1 play from the 15-yard line, offensive lineman Jedrick Wills was whistled for a false start – infuriating Saban on the sideline.

On the very next play, Tua Tagovailoa hit Irv Smith Jr. with a touchdown pass, but the play was wiped out by a dubious illegal formation penalty called on Wills.

this is just a hunch but Joe Douglas probably doesn't want to make this penalty prone dude his first ever Jets pick as GM. 

The way JD emphasized penalties in the FA's he brought in was not an accident

that being said 50/50 Wills is off the board by 11 he's a very good prospect in other ways 

i could just see this driving JD crazy 

[choon328]

Just now, Beerfish said:

And how do we know that the WRs at 11 are 'scheme fits'?

And when we pass on an OT at 11 how do we know that after a run on tackles between 11 and 48 that we are not standing there with our tails in the air or scrambling to trade up for an OT.

I think Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs are all scheme fits in this system.

Your 2nd statement is why the Jets have to address the tackle position again in FA or via trade prior to the draft. 

Unless they think they can get Williams away from the Redskins after the draft using a conditional 2021 pick if they aren't able to bring a tackle in during the first few rounds of the draft. 

The one thing I know they can't do is to force a square peg into a round hole like Macc tried to do year after year. 

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I think Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs are all scheme fits in this system.

Your 2nd statement is why the Jets have to address the tackle position again in FA or via trade prior to the draft. 

Unless they think they can get Williams away from the Redskins after the draft using a conditional 2021 pick if they aren't able to bring a tackle in during the first few rounds of the draft. 

The one thing I know they can't do is to force a square peg into a round hole like Macc tried to do year after year. 

I think they honestly may feel more comfortable going into the season with what they have than we think.  OTOH, they seem to have a bunch of "if this, then that" deals in place.  For instance Perriman signing 15 minutes after Anderson went with the Panthers.  They may have something in place with Peters conditional on what happens in the draft.  I think the same is the reason why the edge market is waiting on Clowney.  After one domino falls things are going to happen with Griffen, Ngakoue, etc.   

FWIW, this is hope and conjecture.  Nothing factual to back it up.

[King P]

25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And how do we know that the WRs at 11 are 'scheme fits'?

All of them are scheme fits. Ruggs is a burner which Douglas wants, and Lamb is explosive after the catch. Gase places high value on YAC (he loves those bubble screens). Lamb and Jeudy both fit the bill 

[Beerfish]

19 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I think Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs are all scheme fits in this system.

Your 2nd statement is why the Jets have to address the tackle position again in FA or via trade prior to the draft. 

Unless they think they can get Williams away from the Redskins after the draft using a conditional 2021 pick if they aren't able to bring a tackle in during the first few rounds of the draft. 

The one thing I know they can't do is to force a square peg into a round hole like Macc tried to do year after year. 

He also drafted and signed FA to suit his coach, that is how we drafted Darron Lee 21st overall and signed Tru Johnson.

As for WR scheme fits, some of those guys you listed are similar in size to jarvis landry who apparently was not a scheme fit for gase despite catching tons of passes.

I'm not trying to be overly negative here but I do not trust the head coach and his offensive skills and I hate cutting the draft in half talent wise.

[Butterfield]

Ezra Cleveland.

[kdels62]

Trey Adams is far from a scheme fit. He lacks the athleticism needed. 

Wills is penalty prone.

Josh Jones is a lesser athlete than Andrew Thomas. 

The big 4 are all fits. They are all borderline elite athletes for OTs. 
 

A later guy I love for us is Jack Driscoll from Auburn. Good athlete, good pass sets.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

As for WR scheme fits, some of those guys you listed are similar in size to jarvis landry who apparently was not a scheme fit for gase despite catching tons of passes.

Why would you say that?  You literally say Landry caught tons of passes.  He was by that definition a scheme fit.  His issues with Landry were that he wanted a ton of money and whined and complained about all the short routes, looking to go deep and see even more targets.  Landry was asking for so much money that the Dolphins only got a 4th and a 7th for him despite all the production and everyone knowing he was on the block.  I totally get why Gase didn't want to spend $15M on a slower slot WR when he could get 75% of the production for 1/3 the price.  Spend the money elsewhere and improve the team.

I'm not a big Gase fan, and I don't see him as "right," but he certainly used Landry in a reasonable fashion.  Landry arguably had his best seasons in Miami.  For the reasons stated above, I would expect the team to look for a cheaper replacement and dump Crowder before next season.

[Dinamite]

56 minutes ago, viffer said:

Finally a thread that realizes JD is NOT going to just automatically take any of the top 4 tackles at #11. I would bet money he has, at most, 3 potential tackles at #11, more likely only 2. If one of those 2 or 3 are gone, it's WR at 11. People are crazy saying he is going to take a tackle no matter what. We have a head coach that admits he doesn't know how to use a potential future hall of fame running back. JD is not going to pick a run blocking tackle at #11 (or anywhere for that matter).

As Choon328 said above, look at the OL he picked up in FA, and apply that to the draft.

With a run on tackles in the top 10, I'm betting we get a WR at 11.

I agree he may not like all 4 tackles.  I do believe if the tackles he values are gone at 11, however, that he will trade down.  He will not pick WR unless he can't trade down and that represents the best value on the board.

[choon328]

33 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He also drafted and signed FA to suit his coach, that is how we drafted Darron Lee 21st overall and signed Tru Johnson.

As for WR scheme fits, some of those guys you listed are similar in size to jarvis landry who apparently was not a scheme fit for gase despite catching tons of passes.

I'm not trying to be overly negative here but I do not trust the head coach and his offensive skills and I hate cutting the draft in half talent wise.

Jarvis Landry was traded bc they didn't want to pay him.  It wasn't bc of scheme. 

[choon328]

17 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Trey Adams is far from a scheme fit. He lacks the athleticism needed. 

Wills is penalty prone.

Josh Jones is a lesser athlete than Andrew Thomas. 

The big 4 are all fits. They are all borderline elite athletes for OTs. 
 

A later guy I love for us is Jack Driscoll from Auburn. Good athlete, good pass sets.

Becton is not a fit. His 40 time doesn't match his play on the field. You're right about Adam's,  I forgot about his combine. Wills had 6 penalties and is a premium talent.  That's not going to stop anybody from drafting him. 

[RobR]

I love when people say Becton isn't a fit because of his poor passblocking. The guy gave up four sacks.....not last year.....but for his entire career. Over 2300 snaps and he gave up four sacks.

[kdels62]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Becton is not a fit. His 40 time doesn't match his play on the field. You're right about Adam's,  I forgot about his combine. Wills had 6 penalties and is a premium talent.  That's not going to stop anybody from drafting him. 

Becton looks large and mobile on tape. He needs to work on pass sets but he looks as active as you need. His work on the second level is beautiful stuff. Wills shouldn’t drop, he’s a great prospect.

[King P]

5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Becton is not a fit. His 40 time doesn't match his play on the field. You're right about Adam's,  I forgot about his combine. Wills had 6 penalties and is a premium talent.  That's not going to stop anybody from drafting him. 

40 time is irrelevant for a damn offensive lineman. 

Becton is definitely very athletic, especially for a man of his size. He's raw no doubt, but he's definitely a fit

[Beerfish]

28 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Trey Adams is far from a scheme fit. He lacks the athleticism needed. 

Wills is penalty prone.

Josh Jones is a lesser athlete than Andrew Thomas. 

The big 4 are all fits. They are all borderline elite athletes for OTs. 
 

A later guy I love for us is Jack Driscoll from Auburn. Good athlete, good pass sets.

Trouble with Driscoll is his wing span/arm length.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Scheme fit goes with agility and capabilities with zone blocking. Thomas isn't a top OT because of his pass blocking honestly as you listed. More so due to his gab/man blocking ability. He's a good player but would fair well with another offense. Browns and Bucs are a perfect fit if they're satisfied with his pass blocking ability.

Josh Jones, Austin Jackson, Prince Tega Wanogho fit the same mold. They fit the scheme however their run blocking leaves alot to be desire. Not the style I enjoy watching however it is what it is. It's less about mauling the defender back to the 2nd level and just stalemating them and taking the proper angles. To compensate they have they agility to keep up with the agile OLB but are prone to the bull rush due to lack of strength.

Tristan Wirfs could move according to the combine but it doesn't translate on tape. His pass blocking in the NFL could be what qualifies him as a guard. 

Mekhi Becton doesn't come from a pro style offense, however he seem good in one on one pass protection however gets killed in stunts. He can move but I guess he can trim so weight to further help him.

[Untouchable]

6 minutes ago, RobR said:

I love when people say Becton isn't a fit because of his poor passblocking. The guy gave up four sacks.....not last year.....but for his entire career. Over 2300 snaps and he gave up four sacks.

My big concern with Becton is whether he can keep his weight in check.

There was an interview a few months ago where he said he played last season around 350. Then he weighed in at 365 at the combine. In 2018 there were reports of him playing at over 380.

I’d like to see him get to 345-350 and stay there.

Kid has Ogden-esque upside and is an absolute freak for his size. But I think he easily has the biggest bust potential out of the consensus Top 4 OT’s.

Still, I’d be very happy if the Jets wound up with him.

[Greenbloodblitz]

Good job @choon328  I appreciate the in-depth look... obviously you did your homework. Good stuff.

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

My big concern with Becton is whether he can keep his weight in check.

There was an interview a few months ago where he said he played last season around 350. Then he weighed in at 365 at the combine. In 2018 there were reports of him playing at over 380.

I’d like to see him get to 345-350 and stay there.

Kid has Ogden-esque upside and is an absolute freak for his size. But I think he easily has the biggest bust potential out of the consensus Top 4 OT’s.

Still, I’d be very happy if the Jets wound up with him.

When he weighed in at the combine at 364lbs he had an astonishing 17% body fat. That alone shows that he takes his conditioning serious. He's just a giant human being. He also grew 2" from high school to now......how many people keep growing taller after HS? 

[kdels62]

22 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Trouble with Driscoll is his wing span/arm length.

Yep. If he had the strength and length he’d be second rounder with his tape. 

[Jethead]

Nice job but I think you dismiss Wilson too quickly. He's a big, strong, talented kid with a lot of upside. More athletic than you give him credit for.

If I can't have one of your big 3, I would give him a hard look.

WR at #11 (my favorite is Ruggs but that's a different topic) and Wilson in Round 2 or 3 would be a nice haul.

[RobR]

 

[Greenseed4]

@choon328

Matt Peart can develop into a legit LT.  His frame is ideal for the blindside. 

Isaiah Wilson is scheme diverse; he gets penciled into power schemes because he’s huge, but kid can move. By kid, I think he’s only 20 years old which is why he might be sneaking his way toward the first round. 

Niang is a great prospect also. 
 

So go ahead and add them to the list.