Joe Douglas should part with coveted draft capital to get Deshaun Watson

[FidelioJet]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. We could sign two Deshaun Watsons and still have cap space.

2. It is @FidelioJet’s assertion that the Jets roster will be the worst in the league for, at least, two more years, so good luck to Zack Wilson, whose biggest life setback to date was finding out Taylor Swift wasn’t a Republican

Zach Wilson will have an extra $30mm in cap space and an extra 3 first round picks.   I know you think $30mm in cap space and 3 first round picks isn't all that important.  I will humbly disagree.  That's the difference between having a great team an and a sh*tty one....That's 5 premium players that Watson won't have.

[MykePM]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

On the other hand there is clear precedent for Watson setting a "franchise ablaze".

Watson didn't set the Texans ablaze.  They set themselves ablaze.  He's merely yelling "fire" and leaving the building as quickly as possible.

[British Jet]

22 minutes ago, MykePM said:

Watson didn't set the Texans ablaze.  They set themselves ablaze.  He's merely yelling "fire" and leaving the building as quickly as possible.

As opposed to happily signing a huge contract and honouring it. Weird, right?

Personally, I love demanding that I can walk away from huge commitments whenever I feel like it. 

#sports

[chad2coles]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not fortune telling it's entirely predictable 

Who are these two free agents that are going to turn the worst offensive roster in the NFL into a top 5 offense?

Trade for Watson, sign Robinson and thuney, install lafleurs offense. It would only need to be top 10 to be the best offense since ‘98 unfortunately. 

[bla bla bla]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach Wilson will have an extra $30mm in cap space and an extra 3 first round picks.   I know you think $30mm in cap space and 3 first round picks isn't all that important.  I will humbly disagree.  That's the difference between having a great team an and a sh*tty one....That's 5 premium players that Watson won't have.

Well statistically 2 over priced FAs and 50% shots at 3 rookies (QB being closer to 30% success rate)

[MykePM]

5 hours ago, British Jet said:

As opposed to happily signing a huge contract and honouring it. Weird, right?

Personally, I love demanding that I can walk away from huge commitments whenever I feel like it. 

#sports

A lot of things have happened (or not) since Watson signed that contract.

And there will be a whole parade of cases this week of teams walking away from huge contracts that they happily signed with players.  This is not about honour or loyalty.

#business

[doitny]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The very same people who say the stuff about rounds 2-7 also say forget all 1st rounders because they are all not sure things and a high bust rate. Which the hell is it?

High picks have a better chance of panning out.

High picks have a better chance of providing more than 'starters'

Who are the best young players on the NY Jets right now?  Where were they picked?

 

your right. number 1 picks are the best shot of getting starters. even if only 30% make the team.

but you dont get a shot at a FQB very often. why does every team that has one does great? GB had 2 of them back to back and they win over 10 games almost every year. and there picking at the end of the draft every year. NE did it for 19 years. in 2019 they won 12 games with TB12. last year they won 7. 

i know, Watson only won 4 games with a bad roster right? everyone had a bad year. Rodgers went 6-10 twice. they bounce back. retool. 

this Roster isnt as bad as you think. 

everyone has injuries, but we lost a whole Position to it. when Berrios and the 2 Smiths are your 3 starting WRs you got a serious problem. they started how many games? and then one by one we get the starters back. and the OL had 3-4 new starters with no training camp to gel. they looked much better in the 2nd half of the year. 

we could have won 6-7 games last year. add Watson and a few FAs we could win 10. 

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Neither one of these are happening, pasty.

Guys who are injury prone in college always avoid injuries in the NFL just ask Dee Milliner and Dewayne Robertson

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach Wilson will have an extra $30mm in cap space and an extra 3 first round picks.   I know you think $30mm in cap space and 3 first round picks isn't all that important.  I will humbly disagree.  That's the difference between having a great team an and a sh*tty one....That's 5 premium players that Watson won't have.

Yeah but Watson is actually good and Wilson is an egg who sucked facing Coastal Carolina

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Yeah but Watson is actually good and Wilson is an egg who sucked facing Coastal Carolina

There in lies the rub....

If I was virtually 100% convinced that Wilson was a bum I would probably want the Jets to give away the house rather than draft another bust.

But, I like Wilson a lot and think his talent is undeniable, I do worry about his frame a bit but otherwise I think he's going to be a star..

Wilson, 3 first round picks and $85mm in cap space >>>>>>>>> Watson for 3 years.

To me, that's a no brainer - the decision isn't even close. 

[MykePM]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Wilson, 3 first round picks and $85mm in cap space >>>>>>>>> Watson for 3 years.

You’re hilarious with this “Watson for 3 years” take.  Even if you believe that his current stance with the Texans is unjustified and that it shows he’ll forever be a flight risk, the “get out of jail free” card he’s using now is a one-time only deal.  Watson and his handlers are smart enough to know that if he shoots his way out of a second team, 3 years after doing the same thing and waiving his no-trade clause to go to said team, it will start seriously affecting his brand.  

And even if somehow this unlikely scenario does play out as you’re imagining, the terms you should be using for your Wilson to Watson comparison would be “Watson for 3 years and 3 first round picks in 2024”, because he wouldn’t be leaving here without the Jets getting serious compensation back, just as the Texans will.
 

[Savage69]

9 hours ago, MykePM said:

A lot of things have happened (or not) since Watson signed that contract.

And there will be a whole parade of cases this week of teams walking away from huge contracts that they happily signed with players.  This is not about honour or loyalty.

#business

Not quite true teams have to honor what they guaranteed..

[MykePM]

22 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Not quite true teams have to honor what they guaranteed..

If we’re going there, then I’ll counter by saying that the contract doesn’t guarantee that Watson will show up for work; it merely defines the financial terms that will apply if he does (and the CBA defines the penalties if he doesn’t).  Andrew Luck had a contract and he hasn’t shown up for a couple of years now.

[chad2coles]

17 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach Wilson will have an extra $30mm in cap space and an extra 3 first round picks.   I know you think $30mm in cap space and 3 first round picks isn't all that important.  I will humbly disagree.  That's the difference between having a great team an and a sh*tty one....That's 5 premium players that Watson won't have.

There isn’t a $30m difference bw the cap hit of the #2 overall pick and Watson.

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Yeah but Watson is actually good and Wilson is an egg who sucked facing Coastal Carolina

Holy hell he is not injury prone just get off it already.

[JohnnyLV]

53 minutes ago, chad2coles said:

There isn’t a $30m difference bw the cap hit of the #2 overall pick and Watson.

Umm in Year 2 of Watson's contract there absolutely is

[T0mShane]

18 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach Wilson will have an extra $30mm in cap space and an extra 3 first round picks.   I know you think $30mm in cap space and 3 first round picks isn't all that important.  I will humbly disagree.  That's the difference between having a great team an and a sh*tty one....That's 5 premium players that Watson won't have.

Not one of those five premium players will matter if Wilson isn’t an elite QB. 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, chad2coles said:

There isn’t a $30m difference bw the cap hit of the #2 overall pick and Watson.

Watson't not playing out his contract as is.  It's naive to think that'll he'll will.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, MykePM said:

You’re hilarious with this “Watson for 3 years” take.  Even if you believe that his current stance with the Texans is unjustified and that it shows he’ll forever be a flight risk, the “get out of jail free” card he’s using now is a one-time only deal.  Watson and his handlers are smart enough to know that if he shoots his way out of a second team, 3 years after doing the same thing and waiving his no-trade clause to go to said team, it will start seriously affecting his brand.  

And even if somehow this unlikely scenario does play out as you’re imagining, the terms you should be using for your Wilson to Watson comparison would be “Watson for 3 years and 3 first round picks in 2024”, because he wouldn’t be leaving here without the Jets getting serious compensation back, just as the Texans will.
 

What does that even mean?

Who's going to stop in from forcing his way off the team? The league? His agent?

He can do whatever he wants - if he's willing to burn down a team because a billion dollar business doesn't want to let a 25 year kid decide who to hire as a head coach - what's he going to do when he's being booed off the field week after week because the Jets have no resources to build a team around him?

 

[FidelioJet]

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not one of those five premium players will matter if Wilson isn’t an elite QB. 

I've now said this to @JiF and @Philc1

I agree.  The three of you are fully convinced Wilson will bust- I get it...you're welcome to that opinion, I won't argue with you guys about that anymore. - but if I shared that opinion I likely would also be able to convince myself that a team with the worst talent in the league can win with a QB that just won 4 games - without any real resources to better the team..

Now, I happen to believe Wilson is going to be an excellent NFL QB and drafting him with the amount of cap space and picks we'll have - will far outweigh the Watson trade. 

Put talent around Wilson and he's going to excel.  I have no doubt about that.

 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Put talent around Wilson and he's going to excel.  I have no doubt about that.

You also believe that Joe Douglas sucks and will, no doubt, blame Joe Douglas if Zack Wilson is bad. 

[FidelioJet]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You also believe that Joe Douglas sucks and will, no doubt, blame Joe Douglas if Zack Wilson is bad. 

I don't believe JD sucks.  Just not true.  Other than committing to tearing down Mac's team (which took courage and he's done it well) I don't think he's done anything to deserve a whole lot of praise yet.  This is a huge off-season for him.

If he supports Zach with resources and he's bad I will not blame JD at all...Now if he goes out and drafts him at 2 and then proceeds to put the majority of the teams premium resources into defense (ala Mac) then yes - I will absolutely put some blame on him.

 

[MykePM]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What does that even mean?

Who's going to stop in from forcing his way off the team? The league? His agent?

He can do whatever he wants - if he's willing to burn down a team because a billion dollar business doesn't want to let a 25 year kid decide who to hire as a head coach - what's he going to do when he's being booed off the field week after week because the Jets have no resources to build a team around him?

 

What “it meant” was that it would severely damage Watson’s career if he were to force his way off a second team.  So your assumption that he would attempt that is a big leap.  Apply the “he did it once, he’ll do it again” logic to the risky decisions in your own (or anyone’s) past and see if it always holds up.

Your description of why Watson wants to leave the Texans is an extreme oversimplification.  In the time between when Watson signed his extension and now, the organization has degenerated from a playoff team to a laughingstock on and off the field, and has disrespected Watson in more ways than you mention (example - Easterby reportedly harassing Watson’s mother via text).  Even at our worst, the Jets have never been this dysfunctional.

[FidelioJet]

16 minutes ago, MykePM said:

What “it meant” was that it would severely damage Watson’s career if he were to force his way off a second team.  So your assumption that he would attempt that is a big leap.  Apply the “he did it once, he’ll do it again” logic to the risky decisions in your own (or anyone’s) past and see if it always holds up.

Your description of why Watson wants to leave the Texans is an extreme oversimplification.  In the time between when Watson signed his extension and now, the organization has degenerated from a playoff team to a laughingstock on and off the field, and has disrespected Watson in more ways than you mention (example - Easterby reportedly harassing Watson’s mother via text).  Even at our worst, the Jets have never been this dysfunctional.

Would forcing his way off the Jets make him worse at Football?  I'm not sure how it would damage his career - based on this situation I suspect he fancies himself a Lebron James type - he will have NO issue going from team to team..

And please the Jets were more dysfunctional 3 years ago.....Teams constantly go through ups and downs - their QB's stand by the organizations.  He wanted to have personnel and coach control - and the owner didn't want to put those choices in the hands of a 25 year old.  I wouldn't either.

If you guys all got your way they're about to become a very good team. They're going to have 6 first round picks in the next two years, 3 second round picks with a young franchise QB on a rookie deal.  They will be in a MUCH better situation than the Jets.

[Savage69]

4 hours ago, MykePM said:

If we’re going there, then I’ll counter by saying that the contract doesn’t guarantee that Watson will show up for work; it merely defines the financial terms that will apply if he does (and the CBA defines the penalties if he doesn’t).  Andrew Luck had a contract and he hasn’t shown up for a couple of years now.

He don't have to show up and they can fine him and not pay him if he choses that route..

[clayton163v]

On 3/5/2021 at 7:54 PM, T0mShane said:

You people play way too much Madden.

I have never played Madden, engaged in fantasy football or bet on fanduel or draftkings.  I am a long time Jet fan who would like see us behave more like the Steelers and less like Ralph Kramden.

[chad2coles]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Umm in Year 2 of Watson's contract there absolutely is

Watson will never have a cap hit $30m higher than the #2 pick of the 2020 draft, but his production will probably be worth $40m more than Zach Wilson’s. 
 

it’s such a garbage argument that Watson’s cap hit will prevent the rangers from building a contender AND that Watson will demand a new deal bc he’s not paid enough. 

[MykePM]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Would forcing his way off the Jets make him worse at Football?  I'm not sure how it would damage his career - based on this situation I suspect he fancies himself a Lebron James type - he will have NO issue going from team to team..

And please the Jets were more dysfunctional 3 years ago.....Teams constantly go through ups and downs - their QB's stand by the organizations.  He wanted to have personnel and coach control - and the owner didn't want to put those choices in the hands of a 25 year old.  I wouldn't either.

If you guys all got your way they're about to become a very good team. They're going to have 6 first round picks in the next two years, 3 second round picks with a young franchise QB on a rookie deal.  They will be in a MUCH better situation than the Jets.

Shooting his way off the Jets would damage Watson's career for the same reason you devalue him now - two occurrences make a pattern, and your suspicion that he's a "Lebron James type" would start to be the common perception - which it isn't now.

Watson did not want personnel and coach control.  He reportedly wanted input regarding the coaching search, and was supposedly told that his voice would be heard.  Instead, neither of his two recommendations (Saleh and Bienemy) were even in the first round of cursory Zoom interviews, and Bienemy was only added later, after the Texans realized that their slight toward Watson was going to have repercussions.  I can't believe we're still debating these events months later.

The Jets have been extremely dysfunctional at times - even recent times.  But remind me when they reached a level on the craziness scale similar to giving a team chaplain a high ranking position with football decision making power, and then that glorified televangelist started harassing the family of their star player via text.

[chad2coles]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Would forcing his way off the Jets make him worse at Football?  I'm not sure how it would damage his career - based on this situation I suspect he fancies himself a Lebron James type - he will have NO issue going from team to team..

And please the Jets were more dysfunctional 3 years ago.....Teams constantly go through ups and downs - their QB's stand by the organizations.  He wanted to have personnel and coach control - and the owner didn't want to put those choices in the hands of a 25 year old.  I wouldn't either.

If you guys all got your way they're about to become a very good team. They're going to have 6 first round picks in the next two years, 3 second round picks with a young franchise QB on a rookie deal.  They will be in a MUCH better situation than the Jets.

Your argument is so weak you have to create 2 ridiculous scenarios where the Jets give up all their 1st and 2nd round picks over the next 2 years AND Watson, who has never had any issues before this, forcing his way off of 2 teams in 3 years.

[chad2coles]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I've now said this to @JiF and @Philc1

I agree.  The three of you are fully convinced Wilson will bust- I get it...you're welcome to that opinion, I won't argue with you guys about that anymore. - but if I shared that opinion I likely would also be able to convince myself that a team with the worst talent in the league can win with a QB that just won 4 games - without any real resources to better the team..

Now, I happen to believe Wilson is going to be an excellent NFL QB and drafting him with the amount of cap space and picks we'll have - will far outweigh the Watson trade. 

Put talent around Wilson and he's going to excel.  I have no doubt about that.

 

No one is saying the Jets should trade for Watson and not surround him with talent. Your takes are all trash. You argue that the difference bw Watson and Wilson’s cap hits will allow the Jets to surround Wilson, who has never even played against a top 10 college team, with more talent, but you don’t acknowledge that the Jets can use their cap space to surround Watson, a top 3 qb in the nfl, with talent. 

[Dunnie]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Not one of those five premium players will matter if Wilson isn’t an elite QB. 

Disagree ... How did the Texans fare last year with Solo Watson ?

[Dunnie]

32 minutes ago, chad2coles said:

No one is saying the Jets should trade for Watson and not surround him with talent. Your takes are all trash. You argue that the difference bw Watson and Wilson’s cap hits will allow the Jets to surround Wilson, who has never even played against a top 10 college team, with more talent, but you don’t acknowledge that the Jets can use their cap space to surround Watson, a top 3 qb in the nfl, with talent. 

No they are really not .. trading for Watson most likey will severely deplete our draft captical and salaray cap capabilities. - oh and hes not top3 ..top 3 guys never go 4-12 ... ever. If you are referring to his padded stats ..yes ... i acknowledge his top 3 ness

Edited March 8, 2021 by Dunnie

[chad2coles]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

No they are really not .. trading for Watson most likey will severely deplete our draft captical and salaray cap capabilities. - oh and hes not top3 ..top 3 guys never go 4-12 ... ever. If you are referring to his padded stats ..yes ... i acknowledge his top 3 ness

Peyton Manning and Brett Favre had similar records while in their primes.  No QB could have done more than Watson did to help the Texans win last year.  If the Jets are able to spread the picks they trade to Houston over the next 3 drafts, they'll have plenty picks and cap room to build a contender around Watson.  

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Disagree ... How did the Texans fare last year with Solo Watson ?

How did the crazy talented Buccaneers do without Brady?  

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

How did the crazy talented Buccaneers do without Brady?  

Touche .. Encore