All Page 1 Zach Wilson Threads: MERGED

[legler82]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

File this away with the Robby Anderson is too small and will never be a #1 Wr because he'll be broken in half by some team and etc, etc.

 

Is Robbie a #1?

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, thats the take that anyone with an ounce of smarts should derive from this thread.  

Face it, youre the one who cant seem to get a grip on amount of people throughout football who dont have your guy but Wilson as the #2 QB in this draft. 

 

 

 

[Biggs]

I still think we should trade out draft Pitts and Mills in the first and sign Bridgewater to play this year when he's cut by Carolina.   Mills has the ability to be the best QB in this draft class if he's coached up.  

A lot of people think Mills is going on day 2.  I don't believe it.  If he lands on the Pats or Miami were going to be in the basement for a very long time. 

[Tranquilo]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I still think we should trade out draft Pitts and Mills in the first and sign Bridgewater to play this year when he's cut by Carolina.   Mills has the ability to be the best QB in this draft class if he's coached up.  

A lot of people think Mills is going on day 2.  I don't believe it.  If he lands on the Pats or Miami were going to be in the basement for a very long time. 

Trade out to what spot gets us Pitts?

[The Crusher]

37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The last time the Jets selected a qb in Rd 1 Josh Rosen was considered to be the most pro ready 

How is it that the kid who went to byu, played cupcakes is more pro ready that the dude who played with broken ribs on national TV? 

Also looking at mocks tevin Jenkins is going top 15. They might be able to upgrade guard but they are not going to get an instant upgrade at tackle 

The answer sir is polygamy, 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The answer sir is polygamy, 

[QB1]

18 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I still think we should trade out draft Pitts and Mills in the first and sign Bridgewater to play this year when he's cut by Carolina.   Mills has the ability to be the best QB in this draft class if he's coached up.  

A lot of people think Mills is going on day 2.  I don't believe it.  If he lands on the Pats or Miami were going to be in the basement for a very long time. 

Hi Mac

[FidelioJet]

24 minutes ago, derp said:

After going back and forth with me thus far do you really think I’m suggesting they draft a worse prospect at two? Do you seriously, genuinely believe that’s the conclusion I’ve come to? Is there nothing else you can think of that I might find to be a more prudent decision?

Regarding Fields and Wilson, I’m not sure what the next step of the NFL ready argument is. I believe Fields will have a better rookie year and we’ll hear supporting cast rationale. Fields is a freak. He’ll get cheap yards in the run game and make some big plays while kept in bubble wrap in the passing game. TBD how that plays out for him long term, traits guys often regress terribly, but he can produce based on traits alone as a rookie. We see it all the time.

Your last paragraph is all well and good. Doesn’t guarantee those guys have an impact, much less that the Jets actually do it. It’s nice to want them to follow the plan you think is prudent, but none of that is guaranteed at the time they take Wilson. There’s a non trivial chance they go defense at 23. How will you feel then?

I'm just at the point where it's clear ZW has all of the tools necessary to become an elite NFL QB.  It's also clear he's the preference of JD and many others.  

You want to say you like Fields better - I say good for you - but enough with this claiming that ZW isn't worthy of the #2 pick.  I'm just over it.  He's not a bad pick at #2 - at 2 you want a guy that can become a top 5 player- he's certainly that.  Jet fans should be excited to have him.  If you're not, I'm sorry - I imagine it won't be as fun. 

As for the last paragraph.  I agree.  I don't know what JD will do.  I really don't know what type of GM he is.  JD has been adept at tearing the team down and acquiring assets (I mean that in a good way) - but I have no idea if he's capable of building a team.  

I'll say this much.  If he takes ZW (or any QB at 2) and then takes defense with any of the next three picks - to me - he's clearly not the guy and will likely be fired in two years.

[QB1]

22 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Is Robbie a #1?

135 targets = #1 receiver 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

So watch some film last night on the kid. Noticed he’s very good at looking off his first receiver and going to the second if they are wider open. I’m guessing being in the Mormon system of polygyny since childhood going to the second option when wide open and the other is covered becomes natural. Kids more impressive more I look. 

Watch him freeze the safety too.   So far you're at:

1) Throws a pretty ball

2) Good accuracy

3) See's the field well and can go through progressions

Keep going, soon you'll be excited about this kids potential - far more than many here that are spewing nonsense without actually watching his tape.

Seriously, he's an exciting prospect to say the least.  Will he pan out? I don't know - but damn, if he does he can be special.

[legler82]

20 minutes ago, derp said:

I don’t think survives is the right word. It depends entirely on situation, but I have an easier time picturing a Fields development path than most guys in this draft. It’s impossible to tell if the reaction to pressure and trying to do too much I’ll be successfully coached out. And I think pretty much all guys succeed on traits in college relative to the mental side of the game that makes guys succeed in the NFL and so trying to poke at who’s “pro ready” is generally a fruitless exercise. 

Good points.  With regards to reacting to pressure I leave you the following:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1349476574190587913?s=20
 

Is Justin Herbert worth the risk in the first round of the 2020 NFL Draft?

[The Crusher]

22 minutes ago, bitonti said:

@FidelioJet asked me to kindly look at Zach Wilson more objectively. So was he night I’ve watched some film and drawing my own conclusions. Last nights epiphany?

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

So watch some film last night on the kid. Noticed he’s very good at looking off his first receiver and going to the second if they are wider open. I’m guessing being in the Mormon system of polygyny since childhood going to the second option when wide open and the other is covered becomes natural. Kids more impressive more I look. 

 

[Biggs]

33 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Trade out to what spot gets us Pitts?

That's the problem.  We might be able to draft Wilson and based on what happens at 3 make a deal with Atlanta or Detroit to pick Pitts and do a trade at that point.  It won't be a megga haul but we will get additional picks this year and next and Mills might be the best QB in this class not named Lawrence.  

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Watch him freeze the safety too.   So far you're at:

1) Throws a pretty ball

2) Good accuracy

3) See's the field well and can go through progressions

Keep going, soon you'll be excited about this kids potential - far more than many here that are spewing nonsense without actually watching his tape.

Seriously, he's an exciting prospect to say the least.  Will he pan out? I don't know - but damn, if he does he can be special.

Thank you Fido, I’m trying. 

[Biggs]

25 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Hi Mac

Mac would never do that that's why Buffalo has Allen and we drafted Sam.  

[QB1]

Just now, Biggs said:

Mac would never do that that's why Buffalo has Allen and we drafted Sam.  

He passed on Mahomes and Watson for Hackenberg. That is exactly what passing on Wilson for the Stanford kid is. 

[legler82]

38 minutes ago, QB1 said:

135 targets = #1 receiver 

I live in Charlotte.  Moore had more yards on far less targets.  Robbie is #1 I guess in the same way he was a #1.  Didn’t he lead all WRs in targets with us too?  Yeah he is based on targets but it’s not ideal.  If Wilson as a QB is the equivalent of Robbie the #1 WR, I think I’m going to be sick.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Thank you Fido, I’m trying. 

Look at the anticipation throws - how often the ball is out of his hands before the receivers makes his cut/move.  

[QB1]

1 minute ago, legler82 said:

I live in Charlotte.  Moore had more yards on far less targets.  Robbie is #1 I guess in the same way he was a #1.  Didn’t he lead all WRs in targets with us too?  Yeah he is based on targets but it’s not ideal.  If Wilson as a QB is the equivalent of Robbie the #1 WR, I think I’m going to be sick. 

We are talking about his durability. He got the volume of a #1 receiver and was fine. That was the only point made here...

[Biggs]

Just now, QB1 said:

He passed on Mahomes and Watson for Hackenberg. That is exactly what passing on Wilson for the Stanford kid is. 

Wrong.  Hackenberg was a 3 year starter who routinely missed easy throws and check downs.  Hackenberg was a statue in the pocket. Hackenberg was rattled by the pass rush.  All of it was on his college tape.

Mills is a big fluid athletic, fast, smart guy who has a beautiful natural throwing motion and was the most highly recruited QB out of his HS class.  

Hackenberg showed up as a bust on his 3 years of College tape.

 

[legler82]

5 minutes ago, QB1 said:

We are talking about his durability. He got the volume of a #1 receiver and was fine. That was the only point made here...

Oh OK; it’s still not ideal.  I still hold my breath everytime he catches a pass over the middle.  Living in Charlotte and Robbie coming down, they’ve become like my 2nd team.  Even more so now that Sam is joining the team.

[QB1]

26 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Wrong.  Hackenberg was a 3 year starter who routinely missed easy throws and check downs.  Hackenberg was a statue in the pocket. Hackenberg was rattled by the pass rush.  All of it was on his college tape.

Mills is a big fluid athletic, fast, smart guy who has a beautiful natural throwing motion and was the most highly recruited QB out of his HS class.  

Hackenberg showed up as a bust on his 3 years of College tape.

 

Bro, Hackenberg was a 5 star recruit and the #1 “pocket QB” in the country by rivals. He was also a projected #1 pick after his freshman year. Mills has 13 college starts with barely a 2-1 TD/INT ratio... 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, QB1 said:

Hi Mac

Mac, Tanny and Rex all love Zach Wilson 

[Philc1]

44 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Watch him freeze the safety too.   So far you're at:

1) Throws a pretty ball

2) Good accuracy

3) See's the field well and can go through progressions

Keep going, soon you'll be excited about this kids potential - far more than many here that are spewing nonsense without actually watching his tape.

Seriously, he's an exciting prospect to say the least.  Will he pan out? I don't know - but damn, if he does he can be special.

Well if he split the North Alabama Safety corps just wow

[QB1]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Mac, Tanny and Rex all love Zach Wilson 

They hated Darnold too 

[derp]

57 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm just at the point where it's clear ZW has all of the tools necessary to become an elite NFL QB.  It's also clear he's the preference of JD and many others.  

You want to say you like Fields better - I say good for you - but enough with this claiming that ZW isn't worthy of the #2 pick.  I'm just over it.  He's not a bad pick at #2 - at 2 you want a guy that can become a top 5 player- he's certainly that.  Jet fans should be excited to have him.  If you're not, I'm sorry - I imagine it won't be as fun. 

As for the last paragraph.  I agree.  I don't know what JD will do.  I really don't know what type of GM he is.  JD has been adept at tearing the team down and acquiring assets (I mean that in a good way) - but I have no idea if he's capable of building a team.  

I'll say this much.  If he takes ZW (or any QB at 2) and then takes defense with any of the next three picks - to me - he's clearly not the guy and will likely be fired in two years.

And I don’t know how you can make that first statement based on the line he played behind and the competition he played last year. 

Furthermore the NFL draft history is littered with guys who had tools and failed. Bad evaluation and/or bad supporting cast. So forgive me for finding a complex evaluation heading to a poor supporting cast to be too much of a gamble.

This is a coin flip at best. I like Douglas a lot outside of this decision - I’d feel the same way if he takes Fields - and it’ll be a shame if it comes up the wrong way and they have to move on from him.

I’m not a negative person, FWIW. I’ll enjoy his highlight tape, hope he works out, convince myself it made sense, and root for him to succeed. Won’t be the first time the Jets made me do this. I’m just tired of the QB, HC, GM merry go round and think they had a better chance at stability if they waited. Maybe Douglas and Saleh have more job security than I think and they’re not betting their jobs.

[Philc1]

Just now, QB1 said:

They hated Darnold too 

Mac hated Darnold?

[derp]

48 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Good points.  With regards to reacting to pressure I leave you the following:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1349476574190587913?s=20
 

Is Justin Herbert worth the risk in the first round of the 2020 NFL Draft?

And I don’t think it’s unlikely Fields is the same. I think Herbert and Allen are reasonable comparisons. I’m not sure he’ll work out the same way though, won’t know until the bullets start flying. That’s what I was getting at.

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Bro, Hackenberg was a 5 star recruit and the #1 “pocket QB” in the country by rivals. He was also a projected #1 pick after his freshman year. Mills has 13 college starts with barely a 2-1 TD/INT ratio... 

Bro, Hackenberg got worse ever year he played in College.  He was a dysfunctional statue who couldn't hit the side of a barn.  

Granted we don't know much about Mills but we did know exactly who Hackenberg was when he left college.  He was on a downward spiral.  

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Penn State					693	1235	56.1	8457	6.8	6.5	48	31	121.4
2013	Penn State	Big Ten	FR	QB	12	231	392	58.9	2955	7.5	7.4	20	10	134.0
*2014	Penn State	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	270	484	55.8	2977	6.2	5.3	12	15	109.4
*2015	Penn State	Big Ten	JR	QB	13	192	359	53.5	2525	7.0	7.2	16	6	123.9

 

[QB1]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Bro, Hackenberg got worse ever year he played in College.  He was a dysfunctional statue who couldn't hit the side of a barn.  

Granted we don't know much about Mills but we did know exactly who Hackenberg was when he left college.  He was on a downward spiral.  

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Penn State					693	1235	56.1	8457	6.8	6.5	48	31	121.4
2013	Penn State	Big Ten	FR	QB	12	231	392	58.9	2955	7.5	7.4	20	10	134.0
*2014	Penn State	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	270	484	55.8	2977	6.2	5.3	12	15	109.4
*2015	Penn State	Big Ten	JR	QB	13	192	359	53.5	2525	7.0	7.2	16	6	123.9

 

At equivalent points in their careers Hackenberg was a more accomplished high school and college QB than Mills. You are projecting Mills based on nothing (again, using the same methodology hack was QB1 after 13 starts)

[Tranquilo]

14 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Well if he split the North Alabama Safety corps just wow

So basically, what you're saying is that you have no idea how to judge talent from small schools? 

[bitonti]

49 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

@FidelioJet asked me to kindly look at Zach Wilson more objectively. So was he night I’ve watched some film and drawing my own conclusions. Last nights epiphany?

 

The dude can have brother wives sister husbands idk as long as he balls out and wins games 

They play TB12 next year btw. This Zach kapono party is all well and good in the abstract. If he survives 17 games uninjured it would be a shock 

[bitonti]

51 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I live in Charlotte.  Moore had more yards on far less targets.  Robbie is #1 I guess in the same way he was a #1.  Didn’t he lead all WRs in targets with us too?  Yeah he is based on targets but it’s not ideal.  If Wilson as a QB is the equivalent of Robbie the #1 WR, I think I’m going to be sick.

Robby was 19th in yards last year 1096 playing with teddy and whoever 

More than Corey Davis. 

about crowder and perriman combined 

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

So basically, what you're saying is that you have no idea how to judge talent from small schools? 

No I’m just wondering how sh tting on bottom feeder program DBs who can’t break a 5.5 40 and have no ball skills but being average at best facing Coastal Carolina is the NFL success recipe

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Robby was 19th in yards last year 1096 playing with teddy and whoever 

More than Corey Davis. 

about crowder and perriman combined 

JD dropped the ball badly not resigning Robby but Davis is still a good signing