Do what you want with this information

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yep, he had a great opening drive in the colts game. but then got hurt (again). But what happened in that next game? 

He's going to fail to receive anything like the same grace that Zach Wilson is about to receive when Buffalo throttles him?

When White faced Buffalo and played poorly, he simply sucked.  But when Zach Wilson faces Buffalo and plays poorly, it'll be because the Bills defense are the '85 Bears and no one should be expecting a rookie QB to compete against that in his 13th start.

[rtnelson]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Guys like Braxton Berrios are happy to not be selling discount furniture for a living.

That's the point mate.  He's our #1 option at WR right now.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yep, he had a great opening drive in the colts game. but then got hurt (again). But what happened in that next game? 

He got hurt stepping up in the pocket, staring in the face of a 6’7” dominating pass rushing DT and dropping a dime TD into the waiting hands of Elijah Moore, who had referred to Mike White as “God” on Instagram earlier in the week.

[slimjasi]

Again, from a statistically significant point of view? Not really. It’s only 4 games. Good luck finding a statistically significant difference in points scored between Zach’s last 4 games and the 4 non-Wilson games. 4 games isn’t nearly enough for what you are trying to argue. 

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Did you miss the part above where Zach's most recent 4 game stretch was isolated, and he still averaged less ppg (19.5) than the other QB's did (22.0) in their 4.5 game stretch?

Any way you play with the numbers, the offense has been better with two 3rd string-caliber QB's and a semi-retired, 36 year old Flacco than it has been with Wilson.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not to quibble, but you included the Berrios kick return in this equation

I wasn't the one running the numbers in this instance.  A gross oversight on my part.  Even then, Wilson failed to produce an offensive performance, while supposedly playing at his best, like our 3rd string-caliber QB's did.  

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You waiting for Zach Wilson to light up the Bills:

You making predictions

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Again, from a statistically significant point of view? Not really. It’s only 4 games. Good luck finding a statistically significant difference in points scored between Zach’s last 4 games and the 4 non-Wilson games. 4 games isn’t nearly enough for what you are trying to argue. 

All Wilson defenders do is try to argue small sample sizes.  They take only Wilson's best performances and extrapolate them.  Meanwhile when Shane or I mention that Wilson is the # 32 ranked QB, somehow THAT is meaningless because its "only been 11 games".  Cool.  

I was trying to throw Wilson a bone for you here.  This was Wilson playing at his best, after all.  I was removing the outliers for you, @Uncle Nicco style.  

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's going to fail to receive anything like the same grace that Zach Wilson is about to get when Buffalo throttles him?

He'll fail to receive the same grace that Mike White gets from that game.  People that point to Mike White playing better refuse to even mention that game when talking about how "fun it was" to watch Mike White play.  I'm sure they were loving that game so much they kept drinking so they can't remember it.

[slimjasi]

Just now, T0mShane said:

He got hurt stepping up in the pocket, staring in the face of a 6’7” dominating pass rushing DT and dropping a dime TD into the waiting hands of Elijah Moore, who had referred to Mike White as “God” on Instagram earlier in the week.

And? 

I get that you guys are in love with Mike White (actually, i contend you are in love with the IDEA of Mike White), but waxing poetic about him isn’t going to help you better answer the question you have now ignored twice  

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

That's the point mate.  He's our #1 option at WR right now.

Zach Wilson has been almost exclusively throwing it to Berrios since day one. No wonder his other targets opted for IR. 

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/20/new-york-jets-zach-wilson-braxton-berrios-slippery/

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

He'll fail to receive the same grace that Mike White gets from that game.  People that point to Mike White playing better refuse to even mention that game when talking about how "fun it was" to watch Mike White play.  I'm sure they were loving that game so much they kept drinking so they can't remember it.

The whole point of the Mike White pedestal is that the Jets have had maybe a handful of games (at most) at QB on that level since 1998.  It's a sad reflection of Jets QBing in this millennium more than anything else.  It's Wilson supporters who take all that super seriously and get offended for some reason.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

These threads are always fun.

But I mean, we all know Wilson will be back next year, no? 

This isn't last year where there was a genuine decision to be made.

For the record, I was a pureblooded Darnoldista all the way up until I jumped on the Bayside Tiger bandwagon - looking back we should've just taken Ja'Marr Chase and traded for Minshew... goddamnit. So yea, my credibility is non-existent. 

We're just in this weird spot where people are drawing lines in the sand about Wilson when he's both a rookie on a bad team and has been thoroughly unimpressive. There's a legitimate built in excuse, but terrible decisions by the kid and some ugly, ugly throws into the dirt as well.

Also - doesn't it suck that there's seemingly nobody worth the #4 or #6 pick? I mean really, WTF are we gonna do? Maybe we just overdraft a WR and Linderbaum and call it a day 1?

[slimjasi]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

All Wilson supporters do is try to argue small sample sizes.  They take only Wilson's best performances and extrapolate them.  Meanwhile when Shane or I mention that Wilson is the # 32 ranked QB, somehow THAT is meaningless because its "only 11 games".  Cool.  

I was trying to throw Wilson a bone for you here.  This was Wilson playing at his best, after all.  I was removing the outliers for you, @Uncle Nicco style.  

Unfortunately, appropriate sample sizes are a requisite for a meaningful comparison of averages. That is one reason (although not the only one) why overreacting to a fraction of a rookie season is ill-advised. 

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Guys like Braxton Berrios are happy to not be selling discount furniture for a living.

Wrong too

[HawkeyeJet]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

All Wilson defenders do is try to argue small sample sizes.  They take only Wilson's best performances and extrapolate them. 

I mean, that’s exactly what anyone that talks about Mike White does. So is it an issue or not?

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Zach Wilson has been almost exclusively throwing it to Berrios since day one. No wonder his other targets opted for IR. 

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/20/new-york-jets-zach-wilson-braxton-berrios-slippery/

Not much farther up in this thread people were claiming he just locked on to Davis at the start of the year.

Now you're saying Davis and Moore chose to go to IR because Zach almost exclusively throws it to Berrios.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

All Wilson defenders do is try to argue small sample sizes.  They take only Wilson's best performances and extrapolate them.  Meanwhile when Shane or I mention that Wilson is the # 32 ranked QB, somehow THAT is meaningless because its "only been 11 games".  Cool.  

I was trying to throw Wilson a bone for you here.  This was Wilson playing at his best, after all.  I was removing the outliers for you, @Uncle Nicco style.  

And youre extrapolating Whites one and a quarter of good QB play?  

 

 

[HawkeyeJet]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The whole point of the Mike White pedestal is that the Jets haven't had a game at QB on that level since 1998.  It's a sad reflection of Jets QBing in this millennium more than anything else.  It's Wilson supporters who take all that super seriously and get offended for some reason.  

I remember that Glenn Foley game well.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, rtnelson said:

Not much farther up in this thread people were claiming he just locked on to Davis at the start of the year.

Now you're saying Davis and Moore chose to go to IR because Zach almost exclusively throws it to Berrios.

Silliness on top of silliness 

[rtnelson]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The whole point of the Mike White pedestal is that the Jets have had maybe a handful of games (at most) at QB on that level since 1998.  It's a sad reflection of Jets QBing in this millennium more than anything else.  It's Wilson supporters who take all that super seriously and get offended for some reason.  

You literally prop up a flash in the pan as reason to have no faith in Wilson, and we take it super seriously?

[slimjasi]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

I remember that Glenn Foley game well.

And Browning Nagle. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Unfortunately, appropriate sample sizes are a requisite for a meaningful comparison of averages. That is one reason (although not the only one) why overreacting to a fraction of a rookie season is ill-advised. 

We only have the data points we have available, and my argument has always been that rookie year performance is important and perhaps even predictive.  While it's almost impossible to run a study suggesting whether that's the case, the odds for a QB succeeding seem to only drop precipitously for a QB who fails his rookie season.  They don't stay about the same.  Wilson's chances of succeeding in this league were a lot better on draft day than they are now.

If you want to dismiss a QB's entire rookie season as a wash, then there is equally low value to talking about these incremental improvements we're supposedly seeing over the course of the season, no?  Why not just pack it in until Week 1 of the 2022 campaign, when the games REALLY start to count?

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I mean, that’s exactly what anyone that talks about Mike White does. So is it an issue or not?

He actually said Jets fans are saying this while he hangs on 1 & 1/4 quarter of good stats

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

And youre extrapolating Whites one and a quarter of good QB play?  

I never extrapolated it.  And at least when I evaluate White's play, I use ALL the data, including the Bills game.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I remember that Glenn Foley game well.

Actually it was the Vinny "helmet game" over Seattle.  Though looking back, his performances against the Pats and Panthers were equally impressive or perhaps moreso.

Either way, '98 represented one of the last times we could be proud of the QB play here.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

And? 

I get that you guys are in love with Mike White (actually, i contend you are in love with the IDEA of Mike White), but waxing poetic about him isn’t going to help you better answer the question you have now ignored twice  

Mike White threw four picks against the Bills. Three of them came in the late third and fourth quarters after the Jets were down by three TDs already. That happens sometimes when you put the game in the hands of your QB. He still threw for 251 yards (a mark Wilson has eclipsed twice in eleven starts).

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

and my argument has always been that rookie year performance is important and perhaps even predictive.

And this is where you are completely wrong

Did bad rookie QB play predict Elway, Montana, Unitas, Mannings etc, etc?

Most rookie QBs struggle or arent even allowed on the field.  The Marinos, Cams, Burrows and Herberts are the outliers, not the other way around

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

Not much farther up in this thread people were claiming he just locked on to Davis at the start of the year.

Now you're saying Davis and Moore chose to go to IR because Zach almost exclusively throws it to Berrios.

Why would I be held responsible for other peoples’ posts?

[tfine]

Because when his guys caught the ball, their names were Davis, Moore, Crowder, Carter, and Barrios and they all got YAC.
When Zach's guys catch the ball they were already in the process of being tackled because they don't gain separation.
When Tom Brady loses his top guys people start talking like they just lost their chance at a superbowl.
When the Jets lose their top guys, some fans want a rookie QB to have better stats than guys with a combined 30 years of experience on him that had those guys.

LMAO it’s pretty comical. Look at all the elite QBs all around the league and stud WRs they have….and Zack is expected to perform at the highest level…kinda feel bad for the kid.

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I never extrapolated it.  And at least when I evaluate White's play, I use ALL the data, including the Bills game.

You've compared them when its good for you.  Your whole Mike White argument is based on 1 & 1/4 of game play.  Nothing more.  No one would point to the Bills game 

And yes, when you predict he's a better option off on a little more than a game, you've extrapolated it

[HawkeyeJet]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Actually it was the Vinny "helmet game" over Seattle.  

Foley had one huge game too in the late 90s. I’m almost positive it was 98.  I thought we struck gold.  

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I mean, that’s exactly what anyone that talks about Mike White does. So is it an issue or not?

Mike White got benched for Joe Flacco, so we only have the small sample size.

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, IndianaJet said:

I’m old enough to remember Sam Darnold showing “promising” improvement in his last couple of games in 2018. 

Yes, and if Wilson follows the same trajectory,  he will rightfully be skewered.  We just have to hope Wilson reaches a high ceiling with more experience and good coaching. 

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Why would I be held responsible for other peoples’ posts?

Okay, so you aren't surprised Davis and Moore "opted" for IR because Zach was targeting Berrios too much?

I was just pointing out that other people were saying he just stared at Davis, I wasn't saying you were, only that other people disagreed with your Berrios as his exclusive target.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I mean, that’s exactly what anyone that talks about Mike White does. So is it an issue or not?

If Wilson had any "signature game" we could point to, I'd take the criticism of White a lot more seriously.  People pointed to the Darnold Packer game (and his Rose Bowl performance) for years after they occurred to suggest why Darnold can still make it in this league, and he still ended up sucking.  Of course we're going to do the same with White, when even I admit he probably sucks. 

High water marks are pretty important, no?  Maybe Wilson will have one of those that comes close to White or Darnold some day.