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[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, JTJet said:

This is where I just cant understand, and bringing it back around to Zach. What was supposed to be our...

1/2 combo...

Davis - Massive disappointment, mega drop city. Missing 8 games by season end (5 when Zach starts)

Mims - Massive disappointment, zero effort, drop city. Missed 5 games (3 when Zach starts)

3/4...

Crowder - Middle of the road season. Missed 4 games. (All when Zach starts)

Moore -  Gained steam as season went on. Missing 6 games by season end (All when Zach starts) 

5/6

Cole - Brought nothing to the table. Missed 2 games. (Both when Zach starts)

Berrios - Filled in amazingly well. (Only reciever to play every game, and happens to have great rapport with Zach) 

7

Jeff Smith - Not worth mentioning.

...

...

I truly dont understand how an objective mind can say this group brought anything at all to the table this season?

Zachs entire wide receiving corps missed a total of 20 games of playing time when he was under center. 

Most of these guys werent exactly having their best games when Zach was out either. 

Corey Davis - Best game with Zach (TEN)

Denzel Mims - Best game with Zach (CAR)

Jamison Crowder - Best game with Mike (CIN)

Elijah Moore - Best game with Joe (MIA)

Keelan Cole - Best game with Zach (TEN)

Braxton Berrios - Best game with Zach (NE1)

...

...

Cmon man, you and I both know they brought very very little this year. 

Then why did this offense average 22.2 ppg with any other QB under center if the receivers are so bad.    

[JTJet]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then why did this offense average 22.2 ppg with any other QB under center if the receivers are so bad.    

That's an extremely weighted average. 

1 fluke game Cincinnati (34)

1 all garbage time game Indy (30)

2 other games (17 each). 

Details matter. Those second two games are more in line with how the offense was normally operating (16.18 with Zach). 

My point being, you simply would never be able to know what Zach could have done, if he had a healthy WR corps in the games he played. 

The 4 games Zach missed, were the healthiest the wideouts had been all year. The unit only missed a cumulative total of 4 games of playing time between 7 players. 

11 games with Zach - 20 games cumulative missed. 

4 games without Zach - 4 games cumulative missed. 

That's a GIGANTIC difference. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, JTJet said:

That's an extremely weighted average. 

1 fluke game Cincinnati (34)

1 all garbage time game Indy (30)

2 other games (17 each). 

Details matter. Those second two games are more in line with how the offense was normally operating (16.18 with Zach). 

My point being, you simply would never be able to know what Zach could have done, if he had a healthy WR corps in the games he played. 

The 4 games Zach missed, were the healthiest the wideouts had been all year. The unit only missed a cumulative total of 4 games of playing time between 7 players. 

11 games with Zach - 20 games cumulative missed. 

4 games without Zach - 4 games cumulative missed. 

That's a GIGANTIC difference. 

pretty sure he would have struggled to get over the 200 yards mark like all his other games.  
 

Over a decade of the Weppinz being more important than the QB on JN.  I’m very much over it.  

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

pretty sure he would have struggled to get over the 200 yards mark like all his other games.  
 

Over a decade of the Weppinz being more important than the QB on JN.  I’m very much over it.  

I'm not saying the weapons are more important, but to dismiss them as if they are some minor detail isnt the way either. 

Context needs to be accounted for. 

[Spoot-Face]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I dunno, maybe some of the same guys White, Josh Johnson and Flacco threw 11 TDs to over the course of 4.5 games?  

7 of those 11 TDs were all caught by Davis, Moore, Griffin, and Crowder (1, 4, 1, and 1, respectively). All were inactive against Jax and look to be again tomorrow.

Berrios, Kroft and Johnson account for the other 4 TDs, and only the former two had any playing time against Jax. Not sure where Ty was, as he wasn't on the stat sheet, nor the inactive list. Maybe he was on covid list? But he's shown on active roster now. Saleh may just not be playing him after those brutal drops, which is ironic since he accounts for half those 4 Tds.

Let's not even mention that all of JJ's TDs came against Indy in garbage time down 45-10.

[rtnelson]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

The supporting cast is not the reason Zach sucked for most of this year. Elijah Moore looked below average to start the year because of Zach.

Zach is starting to play better but his poor play this year has been on him.

Cutting back on turnovers has been a really good development. But he still has a ways to go. I personally did not think he was such a big project. I still believe he'll be a FQB. But I’d be lying to myself if I thought he would struggle this much.

We can pull-up preseason prediction and I’m sure even the worse predictions weren’t as bad as reality.

I think Zach wasn't prepared for the absolutely horrid job the OL was doing the first few games.  It would rattle anyone to not be able to trust your OL.

Moore was coming off a long injury in which he didn't have a preseason, and even so Zach gave him a beauty of a deep ball in the Carolina game that he dropped.

Yes, Zach played poorly for a variety of reasons especially early in the season.  The offense as a whole didn't really find it's groove until Mike White came in and LaFleur went to the booth.  Credit where credit is due, Mike White had a very solid 5 quarters of football.

By the time Wilson returned, Davis was hobbled, Carter was on IR, he had Moore for just 1 game, and his knee was giving out mid play.  But he was forced to start because the other QB's had Covid.  He won the game.

Then Davis, Moore, Crowder, Kroft, Carter have been in and out along with some musical chairs on the OL and he hasn't really had a chance to settle down inside of a consistent offense.  He hasn't looked terrible, but I think if you start with the Texans game and consider that game 1, he is improving steadily even without a consistent team around him.

It just truly baffles me how people can say we're just a QB away like Zach is somehow the only reason the offense as it stands at this second is a mid tier offense with Mike White at the helm.

Tom Brady could not play in this offense and do well with the players we've put on the field the last 3 weeks.  That's a fact.

If at the start of next year, Davis, Moore, Carter, Crowder, draft pick/FA WR, draft pick/FA TE, and a solid OL are all on the field and we get what we are seeing right now as output... then I'm game to say the offense is being held back by Zach.

The problem with this is that it's easy to sit back and say "Stats Bad, Zach Bad, Mike White stats good, Zach bad because offense bad."  When clearly there is a lot more that goes in to why an offense succeeds or fails than just what the QB does.

Was/Is Mike White more prepared than Zach to start the year?  Sure.  I think that's fair to assume.

Does it mean we shouldn't be developing Zach and instead put Mike White in?  For the same reason @Jetsfan80 wants to see him pass 60 times a game win or lose, no... we shouldn't be playing Mike White.

So if we shouldn't be playing White, and Zach is still improving even as his offense is dropping like flies around him... what's the issue?  It's not good enough yet?  Well... yeah, it's not.  So let's keep playing and see if he keeps improving.

Why this is so divisive isn't that some people think Zach probably won't make it.  It's that the opinion that Zach won't make it is shared in tiny little quips that leave out everything that actually matters and is boiled down to... "Zach stats bad, worst QB in football, Mike White did better" and leaves everything out.

Why people continue to argue round and round and round with the same points made on both sides is beyond me.

[Spoot-Face]

6 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Yeah they perform an act called "docking" while coming up with new Zach Wilson putdowns.

[Patriot Killa]

4 hours ago, ZachEY said:

It will not be.  For the people currently excited by Zach Wilson, the season is over.  These last two weeks fall under “no help” and “too hard.”  Jacksonville was his Magnum Opus.

Absolutely not true. These last two are just as much of a isolated measurement in progress than the rest of his starts. Nobody is saying they are satisfied, we like the direction.

[PS17]

Wow so we’re really just gonna re-do the 600 post “Every Throw vs Jax” thread again

[Bugg]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach beats the Jaguars by dinking and dunking:  “He did all he needed to do.”

Zach loses to the Bucs 42-6, finishing with 187 yards, 0 TDs and 1 INT:  “It was a blowout, what did you expect him to do?”

It would be against defensive mastermind Todd Bowles, so, again, not fair to judge. Bowles, as we know, is brilliant enough to have been picked up by the team Tom Brady choose to sign with becaue Bruce Arians likes him and bland defense that keeps the other team ....something. He is now supposedly front&center for the Vegas Raiders, which means the Davis son with the free bowl of soup haircut didn't bother to watch a second of game tape when Bowles was head coach here. But he was stoic and does not have any obnoxious social media history. Gruden only won a Super Bowl with a nonsuperior QB Brad Johnson stuck with Keyshawn Johnson running his mouth. 

Objectively, what ever Gruden's  failings, going from Jon Gruden to Todd Bowles defines regression. 

Looking at various stats; Bus are up there with sacks, but really may be a function of being ahead in games and teams flinging the ball around late. Really they're an okay defense with an all time QB on offense.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/rushing/2021/reg/all

 

[DetroitRed]

2 hours ago, PS17 said:

Wow so we’re really just gonna re-do the 600 post “Every Throw vs Jax” thread again

Its crazy.  Especially when you really dont know if you are right or wrong.  Let it play out.  Its gets to the point, it’s more about being right 

[JTJet]

4 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Its gets to the point, it’s more about being right 

RIP entire JetNation forum. 

[JustInFudge]

This is encouraging to see.  I've asked for them to break him down and build him back up slowly based on his traits and while we're not seeing this great arm stretch the field, I think they're treating him like he's at square one and I'm great with that based on how he started the season.

However this stat is over a time period in which the Jets scored zero TD's in a game and it was one of the worst QB performances I've ever seen and then shut out for an entire half and blowing a 7 point lead and playing honestly one of the worst Football teams I've ever seen take a professional Football field.  So context does matter.

Jets fans have become so scared of turnovers, rightfully so based on what we've had over the years but the reality is, you can live with turnovers, as long as your QB can make up for it with explosive plays and putting up points.  Unfortunately, the Jets do not do those on offense, except when they're playing the worst team in Football and have a rare, not repeatable, occurrence type play.

So, while this is a nice stat, I'd rather be encouraged by stats based on putting the ball in the endzone, completion percentage, 3rd down conversions and you know, doing things that score points.

 

[bostonmajet]

13 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Thank you for this. We cant afford to keep dropping back in draft position.  

You are welcome, but I didn't jinx it  

Enjoy the game all - whatever that means for each of you...

[Peace Frog]

3 hours ago, JTJet said:

RIP entire JetNation forum. 

Being “right” to these dudes is much more important than having a great team to root for. 

Fortunately there are millions of Jet fans out there looking towards a brighter future and not just these few dudes. 

[JTJet]

13 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Being “right” to these dudes is much more important than having a great team to root for. 

Fortunately there are millions of Jet fans out there looking towards a brighter future and not just these few dudes. 

It's an internet forum, it's going to be like that. Generally it's easy to see that the people that are extreme anti Zach cant come at most of the arguments objectively. 

I'm not even neccesarily "pro Zach" but I know enough to step back and take everything into context. 

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, JTJet said:

It's an internet forum, it's going to be like that. Generally it's easy to see that the people that are extreme anti Zach cant come at most of the arguments objectively. 

I'm not even neccesarily "pro Zach" but I know enough to step back and take everything into context. 

The pretzel logic hypocrisy-“no hero ball!! manage the game!!! we spent the 2nd pick on a game manager?!? throw it around the field 35+ times!!! To who?!? QBs MAKE weaponz!!! worst QB ever!!”

Times 1000. Every thread. 

[Spoot-Face]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:14 PM, T0mShane said:

This thread is gonna be necro gold in two weeks.

How about today?

[Spoot-Face]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:25 PM, ZachEY said:

It will not be.  For the people currently excited by Zach Wilson, the season is over.  These last two weeks fall under “no help” and “too hard.”  Jacksonville was his Magnum Opus.

Hahahaha

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

Hahahaha

Not much I can say here.  Played much better than any of us expected.

[Spoot-Face]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:29 PM, ZachEY said:

Sam Darnold almost beat Green Bay

Ngl, this kinda scares me

[Spoot-Face]

16 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Not much I can say here.  Played much better than any of us expected.

Yes, me inluded. Hoping for a repeat next week, but I've learned not to expect that sort of thing. 

[Jetsfan80]

34 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Ngl, this kinda scares me

The Bucs D we faced today is much better than the GB defense Darnold faced that day, IIRC.  

[slimjasi]

Not throwing interceptions is something I could get used to. Go for 5 straight games. 

[Spoot-Face]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Bucs D we faced today is much better than the GB defense Darnold faced that day, IIRC.  

[Jet Nut]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:14 PM, T0mShane said:

This thread is gonna be necro gold in two weeks.

Only not the way you thought it would

[Jet Nut]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:02 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

pretty sure he would have struggled to get over the 200 yards mark like all his other games.  Over a decade of the Weppinz being more important than the QB on JN.  I’m very much over it.  

Kind of erratic in your analysis here.  Weaponz effect games or not.

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Only not the way you thought it would

By Wednesday, you bros are gonna convince yourselves that Wilson went 24/37 for 352 yards and four TDs. 

[nyjunc]

And he's doing it without much talent around him.  This might be the most exciting time for our future in all the years I've been watching this team.  We finally have a QB

[The Crusher]

8 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Not much I can say here.  Played much better than any of us expected.

I’d go with,” bout F-ing time!” 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

By Wednesday, you bros are gonna convince yourselves that Wilson went 24/37 for 352 yards and four TDs. 

And the other night you and 80 were high diving yourselves for posting numbers Jets would be happy with, somewhere around 50 comp %, for 185 yds, 0 TDs and 1 INT.  Today its overinflated fans expectations?

I wanted to see improvement and without a doubt I saw improvement.  He played like a competent FQB 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And the other night you and 80 were high diving yourselves for posting numbers Jets would be happy with, somewhere around 50 comp %, for 185 yds, 0 TDs and 1 INT.  Today its overinflated fans expectations?

I wanted to see improvement and without a doubt I saw improvement.  He played like a competent FQB 

I think we all agree that we saw improvement yesterday. I don’t know why you guys insist on demanding mea culpas every time Wilson shows a pulse, though. It’s unhealthy.

[Larz]

He’s improving. That’s all I need to see. 
 

very encouraging 

[FidelioJet]

54 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

And he's doing it without much talent around him.  This might be the most exciting time for our future in all the years I've been watching this team.  We finally have a QB

Under the circumstances is was an impressive performance...

And if it wasn't a fluke (it's been three of the past four weeks) and this is the type of game (meaning accuracy, patience, With that said, a long way to go still, but it should be very encouraging to every Jet fan.

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think we all agree that we saw improvement yesterday. I don’t know why you guys insist on demanding mea culpas every time Wilson shows a pulse, though. It’s unhealthy.

Whos asking for a Mia culpa, I havent said a word about 80 and your endless rant the night before the game.  

Though I do think it interesting that after posting 75-100 times how Zach sucks and will play like shlt against the Bucs 80 was on "vacation" after he showed a lot of improvement and was the reason the Jets were even in, nevermind leading for all of 30 seconds in the game as opposed to his expert prediction.