RAS of Every Joe Douglass Draft Pick To Date

[Barry McCockinner]

It could be coincidence that good players tend to have high RAS but it appears that JD does put a decent weight on this metric when making selections. It's obviously not the be all, end all for him but looks to be very much part of the puzzle. He has made several picks where players have lower scores or no RAS available at all. One glaring omission is his hand picked QB, Zach Wilson, who didn't have a RAS available. 

I will keep this updated as future drafts are completed.

-- 2020 --

Mekhi Becton R1.11

Denzel Mims R2.59

Ashtyn Davis R3.68

n/a
Jabari Zuniga R3.79

La'Mical Perine R4.120

n/a
James Morgan R4.125

Cameron Clark R4.129

Bryce Hall R5.158

n/a

Braden Mann R6.191

-- 2021 --
Zach Wilson R1.2

n/a

Alijah Vera-Tucker R1.14

Elijah Moore R2.34

Michael Carter R4.107

Jamien Sherwood R5.146

Michael Carter R5.154

Jason Pinnock R5.175

Hamsah Nasirildeen R6.186

Brandin Echols R6.200

Jonathan Marshall R6.207

[UntouchableCrew]

I don't know if he cares about "RAS" but he clearly wants athletic players who profile with certain traits, as I'd imagine most GMs do.

The only guys on here who really "don't have it" are guys they were trying to flip positions or guys who for some reason they thought they could overcome certain deficiencies (i.e. height on some of the DBs.)

[HighPitch]

Not much to take from that. Ras scores stupid.

[HawkeyeJet]

I had no idea Pinnock was that level of athlete.

[Stark]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It could be coincidence that good players tend to have high RAS but it appears that JD does put a decent weight on this metric when making selections. It's obviously not the be all, end all for him but looks to be very much part of the puzzle. He has made several picks where players have lower scores or no RAS available at all. One glaring omission is his hand picked QB, Zach Wilson, who didn't have a RAS available. 

I will keep this updated as future drafts are completed.

-- 2020 --

Mekhi Becton R1.11

Denzel Mims R2.59

Ashtyn Davis R3.68

n/a
Jabari Zuniga R3.79

La'Mical Perine R4.120

n/a
James Morgan R4.125

Cameron Clark R4.129

Bryce Hall R5.158

n/a

Braden Mann R6.191

-- 2021 --
Zach Wilson R1.2

n/a

Alijah Vera-Tucker R1.14

Elijah Moore R2.34

Michael Carter R4.107

Jamien Sherwood R5.146

Michael Carter R5.154

Jason Pinnock R5.175

Hamsah Nasirildeen R6.186

Brandin Echols R6.200

Jonathan Marshall R6.207

an average RAS of 7.63

the interesting thing, and I didn't know that the M Carters were both as low as they are. they both played well. I probably would have guessed them in the mid 7 to mid 8 range based on the "on field play"

[Barry McCockinner]

3 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Not much to take from that. Ras scores stupid.

I think it's stupid when people feel the need to repeat the last word of an acronym when using it in a sentence. This is called redundant acronym syndrome.

RAS syndrome (where "RAS" stands for "redundant acronym syndrome", making the phrase "RAS syndrome" homological) is the use of one or more of the words that make up an acronym (or other initialism) in conjunction with the abbreviated form. This means, in effect, repeating one or more words from the acronym.

For example: RAS scores are stupid.

You know what else grinds my gears? When people say 9AM in the morning or 9PM at night. Why do you feel the need to say it twice?

@Boozer32

 

 

[Stark]

3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I had no idea Pinnock was that level of athlete.

these sure are interesting in retrospect and having a season to gauge their ability on field. the Carter bro's surprise me by the ras

All RAS No BRAKE

 

[Stark]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

I think it's stupid when people feel the need to repeat the last word of an acronym when using it in a sentence. This is called RAS syndrome.

RAS syndrome (where "RAS" stands for "redundant acronym syndrome", making the phrase "RAS syndrome" homological) is the use of one or more of the words that make up an acronym (or other initialism) in conjunction with the abbreviated form. This means, in effect, repeating one or more words from the acronym.

For example: RAS scores are stupid.

You know what else grinds my gears? When people say 9AM in the morning or 9PM at night. Why do you feel the need to say it twice?

@Boozer32

 

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

It's one of the biggest changes for this front office versus last one. I think RAS is just a correlation to whatever system they use, but they showed on One Jets Drive after last year's draft that they have an analytics guy that they check in on when discussing prospects to see where they land.

[derp]

Lowest RAS he’s taken in the first three rounds - Elijah Moore, 8.68. 

Consensus first round WR’s with a RAS over 8 - Chris Olave, 8.66. London doesn’t have a RAS like Wilson and Ashtyn Davis.

Possible focusing on good size adjusted athletes early is a trend that will be broken. Possible that the interest in trading for a WR is related to not liking the WR class. Possible London is another no RAS guy or tests surprisingly well. 

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Not much to take from that. Ras scores stupid.

That's my take as well.  These scores do not in any way correlate with NFL success.  

Being athletic is important.  Being good at playing football is far more important.

[Asymmetrical]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's my take as well.  These scores do not in any way correlate with NFL success.  

Being athletic is important.  Being good at playing football is far more important.

 

 Absolutely true but there are very few if any high level NFL players that aren't above average athletes compared to their peers. It's important to take into consideration. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

36 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't know if he cares about "RAS" but he clearly wants athletic players who profile with certain traits, as I'd imagine most GMs do.

The only guys on here who really "don't have it" are guys they were trying to flip positions or guys who for some reason they thought they could overcome certain deficiencies (i.e. height on some of the DBs.)

So basically you know if he care about RAS but he clear wants played with a high RAS? Did I read that wrong? Lol

[freestater]

Frederick Douglass learning his name's spelling confused with the guy who drafted Mekhi Becton and Denzel Mims.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

29 minutes ago, derp said:

Lowest RAS he’s taken in the first three rounds - Elijah Moore, 8.68. 

Consensus first round WR’s with a RAS over 8 - Chris Olave, 8.66. London doesn’t have a RAS like Wilson and Ashtyn Davis.

Possible focusing on good size adjusted athletes early is a trend that will be broken. Possible that the interest in trading for a WR is related to not liking the WR class. Possible London is another no RAS guy or tests surprisingly well. 

I think his WR trade targets suggests that he's looking for a stretch the field guy (like you've mentioned previously) and their interest in Olave could suggest they're looking at that even though he doesn't meet the size-aspect that they'd prefer.

Seems like someone like Alec Pierce, Christian Watson, or Tyquan Thornton are other candidates to fit the field stretching role that have size to boot. Have to teach all of them to be a receiver though.

[Jetsfan80]

50 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Not much to take from that. Ras scores stupid.

  

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's my take as well.  These scores do not in any way correlate with NFL success.  

Being athletic is important.  Being good at playing football is far more important.

 

Know who would agree with you on this?  Mike Maccagnan.  

And Warfish, you're wrong about the correlation, particularly when it comes to EDGE rushers.  Measurables are highly correlated with success as a pass rusher.

[Bungaman]

I think it's important to sort the RAS info. The Carters score low because of height and weight (IIRC.) Scoring low on one of those quadrants isn't a cause for concern unless, for example, a OL/DL scores low on height and weight, or a WR is slow in all speed measurements, etc. Just one piece of info among all the others to assess whether a guy will make it or not. 

[Jetsfan80]

RAS SCORES DON'T MATTER GUYZZZZ

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO RAS PAY ATTENTION TO WHETHER THEY CAN PLAY FOOTBALL

 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

RAS SCORES DON'T MATTER GUYZZZZ

 

 

Odd you left out this one:

And this one:

No one said to ignore them.  All I say is that they're not the be all end all, and clearly that's true. 

RAS score does not correlate to NFL success.

[UntouchableCrew]

24 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

So basically you know if he care about RAS but he clear wants played with a high RAS? Did I read that wrong? Lol

I don't know anything, I'm speculating -- if you read my post that's pretty clear.

My point is that I don't know if "Relative Athletic Score" is something  NFL front offices give a sh*t about, in terms of these specific scores/metrics -- I don't know if NFL front office personnel are referencing "can you believe the RAS on that guy?"

But clearly some of the underlying scores on there are significant and if you notice a trend clearly Douglas favors great athletes with lots of upside.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

59 minutes ago, Stark said:

an average RAS of 7.63

the interesting thing, and I didn't know that the M Carters were both as low as they are. they both played well. I probably would have guessed them in the mid 7 to mid 8 range based on the "on field play"

The Carters are just low because they're short -- and you could argue RB and slot corner are the positions in the NFL where height matters the least.

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I had no idea Pinnock was that level of athlete.

I did if only because a long, super athletic corner who falls to the late rounds because of lack of polish/productivity is kind of what that Seahawks cover 3 defense made their name on and there were people hyping that at the time of the pick.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I had no idea Pinnock was that level of athlete.

He was the corner I liked most last year.  I was totally going to pick him for the Seahawks in last year's mock before I had to pull out

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

RAS score does not correlate to NFL success.

It 100 % DOES correlate to success for EDGE rushers, the Gholston miss notwithstanding.  

Without freakish athleticism, EDGE rushers have a VERY difficult time finding success at the pro level.  It tends to be a "pre-requisite", of sorts.  It doesn't guarantee success, but it opens the door for success.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't know anything, I'm speculating -- if you read my post that's pretty clear.

My point is that I don't know if "Relative Athletic Score" is something  NFL front offices give a sh*t about, in terms of these specific scores/metrics -- I don't know if NFL front office personnel are referencing "can you believe the RAS on that guy?"

But clearly some of the underlying scores on there are significant and if you notice a trend clearly Douglas favors great athletes with lots of upside.

 

It's like QB rating.  It is just a way to aggregate a bunch of traits you are looking to see.  I found Jeff Smith the first time I saw it on some pro day tracker in the Detroit Free Press.  He's had a pretty solid career so far for a non-priority undrafted FA. 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It could be coincidence that good players tend to have high RAS but it appears that JD does put a decent weight on this metric when making selections. It's obviously not the be all, end all for him but looks to be very much part of the puzzle. He has made several picks where players have lower scores or no RAS available at all. One glaring omission is his hand picked QB, Zach Wilson, who didn't have a RAS available. 

I will keep this updated as future drafts are completed.

-- 2020 --

Mekhi Becton R1.11

Denzel Mims R2.59

Ashtyn Davis R3.68

n/a
Jabari Zuniga R3.79

La'Mical Perine R4.120

n/a
James Morgan R4.125

Cameron Clark R4.129

Bryce Hall R5.158

n/a

Braden Mann R6.191

-- 2021 --
Zach Wilson R1.2

n/a

Alijah Vera-Tucker R1.14

Elijah Moore R2.34

Michael Carter R4.107

Jamien Sherwood R5.146

Michael Carter R5.154

Jason Pinnock R5.175

Hamsah Nasirildeen R6.186

Brandin Echols R6.200

Jonathan Marshall R6.207

Had Zach done all the drills he would have had a RAS of 9 probably. He is WAY WAY more athletic than people realize. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Odd you left out this one:

And this one:

No one said to ignore them.  All I say is that they're not the be all end all, and clearly that's true. 

RAS score does not correlate to NFL success.

RAS doesn't guarantee success does not equal RAS does not correlate to NFL success. I think you're wrong in the latter statement, although I think what you're actually saying is the first part.

[#27TheDominator]

One interesting thing about the above is how Sherwood and Nasrildeen scored out.  Sherwood in particular sucked, but if you rated his speed at LB instead of S he'd probably be somewhat better than very poor.  Likewise, Nasrildeen would probably lost some of his "elite" size compared to LBs. 

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It 100 % DOES correlate to success for EDGE rushers, the Gholston miss notwithstanding.  

So....not 100% then? 

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Without freakish athleticism, EDGE rushers have a VERY difficult time finding success at the pro level.  It tends to be a "pre-requisite", of sorts.  It doesn't guarantee success, but it opens the door for success.

/shrug

We're not making the picks, so what we think doesn't truly matter.  If you think RAS is the most vital thing for evaluating prospects, great.  I don't.  Plenty of high RAS score guys (like the two WE picked shown above) scored great on RAS and were total and complete poop at the NFL level.  

As with all things, it's never just one thing that's worthy of consideration, success is a stew of a variety of factors, athleticism being an important one, but not the only important one by any stretch, and perhaps not THE most important one for most positions.

Ultimately, happy to agree to disagree on this one.  I doubt either of us will change our minds today.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So....not 100% then?

Correlation doesn't mean it happens 100 % of the time, and I wasn't suggesting it does by saying "100 %".  I was saying it's 100 % factual to suggest that a high RAS score is indeed highly correlated with pass rusher success.

Ice cream sales, for instance, are highly correlated with shark attacks.  It doesn't mean every time a kid buys an ice cream cone there's also going to be a shark attack that day.  It just means shark attacks are far more likely to occur in the summer than any other time of year.  Much the same way, high athleticism makes it far more likely a pass rusher will have success, and far more unlikely that a pass rusher will not if he lacks elite athleticism.

Don't argue math stuff if you don't have a basic understanding of how it works.  I know very little but I at least have some basic understanding of how a correlation works.

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don't argue math stuff if you don't have a basic understanding of how it works.  I know very little  but I at least know how correlation works.

Lol, ok. 

Apparently you may not understand that "100% correlate except for Ghoslston" fails the logic test. 

It cannot "100% correlate" if even one example exists where it does not if fact correlate.

But again, this same old argument is boring at this point.  You're a RAS zealot type fan, and that's cool.  You're a guy who would have picked Mims and Gholston because of their great RAS's.  You like workout warriors.  To each their own.

[derp]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I think his WR trade targets suggests that he's looking for a stretch the field guy (like you've mentioned previously) and their interest in Olave could suggest they're looking at that even though he doesn't meet the size-aspect that they'd prefer.

Seems like someone like Alec Pierce, Christian Watson, or Tyquan Thornton are other candidates to fit the field stretching role that have size to boot. Have to teach all of them to be a receiver though.

Today I was wondering if the field stretcher preference wasn’t necessarily an indication he wouldn’t want London but directly related to the London rumors.

Last year I was thinking receiver wasn’t a big need with Crowder-Cole-Davis and a new coaching staff that came from a team that used 3WR sets at a low rate relative to other teams and with Crowder and a lot of 2 wide slot receiver in particular was off the table, then they went with a long view and took Moore - who has more inside-outside versatility than I gave him credit for.

They obviously want to foster Wilson’s development. I still think Moore-London-Davis lacks a downfield element. However, they may not view Davis as a long term piece. Moore-London-Metcalf/Hill/Mike Williams doesn’t have that problem, and lets them ease into London’s development. 

As a plan B Mims could still play that role and they could go hard at WR and do London and Pierce/Watson and hope they can deep threat by committee/volume/one of Mims/draft pick emerges. Especially since with London/Moore the deep threat is ideally a beast like Hill/Metcalf but roster construction wise potentially third one the team in targets and really used to ensure space for the others.

My big concern with London is them viewing him like he’s Mike Williams and setting him up to threaten teams deep outside when we don’t know if he’s that guy. If they want to use him as a heavy target power slot and have a plan to create space with another receiver who can threaten vertically it’s a very different dynamic. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's like QB rating.  It is just a way to aggregate a bunch of traits you are looking to see.  I found Jeff Smith the first time I saw it on some pro day tracker in the Detroit Free Press.  He's had a pretty solid career so far for a non-priority undrafted FA. 

Sure, it's just a amalgamation of various important athletics metrics. I wasn't trying to hate on it, just point out that I'm not sure this specific score is something NFL front offices use, even if there are obviously traits contained within the metrics they value (particularly at certain positions.)

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We're not making the picks, so what we think doesn't truly matter.  If you think RAS is the most vital thing for evaluating prospects, great.  I don't.

I never said it IS the "most vital thing" (though for pass rushers in particular, it's hugely important).  I just hate when silly mouth breathers shrug it off or deny it has ANY importance.  That's Mike Maccagnan thinking.  He dismissed measurables too and the results weren't good. 

Don't be a Mike Maccagnan.  It's an important part of the puzzle and should be treated as such.

[derp]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

One interesting thing about the above is how Sherwood and Nasrildeen scored out.  Sherwood in particular sucked, but if you rated his speed at LB instead of S he'd probably be somewhat better than very poor.  Likewise, Nasrildeen would probably lost some of his "elite" size compared to LBs. 

I dunno, linebackers are big and fast nowadays. While people were saying 4.59 wasn’t a bad time for Kyle Hamilton as a safety, he would’ve been the lightest linebacker and 12th out of 24 in the 40. Granted this year’s linebacker class is very athletic, but I think if you run those guys at linebacker it’s still average.