BRADY RETIRES

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Manning is the Greg Norman of football.  Name a greater player at his level who choked as often.  You forgot to disparage Brady by saying the lowly Jets beat him in 2010.  He is the GOAT.  He leads or is at the top in almost every category. 

Like talking about Babe Ruth. Find a list where Ruth isn't named greatest player of all time. They don't exist.

 

I can't find a list where Brady isn't #1 QB of all time.  Im sure one exists. BUT 95 percent say Brady.

 

His often do you and his Dad golf together? 

[TenYardFight]

23 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Selfish pig does it in the SB news cycle, yet again. No matter what, gotta take away from the guys that earned the spotlight this year.

He informed the Bucs organization at 6am that day that he was retired.  Looks like he just woke that morning and decided he was done.  He literally only said it on Instagram.  There's 2 weeks of Super Bowl nothingness.  What do you want him to do?  

[TenYardFight]

12 hours ago, Ben Had said:

I think we all know it was a slap in the face to BB...He proved a point...it was him. It also showed that having a franchise QB is what makes HOF HC's...

BB is going to surpass Shula for the all time win record, so I'm sure he'll be just fine.  

Oh wait, I forgot, we need resident BB-ologists like nyjunc to tell us that hundreds of BB's NFL wins don't count because of Brady.  Because he just sat there and picked his ass throughout all of those.

[JustInFudge]

11 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

Anyone see Mike on First Take today arguing he isn’t the GOAT ???

Pretty much spot on, I'd also say he's no where near the most talented QB of all time - there are 2 dudes still playing who blow him out of the water talent wise w/ Rodgers and Mahomes.  And I dont think Mahomes will need to play as long as Brady to unseat him, the trajectory Mahomes is on is ridiculous.  But that fact remains, both those dudes do sh*t Brady could only dream of.

[southparkcpa]

17 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

His often do you and his Dad golf together? 

Huh???   You drinking again??

[The Crusher]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Huh???   You drinking again??

Not enough coffee. Haha 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[Dunnie]

Pretty much spot on, I'd also say he's no where near the most talented QB of all time - there are 2 dudes still playing who blow him out of the water talent wise w/ Rodgers and Mahomes.  And I dont think Mahomes will need to play as long as Brady to unseat him, the trajectory Mahomes is on is ridiculous.  But that fact remains, both those dudes do sh*t Brady could only dream of.

Maholmes won't come close .. his circus game won't have the longevity needed ... I bet it falls apart in his mid 30s

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[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Maholmes won't come close .. his circus game won't have the longevity needed ... I bet it falls apart in his mid 30s

[Jetsfan80]

So to recap.  @Dunnie:

 

* Defended Jamal Adams to the end

* Thinks Zach Wilson is good

* Loves Tom Brady

 

I try to like you dude.  I really do.  You make it oh so difficult with these takes.  

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Maholmes won't come close .. his circus game won't have the longevity needed ... I bet it falls apart in his mid 30s

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

Circus game?  He had 4900 yards and 35 TD's from the pocket this year, Dunnie.  

lmfao

 

[Dunnie]

So to recap.  [mention=28731]Dunnie[/mention]:
 
* Defended Jamal Adams to the end
* Thinks Zach Wilson is good
* Loves Tom Brady
 
I try to like you dude.  I really do.  You make it oh so difficult with these takes.  

Let me help you ..

Jamal had talent ... Was a douche... I defended him as a SS being slammed for not being Ed Reed

Zach had talent ... Was misdrafted and handled poorly

Brady is the Goat


I'll be curious to see what happens to the game in the coming decade .. if they further protect the QB with more flag football rules ... Maholmes will have a chance.... Andy Reid ain't young though.

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[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Let me help you ..

Jamal had talent ... Was a douche... I defended him as a SS being slammed for not being Ed Reed

 

At tackling RBs?  That isn't a very useful talent in the NFL in 2023.  Saying he wasn't Ed Reed here is a massive understatement.  

 

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Zach had talent ... Was misdrafted and handled poorly

At making impressive looking throws in shorts?  And by "misdrafted" we agree:  He was massively overdrafted.

 

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Brady is the Goat

No and GFY

 

This didn't help at all.  Thanks though!

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Maholmes won't come close .. his circus game won't have the longevity needed ... I bet it falls apart in his mid 30s

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

Mahomes will break every one of Brady's records by his mid 30s.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

21 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Let Rodgers play 6 more years here and win 6 SBs and surpass TB12 as GOAT.

This is football, not tennis or boxing or golf.  It is a team sport that uses the most players of any team sport.  Teams win, not individual players.  Brady didn't win 7 SBs - the teams he played for did.  

Some of the best QBs I have seen had 0 or 1 SB wins because they were on flawed teams.  By your reasoning, Marv Fleming was the best TE of all time - the GOAT.  He has 4 SB rings, or should I say he won 4 SBs.  Take that, Tony Gonzalez, John Mackey, Kellen Winslow.......Charles Haley "won" 5 SBs. Is he the best pass rusher of all time?  The GOAT of pass rushers?  

Are you telling me that Brady's teams had nothing to do with those wins?  Coaching, the Pats defense, Adam Vinitieri, the offensive line, special teams, luck, other team's mistakes, and so on contributed nothing?  

Treating NFL QBs like individual sports performers is a ridiculous take by the sports media and fans.  

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, JiFields said:

Pretty much spot on, I'd also say he's no where near the most talented QB of all time - there are 2 dudes still playing who blow him out of the water talent wise w/ Rodgers and Mahomes.  And I dont think Mahomes will need to play as long as Brady to unseat him, the trajectory Mahomes is on is ridiculous.  But that fact remains, both those dudes do sh*t Brady could only dream of.

Brady is nowhere near as bad as his detractors claim (me being one of his biggest detractors), but he also isn't the GOAT. He played on tremendous teams as evidenced by the fact that he had top 10 defenses in 18 of his 21 years, and in two of those three years the pats didn't win a playoff game. Every year that he's made or won the super bowl, his team defense was top 8. He also never had to contend against a Brady-Belichick team in the same conference.

Contrast that with someone like Peyton who only had a top 10 defense in 4 of his 16 years in the league, and had to play against a Brady-Belichick team in his conference every single season. He actually ended up 3-2 against them lifetime in the playoffs. The two SBs he won, his defenses were ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

I have Brady 3rd right now behind Peyton and Aaron, and I'm positive that Mahomes will jump everyone by the time he's done. Part of the reason I root so hard for the chiefs is just to see Mahomes win a bunch more SBs so that the media will stop with this nonsense of putting a goat's head on brady's pictures and other similar bullsh*t. 

[DoubleDown]

[southparkcpa]

42 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Brady is nowhere near as bad as his detractors claim (me being one of his biggest detractors), but he also isn't the GOAT. He played on tremendous teams as evidenced by the fact that he had top 10 defenses in 18 of his 21 years, and in two of those three years the pats didn't win a playoff game. Every year that he's made or won the super bowl, his team defense was top 8. He also never had to contend against a Brady-Belichick team in the same conference.

Contrast that with someone like Peyton who only had a top 10 defense in 4 of his 16 years in the league, and had to play against a Brady-Belichick team in his conference every single season. He actually ended up 3-2 against them lifetime in the playoffs. The two SBs he won, his defenses were ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

I have Brady 3rd right now behind Peyton and Aaron, and I'm positive that Mahomes will jump everyone by the time he's done. Part of the reason I root so hard for the chiefs is just to see Mahomes win a bunch more SBs so that the media will stop with this nonsense of putting a goat's head on brady's pictures and other similar bullsh*t. 

Can you find an independent list that doesn't have him as #1 or  behind Aaron?  Just one, Let's say ESPN, Bleacher any list that might agree with you?

 

Im sure one exists and you'll find it but it will be difficult. 

 

 

 

[Leftylarry]

Most great QBs like Montana,, Brady and now Mahomes have something in common, they played for great coaches in top organizations with talent around them, from that Standpoint, I’d say Brady is pretty special because Belly- Check didn’t exactly win much before him and so far after him and some of those teams won and won without great offensive personnel around him.

Cant argue that a JAG like Troy Brown was an all time great WR LOL .

[greenwichjetfan]

54 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Can you find an independent list that doesn't have him as #1 or  behind Aaron?  Just one, Let's say ESPN, Bleacher any list that might agree with you?

 

Im sure one exists and you'll find it but it will be difficult. 

 

 

 

Why does it matter, and what would it prove if you could find one? 

edit: I'd like to point out that there actually are quite a few very well regarded football historians who use data-based analysis along with qualitative factors, and they have Peyton as #1 over Brady as well. Again, not that it matters, because my opinions are my own, and those articles that I've read do nothing but serve as confirmation bias. 

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Why does it matter, and what would it prove if you could find one? 

edit: I'd like to point out that there actually are quite a few very well regarded football historians who use data-based analysis along with qualitative factors, and they have Peyton as #1 over Brady as well. Again, not that it matters, because my opinions are my own, and those articles that I've read do nothing but serve as confirmation bias. 

Opinions and facts are very different...... yes, you're opinion. We agree.  When a person's opinion is different than 95 percent of the population, that says something. 

The 1 guy that didn't vote for Jeter in the HOF defends his position as do you yours.

 

 

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Leftylarry said:

Most great QBs like Montana,, Brady and now Mahomes have something in common, they played for great coaches in top organizations with talent around them, from that Standpoint, I’d say Brady is pretty special because Belly- Check didn’t exactly win much before him and so far after him and some of those teams won and won without great offensive personnel around him.

Cant argue that a JAG like Troy Brown was an all time great WR LOL .

Yes.  This aspect cannot be understated.

Imagine if Brady had been drafted by the Browns (or Jags, Jets, etc.)

The situation was good for Manning as well with a HOF GM in Bill Polian who surrounded him with dudes like Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, etc.

[bitonti]

Tom Brady is a very accomplished and talented player he's also a cheater 

Besides spygate and deflate gate he also was involved in the dolphins tampering situation. In short he's been involved with all three situations where the league took away draft picks 

This year he kicked Grady Jarrett after a sack, tried to trip / slide tackle Malik hooker and was fined by the league for both of these situations 

People say he's the goat but the goat should be cleaner than this 

 

[greenwichjetfan]

29 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Opinions and facts are very different...... yes, you're opinion. We agree.  When a person's opinion is different than 95 percent of the population, that says something. 

The 1 guy that didn't vote for Jeter in the HOF defends his position as do you yours.

HoF and GOAT are different conversations. I have Brady as the 3rd greatest QB of all time. He's the most winningest QB of all time. He's a HoF player. That has no relation at all to the idiot that voted against Jeter's credentials for the HoF. 

I don't care about 95% of the population. They see shiny rings and like gollum, think that's the only way to measure a QB on the ultimate team sport. They also have absolutely no problem literally omitting the fact that he's the only starting QB in league history to be suspended for cheating, and also benefitted greatly from another cheating scandal a decade prior. 

You think Peyton is a choker while Brady is the GOAT, and feel that your opinion is validated by random beat writers and loudmouth talking heads looking to get clicks - great for you. There are plenty of facts to disprove both. I have both of them as Mt Rushmore QBs, so obviously I can understand any argument being made on his behalf. However, my eyes and brain tell me that Peyton is the GOAT, and there is a community of football writers and historians who feel the same way as I do based on metrics and their years of studying football. I'm more than ok with my opinion falling in line with theirs rather than with the peter kings/manish mehtas/skip bayless's of the world. 

[southparkcpa]

48 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

There are plenty of facts to disprove both. I have both of them as Mt Rushmore QBs, so obviously I can understand any argument being made on his behalf. However, my eyes and brain tell me that Peyton is the GOAT, and there is a community of football writers and historians who feel the same way as I do based on metrics and their years of studying football.

Ive never seen an analyst say what you said.  90 percent of all football experts/analysts/talking heads have chosen Brady. I get it, you're OK being in the small minority.  Brady ever lose to Chad 41 zip?? 

Couldn't resist.  Manning is an under performer in most big games. As was CMart.

[PFSIKH]

6 hours ago, JiFields said:

Pretty much spot on, I'd also say he's no where near the most talented QB of all time - there are 2 dudes still playing who blow him out of the water talent wise w/ Rodgers and Mahomes.  And I dont think Mahomes will need to play as long as Brady to unseat him, the trajectory Mahomes is on is ridiculous.  But that fact remains, both those dudes do sh*t Brady could only dream of.

Yeah, but.....

His arguments are a tad weak. 

Best regular season QB?  First, really?  That is how we are going to judge greatness?  I understand his argument.  Was Peyton more cerebral?  Maybe.  I can't argue if Tom is more physically gifted than Rodgers or Mahomes.  Or half the QBs in any given year, but I digress. 

Peyton benefitted from playing indoors at least 8 or 9 games a year while in Indy versus at least 10 games every year where NYC is the furthest South the game was played.  Peyton benefitted from having more offensive talent.  Yet, Peyton's numbers were not all that much better.  This year, largely due to playing on a bad team, Tom finally eclipsed Peyton's regular season loss mark.  69 more games..giggity giggity and 3 more losses.  Tom would probably need another 3-4 seasons to eclipse Peyton's INT mark.   Ok, he is the greatest regular season guy because he has a big f'ing dome.  Got it.  Weak.

I understand the Joe was 4-0 and virtually perfect in the Superbowl argument.  It is a very good argument. Similar to Peyton's big head argument, okay.   What was Joe's W/L in the other playoff seasons?  4-7.  Tom was 13-13 and he finished 1-3.  Joe had four one and dones.  Tom?  3.

His Peyton take was bad because he did not back with anything outside his own empirical evidence....his eyes  His he was benched in college was worse.  Yeah, he was benched because Llyod Carr was dumb.

HE was prodded back to reality when Stephen A asked if you look at the whole resume, regualr and post season is he the GOAT?  ses.

[greenwichjetfan]

12 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Ive never seen an analyst say what you said.  90 percent of all football experts/analysts/talking heads have chosen Brady. I get it, you're OK being in the small minority.  Brady ever lose to Chad 41 zip?? 

Couldn't resist.  Manning is an under performer in most big games. As was CMart.

Do you actually want to have a real debate or are you just here to make a point? I'm good with either, just need to know how deep I should go. Otherwise if this is just your way of passing time in between clients, I can counter with "Did Peyton ever lose to a journeyman backup QB in the SB?"

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Opinions and facts are very different...... yes, you're opinion. We agree.  When a person's opinion is different than 95 percent of the population, that says something. 

The 1 guy that didn't vote for Jeter in the HOF defends his position as do you yours.

 

 

 

Making lists of the best players in any sport, either within or across eras, is completely subjective and is always opinion. There are no facts that determine who is the best QB in 2022, in the last 10 years, or in NFL history.  There are so many variables that go into a QBs stats and a team winning and losing games that stating that any one player is better than another is always without question and undoubtedly opinion.  IMO, Brady is not the best QB of all time.  He is not even in my top 5.  I can provide many facts for that opinion and those facts are no less relevant or accurate than whatever facts those who make those lists you find so important rely on (usually the 7 SB rings and career numbers he accumulated by playing for 23 years). 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Do you actually want to have a real debate or are you just here to make a point? I'm good with either, just need to know how deep I should go. Otherwise if this is just your way of passing time in between clients, I can counter with "Did Peyton ever lose to a journeyman backup QB in the SB?"

I'm just breaking your balls. All good. The answer is Peyton didn't get their enough to lose to a journeyman.

 

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

29 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I'm just breaking your balls. All good. The answer is Peyton didn't get their enough to lose to a journeyman.

 

 

Brady's teams  lost playoff games to many teams with journeyman QBs:

 

• Jake Plummer
• Joe Flacco (twice - at home)
• Mark Sanchez (at home)
• Ryan Tannehill (at home)
• Nick Foles 

Plus, Peyton Manning is 3-2 vs Brady in playoff games, choker that he is.  Brady's Pats did not defeat a team whose QB was a Manning since 2004.  

[southparkcpa]

20 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Brady's teams  lost playoff games to many teams with journeyman QBs:

 

• Jake Plummer
• Joe Flacco (twice - at home)
• Mark Sanchez (at home)
• Ryan Tannehill (at home)
• Nick Foles 

Plus, Peyton Manning is 3-2 vs Brady in playoff games, choker that he is.  Brady's Pats did not defeat a team whose QB was a Manning since 2004.  

Brady won more SB's after the age of 35 that either Manning and more than both of them and all the above combined.  Let's just stop.  We disagree. Im with 95 percent of analysts and you're not. It's OK.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This is football, not tennis or boxing or golf.  It is a team sport that uses the most players of any team sport.  Teams win, not individual players.  Brady didn't win 7 SBs - the teams he played for did.  

Some of the best QBs I have seen had 0 or 1 SB wins because they were on flawed teams.  By your reasoning, Marv Fleming was the best TE of all time - the GOAT.  He has 4 SB rings, or should I say he won 4 SBs.  Take that, Tony Gonzalez, John Mackey, Kellen Winslow.......Charles Haley "won" 5 SBs. Is he the best pass rusher of all time?  The GOAT of pass rushers?  

Are you telling me that Brady's teams had nothing to do with those wins?  Coaching, the Pats defense, Adam Vinitieri, the offensive line, special teams, luck, other team's mistakes, and so on contributed nothing?  

Treating NFL QBs like individual sports performers is a ridiculous take by the sports media and fans.  

Football is the ultimate team sport.  But QB is also the most important position in sports.  It's no coincidence that Brady won all 7 of those Super Bowls (and appeared in, but lost, 3 others).  You think Tampa was going to win the Super Bowl had Brady not gone there?  

As Jet fans, Brady has caused us a ton of pain (in a sports sense) over the last 2+ decades.  But as football fans, how can you not respect the guy's career? 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

REGULAR SEASON:

POST SEASON:

Look at this run of 8 years.  3 SB wins, 2 SB losses and 3 AFC CG losses.  And 1st place every year.  He went 11-5 once, 12-4 four times, 13-3 two times, and 14-2 once.

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Football is the ultimate team sport.  But QB is also the most important position in sports.  It's no coincidence that Brady won all 7 of those Super Bowls (and appeared in, but lost, 3 others).  You think Tampa was going to win the Super Bowl had Brady not gone there?  

As Jet fans, Brady has caused us a ton of pain (in a sports sense) over the last 2+ decades.  But as football fans, how can you not respect the guy's career? 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

REGULAR SEASON:

POST SEASON:

Look at this run of 8 years.  3 SB wins, 2 SB losses and 3 AFC CG losses.  And 1st place every year.  He went 11-5 once, 12-4 four times, 13-3 two times, and 14-2 once.

 

I respect his career and I understand the importance of the QB position, thank you.  I can also look up his stats on Pro Football Reference, so no need to copy and paste them here.  I just do not think he is the best QB of all time.  If Manning was on the Pats and Brady on the Colts, Manning would be the one with the rings.  Or Drew Brees.  Or Marino.  Or many other QBs who did not have the supporting cast or unbelievably good luck (plus the cheating) as Brady.  Brady had incredible atypical good fortune in virtually every run to his SB appearances.  His post season stats are actually no better than many many other HOF QBs.  Same with his regular season stats. He wins the longevity award and the good fortune award. He is a clear HOF QB and one of the greatest of all time, but this GOAT stuff is BS in a team sport that has changed dramatically over the years to favor QBs and the passing game.  

And, he did not win those games, his team did.   That's what rubs me the wrong way, this Brady won stuff.  How many SBs did Brady win because Vinatieri hit the long winning FG along the way ? How many because the defense made the big play in the game ?  How many because the opponent crapped the bed?  How many due to cheating?  

 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I respect his career and I understand the importance of the QB position, thank you.  I can also look up his stats on Pro Football Reference, so no need to copy and paste them here.  I just do not think he is the best QB of all time.  If Manning was on the Pats and Brady on the Colts, Manning would be the one with the rings.  Or Drew Brees.  Or Marino.  Or many other QBs who did not have the supporting cast or unbelievably good luck (plus the cheating) as Brady.  Brady had incredible atypical good fortune in virtually every run to his SB appearances.  His post season stats are actually no better than many many other HOF QBs.  Same with his regular season stats. He wins the longevity award and the good fortune award. He is a clear HOF QB and one of the greatest of all time, but this GOAT stuff is BS in a team sport that has changed dramatically over the years to favor QBs and the passing game.  

And, he did not win those games, his team did.   That's what rubs me the wrong way, this Brady won stuff.  How many SBs did Brady win because Vinatieri hit the long winning FG along the way ? How many because the defense made the big play in the game ?  How many because the opponent crapped the bed?  How many due to cheating?  

I wish we had him as QB of the NYJ for the past 23 years.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I wish we had him as QB of the NYJ for the past 23 years.

And you made it clear you wanted him as QB of the Jets for the next few years.    And your unabashed adoration of the guy is puke worthy for a Jets fan.  I'm happy he's retired.  Can we stop talking about him now?  It's insufferable.