Joe Douglas IS a Good GM

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I do believe, old friend, that you were the one who cited them as worthy of deference, not I.

My disdain for the modern era of Twitter Media is well known, and universal, lol.

By the way, what are we even arguing about at this point?  Is this one of those famous distinctions-without-a-difference issues?

Wait, what? I cited an article as some basic evidence that Woody is driving the Rodgers trade. You dismissed that immediately because "media." Then you turned around and cited media as your evidence for JD being desperate. I don't know, but one of us is smoking too much weed. Here's another article re Woody's role... there are quite a few. I haven't seen any that show JD as the driving force for the trade. He's executing it, yes. But that's his function. Even then, Woody is thoroughly involved...

 

Home  NYC Teams  New York Jets

• NYC TEAMS
• NEW YORK JETS

Could Woody Johnson be reason Jets-Aaron Rodgers deal gets done?

By

 Matt Musico

 -

 03/09/2023

Benny Sieu-USA TODAY Sports

Are we finally reaching the end of the “Will he or won’t he” Aaron Rodgers saga as it relates to the Jets? It certainly sounds like we are. But maybe not. Who knows — it is Rodgers we’re talking about, after all.

Things accelerated for New York and the signal-caller earlier this week. Reports surfaced that both sides chatted on Monday. Then, a Jets contingent flew out to southern California on owner Woody Johnson’s private plane to woo the four-time NFL MVP in person.

Now back from the trip, they’re just waiting for Rodgers to make a decision. According to ESPN’s Dianna Russini on the latest episode of Get Up!, Gang Green feels confident they’ll land their top option to play quarterback in New York next year (quote via Bleacher Report?

It actually started before that trip to the west coast to meet Aaron Rodgers in person. This was all driven by owner Woody Johnson. He wanted to get in front of the quarterback, get to know him a little bit, and talk about what it could be, what it could look like and what they could achieve with Aaron Rodgers under center in New York with this Jets roster. So they went in there thinking they could get him, and they came home believing they are poised to get him, and they feel like they can get this done.

When we joked about the most important person being on that cross-country flight earlier this week (i.e. Nathaniel Hackett), a few joked on the Twitter machine that they wished Johnson stayed in New York.

But could he be the driving force behind a deal getting done? It seems like they could’ve easily pursued and signed Derek Carr if they preferred to have a resolution as soon as possible. However, he signed with the New Orleans Saints, essentially leaving a Rodgers-or-bust situation on the table.

We’ll find out what the signal-caller wants to do soon enough. Maybe before the weekend? That’d be nice. Or maybe he’ll make us wait until next week. Once again, who knows… this is Rodgers we’re talking about.

Matt Musico can be reached at matt.musico@xlmedia.com and you can follow him on Twitter: @mmusico8.

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

More of the same....

I'll ask you again LiL, what are we even arguing about at this point?  

Let me try and summarize my understanding of this already far too long exchange so far:

• You think Woody is driving this.  Because some media say so.
• I think JD is driving this, with Woody's support. Because JD's situation is obvious.

Is that about right?

If so, what are we debating?  This is a distinction entirely without any meaningful difference. 

The outcome of either option is entirely the same: 

We win, JD keeps his job.  We lose, he likely doesn't.

[Saul Goodman]

For OP 

[Balls Mahoney]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:13 AM, AVM said:

That said I'm going to need a "Joe Douglas IS an average GM" thread with evidence before I'm ready to make my decision.

Name me 1 draft pick Joe Douglas missed on.  The man is a genius

[JETS SB]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'll ask you again LiL, what are we even arguing about at this point?  

Let me try and summarize my understanding of this already far too long exchange so far:

• You think Woody is driving this.  Because some media say so.
• I think JD is driving this, with Woody's support. Because JD's situation is obvious.

Is that about right?

If so, what are we debating?  This is a distinction entirely without any meaningful difference. 

The outcome of either option is entirely the same: 

We win, JD keeps his job.  We lose, he likely doesn't.

I don’t believe it will happen as I feel the Rodgers trade is already agreed upon in principle, I have to agree with you that JD is likely finished if we go into this season with Zach Wilson (or his clone Wil Levis) and we do not make the playoffs. We pretty much have to get Rodgers. But I will say that if it means we have to give up a guaranteed 1st round pick PLUS, I would pass on the trade, try to acquire another QB to compete with Wilson, and hope for a miracle. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'll ask you again LiL, what are we even arguing about at this point?  

Let me try and summarize my understanding of this already far too long exchange so far:

• You think Woody is driving this.  Because some media say so.
• I think JD is driving this, with Woody's support. Because JD's situation is obvious.

Is that about right?

If so, what are we debating?  This is a distinction entirely without any meaningful difference. 

The outcome of either option is entirely the same: 

We win, JD keeps his job.  We lose, he likely doesn't.

LOL. Honestly, I was getting annoyed that you kept stating as if it were a known fact that JD and Saleh are pursuing Rodgers unilaterally in desperation to save their jobs. That's now what I've read or understood. Do they want a better QB -- of course -- their jobs do ultimately depend on winning. But the specific decision to go all in on Rodgers appears to me based on the reports to be a Woody decision. That's all I've got. 

I should have added that this issue seems to be a factor for some in assessing Joe Douglas as a GM. In this case, I think he's performing his function to get a deal done, but I'm not convinced that this is the choice he would have made if left to his own devices. That, I can only speculate on based on his prior MO.

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

LOL. Honestly, I was getting annoyed that you kept stating as if it were a known fact that JD and Saleh are pursuing Rodgers unilaterally in desperation to save their jobs. That's now what I've read or understood.

Where would you expect to read that specifically?  Woody isn't the type of owner to publicly say "do this, or I will fire you" is he?

I've heard it repeatedly on radio that the Jets regime needs to start showing results or "else", with that always sort of left unsaid.

My opinion is based purely on the circumstances:

• 20-46 record as GM
• Bust Zach Wilson
• Going into Year 5 (of 6)

It hard to see a losing year leading to him being extended, or Woody letting him go into 2024 as a lame duck.  Is it possible, absolutely, I just don't opine it be likely.

So JD needs to win in 2023, to some degree, to save himself.  And save Saleh, because if JD goes, likely does Saleh as well.

I don't feel like this is a crazy reach or hot take here.  JD had one great draft last year, but there clearly needs to be more tangible results in the W/L columns.  Do you agree?

26 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Do they want a better QB -- of course -- their jobs do ultimately depend on winning.

Exactly.

26 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

But the specific decision to go all in on Rodgers appears to me based on the reports to be a Woody decision. That's all I've got.

I read the article you posted and I guess I'm just not seeing it.  I see an Owner saying supportive things and PR things.  Not stating dictates to his GM via the media.

26 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

I should have added that this issue seems to be a factor for some in assessing Joe Douglas as a GM. In this case, I think he's performing his function to get a deal done, but I'm not convinced that this is the choice he would have made if left to his own devices. That, I can only speculate on based on his prior MO.

Agreed, we can only speculate.  And people do what they're told to save lucrative jobs, no doubt.

But in this case I really do think it's a case of mutually aligned interested.

Woody is getting impatient, and JD knows he's running out of time to show real demonstrable improvement (i.e. a playoff berth).

Because of the ramifications of Wilson's drafting, this move serves the dual purpose of buying everyone time (1-2 years) to look at the longer term future at QB while also giving us a chance to get out of this decade-long funk on no playoffs, which clearly embarrasses our owner.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Where would you expect to read that specifically?  Woody isn't the type of owner to publicly say "do this, or I will fire you" is he?

I've heard it repeatedly on radio that the Jets regime needs to start showing results or "else", with that always sort of left unsaid.

My opinion is based purely on the circumstances:

• 20-46 record as GM
• Bust Zach Wilson
• Going into Year 5 (of 6)

It hard to see a losing year leading to him being extended, or Woody letting him go into 2024 as a lame duck.  Is it possible, absolutely, I just don't opine it be likely.

So JD needs to win in 2023, to some degree, to save himself.  And save Saleh, because if JD goes, likely does Saleh as well.

I don't feel like this is a crazy reach or hot take here.  JD had one great draft last year, but there clearly needs to be more tangible results in the W/L columns.  Do you agree?

Exactly.

I read the article you posted and I guess I'm just not seeing it.  I see an Owner saying supportive things and PR things.  Not stating dictates to his GM via the media.

Agreed, we can only speculate.  And people do what they're told to save lucrative jobs, no doubt.

But in this case I really do think it's a case of mutually aligned interested.

Woody is getting impatient, and JD knows he's running out of time to show real demonstrable improvement (i.e. a playoff berth).

Because of the ramifications of Wilson's drafting, this move serves the dual purpose of buying everyone time (1-2 years) to look at the longer term future at QB while also giving us a chance to get out of this decade-long funk on no playoffs, which clearly embarrasses our owner.

Is it just me or have you become less like Krushchev and more like Gorbachev? I guess that makes me Ronald Reagan, which I'm not entirely happy about. But I have Nancy, so there's that.

[Joe W. Namath]

The sky is blue.

[nyjets1969]

Best GM they had since Parcells left the inherited a complete wreck of a franchise that's why it's taking so long to turn it around not just talent the scouting, recruiting the upper brass thing is a disaster now  you are starting to seeing difference think Zach was the first really bad decision he made he will have to figure a way to fix that if he can he will be here a very long time.

[jtomm]

On 4/19/2023 at 2:51 AM, Dunnie said:

There are none.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[32EBoozer]

6 minutes ago, jtomm said:

You know, there are other ways to convey a message without using the Lord's name in vain. It is offensive to practicing Christians that are on this board. 

[Green Ghost]

4 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

You know, there are other ways to convey a message without using the Lord's name in vain. It is offensive to practicing Christians that are on this board. 

I had this same discussion a few years ago with joewilly12 when he kept posting the little kid’s quote from that Sandler movie, the G****** Jets. 
it didn’t go well for me. Hope you have better luck.

[jtomm]

2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

You know, there are other ways to convey a message without using the Lord's name in vain. It is offensive to practicing Christians that are on this board. 

[Claymation]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:27 PM, Warfish said:

How is the QB position looking, five years in?

[DonCorleone]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:39 PM, JETS SB said:

I like what I see. If you don't see what I see, as far as the young core that has been formed, then you are beyond help.

Last season this team had a complete and total collapse at the end of the season. Does it have talent? Yes, does it have character? Who knows! You are what the record says you are; the record from last year is one of collapse. So am I hopeful? hell yeah but I am also not dismissing Joe Douglass' abysmal record. FYI, we are in year four of his three-year building plan.

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

I had this same discussion a few years ago with joewilly12 when he kept posting the little kid’s quote from that Sandler movie, the G****** Jets. 
it didn’t go well for me. Hope you have better luck.

All I can do is make a compelling argument. I told my kids growing up that people evaluate you on your appearance, conduct & eloquence... for jobs, dating, friendships etc.

Habits carry over into other areas of your like. If your salty at work, you're most likely salty at home. If you're salty at home your wife and kids become salty. Being courteous on a message board probably means your courteous in all aspects of your life. 

[jtomm]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:27 PM, Warfish said:

How is the QB position looking, five years in?

..better   ?

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

All I can do is make a compelling argument. I told my kids growing up that people evaluate you on your appearance, conduct & eloquence... for jobs, dating, friendships etc.

Habits carry over into other areas of your like. If your salty at work, you're most likely salty at home. If you're salty at home your wife and kids become salty. Being courteous on a message board probably means your courteous in all aspects of your life. 

I can appreciate not taking the Lord's name in vain as much as the next guy.  OTOH, if you think I talk to my wife like I talk to you ****ers you're batsh*t crazy!

[Green Ghost]

9 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

All I can do is make a compelling argument. I told my kids growing up that people evaluate you on your appearance, conduct & eloquence... for jobs, dating, friendships etc.

Habits carry over into other areas of your like. If your salty at work, you're most likely salty at home. If you're salty at home your wife and kids become salty. Being courteous on a message board probably means your courteous in all aspects of your life. 

I think it’s also smart to have an open mind, and be enough of an adult to listen to things you may not want to hear.

You gave me some pretty good advice here a few weeks ago (a little tough love actually) and although it caught me off guard at first, you were right, and I appreciated you pointing it out.

[Green Ghost]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I can appreciate not taking the Lord's name in vain as much as the next guy.  OTOH, if you think I talk to my wife like I talk to you ****ers you're batsh*t crazy!

So true! Sometimes I try to imagine people saying what they say here to a stranger sitting next to them at a bar.

[jtomm]

On 4/20/2023 at 4:02 PM, Balls Mahoney said:

Name me 1 draft pick Joe Douglas missed on.  The man is a genius

[jgb]

On 4/19/2023 at 2:16 AM, JETS SB said:

(Currently only ONE of Maccagnan's 34 draft picks, remain on the Jets, Quinnen Williams)

All you had to say.

On 4/19/2023 at 2:16 AM, JETS SB said:

Never liked soft salty pretzels anyways. 

 

Ok, and that also had to be said.

[jgb]

On 4/19/2023 at 3:29 AM, bicketybam said:

Does this come with a sh*tty YouTube video like the other thread?

[Biggs]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:21 PM, SackExchangeNYJ said:

Wow. No context whatsoever to the record. No discussion of how he tore a shaky house down to the foundation, then started to build it up again. Let's ignore all that.

In fairness to Mac.  He did a great job digging a foundation hole.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:28 AM, Warfish said:

My grade of JD:

1. Coaching:  He didn't hire Eyeballs, so he gets a pass there, but he did hire Saleh, and I'm entirely unimpressed with Saleh as a Head Coach.  He's all bluster (receipts!), contradictory statements, and poor performance/decisions, especially at QB.  He hired MLF, already scapegoated off the staff.  No one here has ever expressed much love for our D.C., even after this year's much improved D performance.  

Grade:  C

2. Trades of Talent for Picks:  His best skill to-date.  Got vastly more than worth for Adams and Darnold.

Grade:  A

3. Free Agent Signings:  Mostly a mixed bag of short term guys who flopped, with a select few who did ok, but mostly a poor pool of players who weren't worth keeping longer.  Has failed to address QB via FA any better than he has with the draft.  The Flacco thing especially was laughable (cut, the traded to reacquire, lol)

Grade:  D

4. Draft (non-QB):  A mixed bag.  He picked Sauce and Wilson (guys most of us dumb forum folks also would have picked, so not exactly rocket science) and Hall (brave, most on this forum didn't want him at all), so he gets several points for that, but overall his picks are mostly placeholder JAG's who only played because of how deeply poor our roster was, not because they were that great themselves, outright misses, and one major bust (Becton, so far).  2020 is almost entire poor in hindsight, 2021 AVT is a nice piece, albeit like so many Jets got hurt, we can debate Carter the RB (I think he's a JAG personally, but I know some like him alot), and after that....mostly placeholders at best.  2022 was the big hit, Sauce, Wilson, Hall, with the rest TBD.

Grade:  B, only because of 2022.  D otherwise.

5. Draft (QB):  He picked Zach Wilson, a historic bust, at the most vital position on the field.  I don't care that Wilson was the "expected" guy at that spot accordingly to the draft talking heads, it's a colossal miss with long-term ramifications.

Grade:  F. 

6. Results:  20-46.  We're desperate for a QB today, with only a bust and a no-name GB backup on the roster.  Looking to go against the "doing it the right way" to get Aaron Rodgers as a 1-year rental, 2-year max at great cost (possibly picks, definitely payroll and cap hit).  4 years, no playoffs, continuing the 8 years before him.  Never more than 7 wins, i.e. no winning seasons.  

Grade:  D, only because we're at least trending positive, albeit very slowly.

JD should rightfully be on the Hot Seat in 2023 to produce more tangible results.  He's entering year 5 of his 6 year deal, and he will not (I assured you) being going into 2024 as a lame-duck GM.  He will either be extended, or he will be fired before the 2024 season. 

So 2023 is a make or break season for JD in terms of tangible results.

Because of his mismanagement of the QB position, he finds himself in a make or break year without a starting quality QB in-hand, hence the Rodgers effort.  Getting him likely buys JD that extension if we produce a winning, playoff season.  Failure, with a healthy Rodgers, almost assuredly spells the end of JD and Saleh here in NY.

I would not fire or consider firing JD now.  But if we produce a losing season in 2023, I would strongly consider it, depending on the circumstances of course.    

Hard to argue the specific points here, clearly JD has botched the quarterback and offensive line. 

That said there is another thing to consider here - resource allocation.

We're finally a team that spends premium resources (money and especially draft picks) on premium positions.

After what seemed like a decade of 5 techs and strong safeties in the first round (combined with irresponsible FA contracts) - I finally feel like we have a competent GM.

It doesn't mean every JD move I love or agree with - but I do feel the dude understands how to actually build a roster that correlates with success on Sundays - he's just whiffed big on Becton and Wilson, which are two massive misses.

Simply put; I think we could do a lot worse at GM. 

[jtomm]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In fairness to Mac.  He did a great digging a foundation hole.  

[Corn]

You know, there are other ways to convey a message without using the Lord's name in vain. It is offensive to practicing Christians that are on this board. 

That’s not being vain about the Lords name you don’t know what you’re talking about . But you can’t chat here.clue define vain

[#27TheDominator]

51 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

So true! Sometimes I try to imagine people saying what they say here to a stranger sitting next to them at a bar.

I don't talk to my wife like a stranger at a bar either!

[SackExchangeNYJ]

It seems convenient how someone like DJ Reed doesn't get mentioned as a free agent acquisition, but the busts do.

[Dcat]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't talk to my wife like a stranger at a bar either!

No roleplaying there?  You're missing out.

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

I think it’s also smart to have an open mind, and be enough of an adult to listen to things you may not want to hear.

You gave me some pretty good advice here a few weeks ago (a little tough love actually) and although it caught me off guard at first, you were right, and I appreciated you pointing it out.

Having an open mind is always something I’m willing to do. If someone can make a compelling case on using the name of God attached with a profanity, I’m all ears. How about trying that with the name of the prophet of another religion attached to a curse word?

[Green Ghost]

45 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't talk to my wife like a stranger at a bar either!

Role playing isn’t for everyone. ?

[Green Ghost]

21 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Having an open mind is always something I’m willing to do. If someone can make a compelling case on using the name of God attached with a profanity, I’m all ears. How about trying that with the name of the prophet of another religion attached to a curse word?

Don’t misunderstand me 32. I wasn’t referring to using His name in vain with that post. I was thanking you for giving me a heads up a while back.

[Dcat]

10 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Role playing isn’t for everyone. ?

Mention role playing around here and all people think of Rex playing the foot loving cop with Michelle.