Let’s talk about Zach Wilson

[FootballLove]

21 minutes ago, Claymation said:

That's your fear? You are the epitome of the SOJ fan.  

Ah you think misery is your ally? You merely adopted the misery. I was born in it, molded by it. 

you highlighted the wrong part

[Claymation]

 

[y2k8]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:25 AM, Bowles Movement said:

The guys that have decided Wilson is a bust are the same guys that thought LaFleur was going to be our next head coach and that Ulbrich was an issue and would be fired.

He very well may be but these rush to judgements when he is going to get at the very least to change the narrative?

That's weird because I think Wilson is a bust and never thought the other two things.

Rush to judgement? LOL

[Biggs]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:25 AM, Bowles Movement said:

The guys that have decided Wilson is a bust are the same guys that thought LaFleur was going to be our next head coach and that Ulbrich was an issue and would be fired.

He very well may be but these rush to judgements when he is going to get at the very least to change the narrative?

Zach's DNA is all over the bodies of Moore and Lefluer.   Fortunately the chain of custody hasn't been contaminated yet and the closing argument by Douglas aquiring Rodgers seems to have resonated with the jury.  

[Embrace the Suck]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:33 PM, doitny said:

Zach will look good in preseason just like he did his 1st year. we cant be fooled again. 

Seems fishy... Like Darnold, ZW looked promising for a very short time initially until the Jets coaching staff got a hold of them. In both cases questionable OCs were employed by a HC that came from the D side of the ball. Sanchez could probably be thrown in there too. Not excusing anything, ZW should be on the bench, just analyzing the facts. Is it that the players suck or that the team fails to develop them and by the time the player gets to move on they're shell shocked/ruined already?

[JohnnyLV]

On 7/25/2023 at 7:09 AM, slats said:

My opinion is that the Jets are currently stuck with Zach, and talk about his development is mostly just that to pump up his confidence and value as a potential trade chip (or maybe comp pick). Rodgers is probably here for two years, which is also how many years Zach is under contract. It’s extremely hard to see the Jets extending him. He would have to have a massive turnaround, as well as the team’s trust, which I suspect is still pretty shaky. 
 
I have very little problem with him as the backup, though. Rodgers rarely misses a start, and Zach really isn’t any worse of an option than any other contending team has at backup QB. The team demonstrated it could win with him, even if it looked ugly as hell. That’s all you need from a backup. 

I’m very much rooting for him for as long as he’s a Jet, at least, but I don’t see him having a career here. 

I do not think the Jets see it that way. There is a lot to suggest that they still view Zach as the QB of the future. As Jordan Love has shown it's not necessarily fifth year option/franchise tag of bust. If the Jets want him and Zach has the confidence he will be the starter again in 2 years then he is likely going to want to stay using Rodgers path as his own inspiration. I think fans want to put their fingers in their ears and chant na na na na nahhh but the reality is that Zach will almost unquestionably be the starting QB of the NY Jets again. People seem to forget that Zach is one of the most talented QBs in the entire NFL and very obviously received horrible coaching and development. The move for Rodgers was as much for Zach as it was for getting Rodgers short term. In addition Zach is STILL really young, he will only be 24 this year so its not like he will be old when Rodgers leaves. Rodgers did not even start until his 25/26 yr old season.

Also, I have to think the Geno Smith situation has an effect here. Smith was close to elite last year after we completely dismissed him as a bust and Zach is more talented. Not only will the Jets not want another QB to go to another team and become a FQB that will also see that maybe you should stick with a QB that you draft that high.

Finally, I do not think it is a coincidence AT ALL that the amount of the pay cut Rodgers took was almost literally the exact amount of Zach's entire contract.

https://overthecap.com/player/zach-wilson/9466

 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyLV said:

People seem to forget that Zach is one of the most talented QBs in the entire NFL

I have to admit, I also forgot this. 

[JohnnyLV]

22 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Seems fishy... Like Darnold, ZW looked promising for a very short time initially until the Jets coaching staff got a hold of them. In both cases questionable OCs were employed by a HC that came from the D side of the ball. Sanchez could probably be thrown in there too. Not excusing anything, ZW should be on the bench, just analyzing the facts. Is it that the players suck or that the team fails to develop them and by the time the player gets to move on they're shell shocked/ruined already?

I have said it before but MLF was probably the worst fit for a rookie QB like Zach EVER.

Zach was good  to great in college at

SPREAD

RPO play action

Throws outside the numbers'

Deep balls outside the numbers

Throwing on the run

Rolling out

Making plays off schedule

Back Shoulder throws

Zach was above average to bad in college at

Throws in the middle (he was still arguably good but he was weaker than outside the numbers)

Throws down the seam

Tight Splits

Mesh concepts and mult-read plays in contested space

He was BAD at throwing parallel to the line of scrimmage

So what offense did  MLF force Zach into

"Offense in a phone booth" MLF and Saleh's exact words.

Very tight splits

Multiple read option routes over the middle

Mesh concepts

Throws parallel to the LOS

Standard play action

Literally the worst possible offense you could put him in

But it gets worse.

LaFleur refused to adapt the offense to Zach or indeed really any of his players. It was his "system" or nothing

Zach wanted to be coached on the sideline -LaFleur refused

LaFleur did not even coach Zach he just stayed in his office and delegated coaching to others but none of the others were even competent coaches experienced with rookies

He had no relationship with Zach- Saleh did not fix this

He was open in his desire for Mike White, a better fit for the offense

He DID modify the offense for White

MLF wanted to prove his system as a way to become a NFL head coach. He was not interested in running the type of offense Zach needed

But yeah, it's all on Zach. FFS.

 

[Embrace the Suck]

6 minutes ago, JohnnyLV said:

LaFleur refused to adapt the offense to Zach or indeed really any of his players. It was his "system" or nothing

Completely agree. There were a few times where he seemed to adapt for a drive or two, the QB would do well, and then he'd revert as though he realized that his system was being exposed with the QB playing well when not running his sh*t.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

 People seem to forget that Zach is one of the most talented QBs in the entire NFL

What exactly does he do that other QBs cannot?  He can't run.  He isn't what he was advertised to be off-platform.  He has a strong arm?  Cool.  That's kind of the least important characteristic of a QB.  

[JohnnyLV]

50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What exactly does he do that other QBs cannot?  He can't run.  He isn't what he was advertised to be off-platform.  He has a strong arm?  Cool.  That's kind of the least important characteristic of a QB.  

Just ignore my posts. I know you disagree with anything other than Zach is the worst QB of all time, it is all on Zach, Zach should have not been drafted and Justin Fields is going to be good. Not really wanting to reply to you every time I post.

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What exactly does he do that other QBs cannot?  He can't run.  He isn't what he was advertised to be off-platform.  He has a strong arm?  Cool.  That's kind of the least important characteristic of a QB.  

Not sure that's true. He can certainly run as he has the longest Jets QB td run though, yes, he somehow hurt himself last preseason on that scramble. He can do all the physical stuff as advertised, but between the ears he's all fakakta... That's why all of a sudden screen passes became quantum physics, and running backwards while aimlessly spinning like a ballerina became a trend for him. We'll see if he can get his sh*t straight or not.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JohnnyLV said:

Just ignore my posts. I know you disagree with anything other than Zach is the worst QB of all time, it is all on Zach, Zach should have not been drafted and Justin Fields is going to be good. Not really wanting to reply to you every time I post.

No u

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

When responding to questions about the busts on his roster, Saleh's go-to phrase is:  "his talent is undeniable".

Heard him say this to Peter King about Becton today.

This has also long been his phrase of choice when deflecting / non-answering questions about ZW.

[Fantasy Island]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:48 PM, August said:

Zach Wilson should’ve been a 6th round developmental pick. However the best case scenario is him developing for a few years behind Rodgers and after Rodgers retires Wilson takes over and becomes the guy we thought we were getting a few years back. 

Z.Wilson should have been UDFA fodder

[Joe W. Namath]

Zach Wilson is earning the backup qb job.  That is very important in his growth.  He was handed the starting job the 1st 2 years.  This is the 1st time hes earned it.

Looking forward to his continued growth and hope hes is ready to be the leader of this team in 2 years.  It is off to a great start!

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Not sure that's true. He can certainly run as he has the longest Jets QB td run though, yes, he somehow hurt himself last preseason on that scramble. He can do all the physical stuff as advertised, but between the ears he's all fakakta... That's why all of a sudden screen passes became quantum physics, and running backwards while aimlessly spinning like a ballerina became a trend for him. We'll see if he can get his sh*t straight or not.

If this were true, if it were that simple, instead of moving heaven and earth to re-brand themselves in the image of Aaron Rodgers, the Jets would be just scouring heaven and earth for the greatest sports psychologist in the history of mankind with the express purpose to salvage Zach Wilson.

This has always been the main problem with ZW, the Jets' coddling of him and the idiotic presumption on their part that neither he nor they are responsible for his shortcomings.

For example, his footwork sucks and he flees clean pockets because these are bad habits he developed at BYU and have persisted in the NFL in the absence of real coaching and accountability.

[Flashlite80]

On 7/25/2023 at 8:28 AM, FootballLove said:

My fear is we'll win big with AR, but that will come to an end and we'll have NOTHING in the pipeline. We will be back to square one searching for our FQB. Another decade of darkness. Those 'feel good years' will seem like so long ago, as the losses pile up and the Jets return to the cellar.

I think the thing with ZW is the same as with Becton. 

Give me a few very good years and I will take it.  You can always buy a veteran.  If the GM and coach are successful, future success will follow.  Should draft a developmental QB next year.  Need an alternative if Zach doesn't work out.

[kdels62]

Zach Wilson is probably a bust. If he’s not it’ll be entirely unexpected. Still high upside tho. He’s just likely to never see that upside.

[Embrace the Suck]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

the Jets would be just scouring heaven and earth for the greatest sports psychologist in the history of mankind with the express purpose to salvage Zach Wilson.

Maybe they did while simultaneously opening a window for a run with a HoF qb. 

[rex-n-effect]

It's great that he's having a good camp--it sounds like a better camp than last year. The real test will be how he performs in the preseason games when he has to account for players who can and will make contact. 

IMO a good outcome for the offseason would be for ZW to be the unquestionable backup. That sounds so stupid for a #2 pick in his third year but the situation has to be judged for what it is in the realm of reasonableness. 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

37 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Zach Wilson is probably a bust. If he’s not it’ll be entirely unexpected. Still high upside tho. He’s just likely to never see that upside.

And maybe he wont be a bust.  Lets see how it plays out.  Support him to the fullest and hope for the best.

The start of his journey back to the top could not of gotten off to a better start!

[fltflo]

Part of Rodgers being here is to mentor Zach and get him ready to take over when Rodgers retires.  Is Zach is improving and playing well in practice and preseason games, they are not trading him.  
You think Rodgers is wasting time mentoring Zach so he improves and can go play for another team?

TBH, it my hope that we draft another young prospect next year. That prospect will have a year to also watch Rogers and absorb his teaching. The plus side of doing this is,he will not have to be broken of bad habits learned from being thrown into the fire before he is ready.



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Joe W. Namath]

5 minutes ago, fltflo said:

TBH, it my hope that we draft another young prospect next year. That prospect will have a year to also watch Rogers and absorb his teaching. The plus side of doing this is,he will not have to be broken of bad habits learned from being thrown into the fire before he is ready.



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Not while Rodgers is here.  U cant jordan love him again.  Any premium picks will be used to help Rodgers win in this short window.

[Larz]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What exactly does he do that other QBs cannot?  He can't run.  He isn't what he was advertised to be off-platform.  He has a strong arm?  Cool.  That's kind of the least important characteristic of a QB.  

You actually just described the guy in Miami. 

[Jetsfan80]

22 minutes ago, Larz said:

You actually just described the guy in Miami. 

And you don’t see an issue there?  That the 5th round journeyman >>> supposedly Uber talented # 2 overall pick?

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And you don’t see an issue there?  That the 5th round journeyman >>> supposedly Uber talented # 2 overall pick?

That obviously wasn’t the point

Wilson is vastly superior in talent. Don’t embarrass yourself by disputing that. White is the guy with cement feet that takes the check downs. His arm is nowhere near Zach’s. The difference between them last year was mental. Experience, confidence and reading defenses. 
 

Wasn’t white getting starter money this year?  
 

Zach has shown improvement in several key areas. 
 

humility, accountability and confidence 

on the field he is stepping up in the pocket, the ball is coming out on time and he is driving the ball. 
 

no offense, but I’ll go with Sabo on this over a hater. 🤷‍♂️

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Larz said:

That obviously wasn’t the point

Wilson is vastly superior in talent. Don’t embarrass yourself by disputing that. White is the guy with cement feet that takes the check downs. His arm is nowhere near Zach’s. The difference between them last year was mental. Experience, confidence and reading defenses. 
 

Wasn’t white getting starter money this year?  
 

Zach has shown improvement in several key areas. 
 

humility, accountability and confidence 

on the field he is stepping up in the pocket, the ball is coming out on time and he is driving the ball. 
 

no offense, but I’ll go with Sabo on this over a hater. 🤷‍♂️

Big talk in July my man.  

[Larz]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Big talk in July my man.  

Acknowledging reality isn’t big talk. 

[Bleedin Green]

11 minutes ago, Larz said:

That obviously wasn’t the point

Wilson is vastly superior in talent. Don’t embarrass yourself by disputing that. White is the guy with cement feet that takes the check downs. His arm is nowhere near Zach’s. The difference between them last year was mental. Experience, confidence and reading defenses. 
 

Wasn’t white getting starter money this year?  
 

Zach has shown improvement in several key areas. 
 

humility, accountability and confidence 

on the field he is stepping up in the pocket, the ball is coming out on time and he is driving the ball. 
 

no offense, but I’ll go with Sabo on this over a hater. 🤷‍♂️

To date his on-field performance is that of quite literally an all-time NFL bust.

Spinning around in a circle and running backwards 10 yards isn't exactly a "talent".

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, Larz said:

Acknowledging reality isn’t big talk. 

It is when you try to spin it as something super meaningful and start talking about “eating crow” and stuff

[kdels62]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

And maybe he wont be a bust.  Lets see how it plays out.  Support him to the fullest and hope for the best.

The start of his journey back to the top could not of gotten off to a better start!

He’s probably a bust. Regardless of blind hope, the reality is that players that are that bad through 2 seasons stay bad. Let him look good in the preseason and TC and win the back up spot. That’s the most anyone can ask for at this point.

[Creepy Lurker]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He’s probably a bust. Regardless of blind hope, the reality is that players that are that bad through 2 seasons stay bad. Let him look good in the preseason and TC and win the back up spot. That’s the most anyone can ask for at this point.

Preseason is less stressful than the actual season and should be a great way for Zach to stop being terrified and shell shocked. Maybe he can reset his fear and actually grow a little. I have no hope in him and think he’s terrible but I think getting a ton of “zero pressure” live reps in preseason can possibly fix him. It’s the best shot he’s got. 

[Dunnie]

Preseason is less stressful than the actual season and should be a great way for Zach to stop being terrified and shell shocked. Maybe he can reset his fear and actually grow a little. I have no hope in him and think he’s terrible but I think getting a ton of “zero pressure” live reps in preseason can possibly fix him. It’s the best shot he’s got. 

Lurker this is fake news. .. yes preseason is less stress .. but Zach will be playing with grocery clerks on the OL and at WR. (Assuming GW barely sees the field)

Please remember all the past Jets QBs that have been annihilated in the preseason. The talent around you matters.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Lurker this is fake news. .. yes preseason is less stress .. but Zach will be playing with grocery clerks on the OL and at WR. (Assuming GW barely sees the field)

Please remember all the past Jets QBs that have been annihilated in the preseason. The talent around you matters.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

What’s “fake news”? I was just giving an opinion on how this year’s preseason with extra reps can be helpful.