Who gets the most blame?

[BroadwayRay]

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

It's not a cop out. You're asking us to assign blame to a single person for a whole-organization disaster. I could give Woody the most blame for hiring JD, or JD for hiring Saleh, or Saleh for being a piece of crap. I could blame Zach for being a piece of crap, but he was far from the only problem. JD has also drafted and signed some really good players, and the defense is doing well. The issues cannot be assigned to one person, and the majority of it cannot be put on one person without exact knowledge of how the Jets operate their team to the tiniest details.

TL;DR it's a team issue, and pointless to assign blame to one person.

I said who deserves the most blame, not all the blame. 

[Hex]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Bob and no one else

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Who hired Saleh and drafted Zach?

[bonkertons]

6 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Maybe I’m just going insane but I don’t think Zach played that bad today even with 0 tds. Once again every time something got going there was a flag this team just isn’t disciplined. I don’t know whose fault it was. The coaching I guess 

Nah this is what we’ve been conditioned for though. When he moves the ball even slightly it’s like “well maybe we have something here”. I fell into this trap as well. In reality it means even when our QB plays “well” he’s still among the worst in the league. We’re just not gonna win games with that type of play at the QB position. 
 

Like, I get not wanting to throw in the towel on your 2nd overall pick investment. I really do. But ffs…what more do we need to see to know it’s not going to happen here?  There’s a chance our real QB could return this year, but it’s only possible if we stay afloat til then. Zach ain’t gonna keep us afloat. 

[tdoublee]

It all starts with JD. I don't think Woody is as involved with the current personnel decisions as some believe.

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[Hex]

Just now, BroadwayRay said:

I said who deserves the most blame, not all the blame. 

As I explained in that post, the majority of the blame cannot be put on one person without knowledge of how the Jets run their operations. Unless you can tell me how much Saleh is involved in team discipline, or who choses the starter at QB.

[Bleedin Green]

You know the real messed up part?  JD went out of his way to have everything he did this past offseason clearly designed to make this team nearly impossible to have a full house-cleaning this year, so it's entirely possible we have to deal with all of this for one more year with nothing to it but the Rodgers narrative.

[BurntDice]

2 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Nah this is what we’ve been conditioned for though. When he moves the ball even slightly it’s like “well maybe we have something here”. I fell into this trap as well. In reality it means even when our QB plays “well” he’s still among the worst in the league. We’re just not gonna win games with that type of play at the QB position. 
 

Like, I get not wanting to throw in the towel on your 2nd overall pick investment. I really do. But ffs…what more do we need to see to know it’s not going to happen here?  There’s a chance our real QB could return this year, but it’s only possible if we stay afloat til then. Zach ain’t gonna keep us afloat. 

Yea that’s where I’m at. I see things finally get moving and get excited then there’s a flag and kills the drive. I’m just so tired of losing year after year especially with teams like this where the games just aren’t exciting with barely any offense.

 

Throw in Simian and see what happens if only to spark the team 

[rex-n-effect]

This loss is on the coaches. The penalties crushed this team. Clock management didn't help. 

ZW had some bad plays but overall this was one of his better games. It looked worse because receivers were dropping balls in their hands. The receivers looked sloppy and that's on them but also speaks to the overall lack of discipline on the team.

This feels a lot like the post 2010 Rex Ryan years. Underwhelming QB play, lots of penalties, overall lack of discipline, poor time management, lots of field goals and a good defense that rarely creates turnovers.

I don't think Saleh is on the hot seat this year due to Rodgers's injury, but his future with the team is tied to how well the Rodgers experiment turns out and how much Rodgers can instill discipline in the team. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Who gets the most blame?

Zach

Who deserves the most blame? 

Not Zach

[Beerfish]

30 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

For me, it’s JD. 

See my thread about Douglas having the worst year for a gm in the last 30.

[Jetsfan80]

You Zach apologists will make every excuse in the book this week.

The truth of the matter:

* Still no TDs since the Giants game, and nearly 50 straight possessions starting in our own territory without a TD

* Can’t assume we’d automatically have gotten a TD or 2 if not for the refs

* Another awful statline tonight (23-39, 59 %, 263 yds, inexcusable INT, fumble)

* 4-5 (you guys want to credit him with the Ws have to eat the Ls too)

[jetspenguin]

30 minutes ago, Hex said:

Wouldn't have even been a thing if Zach hadn't thrown an INT.

uhhh....he has some amazing catches but he was dropping balls all night. of he has NO drops this game we win.

[Hex]

1 minute ago, jetspenguin said:

uhhh....he has some amazing catches but he was dropping balls all night. of he has NO drops this game we win.

Then we're at a crossroads, because either one of those things happen and the Jets win. And people get confused when I suggest that it's difficult to assign most of the blame to one person.

[jeremy2020]

[jetspenguin]

25 minutes ago, Hex said:

Then we're at a crossroads, because either one of those things happen and the Jets win. And people get confused when I suggest that it's difficult to assign most of the blame to one person.

Two things can be true at the same time.

[DoubleDown]

Complete lack of discipline.

Penalties. Drops.

It's the coaching. There is zero accountability. When the team beats itself moreso than the opponent beats them, the finger needs to be pointed squarely at the coaching.

[TuscanyTile2]

27 minutes ago, Hex said:

Then we're at a crossroads, because either one of those things happen and the Jets win. And people get confused when I suggest that it's difficult to assign most of the blame to one person.

We're at the precipice of an enormous crossroads.

[Beerfish]

It is Salehs fault for not activating Neters and Ramcens, what the hell is he waiting for?

[Jetsplayer21]

46 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

This loss is on the coaches. The penalties crushed this team. Clock management didn't help. 

ZW had some bad plays but overall this was one of his better games. It looked worse because receivers were dropping balls in their hands. The receivers looked sloppy and that's on them but also speaks to the overall lack of discipline on the team.

This feels a lot like the post 2010 Rex Ryan years. Underwhelming QB play, lots of penalties, overall lack of discipline, poor time management, lots of field goals and a good defense that rarely creates turnovers.

I don't think Saleh is on the hot seat this year due to Rodgers's injury, but his future with the team is tied to how well the Rodgers experiment turns out and how much Rodgers can instill discipline in the team. 

Mark sanchez threw 26 tds in 2011. It wasn’t a great season by mark, but compared to Zach it’s epic. Zach Wilson will never throw 10 tds in a season. Will always finish with more INTs than tds. 

[Jetsplayer21]

11 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

We're at the precipice of an enormous crossroads.

When Zach Wilson plays, it won’t be cinematic. 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

When Zach Wilson plays, it won’t be cinematic. 

Finally someone got the quote.  I had an entire thread about this before one of the games (possibly Philly, though not Philly Parise) and people were bewildered.

[rex-n-effect]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Mark sanchez threw 26 tds in 2011. It wasn’t a great season by mark, but compared to Zach it’s epic. Zach Wilson will never throw 10 tds in a season. Will always finish with more INTs than tds. 

Not sure what this has to do with what I said. 

[Jetsplayer21]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Finally someone got the quote.  I had an entire thread about this before one of the games (possibly Philly, though not Philly Parise) and people were bewildered.

Sopranos was legendary with quotes ha

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sopranos was legendary with quotes ha

Absolutely

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 hours ago, tdoublee said:

It all starts with JD. I don't think Woody is as involved with the current personnel decisions as some believe.

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Disagree completely.  Woody is absolutely involved in football decisions hence 14 years no playoff appearances 

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

When Zach Wilson plays, it won’t be cinematic. 

What a scene

 

[hawk]

At some point, the organization (Woody) needs to think about the other 52 players on this team, and more importantly, the fans that pay their salaries.  

[jamesr]

Depends on what we are assigning blame for.

Raiders game - Saleh. The whole "self inflicted" thing is a recurring theme and it is on him as HC to address that. The buck stops with him. Yes, players are accountable, but Saleh has to hold them accountable. Yes, that includes ZW, so he's not being absolved of it - but Saleh is the guy who has to hold every player to account.

Season as a whole - JD. Too many personnel decisions haven't worked out (injuries aside) and he is the guy responsible for that.

Woody MIGHT have interfered on some decisions but we don't know that as a fact, so I'll go with innocent until proven guilty on that front.

 

[GangGreened]

It’s Douglas

He’s not the answer. Another awful GM.

[Jetsplayer21]

5 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

What a scene

 

Did you know he has a doctorate and was a mathematics professor at NYU before, during , and after sopranos.  I pulled a sopranos line on him when I saw him out. Surprised him a bit.. Said he isn’t use to getting noticed. Real nice guy. 

[Jetsplayer21]

20 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Depends on what we are assigning blame for.

Raiders game - Saleh. The whole "self inflicted" thing is a recurring theme and it is on him as HC to address that. The buck stops with him. Yes, players are accountable, but Saleh has to hold them accountable. Yes, that includes ZW, so he's not being absolved of it - but Saleh is the guy who has to hold every player to account.

Season as a whole - JD. Too many personnel decisions haven't worked out (injuries aside) and he is the guy responsible for that.

Woody MIGHT have interfered on some decisions but we don't know that as a fact, so I'll go with innocent until proven guilty on that front.

 

JD is responsible for penalties. When you have such a bad O, guys who don’t belong on field, they are going to be committing penalties to try to compensate for their lack of ability. There are only 3 guys that belong on field on O. Tippman , Garrett and Breece

[Dunnie]

I have to say ... these poll results have reinstated my hope in Jets Nation. THOUGH .... there is a major omission ...

NATHANIEL 'GOLDMEMEBER' HACKETT

Edited November 13, 2023 by Dunnie

[heymangold]

9 hours ago, PS17 said:

Woody because it feels like he’s behind the Zach Wilson mandate that’s forced on all of us.

Joe Douglas a close second.

Saleh a close third.

Just an abomination on every level.

 

9 hours ago, jetsfan4life72 said:

Whoever decided to not bring in another QB once Rodgers went down.  Dobbs may have this team in the division winner talk.

 

9 hours ago, tdoublee said:

It all starts with JD. I don't think Woody is as involved with the current personnel decisions as some believe.

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woody seemed to be pretty vocal about being a QB away this past offseason.  seems like he was a proponent of sitting zach.  now the fact that he was allowed to be QB2 is probably an indictment on JD and Saleh - they don't want their #2 overall pick being benched and making them look worse then they already do.

[jamesr]

JD is responsible for penalties. When you have such a bad O, guys who don’t belong on field, they are going to be committing penalties to try to compensate for their lack of ability. There are only 3 guys that belong on field on O. Tippman , Garrett and Breece

I disagree - no player who suits up to play in the NFL should have any excuse for committing penalties routinely. Penalties can always be corrected - any player can either be taught how not to commit them, or get benched and replaced. I have not seen one instance yet with Saleh of players being held accountable.


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[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, jamesr said:

I disagree - no player who suits up to play in the NFL should have any excuse for committing penalties routinely. Penalties can always be corrected - any player can either be taught how not to commit them, or get benched and replaced. I have not seen one instance yet with Saleh of players being held accountable.


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I Agree there. But as back to my original point, these are not NFL starters, maybe not even on a bench elsewhere. Besides on jets playing for Joe Douglas, worst gm in NFL. Woody definitely cannot trust him drafting another qb, and he has failed to do his prime job he was hired to do. Fix the OL.