Jets 2024 OLine

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Some big questions that need to be answered, some as early as the end of this season.

The only easy answer appears to be Tippmann at Center.

1. LT:  Do we commit long term to Becton?  I would argue that the $20M price of a franchise tag will be cost prohibitive given how much help we need on offense ..  alternatively we can use the transition tag and hope another team doesn’t sign him but that is a huge gamble in itself.

2. LG:  Do we cut Laken Tomlinson?  A huge disappointment as one of the NFL’s highest paid guards (outside of staying healthy).  $19M cap charge; $11M dead money if released.

(I cut him because he’s not good and we might find a quality upgrade with possibly less than the $8M we save by releasing him.)

3. RG:  Do we commit to AVT at Guard, no longer using him as an OT contingency plan?  Do we move him back to LG?

I move him back to the premium LG position and keep him there.

4. RT:  Is Max Mitchell a viable option?  He’s been down and now up after his best game as a Pro.  Are the lights turning on after coming back from health issues?  He’s got great feet but can he get stronger?

————————————————————-

[bitonti]

The word on the Twitter is that Becton doesn't want to return. So we're talking about is he worth it and he's trying to get the hell away from this terrible franchise 

 

[#27TheDominator]

I understand your rationale between each point and probably disagree with most. 

At LT I think that they probably do something to keep Becton just to have some stability and because they require so much else.  Adding more uncertainty by letting him walk without a replacement seems a bit much.

I think Tomlinson has quietly been better than most of the board.  He has been durable which has been our main problem across the board.  I think dumping him this offseason costs like $11M dead money.  I don't see it and again it would just add more uncertainty.  

Agree that Tippman should be the C.  I'd like another versatile guy like Schweitzer or Colon was going to be to back him up.  If McGovern is actually that cheap, maybe carry him again.

I leave AVT at RG.  I know he was at LG as a rook, but I have already pointed out why I expect to keep Tomlinson and I see some stability as good. 

I like MItchell, but I am not accepting him as starting RT.  My basic plan is to run it back and hopefully add a true starter level T.  A fairly high draft pick that can play RT for a year and then maybe move to LT if/when they let Becton walk in 2025.  Maybe a Fant in 2019 level FA.  If Mitchell can beat that guy out?  Cool. 

[peebag]

We are so hosed for the next 3 years

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

My 2024 OL

LT = Upgrade via FA (eg, less injury risk) or Becton on 1-2 year incentive laden deal.  I don’t want a rookie protecting Rodger’s blind side 

LG = AVT.  He moves back & stays there and we look to answer this year whether Mitchell can be a mid/top tier Swing Tackle

C Tippmann

RG = Free agent.  Still save on 2024 cap by cutting Tomlinson.  Mid tier starting guard makes on average $4M per year

RT = Round 1.  Could switch to LT longer term

Swing Tackle = Mitchell (if he can use the Raiders game as a springboard) + Warren.  Otherwise, can we bring in a Fant type free agent?

Swing Interior = Schweitzer + a 3rd or 4th rounder

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I understand your rationale between each point and probably disagree with most. 

At LT I think that they probably do something to keep Becton just to have some stability and because they require so much else.  Adding more uncertainty by letting him walk without a replacement seems a bit much.

I think Tomlinson has quietly been better than most of the board.  He has been durable which has been our main problem across the board.  I think dumping him this offseason costs like $11M dead money.  I don't see it and again it would just add more uncertainty.  

Agree that Tippman should be the C.  I'd like another versatile guy like Schweitzer or Colon was going to be to back him up.  If McGovern is actually that cheap, maybe carry him again.

I leave AVT at RG.  I know he was at LG as a rook, but I have already pointed out why I expect to keep Tomlinson and I see some stability as good. 

I like MItchell, but I am not accepting him as starting RT.  My basic plan is to run it back and hopefully add a true starter level T.  A fairly high draft pick that can play RT for a year and then maybe move to LT if/when they let Becton walk in 2025.  Maybe a Fant in 2019 level FA.  If Mitchell can beat that guy out?  Cool. 

I upgrade Becton in FA.

Agree on Center, RT and Mitchell as the swing tackle.  Agree AVT should be one of the guards.

Tomlinson is on track to let up 10 sacks as an interior lineman.  That’s really bad!  He ‘used’ to be a really good run blocker.  We can upgrade and save money at the same time.  That’s actually a pretty easy decision.

[Jetsplayer21]

Do we just JD to ignore the D for once and put almost all attention into building up neglected OL, and finding at least 1 more dependable receiver. Can see him picking a line backer in the first round if he is just barely ahead of a OT on his “ best player available “ chart.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

My 2024 OL

LT = Upgrade via FA (eg, less injury risk) or Becton on 1-2 year incentive laden deal.  I don’t want a rookie protecting Rodger’s blind side 

LG = AVT.  He moves back & stays there and we look to answer this year whether Mitchell can be a mid/top tier Swing Tackle

C Tippmann

RG = Free agent.  Still save on 2024 cap by cutting Tomlinson.  Mid tier starting guard makes on average $4M per year

RT = Round 1.  Could switch to LT longer term

Swing Tackle = Mitchell (if he can use the Raiders game as a springboard) + Warren.  Otherwise, can we bring in a Fant type free agent?

Swing Interior = Schweitzer + a 3rd or 4th rounder

Seems way overboard to me.  Becton isn't signing an incentive laden deal and they can't afford a top tier FA LT, if there even are any.  You are literally talking about reliving 2020.  Starting guards make $4M?  You want me to name some starting guards?  Greg Van Roten, Trystan Colon, Nate Herbig.   I am not looking to relive those storied days. 

I firmly believe this line is considerably better than the board rates.  Get things rolling and they will suddenly be a strength.  They were last year for that run when they were riding Breece and Cederic Ogbuehi was starting RT for some of those games.  You are looking to replace half the line and guys you are keeping are among the most injury prone, so I don't see what is solved. 

[NYJCAP2]

The off-season is long enough to talk this, no?

But Saleh is right about one thing. There are not enough OL to go around, so I don’t know why’d you cut one who plays better than good every snap.

To answer your question, keep the interior. It’s fine. Lake, Tipp, AVT.

Sign 1 and draft 1 OT.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Has Tomlinson really been all that bad this year? I thought he's been doing better. Pressure seems to be coming from Becton and RG (which is 4th string right now). 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Do we just JD to ignore the D for once and put almost all attention into building up neglected OL, and finding at least 1 more dependable receiver. Can see him picking a line backer in the first round if he is just barely ahead of a OT on his “ best player available “ chart.

Aside from resigning maybe 2-3 guys on defense, they really don't need to touch that side. 

[dbatesman]

Week 1 it’ll be Bakhtiari - Tomlinson - Tippman - ludicrously overpaid FA - AVT. The real question is what it will be in week 6, after Bakhtiari retires because his kneecaps fell off and AVT is out for the season with gigantism after drinking a brain and nerve tonic Rodgers recommended

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Seems way overboard to me.  Becton isn't signing an incentive laden deal and they can't afford a top tier FA LT, if there even are any.  You are literally talking about reliving 2020.  Starting guards make $4M?  You want me to name some starting guards?  Greg Van Roten, Trystan Colon, Nate Herbig.   I am not looking to relive those storied days. 

I firmly believe this line is considerably better than the board rates.  Get things rolling and they will suddenly be a strength.  They were last year for that run when they were riding Breece and Cederic Ogbuehi was starting RT for some of those games.  You are looking to replace half the line and guys you are keeping are among the most injury prone, so I don't see what is solved. 

I didn’t say top tier Left Tackle.  I said an upgrade from Becton, even if it’s from a durability standpoint.

Franchise tags are $20M per year, we can actually save cap in 2024 with the right contract structure for a free agent.

I’ll go back and look at last year’s signees to see what an upgrade and cost might look like.

As for Tomlinson, he’s a below average starting guard making top tier guard money.

Maybe someone has advanced stats on pressure rate and running grade.

To upgrade Becton and Tomlinson while saving money and then using our first rounder does not seem overboard to me.  Kudos to Becton for staying healthy and doing a good job this year.  I just see too much risk signing him to a long term deal.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Week 1 it’ll be Bakhtiari - Tomlinson - Tippman - ludicrously overpaid FA - AVT. The real question is what it will be in week 6, after Bakhtiari retires because his kneecaps fell off and AVT is out for the season with gigantism after drinking a brain and nerve tonic Rodgers recommended

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

12 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Has Tomlinson really been all that bad this year? I thought he's been doing better. Pressure seems to be coming from Becton and RG (which is 4th string right now). 

I think he’s horrible ;).  We might be inflating him because he can actually stay on the field.  As with many things, I reserve the right to be wrong.

He is also very expensive for what we are getting in return.  

[David Harris]

The line is a mess.  I think Becton walks.  He ruined his time here but being immature he blames the team and not himself.  LT's are rare and he'll get paid somewhere else even if JD tries to resign him. 

Tomlinson is bad, the only good thing is he is durable.  

Mitchell is a liability at RT.

That leaves only injury prone AVT and Tippmann as 2024 starters that I like.  I'm still rankled about Broderick Jones, I know he isn't playing well but he's a body with upside.  That pick swap has pissed me off since it was announced - think it could've gotten done without caving on that.  Everything around AR has blown up in JD's face.  The pick swap, all the AR free agent friends, and of course AR's achilles.  Only the Jets.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, David Harris said:

 Everything around AR has blown up in JD's face.  The pick swap, all the AR free agent friends, and of course AR's achilles.  Only the Jets.

Yep!

[bitonti]

25 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I upgrade Becton in FA.

Starting left tackles rarely make it to fa

The Jets tried to sign Orlando brown last year even offered him more money than cincy and he said no

At a certain point we should consider why would anyone want to sign here? When they have other options. To play with the great Zach wilson? 

[frankiepapa]

Watching games around the league.. and maybe this is a product of injuries but you see a few of our linemen starting other places, Fant, Van Roten, Edoga.. even Moses was starting...

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Hex]

56 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The word on the Twitter is that Becton doesn't want to return. So we're talking about is he worth it and he's trying to get the hell away from this terrible franchise 

 

Is this just chatter or is there an insider source?

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Hex said:

Is this just chatter or is there an insider source?

I think it was one of the beaters I'll try to dig it up

Look at this from Bectons perspective he gets hurt by Greg van roten rolling around 

The coaches call him out publicly (while they kiss Zachs ass) 

They make him 4th string, 3rd string, then right tackle he fights his way all the way back to starting left tackle and the team still eats ass 

If I were him I'd take the 20 plus million from another team and move on. The jd Saleh regime treats him worse than a dog 

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

This thread is unnecessary we just signed Austin Deculus OL from the Texans! 

I know what you're thinking . . . we keep bringing in a new OL every week and our OL is still a disaster . . . so Austin Decelus might not solve all of our OL problems . . . OK I'm back to wanting to keep this thread going again!

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Starting left tackles rarely make it to fa

The Jets tried to sign Orlando brown last year even offered him more money than cincy and he said no

At a certain point we should consider why would anyone want to sign here? When they have other options. To play with the great Zach wilson? 

I know … that’s going to have to be part of the evaluation.  Or cause us to use our first rounder there and sign a starting RT.

$20M franchise for Becton might be cost prohibitive when we need to resign Huff, possibly acquire a Devante Adams or Mike Evans and upgrade other offensive positions.

Signing Becton long term is a gamble I would not take unless there were safeguards built in.  

 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Aside from resigning maybe 2-3 guys on defense, they really don't need to touch that side. 

Yes, and the mentality has to be those 2-3 or whatever come AFTER OL issues and WR

[Adoni Beast]

Tippmann - Keep at center and don't mess with it

AVT - I've been the biggest proponent of him moving to RT full time the last 2 season, where he got injured both times. I am off that wagon now and accept that he should stay at RG

Lake - ain't going anywhere with that cap hit. He'll be back, but his eventual replacement should be drafted 

Becton - Do not want him on a long-term deal. He's been fine post-injury but I don't trust his maturity and long-term effort. Franchise tag and draft his replacement 

Brown / Mitchell - Brown is retiring + Mitchell has been playing better after a rough start (coming off an injury) but I can't feel comfortable with him yet as a long term solution. Will probably need to sign a vet who will compete with him in camp.

 

[Ken Schroy]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The word on the Twitter is that Becton doesn't want to return. So we're talking about is he worth it and he's trying to get the hell away from this terrible franchise 

 

Yes, he needs to go prosper on someone elses injured list.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I understand your rationale between each point and probably disagree with most. 

At LT I think that they probably do something to keep Becton just to have some stability and because they require so much else.  Adding more uncertainty by letting him walk without a replacement seems a bit much.

I think Tomlinson has quietly been better than most of the board.  He has been durable which has been our main problem across the board.  I think dumping him this offseason costs like $11M dead money.  I don't see it and again it would just add more uncertainty.  

Agree that Tippman should be the C.  I'd like another versatile guy like Schweitzer or Colon was going to be to back him up.  If McGovern is actually that cheap, maybe carry him again.

I leave AVT at RG.  I know he was at LG as a rook, but I have already pointed out why I expect to keep Tomlinson and I see some stability as good. 

I like MItchell, but I am not accepting him as starting RT.  My basic plan is to run it back and hopefully add a true starter level T.  A fairly high draft pick that can play RT for a year and then maybe move to LT if/when they let Becton walk in 2025.  Maybe a Fant in 2019 level FA.  If Mitchell can beat that guy out?  Cool. 

The dead money is the same whether he's kept or cut because of the restructure they did this season to push his '23 money to '24 (if not '24+). The only question is whether or not they want to add an additional $13MM to that total.

There's an x-factor not yet...well, factored, because he hasn't played yet this season, and that's Saffold (though he turns 35 in June). Either way - Tomlinson or Saffold - they're probably still looking for a replacement guard in '25 anyway. 

There are some 30-something tackles that have been good enough to start this year. Fant (though it's doubtful he'd want to return); Donovan Smith (won't get away with those JJII holding plays when he's wearing green & white instead); in theory Tyron Smith, but can't see Dallas just letting him go even as he turns 35 (if anything it'll just make him cheaper to retain); Chris Hubbard ... anyway I think a combo of a high pick rookie + Mitchell + one of those should yield a good-enough duo. 

I'm fine letting Becton walk. If he makes it through this season he'll get a big enough contract to yield at worst a 4th round comp pick in '25, if not a 3rd, and based on the size of the contract he gets elsewhere they could pay it forward by trading our natural 3rd in 2025 for an extra 4th in '24 (or trade that to bump a mid-rounder by half a round in '24); depends how the pool looks at the time. 

Then there's always the other bag-on-head move, which is they'll pick up another Rodgers buddy and pay $17-20MM to Bakhtiari so he can make 3 healthy starts in '24 before he goes on IR on his 33rd birthday. 

Agree on moving AVT back to guard, and I don't particularly care which side.

This year's 4th (Warren) I think they have to predict zero production/value, and if he surprises with a giant leap forward then bully for us. 

Expectations:

- Bakhtiari

- Tomlinson

- Tippmann

- AVT

- Mitchell backing up 1st round rookie tackle, who'll then move to LT after Bakhtiari goes on IR, thus promoting Mitchell back to starter.

TBH I'm fine with Mitchell starting myself, as he should only continue to improve in y3. I just worry more about him holding up over a full season. Then again I worry about that from almost everyone. 

[AFJF]

Has any Jets draft pick ever been written off faster than Carter Warren?

[Barry McCockinner]

4 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Do we just JD to ignore the D for once and put almost all attention into building up neglected OL, and finding at least 1 more dependable receiver. Can see him picking a line backer in the first round if he is just barely ahead of a OT on his “ best player available “ chart.

how has JD neglected the OL?

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Has any Jets draft pick ever been written off faster than Carter Warren?

Yeah.  It's kind of funny, but I the board expects more out of Kuntz than Carter Warren even though one is an unpoached practice squad player and the other has been rostered all along.  

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

how has JD neglected the OL?

He hasn't.  At all.  But if you hear/see something said/written enough times, it becomes the truth.

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The dead money is the same whether he's kept or cut because of the restructure they did this season to push his '23 money to '24 (if not '24+). The only question is whether or not they want to add an additional $13MM to that total.

There's an x-factor not yet...well, factored, because he hasn't played yet this season, and that's Saffold (though he turns 35 in June). Either way - Tomlinson or Saffold - they're probably still looking for a replacement guard in '25 anyway. 

There are some 30-something tackles that have been good enough to start this year. Fant (though it's doubtful he'd want to return); Donovan Smith (won't get away with those JJII holding plays when he's wearing green & white instead); in theory Tyron Smith, but can't see Dallas just letting him go even as he turns 35 (if anything it'll just make him cheaper to retain); Chris Hubbard ... anyway I think a combo of a high pick rookie + Mitchell + one of those should yield a good-enough duo. 

I'm fine letting Becton walk. If he makes it through this season he'll get a big enough contract to yield at worst a 4th round comp pick in '25, if not a 3rd, and based on the size of the contract he gets elsewhere they could pay it forward by trading our natural 3rd in 2025 for an extra 4th in '24 (or trade that to bump a mid-rounder by half a round in '24); depends how the pool looks at the time. 

Then there's always the other bag-on-head move, which is they'll pick up another Rodgers buddy and pay $17-20MM to Bakhtiari so he can make 3 healthy starts in '24 before he goes on IR on his 33rd birthday. 

Agree on moving AVT back to guard, and I don't particularly care which side.

This year's 4th (Warren) I think they have to predict zero production/value, and if he surprises with a giant leap forward then bully for us. 

Expectations:

- Bakhtiari

- Tomlinson

- Tippmann

- AVT

- Mitchell backing up 1st round rookie tackle, who'll then move to LT after Bakhtiari goes on IR, thus promoting Mitchell back to starter.

TBH I'm fine with Mitchell starting myself, as he should only continue to improve in y3. I just worry more about him holding up over a full season. Then again I worry about that from almost everyone. 

Yeah.  I can kind of see this.  It isn't so much that I want to keep all those guys, but I don't think it is wise to plan on redoing the entire offensive line.  I am not sure about tagging Becton.  Generally I am against, but I'd make him an offer that would have to take a solid comp pick to beat.  I like Mitchell and expect him to see the field, but he is the kind of guy that you bring in competition for and make him beat them out.  I don't like getting ro the draft thinking I need to find a starter at some position which means at least a Fant/Turner/Kelly level guy to compete with Mitchell.  Preferably considerably better than the last two.

[Jetsplayer21]

16 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

how has JD neglected the OL?

Since the answer is not

A) neglected the OL.

It has to be

 

B ) Joe Douglas is a piss poor gm, especially when it comes to building a OL. Since his is consistently bottom of the NFL. 

 

There are no other options.

[BCJet]

We dont need to commit long term to Becton but we also dont need to let him walk, we can easily franchise him and at least HOPEFULLY solve one of the OT spots.

I really dont care if he doesnt want to be here, thats not the way this works and if he wants any chance of a big, long term deal, then he will have to stay healthy and in shape for 2024.  Otherwise he doesnt get paid and we only risk one season of money.

I also really hate the fact that we could be completely forced into taking an OT in a draft where the rare situation of finding a real QB outside of the top 10 is possible. Even with the rumor of Ewers staying there are 4 legit round 1 QBs in Maye, Caleb, JJ McCarthy, and Nix (and that is not even counting Daniels or Pennix).  While 3 will definitely be gone, it would be nice to be able to use a pick in the 12-18 range on someone to sit behind Rogers and develop in the way he was.  That to me, is far more important then finding an OT.  

 

[Barry McCockinner]

15 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Since the answer is not

A) neglected the OL.

It has to be

 

B ) Joe Douglas is a piss poor gm, especially when it comes to building a OL. Since his is consistently bottom of the NFL. 

 

There are no other options.

c) the Jets have been very unlucky with the number of injuries they've had on the o-line the last 2 seasons. 

This season we've seen snaps from our 4th string C, G & T. No team is prepared to deal with that. It's just a sh*t situation.

You didn't answer the question. How has he "neglected" the o-line? He has poured a ton of resources into it. Is he supposed to draft a T in the first round every year?