Is Woody willing to truly invest in football operations?

[jetsruinedmylifeandhealth]

It's always irritated me that even when we have had right people in the right places we inevitably, inexcusably let them walk (or not even identify their value). We hold on to hopeless situations far too long as well.

At one point in the post Parcells years, when he truly rebuilt this franchise from the ground up and inserted the right people in the right places everywhere...the Jets were actually a decent, quality and (somewhat) respected franchise. From 1997-2015. There were some good years, some close calls (plenty of bad luck) but the down stretches didnt last very long. We drafted competently. We were disciplined. We had a good player personnel dept. The franchise wasnt some circus laughingstock. We made the playoffs in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010 won playoff games...we had winning or .500 seasons in years where they didnt qualify...1999, 2000, 2008 (despite playing in the same division as an all time juggernaut).

Slowly over time that got eroded. Why did we not retain Bill Callahan who was so instrumental to our success during the early Rex period. Same with Westhoff...Woody shouldve done everything he can to make sure he remained post 2012 (he retired and has since come back into the league). 

When we fired Rex Ryan, we knew at the very least we had a coach who if you give him even an average QB (Sanchez was well below that) you could win with him. You dont fire him for a ? like Bowles...you fire him for a sure thing no doubt upgrade who could get the team to a level Rex couldnt. A Harbaugh type, a Cowher, an Andy Reid. A true top coach. Instead Bowles turned into Gase which turned into Saleh...for years now this team has been poorly coached, sloppy, and mistake prone. I mean say what you will about Herm Edwards but that team never turned the ball over and they were disciplined. That's long gone.

Since 2012 or so Woody needed to go out, spend the big $$$ if need be and have brought in a true respected top head of football operations and given him a blank check to hire the best available NFL coach he can find. Spend the money and build a scouting department that rivals the league's best. Make sure good assistants are retained (sometimes they'll leave to be HC's...that you can't do anything about.) 

You dont waste your time with the Maccagnans or Bowles or Idzik's or Saleh's or Gases of the world and just hope they work out (Douglas soon to join that list) first time GM's, first time coaches and executives with thin resumes. 

 

[Dcat]

I agree 100%. 

Two problems though. 

1.  When it comes to his coaches and staff, Woody is a cheap mother fkr.  Always rookie HCs (who are paid millions less) and rookie GMs.  Always. He may be willing to spend on players, but not on the coaching staff.  

2. No quality veteran HC or GM wants to work for this meddling schmuck of an owner we are stuck with.  So, even if Woody tried to get one, he'd have to pay even more than the market price.  And he's not even willing to pay that.

For us to expect improvement while this imbecile is still alive and involved in every facet of operations is just a hopeless dream.  

 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[JetPotato]

The answer is simply NO.

Woody has never had to build anything. He is of the mindset that success will come to him, because that is what defines him as a person. He's never had to work or earn anything, ever.

The people that have the kind of wealth he has that earned it on their own have learned throughout the process of getting there that you need good people in place to make up for your own deficiencies. He's the opposite. He believes he is where he is because of some acumen of his own that doesn't actually exist.

As long a Woody (and presumably his idiot son) own this team, the Jets will never be a legitimate football organization.

[Matt39]

Define investing in the football operation. He’s never going to pay for a Harbaugh. The one guy who was capable of running the entire ship was Mangini and he got fired for trying to do it.

[Trotter]

21 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

The answer is simply NO.

Woody has never had to build anything. He is of the mindset that success will come to him, because that is what defines him as a person. He's never had to work or earn anything, ever.

The people that have the kind of wealth he has that earned it on their own have learned throughout the process of getting there that you need good people in place to make up for your own deficiencies. He's the opposite. He believes he is where he is because of some acumen of his own that doesn't actually exist.

As long a Woody (and presumably his idiot son) own this team, the Jets will never be a legitimate football organization.

and if I could add he doesn't understand fundamentals.

With enough pressure he will go out and hire a director of football operations. Problem is he wont do the necessary work to understand what problem is he trying to fix and get the right person to do it

he will hire a consultant or someone in the org and simply ask - ok who do i need and then go hire. It is the easy way out without having to stretch his brain.

i compare it to owning a home and you need new hvac, roof and other fundamental mtce items - lets say 50k. The smart way is address those things that will continue to cause problems in the home. Instead of 50k on non flashy items, homeowner decides money is better spent on shiny new applicances and fancy up the kitchen so others will notice..

I typically defend Woody but this part of him will never change hence the Jets merry go round continues 

[joewilly12]

Doesn’t seem to be. If he hasn’t learned by now not likely. 

[TuscanyTile2]

33 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Define investing in the football operation. He’s never going to pay for a Harbaugh. The one guy who was capable of running the entire ship was Mangini and he got fired for trying to do it.

Well he's still available to be hired!

[mrcoops]

37 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Define investing in the football operation. He’s never going to pay for a Harbaugh. The one guy who was capable of running the entire ship was Mangini and he got fired for trying to do it.

Mangini was absolutely the best big-picture guy the team has found in recent years. He built a very strong foundation that Rex benefitted from.

And Woody forced Favre on him with the promise Mangini wouldn't carry the can if it didn't work out, then fired Mangini anyway after Favre's arm fell off from too much snapping dick pix to send to team employees.

[Kleckineau]

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

 

 

[Kleckineau]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Define investing in the football operation. He’s never going to pay for a Harbaugh. The one guy who was capable of running the entire ship was Mangini and he got fired for trying to do it.

Even if he was willing to pay, Harbaugh is too smart to come work for Johnson. He would realize the career and reputation he has built over time would be ruined in 3 years or less

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

[bitonti]

Why should woody do anything? The Jets get paid for the attempt 

Not the win 

[jago]

11 hours ago, jetsruinedmylifeandhealth said:

spend the big $$$ if need be and have brought in a true respected top head of football operations and given him a blank check to hire the best available NFL coach he can find. Spend the money and build a scouting department that rivals the league's best. Make sure good assistants are retained (sometimes they'll leave to be HC's...that you can't do anything about.) 

 

 

we all have this dream every 2.5 years.

[section314]

11 hours ago, Dcat said:

I agree 100%. 

Two problems though. 

1.  When it comes to his coaches and staff, Woody is a cheap mother fkr.  Always rookie HCs (who are paid millions less) and rookie GMs.  Always. He may be willing to spend on players, but not on the coaching staff.  

2. No quality veteran HC or GM wants to work for this meddling schmuck of an owner we are stuck with.  So, even if Woody tried to get one, he'd have to pay even more than the market price.  And he's not even willing to pay that.

For us to expect improvement while this imbecile is still alive and involved in every facet of operations is just a hopeless dream.  

 

The first sentence of point# 2  was, is and always will be the answer until this dope is gone. The top shelf guys won’t take his call and we will always be relegated to first  timers looking for their shot. And even those guys are starting to avoid the Woody disease too.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Why should woody do anything? The Jets get paid for the attempt 

Not the win 

This - until something affects the financial bottom line, its business as usual 

[JetPotato]

6 minutes ago, section314 said:

The first sentence of point# 2  was, is and always will be the answer until this dope is gone. The top shelf guys won’t take his call and we will always be relegated to first  timers looking for their shot. And even those guys are starting to avoid the Woody disease too.

These are EASILY fixable issues. Woody is just too stubborn and/or stupid to implement the 2 changes in himself that it requires.

1) Shut up

2) Pay up

Like most nepo babies though, he has less than zero self-awareness

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, peebag said:

This - until something affects the financial bottom line, its business as usual 

Green Bay took an insurance policy on Aaron Rodgers getting hurt for the last 10 years. It would pay the team the amount Rodgers gets paid. It doesn't do much for cap but it helps in a worst case scenario 

the Jets took Rodgers and declined the policy. But don't worry, he raised ticket prices so he's getting that money regardless

That's Woody's operation in a nutshell

"Penny wise and Pound foolish" 

[varjet]

From what we see:

• Woody ponied up for 1/2 of an overpriced by still expensive stadium.
• Woody invested in team facility in Florham Park that I believe is one of the best such facilities in the NFL.  
• Woody generally hires first time HCs and GMs who we know are cheaper than more experienced candidates.
  • The proof will be when Mike McCarthy is available next year.  He is not perfect, but like last time, would be an improvement.  Woody will pass on him.
• Woody appears to skimp on medical, strength and training people.
• Our scouts and player personnel people are the same people that have been producing sub-par results for a decade, if not longer.  
• I have no doubt that his on analytics, etc. is toward the bottom of the NFL.
• Our stadium has a turf considered one of the worst.
• There is no question that Woody put the brakes at signing a better QB2 because of the money he already invested in AR8 and QW1.

So, Woody does spend more money than we all have.  But he still does not spend enough.  The required spend to have a successful NFL team is not capped at what you want to spend-it is what is required to get the job done.

The irony is that if Woody spend, let's say another $10mm/year on the above items (probably close to what he needs to spend), the team will be much better, more Jet fans will go to the stadium, buy more food and drink, buy more jerseys, etc. and likely return that investment in mulitiples. 

Woody's approach is not only frustrating to the fans, it is bad business. 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

From what we see:

• Woody ponied up for 1/2 of an overpriced by still expensive stadium.
• Woody invested in team facility in Florham Park that I believe is one of the best such facilities in the NFL.  
• Woody generally hires first time HCs and GMs who we know are cheaper than more experienced candidates.
  • The proof will be when Mike McCarthy is available next year.  He is not perfect, but like last time, would be an improvement.  Woody will pass on him.
• Woody appears to skimp on medical, strength and training people.
• Our scouts and player personnel people are the same people that have been producing sub-par results for a decade, if not longer.  
• I have no doubt that his on analytics, etc. is toward the bottom of the NFL.
• Our stadium has a turf considered one of the worst.
• There is no question that Woody put the brakes at signing a better QB2 because of the money he already invested in AR8 and QW1.

So, Woody does spend more money than we all have.  But he still does not spend enough.  The required spend to have a successful NFL team is not capped at what you want to spend-it is what is required to get the job done.

The irony is that if Woody spend, let's say another $10mm/year on the above items (probably close to what he needs to spend), the team will be much better, more Jet fans will go to the stadium, buy more food and drink, buy more jerseys, etc. and likely return that investment in mulitiples. 

Woody's approach is not only frustrating to the fans, it is bad business. 

The green GM’s and coaches are for him to have a say in the personnel. Funds dedicated to assistants, analytics etc I’m sure are on par with other teams. The scouting dept remains in tact because we hire guys who don’t have the rep or chops to build or identify a staff. 

[Larz]

 

JD negotiated a huge spending increase in the front office and scouting department when he was hired. 
 

He had a transitional assistant GM get him started.

Apparently that has been forgotten 

[Larz]

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — Joe Douglas filled out his front office staff with some familiar faces who have plenty of NFL experience.

The New York Jets general manager hired Rex Hogan as the team's assistant GM, Chad Alexander as director of player personnel, Phil Savage as senior football adviser and Chris Nolan as a college scout.

The team also announced Wednesday that Douglas promoted Greg Nejmeh to director of pro personnel, Dan Zbojovsky to director of personnel operations and Kevin Murphy to assistant director of pro scouting.

Savage is a longtime NFL executive who has worked in the front offices of Baltimore — where he spent five years with Douglas — Cleveland and Philadelphia. Savage was the Browns' general manager from 2005-08, his second stint with the team. He was also the executive director of the Senior Bowl from 2012-18 and general manager of the Arizona Hotshots of the Alliance of American Football.

 

 

Rodgers got hurt.  The oline was a mess. Bringing Savage back won’t change that 

 

[varjet]

14 minutes ago, Larz said:

 

JD negotiated a huge spending increase in the front office and scouting department when he was hired. 
 

He had a transitional assistant GM get him started.

Apparently that has been forgotten 

We did the analysis and the vast majority of the scouting department was hired prior to Douglas. 

He did bring in Hogan and Alexander.

There is one fact that is abundantly clear and I believe is supported by data-the Jets, over the past 10+ years, have underachieved in their drafting.  That was before and during the JD Era.   That could be explained in part by the personnel who have not changed.

But as we have also seen, "drafting" is often the work of the assistant coaches, who know what to look for, and who then develop the players.  The Jets on the defensive side have been much better at drafting and developing players. That is why JD/Saleh have basically built a top 10 defense.  On offense the coaching is terrible.  Bad coaches plus bad scouts = bad offense.  

[rangerous]

I think all of this talk about being cheap really needs to be put in the context of what other teams spend on coaches, front office etc.  I think people assume he doesn’t pay much but that didn’t make him shy away from paying Rodgers so much.  Are those numbers out there?  And keep in mind the cost of living is far greater here than say Tennessee or Jacksonville or Kansas City. The hit the football players take due to cost of living is huge but it also impacts the coaches and other front office people.

[TBJ]

[AL047]

There is a reason why Bill Parcells left this team and the same goes for Bill Belicheck??? I always believed it has something to do with owner Woody Johnson!!! 

Since then, Woody has been in one way meddling in the teams' affairs and all to make money by selling PSLs. The GM and coach have a plan to build this team and Woody comes in making his demands.

1) QB Bret Favre trade (previously mentioned)

2) QB Tim Tebow trade

3) Signing CB Darrel Revis after he won a Super Bowl with the Patriots.

4) Signed Offensive Coordinator Hackett to convince Rodgers to sign with Jets

5) Signed WR Lazard and Cobb to convince Rodgers to sign with Jets

6) QB Aaron Rodgers trade

All those moves were made because Woody wanted it and the team never went to the playoffs. His meddling doesn't help the GM, head coach or the team it, setback this the organization from moving forward. Right now, the team has been setback because the team has no future QB moving forward. They have a QB who is a two-year rental after that those two years are up its back to rebuilding and finding a new QB. 

Woody Johnson will never hire an experienced head coach like a Harbaugh. He will hire coordinators with no head coaching experience at all. He is hoping to find one that can win ASAP, so he can exploit it and sell PSLs at the same time. For Woody it's all about making money.