Trade value for Zach Wilson? “A two week stay at a Best Western”

[83Kelly2Allen18]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Put me down for a 5th rounder. If I win you take me to red lobster.

Texas Roadhouse 

[Pac]

13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Put me down for a 5th rounder. If I win you take me to red lobster.

If I'm taking you to the RL we're gonna need to stop at Kohls first to get you some good clothes.

[JetsFanatic]

JD got great deals for Darnold and Adams. If there is any value for Wilson, good chance the Jets squeeze it out.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

A two week stay at Best Western? Will they be throwing in the continent breakfasts as well?

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

A two week stay at Best Western? Will they be throwing in the continent breakfasts as well?

Stale Bagels and a few cigarette stubs only, sorry.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Stale Bagels and a few cigarette stubs only, sorry.

How about the little shampoos and bar soaps? 

[Warfish]

Just now, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

How about the little shampoos and bar soaps? 

Yes, but it has the previous guests pubes still on the bottle.  It IS a NJ Best Western, after all.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

JD was not a pillar of success prior to AR

But he was not thought of as being a total soft touch re trades, which he is now.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Yes, but it has the previous guests pubes still on the bottle.  It IS a NJ Best Western, after all.

A no tell motel on the NJ Turnpike. Love it!  Sounds as classy as the ones near my first apartment on Sepulveda Blvd here in the San Fernando Valley. If you know you know.

[Lupz27]

5 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

Zach Wilson is the biggest bust of my life time.

And Steve Young advocating for him to join the Rams, you know the team w/ the OC who was mean to him while he was here, is my favorite take of all time.  

The Jets are better off keeping him as their 3rd QB and let him sign as FA elsewhere and get the comp pick it will be better then what he is currently worth.

Jets will be in cap hell after next season and I highly doubt they will be making big signings after the 2024 season.

[Jetsplayer21]

42 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Put me down for a 5th rounder. If I win you take me to red lobster.

You have to clarify that bet. I can see a team giving up a 5th rounder for Zach. 
 

If the jets send back a 5th and 6th lol 

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

If you (and most fans) are on the side that JD is a good/above average GM it makes the Woody/Jet Blue "theory" more intriuging. JD is not McCagnan or Idzik. This team has talent from players chosen at the top, middle, end of the draft, and undrafted.  Even the high picks that havent panned out can easily be argued to bad luck injuries as opposed to choosing an often injured college player (see Dee Miliner). Looking at how badly Zach Wilson's career here pannned out (and your mentioned off field question marks) is it really so far fetched to believe Woody played a role in the Zach choice at #2? 

It's not far fetched to think the owner wants the #2 draft pick to work out and wants to give him more time to develop. 

It is far fetched to believe that decision was secretly made by an advertiser due to an attenuated relationship to the Wilson family as though one of the most visible franchises in sports couldn't replace that advertising partner with any number of other airlines, including the one actually ran by ZW's uncle. 

Unloading a high draft pick that didn't pan out right away is the exception, not the rule. The guaranteed rookie contracts for top picks makes it financially disadvantageous to unload those players before the rookie contract ends. Pair that with an owner with a reputation for keeping drafted clunkers and you have an explanation that doesn't require a secret handshake.

[Matt39]

32 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

It's not far fetched to think the owner wants the #2 draft pick to work out and wants to give him more time to develop. 

It is far fetched to believe that decision was secretly made by an advertiser due to an attenuated relationship to the Wilson family as though one of the most visible franchises in sports couldn't replace that advertising partner with any number of other airlines, including the one actually ran by ZW's uncle. 

Unloading a high draft pick that didn't pan out right away is the exception, not the rule. The guaranteed rookie contracts for top picks makes it financially disadvantageous to unload those players before the rookie contract ends. Pair that with an owner with a reputation for keeping drafted clunkers and you have an explanation that doesn't require a secret handshake.

I think it’s a combination of both. The personal relationship has definitely influenced this situation. Just Wilson’s commitment level alone/what was allowed by the organization (leaving during the byes, not spending off seasons in NJ) which are things expected from a quarterback top 3 pick. It’s a leadership position- either that was never communicated to Wilson or he didn’t feel like doing it and no one was going to ask because they all knew he had a direct line to the owner. Doubtful this would have been tolerated if he didn’t have the relationship with Woody.
 

Even this preseason when the Jets seemed more concerned with hiding him rather than giving him get reps to “develop.” His mom giving injury updates on social media contradicting the Jets report- all stuff that would not be tolerated from just anyone else. Not having to speak with reporters two years in a row on locker room clean out day. I mean this just doesn’t happen. Zach got special privileges will beyond just being the second overall pick. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

38 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

The Jets are better off keeping him as their 3rd QB and let him sign as FA elsewhere and get the comp pick it will be better then what he is currently worth.

Jets will be in cap hell after next season and I highly doubt they will be making big signings after the 2024 season.

This.

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

The Jets are better off keeping him as their 3rd QB and let him sign as FA elsewhere and get the comp pick it will be better then what he is currently worth.

Comp pick.

 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

A two week stay at Best Western? Will they be throwing in the continent breakfasts as well?

SIr, its called an "Incontinent Breakfast" at a Best Western

[Saul Goodman]

These takes are comical. Great offensive minds like Sean McVay and Andy Reid are dying to get their hands on this moldable piece of clay that is Zach Wilson. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

These takes are comical. Great offensive minds like Sean McVay and Andy Reid are dying to get their hands on this moldable piece of clay that is Zach Wilson. 

They'd take one look at Zach in practice and subsequently dial up PJ Walker's agent.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

A chartered plane isn't that big a deal actually.  Certainly not a sign of a conspiracy.

it's not a conspiracy. Conspiracies involve secrets

all the facts here are common knowledge 

we can quibble over the details until the end of time

look at Zach on the stage on draft night 

he looks out of place because he was out of place. 

He nepo-failed his way to the top of the draft. However you want to put it maybe Woody just likes Zach on a personal level because they are both useless. Maybe his family connects were as you maintain completely irrelevant to his NFL career

Bottom line this dude was overdrafted based on who he knew not what he was as a prospect

he didn't run he didn't lift he didn't test in any meaningful way to justify the pick. He had no signature wins, no Senior Bowl practices, nothing to make anyone (except the Jets) think he was this good of a draft pick 

the idea that other teams were interested was pure smoke from Team WIlson trying to go to a better franchise or maybe it was group think tied to the Jets taking him - but Wilson knew Woody was locked in at 2 from January, hence all the leaks  

the whole thing was a disaster from top to bottom if you want to believe the Jets just got unlucky fine - that's hanlon's razor and that's certainly one way to think about it 

either way the franchise screwed up this pick so badly and once the Rodgers effect is accounted for they are going to be digging out from under the zach mistake for the better part of a decade

 

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

Reminds me of the scene in The Good The Bad and The Ugly when Tuco manages to stumble into town after being left to slow bake in the desert by Blondie. Eli sticks his foot into the door and makes the old man show him all the guns and after a great scene he wags the gun between them and asks "How much?" and instead of a price for the weapon, the whiskey the sombrero and the leather strap the old man's "price" turns into how much he will pay Tuco (the Rat) for not killing him.  It's kinda like that how much did we have to give YOU for taking this PoFS no talent lump off of OUR hands and out of our lives as Jets fans?

it's ridiculous that the Jets are going to have to pay some other team to take Zach it's the final indignity 

[Bungaman]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Joe Douglas has lost his cache as  shrewd GM after the Rodgers debacle and is now though of around the league as a chump to be taken advantage of.  He also likes to devalue trades by these pick for pick swaps, it will be a 5th rounder for Zach and a 6th rounder or something like that.

I'd like to see some sources for that thinking around the league. The folks in Seattle might have some thoughts about that as well.

[SoFlaJets]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's ridiculous that the Jets are going to have to pay some other team to take Zach it's the final indignity 

What's ridiculous Matt is that this team has had two complete QB busts drafted that high, in years so close together Sam Darnold and PoS Wilson-how can it be that a team can be either this unlucky or incompetent?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

it's not a conspiracy. Conspiracies involve secrets

all the facts here are common knowledge

That's my point Bit, you don't actually have facts.  

You have speculation.  Based on facts, sure (Neeleman is, in fact, Zach's uncle), but you connect various things without any facts or evidence to support those connections.  You speculate.  You conspiracy theorize.  You use all the dog-whistle words of that facts-not-needed mindset, like saying "it's all obvious and plain to see", lol.  

And as with most conspiracy theorists, you outright ignore any facts that counter your belief.  

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

we can quibble over the details until the end of time

Not details, evidence, facts and rational arguments.  Or at a minimum, supported speculation with more that what you got so far.

I'll repeat myself, but there is an obvious and far simpler/normal/rational explanation of Zach.  JD made a bad pick, doubled down on it in year 2, and tried to replace it in year 3.  Happens all the time in the NFL.  No conspiracies required, just a bad GM making a bad pick and doing what GM's do when that happens.

But oddly it seems many want to excuse JD by blaming Woody for the worst moves.  A passive argument that JD is a good GM screwed by bad ownership, which, sorry, I'm not buying given the full scope of evidence to the contrary.  

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

look at Zach on the stage on draft night 

he looks out of place because he was out of place. 

He nepo-failed his way to the top of the draft. However you want to put it maybe Woody just likes Zach on a personal level because they are both useless. Maybe his family connects were as you maintain completely irrelevant to his NFL career

Bottom line this dude was overdrafted based on who he knew not what he was as a prospect

JD made a bad pick, in a world-altering pandemic year.  Pretty simple really.

I think you forget that after Lawrence, there were no consensus about who was next, and Wilson was viewed as the 2nd by several teams, not just us.  Teams, I will say again, that had no ties to Jet Blue, Zach's Family, or any other conspiracy theory.  

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

he didn't run he didn't lift he didn't test in any meaningful way to justify the pick. He had no signature wins, no Senior Bowl practices, nothing to make anyone (except the Jets) think he was this good of a draft pick

So why did the 49'ers, a well run franchise, want him as was widely reported?  Fake news?  

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the idea that other teams were interested was pure smoke from Team WIlson trying to go to a better franchise or maybe it was group think tied to the Jets taking him - but Wilson knew Woody was locked in at 2 from January, hence all the leaks 

Yup, fake news.  We're at the fake news point, lol.

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the whole thing was a disaster from top to bottom if you want to believe the Jets just got unlucky fine - that's hanlon's razor and that's certainly one way to think about it 

I don't think luck had anything to do with it Bit.

I think a bad GM (JD) during a difficult scouting time (COVID Pandemic) made a bad pick.

As did, I will remind you, a huge portion of this forum/fanbase, none of whom were compensated by Jet Blue for that belief.

I think like many GM's he tried to salvage that pick in year 2.  

And when that failed I think he tried his damndest to fix that mistake by going after a win-now A. Rodgers.

This is commonplace in the NFL.  And doesn't require an unprecedented move by an NFL Owner to torpedo his only meaningful asset (or, as some like to argue, not care about it all because richman bad!) for multiple years all for some amorphous gain no one can identify for a friend, an pre-existing ad campaign for a local hub'ed airline, vague dark political motives, and what else?  

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

either way the franchise screwed up this pick so badly and once the Rodgers effect is accounted for they are going to be digging out from under the zach mistake for the better part of a decade

Absolutely right, which is why the true architect of this team today, JD, should be fired.

Not later, but now.  Along with Saleh.  And Rodgers.

But it won't happen, primarily because of the COST of doing so.  In both back breaking cap ramifications and because of dollars out the door.

Not because of Jet Blue.  Zach will likely be cut or traded, and not one dollar more or less will change re: the Jets and Jet Blue.  

[Matt39]

Didn’t Zach give all of his linemen Jetblue plane tix on the arm of his uncle? lol. Nothing there, where are the FACTS.

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Didn’t Zach give all of his linemen Jetblue plane tix on the arm of his uncle? lol. Nothing there, where are the FACTS.

Do you think a #2 overall pick can't afford a few plane tickets?

Perfect example of taking a fact (Zach buying his guys tickets, which I'll take at your word is true) and without any evidence converting that into part of the conspiracy.

Because Zach, and his $22.9 million signing bonus, couldn't afford a few thousand in plane tickets.  Or wouldn't be expected to use his Uncle's old airline and Jets advertising partner (since his uncled new airlines don't serve NYC much), lol. 

Nope, all it takes to bribe an NFL Owner for years of failure is a QB buying a few thousand dollars of plane tickets for his Olinemen, lol.

It's amazing to me how little you or Bit want to hold JD accountable.

Or how you can explain why JD, if your theory was true, wasn't leaking all over the media that he was forced by Woody to pick Zach, lol.  Which any rational person, in the era of unnamed sources, would be doing if the Woody-forced-Zach-on-JD theory was true the way the lay it out.

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do you think a #2 overall pick can't afford a few plane tickets?

Perfect example of taking a fact (Zach buying his guys tickets, which I'll take at your word is true) and without any evidence converting that into part of the conspiracy.

Because Zach, and his $22.9 million signing bonus, couldn't afford a few thousand in plane tickets.  Or wouldn't be expected to use his Uncle's old airline and Jets advertising partner (since his uncled new airlines don't serve NYC much), lol. 

Nope, all it takes to bribe an NFL Owner for years of failure is a QB buying a few thousand dollars of plane tickets for his Olinemen, lol.

It's amazing to me how little you or Bit want to hold JD accountable.

Or how you can explain why JD, if your theory was true, wasn't leaking all over the media that he was forced by Woody to pick Zach, lol.  Which any rational person, in the era of unnamed sources, would be doing if the Woody-forced-Zach-on-JD theory was true the way the lay it out.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10023832-zach-wilson-buys-jets-ol-roundtrip-plane-tickets-as-thank-you-for-efforts-this-season.amp.html

His uncle literally chartered a JetBlue airbus lol. not some gulf stream an actual JB plane. Zach wasn’t paying for anything. 
 

im not holding Douglas accountable because he’s an afterthought. He doesn’t have any influence in the organization . He’s extra luggage filling a role and putting together a draft board once a year. You don’t think he would have preferred for Wilson to stick around during bye weeks?

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those same people will be blaming JD for not getting more for him.

Just a couple days ago @TuscanyTile2 suggested that teams might get into a “bidding war” over him.  Lmao.

Only the smart teams.

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

im not holding Douglas accountable

The key words, IMO.

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The key words, IMO.

Accountable for what though? He’s in year 6 and we can count on two hands the amount of times hes spoken to the media. He’s a body filling a spot. He wasn’t the one protecting Zach from having to answer to the media, or having to show some accountability. Compared to other picks, his had special treatment, take JJ and McDonald for example. Saleh told both of them what the offseason expectations of them were- JJ answered the bell and McDonald is staying in Jersey to do the same. We never heard this about Wilson. Douglas doesn’t have the power to offer this type of cover. 

[Fantasy Island]

9 hours ago, GreenFish said:

I could see him going for a 5th.

I previously thought a 4th.

Basically, something in day 3 at best.

A 5th of the bottom shelf stuff.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Accountable for what though?

His job as the Jets GM.

But you don't think he has a job, you just said he's a powerless clipboard holder, so...yeah. 

[doitny]

5 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

The Jets are better off keeping him as their 3rd QB and let him sign as FA elsewhere and get the comp pick it will be better then what he is currently worth.

Jets will be in cap hell after next season and I highly doubt they will be making big signings after the 2024 season.

if Zach stays he will find a way to start. 

Rodgers will get a splinter in his throwing hand and miss a game. his backups wife will go into labor the night before and Zach will be starting the game. 

oh and it will be an important game we cant afford to lose.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

JD made a bad pick, in a world-altering pandemic year.  Pretty simple really.

Everyone knows ochams razor the simplest explanation is the real one 

In this case we both have fairly simple explanations. But Admittedly yours is simpler 

But you're also employing another heuristic called hanlons razor which states don't attribute something to malice when it can be explained by stupidity 

Hanlon was the hotter razor than ochams in the early 20th century 

But now we never hear about it. Why? Because in the 40s and 50s it was used to hide the mafia. People who wanted to hide the existence of organized crime cited hanlons razor as "proof" it never existed 

What this really comes down to Warfish is how the world works. It's guys like woody doing favors for their friends nephews 

That's the way the world works 

Maybe you need to believe in a meritocracy or when that fails it's just stupidity. I don't know if why you refuse to entertain that jetblue being a massive sponsor had anything to do with the Zach pick 

But end of the day it's not a conspiracy there are no secrets here. Zach wilson was overdrafted because woody wanted this player. For whatever reason. I think we can agree there. Woody was not kept in the dark on this pick. Jd was either ordered to do it or knew he could sell it to woody but either way woody wanted this player 

Just like he wanted farve, Tebow and Rodgers. Qb 1 is an ownership level decision in every franchise in the league 

There's no world where Saleh says keep darnold and woody listens to that 

Maybe we can't agree on anything 

Except that jd absolutely should be fired by now we agree there 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

What this really comes down to Warfish is how the world works. It's guys like woody doing favors for their friends nephews 

That's the way the world works 

If so, then surely you have another similar example from NFL history....right?

If that's how the world really works, surely Zach Wilson and Woody aren't unique, are they?

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

I don't know if why you refuse to entertain that jetblue being a massive sponsor had anything to do with the Zach pick

Because there is simply no evidence of it.

What there is, is evidence our sub-par GM made a bad pick in a tough scouting situation.  

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

But end of the day it's not a conspiracy there are no secrets here. Zach wilson was overdrafted because woody wanted this player. For whatever reason. I think we can agree there. Woody was not kept in the dark on this pick. Jd was either ordered to do it or knew he could sell it to woody but either way woody wanted this player 

Just like he wanted farve, Tebow and Rodgers. Qb 1 is an ownership level decision in every franchise in the league 

There's no world where Saleh says keep darnold and woody listens to that

It's funny to me, having lived here in a city with an Owner who did, in fact, control everything, that you think Woody is a functional equivalent (organizationally/managerially) to Dan Snyder.  The idea makes me laugh quite a bit.

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Maybe we can't agree on anything 

Except that jd absolutely should be fired by now we agree there 

Oh, we agree on plenty old friend.  Just not the Woody/JetBlue/Neeleman Conspiracy, that's all.

[Rangers9]

The Eagles traded for Gardner Minshew for only a conditional 6th round pick in 2021. And he's a lot better than Zach. So value of backup QBs isn't high so you'd expect Zach to command a conditional something or other like a 6th or 7th or maybe a switch of picks in a later round.